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Please stop asking LI for strike missions


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I don't generally do PvE, but this reminds me a bit of what happens in WvW squads sometimes where you "have to do this/that, runs such/so build" etc.My opinion?Make your own LFG for like-minded people. The small amount of time spent on the forum seems to indicate there's so many of the kind of players who think just like you.If I ever feel like doing Fractals but can't find a T4 group that's looking for what I play: I make my own LFG.Squad in WvW doesn't want me as a Thief main..? Well, kitten them I'll do my own thing.You are as much entitled to these demands not to do it, as they are to do demand them, lol.

Also, there's clearly a difference... If I run around in WvW with my guild (private tag, because no we don't want you around us) and we're about to jump into a 15v30 fight, but some pug comes around in our smokefields and gives our advantage away, yeah that's a good way for that 1 pug to spoil the fun of 15 others.Same thing for PvE I'd figure. You want people who know what they do, understandable, carrying dead weight is heavy work.You're fine with casuals who just want to have fun in their own way, understandable too.

You do you, nothing's stopping you in any part of this game to do what you want to do, the tools are there.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

If raids go non-existent I wouldn't care, they are not interested and are just a way for the "Elite" to kitten the E-kitten. The loot is garbo, the encounters are garbo and frankly Id rather them use the resources elsewhere for better content. Like a WvW overhaul or maybe like I don't know class balance? Stop wasting resources on an extremely niche game mode, and as seen strikes seem way more readily accessed by the community than raids do. But then.... that just might be because of the people within that section of the community? Who knows. If you want quality raiding WoW exists and that is ALL that game has been about and has been built from the ground up over the years to be master at raid encounters, Guild wars 2? Was never designed for such and shoe-horning it in was a mistake, one that continues to be wanked about even today as its population dwindles and continues to sink.

Sorry, but its a waste of precious developer time.

I dont care about gw2 raids in particular though ? The game is supposed to be easy. For quality raiding and tbh quality pve you join ffxiv.

I would sign up for deleting all pve support and reworking wvw and pvp.

This opinion doesn't change the fact that I rather play with raiders in strikes, cause they approach pve in a fashion that resembles my own approach to raids/strikes and bosses.

The community you like plays a difficulty of gaming where it's impossible to lose. Ofcourse they are gonna be happy and all inclusive. When stuff gets real and they can lose precious loot they get toxic and form communities (wurms/old chak/champ trains/marrionet/Halloween maze/sw).

Last week I made an all strikes everyone welcome, I did a few of those actually. People cannot even talk and say hi, if you like to play that way that's fine.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:There's a reason your game mode was abandoned by the developers, your dwindling player base wasn't worth their time and resources. You're just going to get strike missions abandoned next.If you need to depend on players actively trying to get more players into the content to keep the content populated, it's a problem with content design.

@Fueki.4753 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:I just can't believe there is another thread on this.

As long there are people that try to cut themselves off from the vast majority via requirements, these threads will never stop.That wouldn't have mattered if it was a content those other players could do on their own. You could then safely just ignore those groups with requirements with no problem.

Again, what you complain against is not caused by players. It's caused by content design.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:There's a reason your game mode was abandoned by the developers, your dwindling player base wasn't worth their time and resources. You're just going to get strike missions abandoned next.If you need to depend on players actively trying to get more players into the content to keep the content populated, it's a problem with
content
design.

@mindcircus.1506 said:I just can't believe there is another thread on this.

As long there are people that try to cut themselves off from the vast majority via requirements, these threads will never stop.That wouldn't have mattered if it was a content those other players could do on their own. You could then safely just ignore those groups with requirements with no problem.

Again, what you complain against is not caused by players. It's caused by content design.

So, if someone requires raid kill proofs for something like Whisper of Jormag, it's a problem of content design?I certainly don't think so. After all, whisper of Jormag is perfectly beatable with a bunch of average randoms, who likely never touched raids.

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@Fueki.4753 said:I certainly don't think so. After all, whisper of Jormag is perfectly beatable with a bunch of average randoms, who likely never touched raids.If you indeed believe this then there is nothing wrong with people asking for whatever they want for their squads. Because you are very able to start your own and beat the content.

Earlier in a super toxic post you wrote:

As long there are people that try to cut themselves off from the vast majority via requirements, these threads will never stop.If the content is beatable by a pug of ten randoms then there can be no one gatekeeping. This means that a 250 LI group is just people playing with like-minded folks. They aren't breaking ToS or even the spirit of the LFG tool. They are using the tool as intended.I mean you can keep up the threats of brigading (and actual brigading) all you like,but it seems rather pointless.Your own own admission guts any logic from it.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:So, if someone requires raid kill proofs for something like Whisper of Jormag, it's a problem of content design?I certainly don't think so. After all, whisper of Jormag is perfectly beatable with a bunch of average randoms, who likely never touched raids.They may have a chance, but i'd estimate that chance to be really low. Unless a lot of those "average randoms" aren't really average at all.Hint: average player dps in this fight means hitting enrage. And that's assuming noone dies, which, in case of average players, is also very unlikely.

Also, as the poster above me pointed out, if truly any group of "average randoms" could easily perfectly beat Whispers of Jormag, then requiring kill proofs for that fight by some players would definitely not be a problem. After all, you could always use the public queue for it, or make an all open LFG, and you'd still be able to make a kill as easily.

It's only a problem if you cannot realistically do that and hope to succeed. And that's not a problem with LFG requirements, but with the content itself.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:Earlier in a super toxic post you wrote:

As long there are people that try to cut themselves off from the vast majority via requirements, these threads will never stop.How is this even toxic in any way?By putting up those requirements, they express their explicit wish not to play with the vast majority effectively, trying to cut ties with said majority.

It's a fact that people will always continue to complain, as long as something exists.In this case, that something is top end players wanting to distance themselves from the average players.

If the content is beatable by a pug of ten randoms then there can be no one gatekeeping.My comment wasn't about gatekeeping at all.This means that a 250 LI group is just people playing with like-minded folks. They aren't breaking ToS or even the spirit of the LFG tool. They are using the tool as intended.I never even implied they are breaking any rules or other things.I mean you can keep up the threats of brigading (and actual brigading) all you like,but it seems rather pointless.You realize that a thread in a forum and a threat are entirely different things, right?

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:So, if someone requires raid kill proofs for something like Whisper of Jormag, it's a problem of content design?I certainly don't think so. After all, whisper of Jormag is perfectly beatable with a bunch of average randoms, who likely never touched raids.They may have a chance, but i'd estimate that chance to be really low. Unless a lot of those "average randoms" aren't really average at all.At least I assume that most of the people I did Whisper of Jormag with are average people, and all people I did strikes with were definitely random PUGs (to me).I possibly had the occassional top end player, but they weren't noticeable, as they didn't complain.

Also, as the poster above me pointed out, if truly any group of "average randoms" could easily perfectly beat Whispers of Jormag, then requiring kill proofs for thatfight by some players would definitely not be a problem. After all, you could always use the public queue for it, or make an all open LFG, and you'd still be able to make a kill as easily.

I never said anything about easy.However, most squads I opening for Whisper of Jormag finished within few tries.Although my usage of perfectly was wrong. I was thinking of the term perfectly fine, which is describing one being content with adequacy and mediocrity.

It's only a problem if you cannot realistically do that and hope to succeed.And I have a higher success rate than failure rate, without ever posting any requirements in the squads I opening.

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@Fueki.4753 said:And I have a higher success rate than failure rate, without ever posting any requirements in the squads I opening.That's only because a lot of the players you end up with are almost certainly on the level people asking for said requirements hope to get. And that only happens because most players that did not fit those requirements stopped trying to queue for Whisper already.

I have a lot of experience with running those types of content with both raid-capable and so-called average players, and i know exactly how big the difference is. So with a degree of certaintly i can tell you that:

  1. you won't get a group of average players through this strike without having at least one competent (meaning aboveaverage) healer. With some training you could have such group surviving up to chains, or even to bullet hell phase if you're lucky, but after that average players (and a lot of aboveaverage ones) would get downed left and right without a healer support. Some will get killed even with said support, unless you're running multiple healers. And there's a massive difference between an experienced healer and an average player running healer build.
  2. a group of random average players will get next to no boons (not only due to not having a good support players, but also by not staying consistently within boon range).
  3. a group consisting of average dps players is practically certain to hit enrage, even if noone will get downed.Add 1 to 2, and you get a situation where a grup of random average players is very unlikely to clear this content at all. Not without help from a significant number of well-above average players.The only reason i can see why your groups had better than 50% success rate is because you keep getting a significant number of experienced, above-average players in your squads. You should be aware, though, that those better players likely do most of the work here, while the rest are only getting carried.
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The most ridiculous thing is that you CAN clear Whisper with like 3-4 dps and bunch of tourists that do 0.5k dps. Personally I play for fun and often carry people on heal scourge.

LI req is good. It motivates people to get better. If whole strike LFG would be LI groups people would start to raid and building community around it again. Joining strikes as tourists and making 0.5k dps is just awful. Other day i had warrur that stated he would do 25k dps. Guess what? he done total of 0.8k dps.

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@"Yakez.7561" said:The most ridiculous thing is that you CAN clear Whisper with like 3-4 dps and bunch of tourists that do 0.5k dps. Personally I play for fun and often carry people on heal scourge.Indeed. The caveat , of course, is, that without those 3-4 experienced players the rest would not clear.

LI req is good. It motivates people to get better. If whole strike LFG would be LI groups people would start to raid and building community around it again.No, they would simply not join at all. Just like they did not join raids.

Joining strikes as tourists and making 0.5k dps is just awful. Other day i had warrur that stated he would do 25k dps. Guess what? he done total of 0.8k dps.I feel your pain. Although, that's actually well below average. An "average random" (say, a "veteran" bearbow) should do around 3-4k when alive.

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@Yakez.7561 said:LI req is good. It motivates people to get better.It motivates very, very small percentage of players.

If whole strike LFG would be LI groups people would start to raid and building community around it again.People don't suddenly try to get better, just because some requirement is in the way of a small bit of content.If all the groups had requirements, people would simply stop doing Strike missions and do other content that doesn't have requirements.With the game gaining an even higher percentage of open-world-only players due to said requirements, the development would shift even further away from instanced content.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:So, if someone requires raid kill proofs for something like Whisper of Jormag, it's a problem of content design?No but depending on what the target audience is it can be a symptom of one e.g. let's say they introduce a new raid with the stated goal to make it "as accessible to the wider player base as possible" while also adding a challenge mode designed for "only the most hardcore players".

If, in this case, the average LFG pug for the "normal mode" would put up some KP requirements then this would be an strong indicator for the presence of some mechanics capable of turning the raid into a mess and therefore a failure to fulfill the initial premise.

However, for the challenge mode it would be the opposite. The lack of KP requirements for pugs would be an indicator for the content being to easy and thus failing its initial premise.

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@Fueki.4753 said:With the game gaining an even higher percentage of open-world-only players due to said requirements, the development would shift even further away from instanced content.

These people will never understand that all they're accomplishing with their gatekeeping is making ALL development stop on any type of instanced content. They're basically self-defeating.

@zombyturtle.5980 said:As long as players join groups and do 2-3k as a dps, I will keep putting requirements in my LFG.

If they ever stop, I will make all welcome groups, but I dont have much hope of that happening.

Anet had a chance to add recommended builds and gear sets when they added templates but they did not. Giving new players something to use would've helped a ton, as they'd be running a decent build and pulling at least 10k instead fo 2-3k.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:These people will never understand that all they're accomplishing with their gatekeeping is making ALL development stop on any type of instanced content. They're basically self-defeating.

Having multiple
difficulty options
could easily solve this
kill proof
situation.It depends, if the lower difficulties allow you to still work towards whatever the long term goal of the content in question is (even if it's in a slower but still reasonable pace) then yes. Otherwise: no. If you can only progress though the "hard mode" then people would just ignore the lower difficulties (maybe playing it once for the story) and try to join hard runs leading to the same situation we have rn.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:With the game gaining an even higher percentage of open-world-only players due to said requirements, the development would shift even further away from instanced content.

These people will never understand that all they're accomplishing with their gatekeeping is making ALL development stop on any type of instanced content. They're basically self-defeating.

They already stopped making any decent challenging content. As far as im concerned its already dead. Strikes are only worth it to me if I can do them in under 30mins (full clear) as the rewards arent that good. In order to have a decent chance of that I need to put requirements in my LFG.

Id rather just not bother with strikes at all, ever, if I was forced to run all welcome groups all the time. I imagine most people who raid or do fractal CM's wouldn't bother with it either if they had to take inexperienced players on every run. it would kill off the content much much faster than any requirements have done.

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"Proof Kill requirement is bad, instead you are required to carry".The KP requirement "problem" doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is there because some people outright lie about their experience, skill or knowledge of fight mechanics and end up being a waste of time for other players.

I never put any KP requirement but typically, when you advertise for T4 fractals, there is an implicit requirement: have 150 AR.Even then it's not always respected, or you have people who have no clue about what aoe and dodge mean and will get in contact with whatever is red and get downed 10 times a minute (looking at you, Bloomhunger), something you should have learned in T2 or T3.Well sorry but after spending half an hour rezing the same people, it sometimes makes me want to add a KP req.

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@Fueki.4753 said:So, if someone requires raid kill proofs for something like Whisper of Jormag, it's a problem of content design?

I'm pretty sure it's not too difficult to open your own group, so you are forced to join existing ones, even if they post requirements you don't like.So why instead whine here about the requirements posted in other player's lfgs?

Either the content feels completely undoable even after you tried it again and again and you really need help. Then it's a problem of content design.

Or you simply can't be bothered to form your own group and pull your weight but still feel entitled to the rewards and want to be carried. Then it's indeed a player problem! But definitely not a problem caused by the people posting li requirements...

As long as your own group (with all the requirements you want or a complete lack of any) is only one click away, but people still cry about other's requirements instead of just doing their own group, there simply is no third option that makes any sense:Either the designers completely missed their goal and made it far too difficult for the majority of players or (at least a bunch of very vocal) players nowadays are just spoiled and should really think about their sense of entitlement.

The cynic in me thinks he knows the answer but as none of the whiners will ever admit it might be their own fault... yes, it must be a problem of content design! :-D

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@maddoctor.2738 said:How exactly?The average players could do the easier option and enjoy it without any requirements.Meanwhile, the top end players could stick to their requirements and do the harder options with other top players.

@Ooops.8694 said:I'm pretty sure it's not too difficult to open your own group, so you are forced to join existing ones, even if they post requirements you don't like.It's not too difficult, but some people seem to have an aversion against opening groups, thinking they'd have to take on a leading role.When I open my LFGs, I (almost) never assume such a role though.

So why instead whine here about the requirements posted in other player's lfgs?Some people believe that complaining enough on the forums will actually cause Arenanet to do something about the situation.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:The average players could do the easier option and enjoy it without any requirements.Meanwhile, the top end players could stick to their requirements and do the harder options with other top players.

So it wouldn't fix the kill proof situation as the "average player" would still not get the kill proof to join the actual group they are missing access to at this point. Only play a different version of the content with different mechanics and different rewards. Not addressing the "kill proof situation" the least bit. It's like saying having multiple tiers in Fractals means there are no groups with requirements on T4 which is obviously false. And since this is a topic about Strike Missions, do we really need an easier version of Shiverpeak Pass?

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:The average players could do the easier option and enjoy it without any requirements.Meanwhile, the top end players could stick to their requirements and do the harder options with other top players.

So it wouldn't fix the kill proof situation as the "average player" would still not get the kill proof to join the actual group they are missing access to at this point. Only play a different version of the content with different mechanics and different rewards. Not addressing the "kill proof situation" the least bit. It's like saying having multiple tiers in Fractals means there are no groups with requirements on T4 which is obviously false.

The easy mode could still reward kill proof, albeit less then harder modes.So people could still accumulate and eventually join the parties that require it.

And since this is a topic about Strike MissionsSince this thread is about raid kill proof, this thread is not restricted to Strike Missions.

do we really need an easier version of Shiverpeak Pass?Boneskinner could use an easier mode, while Shiverpeaks Pass could use a harder mode.

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