Sword AA

[noot.8641]

As the title says, the Auto Attack damage on sword in spvp is too low right now.After the latest AA dmg nerf on sword it just isn't on par versus other builds, okay s/d still has good mobility, but agaisnt a good d/p player who constantly goes stealth and does good BS dmg and constantly blinds you, you just can't do much when u hit less than 1k AA's..D/P still is viable because of stealth and BS, but s/d doesn't have that potential to do that much constant dmg.I think you guys should think of buffing AA for sword again, since it's the second AA nerf they've gotten, and it just doesn't work out imo.

[NuhDah.9812]

S/d and D/p are better in different match-ups. It's not like d/p thieves are your only enemy, so getting to conclusions about the AA dmg while thinking in a one-dimensional fashion like that isn't going to help you.

[Infusion.7149]

Sword is better for teamfights due to boon rip even while revealed (spear of justice from DH/sic em from soulbeast / gaze of darkness from herald/ lock on from holo / magebane tether from spellbreaker).

[Chips.7968]

It's not just a lack of sword AA damage directly via auto attack - the AA is also twice as slow as dagger AA making cleaving a real hazard when attempting to land damage (and not a problem in just pvp). Should add, counter argument isn't that it's weak but a few other classes / builds are a bit over tuned maybe.

S/D can boon rip, but weapon sigils means pistol offhand 4 can boon rip on interrupts (wvw for example).

[noot.8641]

The thing is, you dont see s/d thieves in ranked.. Why is that do you think?You can say thief sword dmg is fine blabla, but go do some pvp and 90% of the time it’s d/p or condi p/d.As you said chips, the attack speed is low aswell.You cant just AA anymore on sword almost in pvp, it just isnt doing anything vs all the condi aoe spam.If you dare to go in without steal your only choice basicly is to spam 3, that’s the only skill doing dmg these days, and vs all those classes with superspeed it can be a pain to land the 3.You just have to be a real good player to be able to do smth with s/d in pvp.Either buff s/d or nerf d/p, cuz d/p or condi is just ez mode now. (But i guess that’s what you guys at anet want, dumb this whole game down so some noob players can join.

[lare.5129]

I use 2 thief builds, one - heal support with sword, second condi pistol from Kitty.Don't wait magic dps from this class. Sword is good weapon, and have some benefits. It not need any burst now.

[noot.8641]

@lare.5129 said:I use 2 thief builds, one - heal support with sword, second condi pistol from Kitty.Don't wait magic dps from this class. Sword is good weapon, and have some benefits. It not need any burst now.So just because you use 2 thieves builds, s/d is fine now.. ok dude.You actually said it urself, heal support build lol..S/d needs to get buffed or some shit has to get nerfed.

[noot.8641]

@NuhDah.9812 said:S/d and D/p are better in different match-ups. It's not like d/p thieves are your only enemy, so getting to conclusions about the AA dmg while thinking in a one-dimensional fashion like that isn't going to help you.

Can you please tell me in what match up s/d is better than D/P atm?Please enlighten me.

[lare.5129]

@noot.8641 said:S/d needs to get buffedit not need. This weapon not for dps. Boonstrip, unblockdabage, dodge for survive ..

some kitten has to get nerfed.Not so much. May be it trouble for legends, but on 950 rank and tournaments we have good fights.

[noot.8641]

@lare.5129 said:

@noot.8641 said:S/d needs to get buffedit not need. This weapon not for dps. Boonstrip, unblockdabage, dodge for survive ..

some kitten has to get nerfed.Not so much. May be it trouble for legends, but on 950 rank and tournaments we have good fights.

This weapon is not for DPS, all good with you bruv?

[lare.5129]

@"noot.8641" said:This weapon is not for DPS, all good with you bruv?Lets read read skillshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills1 - Slice and Slash wiht power.cof 0.4 3 chain and make Crippled target.2 - 0 ( zero ) damage Shadowstep and cure one condition.3whit dagger Dual Wield. Evade and stab your foe and > Stab your foe and steal boons from them.so boon strip.whit pistol Dual Wield. Pistol-whip your foe, stunning them, then slash repeatedly with your sword.so more stun and cc.

Do you see some massive condi stack expect cripped on 1 chain ? Do you see some magic power boost?I see only evade, boonstrip , and some soft cc with Evade .. So it more for support, just set criple, cc target, make boonstrip, and avoid damage. So I use sword only wiht support build.

So if build/class designers look at sword as a support weapon why should I think that this is for dps? Only because it named "sword"???

[noot.8641]

@lare.5129 said:

@"noot.8641" said:This weapon is not for DPS, all good with you bruv?Lets read read skills

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills

1 - Slice and Slash wiht power.cof

0.4

3 chain and make Crippled target.2 - 0 (

zero

) damage Shadowstep and cure one condition.3whit dagger Dual Wield.

Evade

and stab your foe and > Stab your foe and

steal boons

from them.so boon strip.whit pistol Dual Wield. Pistol-whip your foe,

stunning

them, then slash repeatedly with your sword.so more stun and cc.

Do you see some massive condi stack expect cripped on 1 chain ? Do you see some magic power boost?I see only evade, boonstrip , and some soft cc with Evade .. So it more for support, just set criple, cc target, make boonstrip, and avoid damage. So I use sword only wiht support build.

So if build/class designers look at sword as a support weapon why should I think that this is for dps? Only because it named "sword"???

So, you're basicly saying thief has a support build now with sword?Thieves have never had a support build man, the only builds thieves have had is DPS builds, sorry to burst your bubble here.

[lare.5129]

@"noot.8641" said:Thieves have never had a support build manfrom 2013

till 2020

don't want spam many videos on forum, but believe me, it not something unique, both on spvp , and on wvw

[NuhDah.9812]

@noot.8641 said:

@NuhDah.9812 said:S/d and D/p are better in different match-ups. It's not like d/p thieves are your only enemy, so getting to conclusions about the AA dmg while thinking in a one-dimensional fashion like that isn't going to help you.

Can you please tell me in what match up s/d is better than D/P atm?Please enlighten me.

Like when fighting against professions with lots of blocks, or situations where sustain and lots of boon strip is required...? Not to mention if we are talking about pistol whip, that too i believe is a better choice for like 2v2 arenas.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Too much dmg is on the duel attacks which can be repeated a few cycles rather than aa tbh, and even steal/swipe cnd with tactical strike can do a total of 10k. Aa is only good for downed enemy's and or npcs

[noot.8641]

@NuhDah.9812 said:

@noot.8641 said:

@NuhDah.9812 said:S/d and D/p are better in different match-ups. It's not like d/p thieves are your only enemy, so getting to conclusions about the AA dmg while thinking in a one-dimensional fashion like that isn't going to help you.

Can you please tell me in what match up s/d is better than D/P atm?Please enlighten me.

Like when fighting against professions with lots of blocks, or situations where sustain and lots of boon strip is required...? Not to mention if we are talking about pistol whip, that too i believe is a better choice for like 2v2 arenas.

In theory that is the case, but in practical you just don’t see any s/d thieves!Why would someone go s/d to hardly strip more boons than d/p in match with ppl who know what they are doing, because the only thing that is an extra boonstrip on s/d is the last hit from n3 which u almost never can land on good players, so that is ur only advantage.. Instead if you go d/p you can easily perma blind ppl, which is way more effective than just stealing 1 boon extra.Even you said it, pistol whip is even better to take..S/D is not total garbage, but vs d/p, s/d is just not on par.

[noot.8641]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Too much dmg is on the duel attacks which can be repeated a few cycles rather than aa tbh, and even steal/swipe cnd with tactical strike can do a total of 10k. Aa is only good for downed enemy's and or npcs

I agree with that on wvw, but not on spvp my friend.The only thing i don’t agree with is the AA on downed players, it does potato dmg.. you would be stupid to not use ur bow instead of ur wet noodle.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Tbh, not been into pvp in a long time, probably since before the first aa nerf

[Chips.7968]

@"lare.5129" said: class designers look at sword as a support weapon why should I think that this is for dps? Only because it named "sword"???

Sorry, can you provide some evidence of the "support" that sword does - in what way? Please don't just say "it boon strips on sword 3 if you land the second half of it". You have to be in melee range to affect that and is dependent upon it landing. The 3 skill shows a 20% increase in dmg if hitting a boonless opponent, which seems dps to me. Boons these days pulse, stacking on opposition, so ripping them sees them reapplied, so it's not quite as strong as it once was.

The video someone quotes for "support" is from 2013, there's been a significant amount of changes (including boons) since then. I mean did you watch it? Apparently thief is support as it can give out boons. If you look his claims about "support" by giving out boons are completely independent of the sword build, as is steal for removing. Nothing to do with sword - so even d/p, s/p, d/d. DrD have the same level of support at that point. Furthermore, many other classes give out far better, and far more frequent, and stacks (thief doesn't) of boons.

I just don't see how sword is clearly a support weapon. If it's all about boon strip, then pistol offhand, s/p on 3, short bow on 4 - all with absorption runes can do more (obviously if interrupting something). I can agree sword isn't DPS, it's more attrition (a bit like condi is supposed to be) - but that doesn't mean it's support. However, it is a bit under powered - not hugely - but a little bit - which is what is being mentioned :D Not asking for it to be First Place DPS choice for thief. Pointing out it's too weak.

[Kodama.6453]

@Chips.7968 said:

@"lare.5129" said: class designers look at sword as a support weapon why should I think that this is for dps? Only because it named "sword"???

Sorry, can you provide some evidence of the "support" that sword does - in what way? Please don't just say "it boon strips on sword 3 if you land the second half of it". You have to be in melee range to affect that and is dependent upon it landing. The 3 skill shows a 20% increase in dmg if hitting a boonless opponent, which seems dps to me. Boons these days pulse, stacking on opposition, so ripping them sees them reapplied, so it's not quite as strong as it once was.

The video someone quotes for "support" is from 2013, there's been a significant amount of changes (including boons) since then. I mean did you watch it? Apparently thief is support as it can give out boons. If you look his claims about "support" by giving out boons are completely independent of the sword build, as is steal for removing. Nothing to do with sword - so even d/p, s/p, d/d. DrD have the same level of support at that point. Furthermore, many other classes give out far better, and far more frequent, and stacks (thief doesn't) of boons.

I just don't see how sword is clearly a support weapon. If it's all about boon strip, then pistol offhand, s/p on 3, short bow on 4 - all with absorption runes can do more (obviously if interrupting something). I can agree sword isn't DPS, it's more attrition (a bit like condi is supposed to be) - but that doesn't mean it's support. However, it is a bit under powered - not hugely - but a little bit - which is what is being mentioned :D Not asking for it to be First Place DPS choice for thief. Pointing out it's too weak.

I think he refers to the point that sword provides a double shadowstep ability (sword 2 + chain ability). Thief has a trait in shadow arts which heals the thief and surrounding allies whenever a shadowstep is performed and sword is the best weapon to spam shadowsteps, healing allies frequently.

Additionally the points that the weapon provides more utility like boon strip, CC, condi removal... I can see why he thinks it is a support weapon. It is actually the closest thing thief has to a support weapon.

[Chips.7968]

Well, a 1s single target soft cc, and 500 heal on shadow step return if traiting it (stay in 360 of where i'm to return to folks) I can see now it is indeed a support weapon. Best make a meta battle entry :smiley:

[Kodama.6453]

@"Chips.7968" said:Well, a 1s single target soft cc, and 500 heal on shadow step return if traiting it (stay in 360 of where i'm to return to folks) I can see now it is indeed a support weapon. Best make a meta battle entry :smiley:

Maybe we have different definitions for that term here, but isn't cripple also considered soft CC?Which means it has 1 single target root and 1 cleaving cripple (AA) as soft CC on it's skills.Also you are forgetting that sword can also provide hard CC: a stealth attack from behind applies 2 seconds of daze.

Another point I forgot to mention: the auto attack also applies weakness, which reduces the endurance regeneration of your target as well as their strike damage output. Weakness is therefore kinda also supportive, by reducing the damage your allies will take from that specific enemy (if the majority of their damage is power based and not condition based).

Also I never said that it will be comparable to "real" support weapons, like druid's staff. I am just saying that I can see his point, since sword currently is the most supportive weapon you can take for thief. If you want to run a supportive thief build (and there are some options in the traits suggesting that, even if it isn't competitive against actual support specs), then you will most likely go for the sword here.

Maybe that will change with the next expansion, I expect the next thief elite spec that comes with the Canthan release to be a support elite spec like scourge has introduced for necromancers. But until that happens, the point still stands: sword is thief's most supportive weapon to this point.

[Chips.7968]

@Kodama.6453 said:I am just saying that I can see his point, since sword currently is the most supportive weapon you can take for thief.sword is thief's most supportive weapon to this point.

Well, we'll agree to disagree that sword was thief's intended support weapon. We'll agree to disagree it's the most/best support weapon.

Simple example: Short Bow.

Cripple on SB3, Immob for 2s on SB1 (with stealth), Ranged AoE provide blind (5), daze (4), weakness(4 + blast) and with sigil, the boon strip (4 with sigil + the daze actually interrupting). AoE heal with exact same shadow step trait (5) as claimed intended for sword.Support to others through combination with fields due to having a blast finisher (2) and stackable gives: blinds, might, weakness, stealth, healing, condi cleanse, swiftness, auras.

Over to you, sword...

I should point out, I'm not supporting the idea it should compete with dagger, or pistols, or anything else. It's a different play style - but the auto attack needs a small buff to reduce the pain and long attrition fights it takes part in. The acro line has a small power buff (wait, support?) for sword and aids mobility admittedly, but that auto attack chain is just farcical without quickness sigils.

[lare.5129]

@"Chips.7968" said:The video someone quotes for "support" is from 2013, there's been a significant amount of changes (including boons) since then. I mean did you watch it?Yes, I special take oldest video what I have, and newest what I have from where I subscribe. To show and proove what it was long time ago also. And I mark it as from 2013

Apparently thief is support as it can give out boons.support = is not only give boons, or make direct heal. Support = help. If I blind enemy - this is help, if I put criple and meele teammate do push - this is help, if I ress in invisible - this is help. If I invisible finish enemy and teammate can asap switch to another target this is help too..

I just don't see how sword is clearly a support weapon. If it's all about boon strip, then pistol offhand, s/pno, boon-strip then dagger offhand. pistol - for additional stun. And no, boonstip in not main, this is part. Sword mobility, additional shawostep, again mobility, some evade, and etc. It very depend from gameplay style.

[lare.5129]

@Chips.7968 said:It's a different play styleyes. It more depend is teammate understand it also. I don't say what do support in another wepon bad idea. I say - sword sometimes very good for support.