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Please stop asking LI for strike missions


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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.

Raid's, like dungeons, will have its moment as experimental development and then we will move on just like we are doing with fractals. We might only get a few more of those and then the new development idea will spawn. Those are visions of the past instances and strike missions. Why build content that only a few % of the population plays when you have the rest of your population left in waiting? Each raid itself could have EASILY been a story step in the Living World (with modified mechanics of course). That is what hurts me because I would have loved to experience it in the LW.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:the existence of such players is the reason for having requirements in the first place.No, the fact that the performance (or better lack thereof) of a part of the group can have profound impact on the progression speed / success of the content in question is why people put up requirements. No one cares about carrying others in OW metas as long as it goes "smooth enough". The same would also be true for FS if it weren't for the BB on the last part and instanced content in general.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.

"I only care for rewards but refuse to do any work for it, so carry my lazy ass or i will pretend raids don't exist" is why raids were abandond by so many players.

@tim.4596 said:you'd pretty much need 70% of your squad to be bad in order for you not to be able to defeat the boss.Which is exactly what you get if you don't post rediculous requirements. Start Boneskinner without requirements and you're the only one alive after the first wave of aoe circles... every single time... Believe me i tried it dozens of times. The average player in this game nowadays can't run in straight line without hurting himself.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:The "experienced" player pool shrinks every single day. If you do not allow more players to reach the "experienced" level you eventually run out of people to play with and your game is dead.

But there is nothing that doesn't allow them to reach that level. There is a difference between earning and being carried which I don't think is being appreciated in your posts.

Nobody is inherently entitled to someone else's time. If someone wants to teach and carry they will start the appropriate group. If they don't then they will start another group with requirements. You don't get to demand anything of them.

I never understood the mentality of "better start teaching people or your game mode will die". Strikes are easy enough that a majority can be done by anyone so it has a lower barrier to entry but none of that prevent people from playing the game in a way they think is fun with a group of like minded people.

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There is, it's called being gate keeped out of being able to even play the content. Which the """veterans""" are content on doing, even if it means the destruction of their own game to the point where they need to quit and move onto another game(Where btw, they'll be gate keeped out of!)

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:The "experienced" player pool shrinks every single day. If you do not allow more players to reach the "experienced" level you eventually run out of people to play with and your game is dead.

You assume that new people don't join raids and get experienced.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:There is, it's called being gate keeped out of being able to even play the content. Which the """veterans""" are content on doing, even if it means the destruction of their own game to the point where they need to quit and move onto another game(Where btw, they'll be gate keeped out of!)

And how are they gate keeping something that's open to everyone?

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:There is, it's called being gate keeped out of being able to even play the content. Which the """veterans""" are content on doing, even if it means the destruction of their own game to the point where they need to quit and move onto another game(Where btw, they'll be gate keeped out of!)

Many Veterans offer specific training and have setup Guilds,Discord Servers,Guides and training videos to help players get experienced. I believe the Veteran players are entitled to have their high requirement groups when they want an experienced fast run with people who understand every mechanic, will clear easily (most of the time) and understand what’s going on without explanation.

There are many veterans who have put time aside to train new players so they can become more experienced and learn at a faster rate than they did. Veteran players may have spent 10-15hrs on every boss learning it - there is nothing stopping you forming a group with friends and trying to work out how to kill a particular price of content.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:Love how raider gate keepers always assume people want to be "carried" if they dislike their gate keeping.

I don't "assume" anything but talk about my experience. And about facts you could actually test yourself would you stop whining about those bad elitist raiders gatekeeping content just for fun and start playing those game modes. But I assume it's easier living in this fictional world were others are at fault for your inabilities, were people get istantly kicked for low li (something that actually never ever happens; people get kicked for trying to fake li/kp, for underperfoming so hard they get outdps'ed by healers or being obviously completely clueless about a boss -which probably meant they succeded at faking their li at first-, or for being rude and insulting. The latter actually can happen when someone with low li is asked politely to leave the group, but even that's very rare.) and were raiders are just stupid and keep others out for their own amusement and not because they constantly try to include new players but sadly know from this experience what to expect in a "no requirements" group.Ohh... and to return to the real world again... many of those bad elitist do their weekly clear on monday (in a group with really rediculous high requirements^^), then spend the remaining 6 days joining other groups just for fun and mostly not caring about the group's experience. (Of course in your "reality" they probably just do it for all the gold they get... What do you get for completing a full raid wing after your first clear again? ~30silver in salvagable crap ? Minus food/utility costs. Oh yes, time to get insanely rich while laughing about all those noobs i keep from raiding by not allowing them to post their own lfgs if they don't like mine... Oh wait... Sorry... slipped into the mass delusion repeatedly posted here again.)

Speaking of repeatedly posting the same crap. When i started raiding (somewhat after release of wing 3) the exact same posts were filling this forum; only the raw number of li were lower and instead of guild hall trophy tokens people required things like the finished spirit quest potion as proof you have experience. Guess what, i just joined training groups and every other party with low/no requirements to get to used to the boss fights or asked higher li groups politely if they would give me a chance (which ofc is easier if you're willing to fill a needed role or volunteer for mechanics instead of being 1 of the 20 "i just stick to the boss and do my golem trained rotation"-dps competing for a single free slot...^^). Now i stopped counting li long ago (after i had enough to build all legendary armor... wish it wouldn't be that ugly) while doing 100% of all my raiding in pugs formed through lfg tab... Guess those gatekeepers were jsut bad at their job and missed me (...or maybe the ingame reality isn't what the forum makes you believe.)

@"Shiyo.3578" said:The "experienced" player pool shrinks every single day. If you do not allow more players to reach the "experienced" level you eventually run out of people to play with and your game is dead.Sadly it's not the "experienced" raiders pool that shrinks every single day, but the pool of players with skill or any kind of ambiton to do more than just autoattack for lootz.

A few weeks ago i did raid wings 1-4 with a chronotank that never killed anything but vale guardian before, but had done the work of getting useful equipment, reading some guides and watching a few videos from tank pov. I really wished something like this could happen more often, and -as i said before- i have absolutely no problem trying out new guys once in a while (and usually after my moday full clear). But experience tells me that for every single capable guy who's just new to the game or gamemode, there are 100 who just fail hard, whine, leave the group and come the forums to cry about raids and how it's completle not their fault they can't carry their weight.

Which brings us back to the topic... It's okay to bring new people to raids AND strikes, but when doing just a fast run of daily strikes i still prefer requirements that objectively are crazy high. Just because i don't want to start every single day with trying out players to find those minority that bothered to bind dodge to a key and stopped watching nexflix while doing a boss that can actually kill you when you screw up.

And i understand that this is a worse problem with strikes (and fractals...) which many try to do as fast as possible once a day. But sadly it's a problem that won't go away as long as 99% of the game is tuned for people casually klicking a single skill every few seconds while eating/doing homework/watching tv/whatever...

So basically stop blaming the players. Anet created a game for extremely casual play took every chance to listen to the whiners and make everything easier the moment someone cried about it's difficulty (see the whole HoT expansion for example...). If the majority in this game really wants to get rewarded for accomplishing nothing then that's the way the game will change and yes, raids will probably die out or get reduced to just another faceroll content. But that's hardly the fault of players who actually like a challenge and want to play that really small part of difficult-ish content with like-minded players instead of teaching others the very basics of the game for day after day.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:There is, it's called being gate keeped out of being able to even play the content. Which the """veterans""" are content on doing, even if it means the destruction of their own game to the point where they need to quit and move onto another game(Where btw, they'll be gate keeped out of!)

Speaking as an experienced raider and a guild leader...

Clear raids =/= learning raids.

I want my raid clears to have experienced people. Granted I do not ask for LI requirements because I find they do not matter much, but I expect a decent performance from everyone who join an exp run. An experienced clear run is fast, efficient, and should clear the bosses in a few attempts in worst scenario.

TRAINING raids are for the inexperienced, and I would make a separate group for those, preparing myself mentally to wipe a lot and help sort out builds and compositions.

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@Tails.9372 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:the existence of such players is the reason for having requirements in the first place.No, the fact that the performance (or better lack thereof) of a part of the group can have profound impact on the progression speed / success of the content in question is why people put up requirements. No one cares about carrying others in OW metas as long as it goes "smooth enough". The same would also be true for FS if it weren't for the BB on the last part and instanced content in general.

Not always true. If the only players that joined experienced runs were actually experienced then you wouldn't need to put up "250 Li requirements". If I made a LFG listing of "quick Strike Mission full clear" and got only players that are experienced enough with all Strike Missions to make the run quick, then there would be no need to gate keep players with ridiculous LI and KP requirements. But a lot of players either overestimate their abilities (thinking that they are masters when they are not) or know their abilities are lacking but still want to enter experienced runs for the quick and easy rewards. Further complicating things is the ability to get "fake" LI, either by managing to fake inside a run and not get noticed, or by buying a kill, which leads to further inflated LI requirements.

Would we need "250 LI req" if it was impossible to get LI in less than standard ways? I think not. Furthermore, to address the topic, there is no "LI equivalent" for Strike Missions, if there was there would be no (or maybe less) "LI requirements" and instead ask for Strike Mission KP.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:The "experienced" player pool shrinks every single day. If you do not allow more players to reach the "experienced" level you eventually run out of people to play with and your game is dead.

You are absolutely right about allowing more players to reach the "experienced" level. I've taught many players on how to run the harder content in the game. I'm willing and always run raids with newbies, to show them what raiding is all about and give them access to the legendary armor. However, they are always part of one of my guilds. And I'm willing to believe that most of these "evil experienced players" are doing the same. Especially for content like Strike Missions, which most of them are really easy, I wonder why not more guilds are making guild runs with them. Why does this game have the expectation of doing everything in random groups instead of grouping up with your guild members?

Edit: at this point I believe the problem isn't with requirements or experienced players gate keeping others, but rather guilds being glorified chat rooms.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:I just can't believe there is another thread on this.

As long there are people that try to cut themselves off from the vast majority via requirements, these threads will never stop.

As long as people want to leech off others instead of doing content with their own guild members these threads will never stop. If you cannot find enough players in your guild to do a Strike Mission, then you need a better guild.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:As long as people want to leech off others instead of doing content with their own guild members these threads will never stop.Leeching off of others isn't good either.But I always list my own groups with my own requirements (which most of the time don't exist), so there is no leeching that could be complained about.My squads usually ended as merry come-togethers from average players that knew the mechanics to some extent and were fairly successful at doing them, with maybe the occasional one or two higher skilled players. But I can't remember anyone complaining about leeches.

If you cannot find enough players in your guild to do a Strike Mission, then you need a better guild.While I haven't had a guild for months and completed the Steel Warband weapon collections without major issues, I agree that being in guilds can be useful for completing group content.However, my last guild ended up being not too focused on multiplayer activities, so there is no guarantee that everyone suddenly has more success in Strike Missions, just because they join a guild. But that usually depends on the guild, as well as the players' behaviours.

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@tim.4596 said:Raids in GW2 are very good, especially compared to WoW, they don't have a proper release pattern.no, this is absolutist different concept. In wow I with 2-5 members can close ANY big raid, if it obsolete. So we do raids as dominate vs npc. And ofc we not go in last raid till next patch.In gw2 all raid mostly a same. The not obsolete by difficulty. So the Li here still have value.But I know people who do only escort every week last 3 years. Some people do only escort and only river. So the Li value also not can grant some magic skill.All that we can get - some small hope that this person not stand in red rings.

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@Fueki.4753 said:While I haven't had a guild for months and completed the Steel Warband weapon collections without major issues, I agree that being in guilds can be useful for completing group content.However, my last guild ended up being not too focused on multiplayer activities, so there is no guarantee that everyone suddenly has more success in Strike Missions, just because they join a guild. But that usually depends on the guild, as well as the players' behaviours.

Yes, that should be one of the purposes of being in a guild but as I said in this game guilds are just chat rooms most of the time. Most Strike Missions are easily done by Guild groups, as easy as doing regular Guild Missions, and the last two Strike Missions also scale well with the amount of players.It's also worth noting that Raids were also supposed to be guild content, done by organized static teams and not pugs. Meaning if they went as expected, threads about requirements, friction and exclusions wouldn't exist about Raids either. But anyway this idea of running everything with randoms is what both kills Guilds (as anything more than chat rooms) and creates all this tension.

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