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Please stop asking LI for strike missions


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Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.

It's damaging for both party.

It's either gonna continue to split the community in two between those who can do "harder" strike missions and those who can do "easier" strike missions, and as we saw with both fractals and raids, that content is just gonna be non-existent in the long run.

So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI. If you also know what you're doing as a commander there is no scenario in which you can't adapt to the situation, a good team comp should make up for whatever group you have. And low damage just means you won't get gold at the end of the strike.

I can understand the frustration of how much time it might take if you don't ask for LI but, if you value your time then just go with a group full of guildies.

The latest that just got released on Tuesday with the new episode is another "easy mode" strike, and if this continue strike are gonna go back to shiver peak level.

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@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.

I never said I wanna play with cool kids, I said I wanna play with raiders when I lfg.

And I dont care about raids being abandoned. Gw2 is supposed to be easy.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.Why judge people for who they want to play with?

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.

Blaming the symptom and not the root cause. The reason this rift exists is because there's such a high jump in difficulty that the game does not prepare you for so effectively, when people get to the end of the story/open world, they might as well be braindead. There are plenty of resources provided by the community to help bridge this gap but still requires the player to take initiative outside of the game to practice and learn. If the 10x performance gap didn't exist, requirements would not be nearly as strict.

Conversely, casual strikers would likely not accept level 70 characters into their squad and the gap between level 70 open worlder to level 80 open worlder performance is far less than open worlder to raider performance.

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@"tim.4596" said:Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.

It's damaging for both party.

It's either gonna continue to split the community in two between those who can do "harder" strike missions and those who can do "easier" strike missions, and as we saw with both fractals and raids, that content is just gonna be non-existent in the long run.

So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI. If you also know what you're doing as a commander there is no scenario in which you can't adapt to the situation, a good team comp should make up for whatever group you have. And low damage just means you won't get gold at the end of the strike.

I can understand the frustration of how much time it might take if you don't ask for LI but, if you value your time then just go with a group full of guildies.

The latest that just got released on Tuesday with the new episode is another "easy mode" strike, and if this continue strike are gonna go back to shiver peak level.

This feels like you're asking people directly to have less fun so others can have more fun. I also don't understand the part in bold. Doing something with a guild is not really different from asking for and setting requirements. Either way you're looking to play with a group of like minded people so you can all have what they, as a group, could consider fun.

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It's quite different, he's arguing how he has the right to create whatever lfg he wants and I am saying that it is damaging to the community.

Don't get me wrong, I am not whining about strike being too difficult, I am saying strikes are way too easy as they now stand (that includes Boneskinner and Woj). And that asking for li requirements is pointless when you could just explain the strat to your group, or rather reconfirm it if you see that it's a fiesta. Boneskinner explanation is literally stick together and dodge left.

I have around 2k li and do weekly clear almost every week. I am not affected by li requirements , however strikes were getting harder up to the point of WoJ and Boneskinner buy are now getting easier. Forging steel is just long and annoying but is hardly difficult.

Also no matter how much li I ask strikes I've never seen a single pug group being able to skip the ball phase from Whisper of Jormag. So if people with li didn't feel so entitled it would solve a lot of issues.

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@tim.4596 said:Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.I agree. With li we also have some role-play players. I try ask only KP from 100CM fractal. Have 50+ ? welcome

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"tim.4596" said:Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.

It's damaging for both party.

It's either gonna continue to split the community in two between those who can do "harder" strike missions and those who can do "easier" strike missions, and as we saw with both fractals and raids, that content is just gonna be non-existent in the long run.

So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI. If you also know what you're doing as a commander there is no scenario in which you can't adapt to the situation, a good team comp should make up for whatever group you have. And low damage just means you won't get gold at the end of the strike.

I can understand the frustration of how much time it might take if you don't ask for LI but, if you value your time then just go with a group full of guildies.

The latest that just got released on Tuesday with the new episode is another "easy mode" strike, and if this continue strike are gonna go back to shiver peak level.

This feels like you're asking people directly to have less fun so others can have more fun. I also don't understand the part in bold. Doing something with a guild is not really different from asking for and setting requirements. Either way you're looking to play with a group of like minded people so you can all have what they, as a group, could consider fun.

This.

I'm sorry, but asking one group of players to intentionally put up with undesired stress or more time (all of our time is equally valuable depending on how you look at it) in favor of a different group of players seems stupid.

That's not to mention the problems that would arise, which are already present:Not asking for LI, then getting very weak players join a group of very experienced players, that's already bad enough as is. The insults and toxicity would just increase. Just look at sPvP.

I'd even argue that using LI/KP as filter even reduces the friction between different skilled players because it actively helps prevent to high skill gaps to be present in groups. Does that mean everyone who is experienced has to look or build groups with LI? No. If you are chill enough, have time and are willing to put up with less experienced players, go for it. Individually that is great. On a global and forced scale, no thank you.

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@tim.4596 said:It's quite different, he's arguing how he has the right to create whatever lfg he wants and I am saying that it is damaging to the community.

It is actually good for the community because by clearly stating requirements, groups set their own expectations. That way players of vastly different skill levels don't mix in the same team, reducing overall friction.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.That is however one of the premises for raids' existence in the first place, so you can;t really hope for raiders to just abandon this way of thinking. And especially not if it's extremely advantageous in the content, because it helps you to
not wipe
.

You won't change the people. The only thing that can be changed is content.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@tim.4596 said:It's quite different, he's arguing how he has the right to create whatever lfg he wants and I am saying that it is damaging to the community.

It is actually good for the community because by clearly stating requirements, groups set their own expectations. That way players of vastly different skill levels don't mix in the same team, reducing overall friction.That works only if all groups have the same chances of success (even if for some it will take longer). Once it's no longer the case, the friction gets even higher.

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I create full strike run everyday on lfg without asking LI even tho I have almost 2k now. I never had problems with clearing it, yes there are some people who have no idea or do 2-3k dps die here and there, but thats just fine, tolerate them or help them by giving advice or sharing your builds. If we dont tolerate newbies and kick them rightaway it will ruin their motivation and after that we will cry that no strikes are being released because no one is doing them. Funny thing is whenever I join a party asking for LI, ironically they fail more or someone leaves the party after a specific boss. Strikes are easy, just create your own squad know what roles are needed and do it. Dont know the boss mechanics? Just watch a video, it takes 2 minutes.

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@"Astralporing.1957" said:That works only if all groups have the same chances of success (even if for some it will take longer). Once it's no longer the case, the friction gets even higher.

In-game friction is mostly removed if groups set their own requirements, aside from those rare snowflakes that enter groups they don't belong to by faking the requirements. Or the other special snowflakes that join groups without requirements and hijack them. But special snowflakes aside, having requirements leads to less friction than without having any requirements, as someone said once: "if you don't post requirements, you don't have expectations", which could cause way more friction in the end.

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@Alyster.9470 said:I create full strike run everyday on lfg without asking LI even tho I have almost 2k now. I never had problems with clearing it, yes there are some people who have no idea or do 2-3k dps die here and there, but thats just fine, tolerate them or help them by giving advice or sharing your builds. If we dont tolerate newbies and kick them rightaway it will ruin their motivation and after that we will cry that no strikes are being released because no one is doing them. Funny thing is whenever I join a party asking for LI, ironically they fail more or someone leaves the party after a specific boss. Strikes are easy, just create your own squad know what roles are needed and do it. Dont know the boss mechanics? Just watch a video, it takes 2 minutes.

What the game needs is community building. That way newbies won't need to be tolerated by other random players, they'd have a group already, their guild for example to play and enjoy Strike Missions (and all other content). It's why I always wonder when I join a squad or a party for any type of content, all these players from different guilds, what's stopping them from playing with their guilds/communities instead of joining random teams? Strike Missions should be seen by Guilds as a type of Guild Missions, an excellent opportunity for Guild Members to get together and tackle content as a team.

Teach a guild newbie how to do Strike Missions and next time they won't be a newbie, teach a random newbie how to do Strike Missions and next time you'll need to train the next random newbie. Once pug life is lessened all the friction and the requirements talk will disappear.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.That is however one of the premises for raids' existence in the first place, so you can;t really hope for raiders to just abandon this way of thinking. And especially not if it's extremely advantageous in the content, because it helps you to
not wipe
.

You won't change the people. The only thing that can be changed is content.

I'm not sure this statement is true, GW2 is a horizontal progression game, so you're doing the same content over and over, eventually you'll learn how to do the content and it won't be an issue.

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@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

If raids go non-existent I wouldn't care, they are not interested and are just a way for the "Elite" to wank the E-peen. The loot is garbo, the encounters are garbo and frankly Id rather them use the resources elsewhere for better content. Like a WvW overhaul or maybe like I don't know class balance? Stop wasting resources on an extremely niche game mode, and as seen strikes seem way more readily accessed by the community than raids do. But then.... that just might be because of the people within that section of the community? Who knows. If you want quality raiding WoW exists and that is ALL that game has been about and has been built from the ground up over the years to be master at raid encounters, Guild wars 2? Was never designed for such and shoe-horning it in was a mistake, one that continues to be wanked about even today as its population dwindles and continues to sink.

Sorry, but its a waste of precious developer time.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:That works only if all groups have the same chances of success (even if for some it will take longer). Once it's no longer the case, the friction gets even higher.

In-game friction is mostly removed if groups set their own requirements, aside from those rare snowflakes that enter groups they don't belong to by faking the requirements. Or the other special snowflakes that join groups without requirements and hijack them. But special snowflakes aside, having requirements leads to less friction than without having any requirements, as someone said once: "if you don't post requirements, you don't have expectations", which could cause way more friction in the end.Like i said (and which you keep ignoring), for that to work well, the requirements should be just a matter of choice of gameplay style you prefer. Unfortunately, they
aren't
. They impact far more - specifically, they influence the success chances. As such, the choice is often not a choice. Or rather it's a choice that only one group can make - and
is
making. The other group... well, they either try to mix with the first group somehow, creating friction, or give up on the content, which also creates bad feelings.

You're trying to present the choice as if it's between choosing a playstyle you prefer, when in reality it's often a choice between succeeding or failing. And a choice like that is not a choice at all.

@tim.4596 said:I'm not sure this statement is true, GW2 is a horizontal progression game, so you're doing the same content over and over, eventually you'll learn how to do the content and it won't be an issue.Or, far more likey is that you'll fail over and over, and then eventually you give up on the content completely. The point where you'll get experienced enough is for many way too far to be willing to carry on through the very unfun phase of constant failures.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

If raids go non-existent I wouldn't care, they are not interested and are just a way for the "Elite" to kitten the E-kitten. The loot is garbo, the encounters are garbo and frankly Id rather them use the resources elsewhere for better content. Like a WvW overhaul or maybe like I don't know class balance? Stop wasting resources on an extremely niche game mode, and as seen strikes seem way more readily accessed by the community than raids do. But then.... that just might be because of the people within that section of the community? Who knows. If you want quality raiding WoW exists and that is ALL that game has been about and has been built from the ground up over the years to be master at raid encounters, Guild wars 2? Was never designed for such and shoe-horning it in was a mistake, one that continues to be wanked about even today as its population dwindles and continues to sink.

Sorry, but its a waste of precious developer time.

Raids in GW2 are very good, especially compared to WoW, they don't have a proper release pattern. They are not as difficult as WoW Mythic mode, but they are much more dynamic than in WoW, and the way you fight encounters as a group feels very refreshing compared to WoW, who has been the MMORPG model for so many other games. But it's such an old game, and is starting to show.

The thing is back in HoT GW2 became extremely promising Raid wise, as it had content release every three months, however very few people partake in raids, and they saw a massive decline in PoF. It pretty much went from Raid wing release being quarterly to yearly. But Path of Fire still had a bit of raid release, to be fair most of us Raid players are delirious to think that they are gonna release new raids, Strikes seems to get all the attention.

Regarding developers wasting their time, I hardly see how so, Open World team, Fractal, Strike and Raid team, should be very different teams, they would just need to actually have a Raid team. So it wouldn't really be a waste of anyone's time, it would just be more content to be released for the game. Sadly Anet hasn't displayed any interest towards Raids. When Bjora came out, they did announce that Raids were not out of the question but they couldn't confirm it at the time either. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The issue is that the community is extremely demanding when it comes to Raids, and have really high expectation, since content release is so scarce. We'd generally get 3 or 4 boss per wing, whilst we'd truly want 10 or 12 even if it means that some of them have less good mechanics, it wouldn't matter much. But Anet just doesn't have the team for it, or don't have any particular interest towards making GW2 a raiding game.

I think they are strongly miscalculating the rate at which a lot of players are able to consume the entirety of the content, and be left with nothing much to do but repeatable content for a vast majority of us players. Or players interest when it comes to difficult content. As it now stand once you've reached maximum Mastery Points, unlocked all the mounts that comes with it, made a few legendaries, gone through making legendary armour, rings etc... you're not left with much to do, content becomes very reapeatble. Let's do fractal, raids, conquest, WvW.... E V E R Y single day until the next patch release. It's not that much fun and even worst, a lot of your friends start quitting the game because they get bored.

I understand that Anet goes towards making the game for their biggest audience, which might be Open World, however they are strongly under evaluating how are those players willing to play different game modes, in order to keep themselves busy.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:That works only if all groups have the same chances of success (even if for some it will take longer). Once it's no longer the case, the friction gets even higher.

In-game friction is mostly removed if groups set their own requirements, aside from those rare snowflakes that enter groups they don't belong to by faking the requirements. Or the other special snowflakes that join groups without requirements and hijack them. But special snowflakes aside, having requirements leads to less friction than without having any requirements, as someone said once: "if you don't post requirements, you don't have expectations", which could cause way more friction in the end.Like i said (and which you keep ignoring), for that to work well, the requirements should be just a matter of choice of gameplay style you prefer. Unfortunately, they
aren't
. They impact far more - specifically, they influence the success chances. As such, the choice is often not a choice. Or rather it's a choice that only one group can make - and
is
making. The other group... well, they either try to mix with the first group somehow, creating friction, or give up on the content, which also creates bad feelings.

You're trying to present the choice as if it's between choosing a playstyle you prefer, when in reality it's often a choice between succeeding or failing. And a choice like that is not a choice at all.

@"tim.4596" said:I'm not sure this statement is true, GW2 is a horizontal progression game, so you're doing the same content over and over, eventually you'll learn how to do the content and it won't be an issue.Or, far more likey is that you'll fail over and over, and then eventually you
give up on the content completely
. The point where you'll get experienced enough is for many way too far to be willing to carry on through the very unfun phase of constant failures.

Boneskinner achievement sells goes as follow 3 healer and 1 dps, and they kill the boss, and manage to get the whoever people who joined the group the achievements of not dying a single time until the boss is dead. Most of the time you'd get it first or 2nd try, it's literally not that difficult, plenty of open worlders actually dodge way more mechanics than try hard people, they just have a wrong rotation and often don't use a dps meter so they fail to fit enough skills to do damage and rather focus too much on dodging. The point is you're seriously underestimating most people play skills. As well as how "difficult" strike missions are actually. You'd pretty much need 70% of your squad to be bad in order for you not to be able to defeat the boss. a single really good dps is enough to deafest the boss before enrage mode..

There is almost no scenario in which you would fail over and over, unless the commander is really bad, but you really shouldn't be making a squad if you can't fix things. The only scenario in which you'd often run to, is having miscalculated, what classes you might need on bosses like bone skinner, and have people on specific key classes who cannot swap. Like if you're trying to do Overheal bone skinner with only 2 heal that would most likely not work, or if your team keeps dying etc... or if no single dps class can stay alive, but just 1 or 2 dps is enough.

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@"tim.4596" said:It's either gonna continue to split the community in two between those who can do "harder" strike missions and those who can do "easier" strike missions, and as we saw with both fractals and raids, that content is just gonna be non-existent in the long run.

KP/LI isn't splitting the community, as you describe...skill + gear + game knowledge does that. There remains a percentage of the GW2 player base that attempt "harder" strike missions, but have no business doing so, as it remains outside their current reach. Same holds true of T4 LFGs - there are far too many folks in the parties I join who should be down in T2 or T3, but instead get carried by others through T4.

For some players, they are done with carrying the driftwood, so they form their own LFGs with set requirements, and while asking for KP/LI isn't a guarantee of anything, if the tactic didn't work, players wouldn't do it.

Now of course everyone has to learn, and there is equally nothing wrong with creating an LFG for just that purpose - and I promise you that no speed-clear, git gud tryhard is going to join that LFG and demand everyone perform to their level.

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@"Astralporing.1957" said:Like i said (and which you keep ignoring), for that to work well, the requirements should be just a matter of choice of gameplay style you prefer.

Players either respect the requirements (and there is no friction) or they don't (and there is). It's a simple matter of honesty and respect. You are concerned that some players will find their skill level and playstyle inadequate to beat the content and therefore will try to join groups with requirements they don't fill and cause friction. That's unfortunate but given the many groups without requirements that succeed in clearing all Strike Missions I see no reason of concern. Given that, the only reason for a player to a join a group without filling the requirements is for pure greed and entitlement. They will get "rooted out" eventually, or more strict (or easier to enforce) requirements will appear, as the existence of such players is the reason for having requirements in the first place.

The point where you'll get experienced enough is for many way too far to be willing to carry on through the very unfun phase of constant failures.

And they simply want to skip directly to the point of success by abusing the efforts of others. Great idea and the primary reason for any kind of friction between players.

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