HEY ANET we want more playable builds on Thief

[TheThief.8475]

Thief is not op or weak these days. The problem is another :

-you can play D/P ganker (wich is very effective and so much boring at the same time- for those who like solo play) or-condi core thief, which is good, but boring as well after a few games.

I would like to have fun with thief.. When S/D builds and D/D builds worked thief was a lot of fun.

What now? community asks for nerf and you KILLED evything except the above mentioned builds, deadeye is useless imo, i'm able to delete them with both these builds, also, block kills your burst stealth rifle (has a long cast time too- so easy to avoid).

So the scope of this post is to PRAY ANET to rework some traits, mechanincs, or anything else. You can't handle spam problem? Find a solution that is not putting 6 initiative cost on each useful skill (or 7 - wanna talk about chocking gas? - you use it only to stop ress most of the times, 7 initiative cost, while you have guardians blocking everything and easy ressing eveyone and noone complain about that? team fights are ruined by that stupid ress, 3 ppl or more can't stop a ress sometime).

If you can't handle initiative machanic, rework it, find a different way, if u want to stop spam by putting 6 or 7 initiative cost on decent skills you KILL all the others utility (that also cost a lot like 4 at least) , the result is YOU USE 1 SKILL maybe 2 during ALL THE FIGHT --> BORING

You need to find a different way, even global cooldown, anything that can stop spam without killing fun and usability of other skills (that you can't use in fight because damage is already only decent when u spam ur strongest skillt - except condi that has good dmg)

I cry when i play pvp because i MUST use boring builds to be effective.

PLEASE WORK TO MAKE THIEF LOT OF FUN AGAIN.I love you ANET <3 don't misunderstand, I know you can do better if you get fancy.

[saerni.2584]

Deadeye isn’t dead :-p

At least if all the people who try to kill me and die are any indication.

[NuhDah.9812]

I can swear last time I checked DE and S/D were the boring builds...

[Obtena.7952]

@NuhDah.9812 said:I can swear last time I checked DE and S/D were the boring builds...

Hold on ... boring to you doesn't mean they aren't playable builds ... I mean ... we all like lots of builds to play and the way GW2 is designed, we have access to all of them. So what is your REAL ask here? Any build you can make is 'playable' ... so what you asking for is not JUST more playable builds right?

[NuhDah.9812]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@NuhDah.9812 said:I can swear last time I checked DE and S/D were the boring builds...

Hold on ... boring to you doesn't mean they aren't playable builds ... I mean ... we all like lots of builds to play and the way GW2 is designed, you have them. So what is your REAL ask here?

True, I'm not denying that.

[Obtena.7952]

@NuhDah.9812 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@NuhDah.9812 said:I can swear last time I checked DE and S/D were the boring builds...

Hold on ... boring to you doesn't mean they aren't playable builds ... I mean ... we all like lots of builds to play and the way GW2 is designed, you have them. So what is your REAL ask here?

True, I'm not denying that.

Right, so what is it you REALLY want? and how do you suggest Anet give them to you? I mean, we have to be fair in how we ask for things. 'Playable' and 'not boring' ... two very subjective terms that aren't going to tell people what you are after.

[NuhDah.9812]

I don't want anything. OP seems to believe there is not enough S/D and D/D and maybe riffle out there.

[Obtena.7952]

I guess my question is aimed at the general population, not just yourself. We see lots of 'oh Anet you killed this and that' but the truth is that the builds that are 'playable' aren't engineered by Anet to be that way ... they are simply the builds players find out of the combination of everything that are most 'successful' to players ... however they want to define success. If the OP wants more 'playable' builds ... it's just a matter of finding the combinations of things that already exist to be whatever he defines 'playable' to be.

[TheThief.8475]

@Obtena.7952 said:I guess my question is aimed at the general population, not just yourself. We see lots of 'oh Anet you killed this and that' but the truth is that the builds that are 'playable' aren't engineered by Anet to be that way ... they are simply the builds players find out of the combination of everything that are most 'successful' to players ... however they want to define success. If the OP wants more 'playable' builds ... it's just a matter of finding the combinations of things that already exist to be whatever he defines 'playable' to be.

If that's so easy to you try to find an effective sword/dagger build (that s not based on escaping whenever you lose a fight and go somewhere else)

[TheThief.8475]

I made the post because i sometime try to make new build, but most of the time you have to pick the usual traits from a tree bacuse the rest are just there to make number and not to have a real utily, for example in trickery you always choose the 3rd trait on the first tree, the first is useless, even with condi build, the second has 6sec bonus for a 60s colldown, thats what i mean, you can choose builds, but actually you have few good options on traits.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

@saerni.2584 said:Deadeye isn’t dead :-p

At least if all the people who try to kill me and die are any indication.

Having bitten the bullet and experimented to great success with a deadeye rifle d/P build, I can second this. I don't think I'll ever go back! The sheet amount of support it provides teams is brilliant.

[kash.9213]

@TheThief.8475 said:I made the post because i sometime try to make new build, but most of the time you have to pick the usual traits from a tree bacuse the rest are just there to make number and not to have a real utily, for example in trickery you always choose the 3rd trait on the first tree, the first is useless, even with condi build, the second has 6sec bonus for a 60s colldown, thats what i mean, you can choose builds, but actually you have few good options on traits.

That cooldown sucks but I do use that trait, often with s/d which feels about right for the pace that I'm going to close the distance and try to open someone up, and I just couldn't fit quickness elsewhere that didn't throw off something more important. I still kind of agree though, that cooldown makes the 3rd trait a better choice.

[Obtena.7952]

@TheThief.8475 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I guess my question is aimed at the general population, not just yourself. We see lots of 'oh Anet you killed this and that' but the truth is that the builds that are 'playable' aren't engineered by Anet to be that way ... they are simply the builds players find out of the combination of everything that are most 'successful' to players ... however they want to define success. If the OP wants more 'playable' builds ... it's just a matter of finding the combinations of things that already exist to be whatever he defines 'playable' to be.

If that's so easy to you try to find an effective sword/dagger build (that s not based on escaping whenever you lose a fight and go somewhere else)

Why would I limit myself to a sword/dagger build? Seems to me that's just an indication of why you CAN'T do what I said you have to do.

[TheThief.8475]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheThief.8475 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I guess my question is aimed at the general population, not just yourself. We see lots of 'oh Anet you killed this and that' but the truth is that the builds that are 'playable' aren't engineered by Anet to be that way ... they are simply the builds players find out of the combination of everything that are most 'successful' to players ... however they want to define success. If the OP wants more 'playable' builds ... it's just a matter of finding the combinations of things that already exist to be whatever he defines 'playable' to be.

If that's so easy to you try to find an effective sword/dagger build (that s not based on escaping whenever you lose a fight and go somewhere else)

Why would I limit myself to a sword/dagger build? Seems to me that's just an indication of why you CAN'T do what I said you have to do.

i made this post because i'd like more funcional build, and in the itroduction i said that s/d builds doesn't work good atm, then you said "it's just a matter to find the right combination"I think now it's clear why i asked you that question

[Obtena.7952]

@TheThief.8475 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheThief.8475 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I guess my question is aimed at the general population, not just yourself. We see lots of 'oh Anet you killed this and that' but the truth is that the builds that are 'playable' aren't engineered by Anet to be that way ... they are simply the builds players find out of the combination of everything that are most 'successful' to players ... however they want to define success. If the OP wants more 'playable' builds ... it's just a matter of finding the combinations of things that already exist to be whatever he defines 'playable' to be.

If that's so easy to you try to find an effective sword/dagger build (that s not based on escaping whenever you lose a fight and go somewhere else)

Why would I limit myself to a sword/dagger build? Seems to me that's just an indication of why you CAN'T do what I said you have to do.

i made this post because i'd like more funcional build, and in the itroduction i said that s/d builds doesn't work good atm, then you said "it's just a matter to find the right combination"I think now it's clear why i asked you that question

OK ... and it should be equally clear what I'm telling you.

'Functional' builds aren't something Anet engineers for players to ensure some minimum number of them that exist. They come from people making combinations of things, experimenting and determining what combinations work the best for whatever situation they are used in. Why you think that needs to be restricted to S/D builds, I have no idea ... but that's not how this works.

[Kulvar.1239]

I think the key to make Thief "great again" without restoring the spammability of problematic skills is to touch to Initiative itself.

Increase the cost of skills by 50% to 100%.Baseline : Gain 2 Initiative every second.

Some things would have to be adapted to that change.Traits : Initiative gained is doubled (Preparedness is unchanged).Signet of Infiltration : Gain 1 Initiative every 5 second.Roll for Initiative : Gain 9 Initiative. Cooldown is 20s (PvE) and 35s (WvW, PvP).Unload : Cost 10 Initiative. If all attacks hit, gain 4 Initiative (PvE) or 2 Initiative (WvW, PvP)Mercy : No longer gain Initiative per stack of Malice. Gain 1 Initiative per second, last 1 second per stack of Malice. Cooldown is 25s.

[kash.9213]

@"Kulvar.1239" said:I think the key to make Thief "great again" without restoring the spammability of problematic skills is to touch to Initiative itself.

Increase the cost of skills by 50% to 100%.Baseline : Gain 2 Initiative every second.

Some things would have to be adapted to that change.Traits : Initiative gained is doubled (Preparedness is unchanged).Signet of Infiltration : Gain 1 Initiative every 5 second.Roll for Initiative : Gain 9 Initiative. Cooldown is 20s (PvE) and 35s (WvW, PvP).Unload : Cost 10 Initiative. If all attacks hit, gain 4 Initiative (PvE) or 2 Initiative (WvW, PvP)Mercy : No longer gain Initiative per stack of Malice. Gain 1 Initiative per second, last 1 second per stack of Malice. Cooldown is 25s.

Time gained Initiative still looks like a coold down to me. I feel like the Initiative cost keeps going up not so much because our Ini was out of wack or too generously given but more as an easy, right now, way to nerf individual skills. That's not a healthy way to balance our profession especially since most of the Ini cost had felt pretty good and fair for awhile.

[Kulvar.1239]

@kash.9213 said:

@"Kulvar.1239" said:I think the key to make Thief "great again" without restoring the spammability of problematic skills is to touch to Initiative itself.

Increase the cost of skills by 50% to 100%.Baseline : Gain 2 Initiative every second.

Some things would have to be adapted to that change.Traits : Initiative gained is doubled (Preparedness is unchanged).Signet of Infiltration : Gain 1 Initiative every 5 second.Roll for Initiative : Gain 9 Initiative. Cooldown is 20s (PvE) and 35s (WvW, PvP).Unload : Cost 10 Initiative. If all attacks hit, gain 4 Initiative (PvE) or 2 Initiative (WvW, PvP)Mercy : No longer gain Initiative per stack of Malice. Gain 1 Initiative per second, last 1 second per stack of Malice. Cooldown is 25s.

Time gained Initiative still looks like a coold down to me. I feel like the Initiative cost keeps going up not so much because our Ini was out of wack or too generously given but more as an easy, right now, way to nerf individual skills. That's not a healthy way to balance our profession especially since most of the Ini cost had felt pretty good and fair for awhile.

The alternative would be putting a CD on the problematic skills, but it seem ANet is against that solution.

[kash.9213]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:I think the key to make Thief "great again" without restoring the spammability of problematic skills is to touch to Initiative itself.

Increase the cost of skills by 50% to 100%.Baseline : Gain 2 Initiative every second.

Some things would have to be adapted to that change.Traits : Initiative gained is doubled (Preparedness is unchanged).Signet of Infiltration : Gain 1 Initiative every 5 second.Roll for Initiative : Gain 9 Initiative. Cooldown is 20s (PvE) and 35s (WvW, PvP).Unload : Cost 10 Initiative. If all attacks hit, gain 4 Initiative (PvE) or 2 Initiative (WvW, PvP)Mercy : No longer gain Initiative per stack of Malice. Gain 1 Initiative per second, last 1 second per stack of Malice. Cooldown is 25s.

Time gained Initiative still looks like a coold down to me. I feel like the Initiative cost keeps going up not so much because our Ini was out of wack or too generously given but more as an easy, right now, way to nerf individual skills. That's not a healthy way to balance our profession especially since most of the Ini cost had felt pretty good and fair for awhile.

The alternative would be putting a CD on the problematic skills, but it seem ANet is against that solution.

Whatever skills are decided to be problematic for reasons aren't going to be resolved by slapping on a cd though or by pricing us out of using all aspects of that skill instead of resolving whatever the problem was that people were crying about.

[Chips.7968]

I made the post because i sometime try to make new build, but most of the time you have to pick the usual traits from a tree bacuse the rest are just there to make number and not to have a real utily, for example

the second has 6sec bonus for a 60s colldown

Yup; sigils on weapons do a better job for me - more quickness than the trait and more frequently.

That trait may have the advantage of being a stun break... but it procs when you're in combat and hit someone from side/behind, rather than the opportune moment to have it proc to break a stun (when you can't attack, so guessing via steal? but hardly reliable unless instantly stunned - must admit, not messed about with it precisely for that reason)

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@kash.9213 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:I think the key to make Thief "great again" without restoring the spammability of problematic skills is to touch to Initiative itself.

Increase the cost of skills by 50% to 100%.Baseline : Gain 2 Initiative every second.

Some things would have to be adapted to that change.Traits : Initiative gained is doubled (Preparedness is unchanged).Signet of Infiltration : Gain 1 Initiative every 5 second.Roll for Initiative : Gain 9 Initiative. Cooldown is 20s (PvE) and 35s (WvW, PvP).Unload : Cost 10 Initiative. If all attacks hit, gain 4 Initiative (PvE) or 2 Initiative (WvW, PvP)Mercy : No longer gain Initiative per stack of Malice. Gain 1 Initiative per second, last 1 second per stack of Malice. Cooldown is 25s.

Time gained Initiative still looks like a coold down to me. I feel like the Initiative cost keeps going up not so much because our Ini was out of wack or too generously given but more as an easy, right now, way to nerf individual skills. That's not a healthy way to balance our profession especially since most of the Ini cost had felt pretty good and fair for awhile.

The alternative would be putting a CD on the problematic skills, but it seem ANet is against that solution.

Whatever skills are decided to be problematic for reasons aren't going to be resolved by slapping on a cd though or by pricing us out of using all aspects of that skill instead of resolving whatever the problem was that people were crying about.

^ this. I'd rather have skills have weaker effects but to be able to use more than one initiative consuming skill at once than to have each weapon skill being so powerful that they lock me out of all other weapon skills with each use due to ini costs (see choking gas for a prime example, just remove the daze and make it cost 4 ini again, problem solved).

[TheThief.8475]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:I think the key to make Thief "great again" without restoring the spammability of problematic skills is to touch to Initiative itself.

Increase the cost of skills by 50% to 100%.Baseline : Gain 2 Initiative every second.

Some things would have to be adapted to that change.Traits : Initiative gained is doubled (Preparedness is unchanged).Signet of Infiltration : Gain 1 Initiative every 5 second.Roll for Initiative : Gain 9 Initiative. Cooldown is 20s (PvE) and 35s (WvW, PvP).Unload : Cost 10 Initiative. If all attacks hit, gain 4 Initiative (PvE) or 2 Initiative (WvW, PvP)Mercy : No longer gain Initiative per stack of Malice. Gain 1 Initiative per second, last 1 second per stack of Malice. Cooldown is 25s.

Time gained Initiative still looks like a coold down to me. I feel like the Initiative cost keeps going up not so much because our Ini was out of wack or too generously given but more as an easy, right now, way to nerf individual skills. That's not a healthy way to balance our profession especially since most of the Ini cost had felt pretty good and fair for awhile.

The alternative would be putting a CD on the problematic skills, but it seem ANet is against that solution.

Whatever skills are decided to be problematic for reasons aren't going to be resolved by slapping on a cd though or by pricing us out of using all aspects of that skill instead of resolving whatever the problem was that people were crying about.

^ this. I'd rather have skills have weaker effects but to be able to use more than one initiative consuming skill at once than to have each weapon skill being so powerful that they lock me out of all other weapon skills with each use due to ini costs (see choking gas for a prime example, just remove the daze and make it cost 4 ini again, problem solved).

Here we go anet nerfed condi thief too. Now we can throw it away

[Yasai.3549]

Thief just needs 1 Skill and Steal.

That's all their class is about anyway.

[lare.5129]

we already have a lot of builds. All depend only from you.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@TheThief.8475 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:I think the key to make Thief "great again" without restoring the spammability of problematic skills is to touch to Initiative itself.

Increase the cost of skills by 50% to 100%.Baseline : Gain 2 Initiative every second.

Some things would have to be adapted to that change.Traits : Initiative gained is doubled (Preparedness is unchanged).Signet of Infiltration : Gain 1 Initiative every 5 second.Roll for Initiative : Gain 9 Initiative. Cooldown is 20s (PvE) and 35s (WvW, PvP).Unload : Cost 10 Initiative. If all attacks hit, gain 4 Initiative (PvE) or 2 Initiative (WvW, PvP)Mercy : No longer gain Initiative per stack of Malice. Gain 1 Initiative per second, last 1 second per stack of Malice. Cooldown is 25s.

Time gained Initiative still looks like a coold down to me. I feel like the Initiative cost keeps going up not so much because our Ini was out of wack or too generously given but more as an easy, right now, way to nerf individual skills. That's not a healthy way to balance our profession especially since most of the Ini cost had felt pretty good and fair for awhile.

The alternative would be putting a CD on the problematic skills, but it seem ANet is against that solution.

Whatever skills are decided to be problematic for reasons aren't going to be resolved by slapping on a cd though or by pricing us out of using all aspects of that skill instead of resolving whatever the problem was that people were crying about.

^ this. I'd rather have skills have weaker effects but to be able to use more than one initiative consuming skill at once than to have each weapon skill being so powerful that they lock me out of all other weapon skills with each use due to ini costs (see choking gas for a prime example, just remove the daze and make it cost 4 ini again, problem solved).

Here we go anet nerfed condi thief too. Now we can throw it away

Honestly the condi nerfs weren't bad, my WvW condi build could get a 5k combined tick pre patch from sneak attack and shadow strike alone which is nuts when you think about it. Condi ought to be attrition, not burst.