What do you want for third expansion? - [Merged]

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

You can PvP in Grothmar during the demolition event, or on Bjora if Drakkar fails. Tarir map also has a PvP pre-event. Guess those open world maps don‘t count as PvE anymore, since they involve PvP /shrug

Since when do exceptions decide the norm? Those 3 situations you're describing literally last a few minutes or less, are located in a small location on each map and tied to events. Moreover, they do not define the map in the slightest. So yes, those maps are PvE, not PvP.

By your reasoning WvW is more PvE than PvE is PvP, because of all the camps/keeps/land claiming you can do, which don't have to involve any enemy players. Yet I've never heard anyone claim that WvW is actually more PvE.

As far as your rebuttal goes, it's grasping at straws. Raids and Fractals are PvE. It's fine that people define open world as PvE only and not instanced content, but that doesn't mean they're right.

[Tails.9372]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"basil.9532" said:Can we possibly get a Celestial Legendary Armor that is 100% PVE without forcing people into raids, WVW, PVP, Fractals etc?If raids and fractals are not PvE then what counts?You're missing the point, he never said "they shouldn't count" or that they don't count as PvE but that it shouldn't require players to do specific sub content just like the WvW set doesn't require you to lead a squad and capture a castle or to "kill 100.000 enemy players".

[Raknar.4735]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

You can PvP in Grothmar during the demolition event, or on Bjora if Drakkar fails. Tarir map also has a PvP pre-event. Guess those open world maps don‘t count as PvE anymore, since they involve PvP /shrug

Since when do exceptions decide the norm? Those 3 situations you're describing literally last a few minutes or less, are located in a small location on each map and tied to events. Moreover, they do not define the map in the slightest. So yes, those maps are PvE, not PvP.

By your reasoning WvW is more PvE than PvE is PvP, because of all the camps/keeps/land claiming you can do, which don't have to involve any enemy players. Yet I've never heard anyone claim that WvW is actually more PvE.

As far as your rebuttal goes, it's grasping at straws. Raids and Fractals are PvE. It's fine that people define open world as PvE only and not instanced content, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Not a rebuttal, just using your definition. It is content which involves fighting other players, so by your definition it isn‘t PvE. It doesn‘t matter if you don’t agree, those are facts ;)

And it‘s not my reasoning, just using your definition. I would not call WvW, is is a PvP gamemode! which is ultimately called WvW.

I‘m not grasping at straws, just using your own definition of „content that doesn‘t fighting other players“, like I‘ve said.

Just as Raids, Dungeons/Fracs and OW are PvE, WvW and SPvP are PvP. Yet they still can be inherently different modes.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@"Turamarth.3248" said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

You can PvP in Grothmar during the demolition event, or on Bjora if Drakkar fails. Tarir map also has a PvP pre-event. Guess those open world maps don‘t count as PvE anymore, since they involve PvP /shrug

Since when do exceptions decide the norm? Those 3 situations you're describing literally last a few minutes or less, are located in a small location on each map and tied to events. Moreover, they do not define the map in the slightest. So yes, those maps are PvE, not PvP.

By your reasoning WvW is more PvE than PvE is PvP, because of all the camps/keeps/land claiming you can do, which don't have to involve any enemy players. Yet I've never heard anyone claim that WvW is actually more PvE.

As far as your rebuttal goes, it's grasping at straws. Raids and Fractals are PvE. It's fine that people define open world as PvE only and not instanced content, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Not a rebuttal, just using your definition. It is content which involves fighting other players, so by your definition it isn‘t PvE. It doesn‘t matter if you don’t agree, those are facts ;)

And it‘s not my reasoning, just using your definition. I would not call WvW, is is a PvP gamemode! which is ultimately called WvW.

I‘m not grasping at straws, just using your own definition of „content that doesn‘t fighting other players“, like I‘ve said.

Just as Raids, Dungeons/Fracs and OW are PvE, WvW and SPvP are PvP. Yet they still can be inherently different modes.

It seems you've never heard of "the exception confirms the rule". Those 3 examples constitute about 0.00001% of everything you can do in PvE. You aren't using my definition. You're twisting it to serve your argument, which is still as flawed as the first time you expressed it, regardless of the wit with which you present it. ;)

[Raknar.4735]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@"Turamarth.3248" said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

You can PvP in Grothmar during the demolition event, or on Bjora if Drakkar fails. Tarir map also has a PvP pre-event. Guess those open world maps don‘t count as PvE anymore, since they involve PvP /shrug

Since when do exceptions decide the norm? Those 3 situations you're describing literally last a few minutes or less, are located in a small location on each map and tied to events. Moreover, they do not define the map in the slightest. So yes, those maps are PvE, not PvP.

By your reasoning WvW is more PvE than PvE is PvP, because of all the camps/keeps/land claiming you can do, which don't have to involve any enemy players. Yet I've never heard anyone claim that WvW is actually more PvE.

As far as your rebuttal goes, it's grasping at straws. Raids and Fractals are PvE. It's fine that people define open world as PvE only and not instanced content, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Not a rebuttal, just using your definition. It is content which involves fighting other players, so by your definition it isn‘t PvE. It doesn‘t matter if you don’t agree, those are facts ;)

And it‘s not my reasoning, just using your definition. I would not call WvW, is is a PvP gamemode! which is ultimately called WvW.

I‘m not grasping at straws, just using your own definition of „content that doesn‘t fighting other players“, like I‘ve said.

Just as Raids, Dungeons/Fracs and OW are PvE, WvW and SPvP are PvP. Yet they still can be inherently different modes.

It seems you've never heard of "the exception confirms the rule". Those 3 examples constitute about 0.00001% of everything you can do in PvE. You aren't using my definition. You're twisting it to serve your argument, which is still as flawed as the first time you expressed it, regardless of the wit with which you present it. ;)

I'm quite literally using your definition. You stated that definition. It doesn't matter if you call them exceptions, they still exist, and using your definition, that content isn't PvE.I'll just quote you ;)

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players.

Also suitable:

Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

Edit: You could always change your definition into "PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other player, unless I call it an exception", but that would make it pretty subjective and not a fact ;)

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@"Turamarth.3248" said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

You can PvP in Grothmar during the demolition event, or on Bjora if Drakkar fails. Tarir map also has a PvP pre-event. Guess those open world maps don‘t count as PvE anymore, since they involve PvP /shrug

Since when do exceptions decide the norm? Those 3 situations you're describing literally last a few minutes or less, are located in a small location on each map and tied to events. Moreover, they do not define the map in the slightest. So yes, those maps are PvE, not PvP.

By your reasoning WvW is more PvE than PvE is PvP, because of all the camps/keeps/land claiming you can do, which don't have to involve any enemy players. Yet I've never heard anyone claim that WvW is actually more PvE.

As far as your rebuttal goes, it's grasping at straws. Raids and Fractals are PvE. It's fine that people define open world as PvE only and not instanced content, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Not a rebuttal, just using your definition. It is content which involves fighting other players, so by your definition it isn‘t PvE. It doesn‘t matter if you don’t agree, those are facts ;)

And it‘s not my reasoning, just using your definition. I would not call WvW, is is a PvP gamemode! which is ultimately called WvW.

I‘m not grasping at straws, just using your own definition of „content that doesn‘t fighting other players“, like I‘ve said.

Just as Raids, Dungeons/Fracs and OW are PvE, WvW and SPvP are PvP. Yet they still can be inherently different modes.

It seems you've never heard of "the exception confirms the rule". Those 3 examples constitute about 0.00001% of everything you can do in PvE. You aren't using my definition. You're twisting it to serve your argument, which is still as flawed as the first time you expressed it, regardless of the wit with which you present it. ;)

I'm quite literally using your definition. You stated that definition. It doesn't matter if you call them exceptions, they still exist, and using your definition, that content isn't PvE.I'll just quote you ;)

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players.

Also suitable:

Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

Edit: You could always change your definition into "PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other player,

unless I call it an exception

", but that would make it pretty subjective and not a fact ;)

Okay, so you don't get the saying "the exception confirms the rule". Got it.

[Raknar.4735]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@"Turamarth.3248" said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

You can PvP in Grothmar during the demolition event, or on Bjora if Drakkar fails. Tarir map also has a PvP pre-event. Guess those open world maps don‘t count as PvE anymore, since they involve PvP /shrug

Since when do exceptions decide the norm? Those 3 situations you're describing literally last a few minutes or less, are located in a small location on each map and tied to events. Moreover, they do not define the map in the slightest. So yes, those maps are PvE, not PvP.

By your reasoning WvW is more PvE than PvE is PvP, because of all the camps/keeps/land claiming you can do, which don't have to involve any enemy players. Yet I've never heard anyone claim that WvW is actually more PvE.

As far as your rebuttal goes, it's grasping at straws. Raids and Fractals are PvE. It's fine that people define open world as PvE only and not instanced content, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Not a rebuttal, just using your definition. It is content which involves fighting other players, so by your definition it isn‘t PvE. It doesn‘t matter if you don’t agree, those are facts ;)

And it‘s not my reasoning, just using your definition. I would not call WvW, is is a PvP gamemode! which is ultimately called WvW.

I‘m not grasping at straws, just using your own definition of „content that doesn‘t fighting other players“, like I‘ve said.

Just as Raids, Dungeons/Fracs and OW are PvE, WvW and SPvP are PvP. Yet they still can be inherently different modes.

It seems you've never heard of "the exception confirms the rule". Those 3 examples constitute about 0.00001% of everything you can do in PvE. You aren't using my definition. You're twisting it to serve your argument, which is still as flawed as the first time you expressed it, regardless of the wit with which you present it. ;)

I'm quite literally using your definition. You stated that definition. It doesn't matter if you call them exceptions, they still exist, and using your definition, that content isn't PvE.I'll just quote you ;)

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players.

Also suitable:

Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

Edit: You could always change your definition into "PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other player,

unless I call it an exception

", but that would make it pretty subjective and not a fact ;)

Okay, so you don't get the saying "the exception confirms the rule". Got it.

Sorry that I'm just applying your own definition, even though it doesn't always fit.It's just strange that you were talking about "facts", when you actually mean "rules" defined by you. I've never seen an exception confirm a fact, since that would mean it isn't really factual ;)

[Infusion.7149]

@"basil.9532" said:I just feel that very few people can actually jump into raids or t4 fractals.I think it would be pretty cool once Cantha releases to say, tie every world boss or something into making the armor or something.Maybe even making it map currency related but required like 1,000 currency of each of the new maps per piece etc.There are many avenues you could run with that don't involve restrictive content.

You could WVW or PVP only for armor and those armors are the easiest to get imo.But raids? I've tried to get into raids before. Many times. Most people who do them are trolls, elitist jerks and would rather mock you than assist or teach the raids.They are heavily time restricted because guilds usually run raids on a set schedule so then their is that issue as well.Where as in PVP and WVW you can just jump in and cruise, do as you wish and over time earn what you need to craft your armor.Perhaps even add a time consuming repeatable achievement around the Luxon and Kurzick that nets you an item that you need 6 of to craft the full set.Just throwing random ideas out there. You don't have to force people who like only PvE to play the hardest content in the game to get PvE legendary while WvW and PvP is easier to get. I've literally been forced to make the decision to play a game mode I can't stand just to get legendary armor.Besides, the old celestial skins revamped could probably look so nice if done right and as armor.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gallery_of_Celestial_weaponsAre you going off feeling or have you actually tried?

T4 fractals are quite accessible if you have the right gear and AR: just finishing T3 level of fractals should allow for enough familiarity to do T4. Ideally you want to be running builds similar to what discretize.eu has but the DPS slot is rather flexible and you can get by without alacrity most of the time. Quickness is a crutch but without it the T4 fractals are still doable if people are actually trying to do high damage. The only thing that is really different from T1-T3 is people run fractal potions.

WVW legendary armor is a far larger time investment than either PVE or PVP. Anyone that has actually made it knows this.

[basil.9532]

@Infusion.7149 said:

Are you going off feeling or have you actually tried?

T4 fractals are quite accessible if you have the right gear and AR: just finishing T3 level of fractals should allow for enough familiarity to do T4. Ideally you want to be running builds similar to what discretize.eu has but the DPS slot is rather flexible and you can get by without alacrity most of the time. Quickness is a crutch but without it the T4 fractals are still doable if people are actually trying to do high damage. The only thing that is really different from T1-T3 is people run fractal potions.

WVW legendary armor is a far larger time investment than either PVE or PVP. Anyone that has actually made it knows this.

I can do t4 fractals and I have 167AR...I never said I couldn't.I also never argued that time was the issue...

[sorudo.9054]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

in both raids and fractals have fights vs other players, it's hard enough to even get into a group without a fight starting.open world PvE however has practically no fights whatsoever VS players.that, like it or not, is the fact.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

in both raids and fractals have fights vs other players, it's hard enough to even get into a group without a fight starting.open world PvE however has practically no fights whatsoever VS players.that, like it or not, is the fact.

You know very well that's not what is talked about here. We're talking about game modes, not the behavior of other people. I get your point, but it's beside the point of this thread.

[sorudo.9054]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.

in both raids and fractals have fights vs other players, it's hard enough to even get into a group without a fight starting.open world PvE however has practically no fights whatsoever VS players.that, like it or not, is the fact.

You know very well that's not what is talked about here. We're talking about game modes, not the behavior of other people. I get your point, but it's beside the point of this thread.

your point is also beside the point of this threat yet you keep at it. ;)

[maddoctor.2738]

@"basil.9532" said:Can we possibly get a Celestial Legendary Armor that is 100% PVE without forcing people into raids, WVW, PVP, Fractals etc?Bringing back the celestial skins in an ascended weapon chest would be really sick.Also I know that several people including myself have been begging for Cantha since the beginning, but we've also been hoping that the Tengu may one day become playable.

Just some random distant future suggestions to consider. :P

If they make a legendary armor set that can be acquired exclusively by playing Raids/Fractals/WVW and/or PVP without "forcing" players into general PVE then maybe. Even the Raid Legendary Armor has too much general PVE attached to it. Also, a Gen 3 Legendary weapon set that is acquired by any of the above without "forcing" players into the rest of PVE would also be nice.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Well if that's the case, then they need to add a Legendary Armor that is acquired from Raids that doesn't require any other PVE because the current version requires too much non-Raid content. And add a Fractal Legendary Armor with the same set of requirements (acquired in... Fractals)

[Raknar.4735]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Well if that's the case, then they need to add a Legendary Armor that is acquired from Raids that doesn't require any other PVE because the current version requires too much non-Raid content. And add a Fractal Legendary Armor with the same set of requirements (acquired in... Fractals)

Sounds good to me!They can then add one for Strike Missions, one for Story, one for Adventures, one for JPs and so on.

[Adenin.5973]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@"Turamarth.3248" said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Well if that's the case, then they need to add a Legendary Armor that is acquired from Raids that doesn't require any other PVE because the current version requires too much non-Raid content. And add a Fractal Legendary Armor with the same set of requirements (acquired in... Fractals)

Your argument makes no sense that raiders could not do normal PvE content, while it makes perfect sense that most PvE players will never be able (for whatever reason) to complete the raid requirements to make legendary armor.

The fact is that there is no legendary armor for people that do the majority of the content that GW2 offers and what is also its most popular (and I am also arguing therefore, apparently the most fun) PvE content. I am talking about open world content and to a lesser extent fractals or even dungeons.

And saying that raids and open world are all just "PvE" is like saying that a formula1 race and someone that drives to work is just both about "driving a car". Which is obviously not a practical statement to make, which is why no one seriously says stuff like that in real life. "PvE" i waaaay to broad of a term to use when talking about raids vs everything else in GW2.

[Astralporing.1957]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Except it is. PvE is Player versus Environment, i.e. content which doesn't involve fighting other players. So yes. Fractals and Raids are PvE, just as much as open world. Facts don't care whether you agree with them or not.Yes, it is. In the same vein as WvW, while distinct, is still PvP.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:Raids and Fractals are not PVE to you?

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Well if that's the case, then they need to add a Legendary Armor that is acquired from Raids that doesn't require any other PVE because the current version requires too much non-Raid content. And add a Fractal Legendary Armor with the same set of requirements (acquired in... Fractals)That is actually a very reasonable suggestion. For legendary armor, for example, Gifts of Craftmanship and Dedication

could

possibly use some content-specific alternatives, similarily as the 2nd gen weapons have their HoT and PoF alternatives already

[Tails.9372]

@maddoctor.2738 said:If they make a legendary armor set that can be acquired exclusively by playing Raids/Fractals/WVW and/or PVP without "forcing" players into general PVE then maybe.The WvW set doesn't force you into PvE except for throwing cash at some vendors. Same goes for the sPvP set iirc.

@maddoctor.2738 said:Even the Raid Legendary Armor has too much general PVE attached to it.Ikr, that's why I look at it more as a HoT leg set but as of right now the game doesn't have a leg set representative for PvE as a whole with a model based on general partition like e.g. WvW has.

@maddoctor.2738 said:they need to add a Legendary Armor that is acquired from Raids that doesn't require any other PVE because the current version requires too much non-Raid content. And add a Fractal Legendary Armor with the same set of requirements (acquired in... Fractals)They don't need to but it serves the purpose so they should, same for a "-> asc -> leg" upgrade of the runic set for SMs. I do think that A-Net should add a general PvE leg set before adding more sub content specific ones tho.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Adenin.5973" said:

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Your argument makes no sense that raiders could not do normal PvE content, while it makes perfect sense that most PvE players will never be able (for whatever reason) to complete the raid requirements to make legendary armor.

My argument makes no sense? I'm not the one saying that PVE and Raids are separate modes. Actually it does make sense for a Raider to not want to do the kind of farming required in PVE to craft the Legendary Armor.

And saying that raids and open world are all just "PvE" is like saying that a formula1 race and someone that drives to work is just both about "driving a car". Which is obviously not a practical statement to make, which is why no one seriously says stuff like that in real life. "PvE" i waaaay to broad of a term to use when talking about raids vs everything else in GW2.

If PVE and Raids are separate modes then Raids need their own Legendary armor, just like PVP has one.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Raknar.4735" said:They can then add one for Strike Missions, one for Story, one for Adventures, one for JPs and so on.

I wouldn't go as far as adding one in Story, as everyone would have one, destroying any value of the others and even Ascended gear, or Adventures and JPs as they are both rather dead content. But Strike Missions once they mature enough could get one, provided the older/mature "content" gets one first. And by that I mostly mean Fractals at this point, maybe when they "reboot" them.

@Astralporing.1957 said:That is actually a very reasonable suggestion. For legendary armor, for example, Gifts of Craftmanship and Dedication could possibly use some content-specific alternatives, similarily as the 2nd gen weapons have their HoT and PoF alternatives already

And then extend that same idea on Gen1/Gen2 Legendary Weapons (or create a Gen3 set with that idea)

[Tails.9372]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:And then extend that same idea on Gen1/Gen2 Legendary Weapons (or create a Gen3 set with that idea)"Legendary Sublime Mistforged Hero Weapons" sounds good to me.

[Adenin.5973]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Adenin.5973" said:

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Your argument makes no sense that raiders could not do normal PvE content, while it makes perfect sense that most PvE players will never be able (for whatever reason) to complete the raid requirements to make legendary armor.

My argument makes no sense? I'm not the one saying that PVE and Raids are separate modes. Actually it does make sense for a Raider to not want to do the kind of farming required in PVE to craft the Legendary Armor.

And saying that raids and open world are all just "PvE" is like saying that a formula1 race and someone that drives to work is just both about "driving a car". Which is obviously not a practical statement to make, which is why no one seriously says stuff like that in real life. "PvE" i waaaay to broad of a term to use when talking about raids vs everything else in GW2.

If PVE and Raids are separate modes then Raids need their own Legendary armor, just like PVP has one.

I don't think you understand the argument. The argument is not about whether different "modes" are in need of exclusive items that only require you to play that mode. The argument is about accessibility of those items to the general playerbase.

The Raiders that raid enough to get legendary armor are mabye 2-5% of the playerbase, the hardcore WvW/PvP players are also a minority. And most people will leave the game before they would spend hundreds of hours doing that type of content (or in the case of raids rather "trying" to do it), just to get some armor skin.That means that whatever you are gating behind such niche content is not accessible for the majority of players.

Open world content, normal fractals/dungeons or other collections in open world content are the most accessible content, since there is no barrier of entry or any other requirement whatosever, other than the having bought the game and needing to spend time to play it.

We do not have any accessible legendary armor for the majority of players that play this content and the only way to introduce one is by introducing it for this open world content.

Making raid legendary armor no longer requiring any other game mode on the other hand won't make that legendary armor any more accessible than it is right now, which begs the question why you would want to change anything about how it's aquired to begin with.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@Adenin.5973 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:

Raids to PvE is about as comparable as PvP to WvW. Not very.

Your argument makes no sense that raiders could not do normal PvE content, while it makes perfect sense that most PvE players will never be able (for whatever reason) to complete the raid requirements to make legendary armor.

My argument makes no sense? I'm not the one saying that PVE and Raids are separate modes. Actually it does make sense for a Raider to not want to do the kind of farming required in PVE to craft the Legendary Armor.

And saying that raids and open world are all just "PvE" is like saying that a formula1 race and someone that drives to work is just both about "driving a car". Which is obviously not a practical statement to make, which is why no one seriously says stuff like that in real life. "PvE" i waaaay to broad of a term to use when talking about raids vs everything else in GW2.

If PVE and Raids are separate modes then Raids need their own Legendary armor, just like PVP has one.

I don't think you understand the argument. The argument is not about whether different "modes" are in need of exclusive items that only require you to play that mode. The argument is about accessibility of those items to the general playerbase.

The Raiders that raid enough to get legendary armor are mabye 2-5% of the playerbase, the hardcore WvW/PvP players are also a minority. And most people will leave the game before they would spend hundreds of hours doing that type of content (or in the case of raids rather "trying" to do it), just to get some armor skin.That means that whatever you are gating behind such niche content is not accessible for the majority of players.

Open world content, normal fractals/dungeons or other collections in open world content are the most accessible content, since there is no barrier of entry or any other requirement whatosever, other than the having bought the game and needing to spend time to play it.

We do not have any accessible legendary armor for the majority of players that play this content and the only way to introduce one is by introducing it for this open world content.

Making raid legendary armor no longer requiring any other game mode on the other hand won't make that legendary armor any more accessible than it is right now, which begs the question why you would want to change anything about how it's aquired to begin with.

Just adding my personal testament to this and am in no way agreeing with either point. As a 99.99% WvW exclusive player, I do very little, if any, PvE. It makes me so sick I can barely stomach it anymore. Just to give you an idea, I’ve finished maaaaaybe 2 of the LS episodes since PoF expac drop. I won’t even attempt a Raid because I’m so far out of the PvE mindset that I imagine I’d be kicked out of the squad fairly quickly, and would feel like a detriment to the team.

[Raknar.4735]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:They can then add one for Strike Missions, one for Story, one for Adventures, one for JPs and so on.

I wouldn't go as far as adding one in Story, as everyone would have one, destroying any value of the others and even Ascended gear, or Adventures and JPs as they are both rather dead content. But Strike Missions once they mature enough could get one, provided the older/mature "content" gets one first. And by that I mostly mean Fractals at this point, maybe when they "reboot" them.

I wouldn‘t consider JPs and Adventures dead content, the last 4 adventures we got are in Grothmar, same for the last JP in the same map, part of the current Icebrood Saga! (Some would call the Light Puzzles in Bjora JPs. And more and more adventures are getting added to the seasonal festivals, how about a festive legendary armor! They are a big part of GW2)Compared to that both Raids and Fractals (even though one Fractal is in developement) are „deader“ ;)

It would make sense that story/ open world get legendary armor with Cantha, after all Anet is designing a whole new System for them and Story + Open World are the most developed endgame content. It would be a shame if that system would fall flat for most only because some people are still seeing some „prestige“ value in the functionality of legendary armor. The skins will still be there and hold on to any prestige you interpret into the set.

Edit: I don't see them going back to retroactively add legendary armors to old content again, that includes Fractals the old JPs and the old Adventures. It should be part of content that is being developed!

[Tails.9372]

@Raknar.4735 said:I don't see them going back to retroactively add legendary armors to old content again, that includes Fractals the old JPs and the old Adventures. It should be part of content that is being developed!Not really, for a legendary PvE set they can easily add a WvW style reward system based on event participation to PvE. This would pretty much cover the entirety of PvE. No need to exclude old content for a general PvE set.