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Which professions go best thematically with which races?

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  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2020

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Drizzt.1796 said:

    @assasin oates.3018 said:
    There was plenty of none human Mesmers in GW1...

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    I think the only two professions that make a difference are Mesmer and Engineer.

    The first is a type of magic used only by humans, the only non-human Mesmer that I remember is Faolain, it does not seem to me that there were other Mesmer sylvari.

    The engineer is a profession developed by Iron Legion, but I think that unlike Mesmer over time it has been possible for other races to learn this profession, the Watchknight are an example.

    Um... in the Sylvari pesronal story the Order of Whispers contact is a Sylvari mesmer who had been working on an illusion spell for a while. There is a Norn mesmer who randomly appears near the Priory at times as an event. There is an evil Norn mesmer who spawns in snowden drifts. GW1 had dwarf, Forgotton, Charr, Mursaat, Margonite, Tengu mesmers.

    There are tons of Mesmers across all races.

    Theres also Goemm the Mad who is an asura.

    I correct myself guys, it's mainly used by humans, I think it's okay now. :)

    I don't think it's even mainly used by humans.
    While the most prominent and arguably most powerful Mesmers are humans, there numbers are mainly concentrated among their mobility.
    I think Mesmers in other races (except maybe Sylvari) are at least equal in numbers, especially in Norn society.
    Raven, of the four remaining Great Spirits, is probably equal to the Twin goddess Lyssa, when it comes to be an entity of Mesmer worship.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I don't think it's even mainly used by humans.
    While the most prominent and arguably most powerful Mesmers are humans, there numbers are mainly concentrated among their mobility.
    I think Mesmers in other races (except maybe Sylvari) are at least equal in numbers, especially in Norn society.
    Raven, of the four remaining Great Spirits, is probably equal to the Twin goddess Lyssa, when it comes to be an entity of Mesmer worship.

    Ash uses plenty of them, I doubt their stealth is purely tech.

    No race truly holds a majority count of any of the classes really.

  • Randin.5701Randin.5701 Member ✭✭

    I did a rundown on the Charr a little ways back in this thread, and since I'm currently playing through on a Norn alt, I thought I'd run through the classes with them:

    Norn are a race of burly giants that want to gain renown and glory in battle; Warrior is obviously a very good fit for them.

    The hunt's a central part of their culture, so likewise Rangers are also going to be very common.

    With the veneration of legendary ancestors being such a big part of their religion, the Norn actually feel by far like the most natural fit for the Revenant of all the playable races.

    Amongst the Raven-focused Norn, I imagine you'd find a reasonable number of Necromancers and Elementalists; not enough to actually call them "common" in Norn culture, but there nonetheless.

    I feel like Guardian doesn't really have anything in its favor of showing up amongst the Norn, but also nothing really working against it, so toss it also into the category of "not common, but also not rare."

    Thief is a class built around stealth and extreme agility, neither of which really screams "Norn", so I'm inclined to call it rare.

    The Norn are also one of the less techy races, so I'm going to say that Engineers are rare as well.

    And Mesmer just doesn't feel very "Norn" to me either, so they also go in the "rare" pile.

  • Kosmo.3468Kosmo.3468 Member ✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    As the most "fitting" goes:
    Warrior: All races. Anyone that can swing a piece of metal is a warrior in my eyes.
    Guardian: Norn and Human.
    Revenant: All races. According to the lore.
    Ranger: Sylvari and Norn.
    Thief: Human.
    Engineer: Charr. (don't even try to put asurans in this category).
    Necro: Asuran, Sylvari and Human.
    Elementalist: Asuran, Sylvari and Human.
    Mesmer: Asuran, Sylvari and Human.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    My thoughts on this:

    Asura: Engineer, Elementalist, Necromancer
    Asura are the most technologically advanced race in Tyria, so building gadgets and doohickeys is second nature for them (As well as a favourite of the Inquest...)
    They also have close ties to the natural ley lines across Tyria, making them adept at channeling magic (It's the basis of Waypoints, being on top of ley lines) and is likely one of the ways they managed to survive underground before having to emerge in the wake of Primordus.
    Necromancy is stated to be very similar to Golemancy and is a field studied by a number of asurans.

    Charr: Warrior, Engineer, Ranger, Revenant
    The playable charr are a military focused race, it is what their entire culture is based around. As such, being Warriors is pretty much the first thing they're taught.
    Charr also love to build things. Things that make stuff go boom. Ergo, Engineer is a good fit for them.
    Despite their industrial focus, charr do still keep in mind the land and animals around them. Farming is a big part of their infrastructure (Also a source of many, many, tedious hearts...) as is their companionship with Devourers which they use to help them fight.
    Rytlock being the first Revenant and being forced into teaching other charr about the magic, gives them an affinity for the profession. This is aided by their reverence for notable legends (Such as Kalla)

    It's notable that Ohlmakan charr seem to have an affinity for Elementalism, with less focus on military (They don't raise their young in farrars) as well as having a culture more focused on spirituality and the power of nature (Even their young can channel elemental minions to fight).

    Human: Guardian, Elementalist, Mesmer, Engineer, Warrior, Thief
    Religion is a heavy focus of humans, making them have strong conviction and idealized virtues to live up to.
    They also have a number of scholars that research elemental magics (Which makes Elementalists fairly prominent especially in the White Mantle)
    Many notable humans are also powerful Mesmers, with also Lyssa herself using powerful illusion magic.
    While not quite as industrious as charr or asura, humans still have their fair share of technology throughout the world. Cannons, ships... That wierd orchestra machine...
    Followers of Balthazar lean towards a path of war, as well as their fairly sizable military force.
    The poorer class of humans will find themselves pushed towards thievery as a means of survival, with some taking it further and joining with one of the groups of bandits that exist throughout Kryta.

    Norn: Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, Revenant, Mesmer, Elementalist
    Norn culture is very much focused on preservation of the land as well as hunting (But only for dangerous creatures and just enough food) with a deep connection with creatures of the wild thanks to the Spirits (Heck, they can even BECOME animals their ties are that strong)
    They like to be strong and be able to fight for glory which makes Warrior a defacto profession for them.
    They respect and idolize legends, taking on positive characteristics to try and become a worthy legend themselves. This is exacerbated when it also involves carrying on a family members legacy, where they want to live up to the person that their parent(s) were. This gives them ideal virtues to live by, as well as a strong connection to the spirits of the legends in the mists. Further to this, they have an affinity for the mists due to havrouns using them to converse with the spirits, with some norn dedicating their lives to protecting the mists from those that would seek to harm the spirits (I.e. Sons of Svanir)
    Raven seeks to open norn's minds to the world around them, giving them an affinity for magic and a desire to learn, making magical professions like Mesmer or Elementalist a strong possibility.

    Sylvari: Ranger, Guardian, Warrior, Thief
    Sylvari have close ties to nature... This gives them a unique insight into the land and creatures that inhabit it enabling them to more easily befriend creatures.
    Some sylvari have a reverence for the Pale Tree and/or Ventari's teachings, both of which give them some idealized virtues to live by.
    As dragon minions, the sylvari should have sufficient capabilities for martial fighting. Add in the events that occurred when they were initially born where their naivety put them at risk against predators and they would likely have quickly adapted to fighting in order to defend themselves.
    Sylvari seem to be quite agile, as well as becoming aware that there are those in the world that would seek to harm them for no good reason, it thus stands that they have an affinity for moving through the shadows which is a useful skill for thievery.

    Cat: Meow.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    Humans probably don't have a single revenant right now in the cannon, I doubt they would either. They don't care about such trifling things and from the previous entry and even in this game they are VERY skitish about the mists. To them its not to be tampered with, and I doubt a human would willingly channel shiro, mallyx, ventari or kalla or even glint because to them they ALL represent enemies of their race. They are very, very, very no-go with anything to go with that or anything that can't be linked to their petty gods..

    Glints literally considered a champion of the gods and widely adored by the human population, both Zephyrite and mainline humans. Kasmeer even went out of her way to mention how human children were told stories of Glints greatness and her love of humanity when she was young. Glint and the Forgotten tested humans, and indeed killed many humans while testing them for Ascension, but the word test is the key here and if a human was to become a Rev they would attach to Glint immediately.

    That's besides the fact that Revs are in many ways just a evolution of human ritualism and thus, ironically, they have the most lore connecting to Revs down to the blindfolds, they aren't two different animals at all. In fact they are so closely linked that the pvp title for Rev is 'Ritualist.' Rytlock being exposed to Glints teachings brought the profession over to what we know in modern Tyria, but considering the fact humans connect with the Mists constantly(See: the Church of Grenth in it's entirety, which literally opens portals to the underworld on top of mass graves to talk to the dead.) the notion that humans are even remotely skittish about mist energy is largely off base. If anything humans are the most likely to pick it up and Rytlock would be the exception to the rule, as a matter of fact Anets even commented on how weird it is for Rytlock to touch magic considering the Charr largely dislike sorcery outside of Flame.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2020

    @Loesh.4697 said:
    That's besides the fact that Revs are in many ways just a evolution of human ritualism

    How exactly?
    The original concept was that Revenants channel the memories of legends in the mists, into their bodies, but not the souls of the dead themselves.
    Revenants didn't even use to hear the voices of the Legendary characters. And it shouldn't have implemented in the first place, as it ruined the concept.

    Ritualists summoning the spirits of the dead, outside of their bodies no less, is the direct opposite of what Revenants originally did.
    Binding Ghosts is but a fraction of what Ritualists could do anyway.
    Do not forget about the Weapon Spells, Ashes, Enchantments and other things that made up a big amount of Ritualists' toolkit.

    Interacting with the Mists is the only common factor these two professions have.
    Since Rytlock no longer blindfolds himself, that common factor is out of the window.
    And that's only as long as you don't specify how they interact.

    You could make an argument about Renegades being closer to Ritualists, because they summon ghosts.
    However, that'd be like saying Druids are an evolution of Elementalists, because they use Glyphs.

    Revenant is far more Charr-centric than it is Human-centric.
    Rytlock and Gorea Halfcut are, according to the wiki, the only notable Revenants
    Both are Charr.
    Herald is, due to being directly connected to Rytlock, a Charr-centric elite specialization.
    Herald using Glint has no connection to the Flameseeker Prophecies or the Ascension.
    Renegade, due to channelling Kalla's (a Charr's) legend and summoning her Warband (all Charr), is a Charr-centric elite specialization.
    Jalis is a representative of the Legend of the great Dwarf, nothing human-centric there.
    Ventari seeked peace, not only with humans but with everything. Nothing human-centric there. Ventari is, due to his mechanic being his Tablet, closer the Sylvari than humans.
    Mallyx is a Demon. He can kinda be attributed to be humans, but only by the default of GW1 only having human player characters.
    Shiro is the only one that can be closely be attributed to humans, but even he wasn't much of a human for most of factions.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:
    That's besides the fact that Revs are in many ways just a evolution of human ritualism

    How exactly?
    The original concept was that Revenants channel the memories of legends in the mists, into their bodies, but not the souls of the dead themselves.
    Revenants didn't even use to hear the voices of the Legendary characters. And it shouldn't have implemented in the first place, as it ruined the concept.

    Ritualists summoning the spirits of the dead, outside of their bodies no less, is the direct opposite of what Revenants originally did.
    Binding Ghosts is but a fraction of what Ritualists could do anyway.
    Do not forget about the Weapon Spells, Ashes, Enchantments and other things that made up a big amount of Ritualists' toolkit.

    Interacting with the Mists is the only common factor these two professions have.
    Since Rytlock no longer blindfolds himself, that common factor is out of the window.
    And that's only as long as you don't specify how they interact.

    You could make an argument about Renegades being closer to Ritualists, because they summon ghosts.
    However, that'd be like saying Druids are an evolution of Elementalists, because they use Glyphs.

    Revenant is far more Charr-centric than it is Human-centric.
    Rytlock and Gorea Halfcut are, according to the wiki, the only notable Revenants
    Both are Charr.
    Herald is, due to being directly connected to Rytlock, a Charr-centric elite specialization.
    Herald using Glint has no connection to the Flameseeker Prophecies or the Ascension.
    Renegade, due to channelling Kalla's (a Charr's) legend and summoning her Warband (all Charr), is a Charr-centric elite specialization.
    Jalis is a representative of the Legend of the great Dwarf, nothing human-centric there.
    Ventari seeked peace, not only with humans but with everything. Nothing human-centric there. Ventari is, due to his mechanic being his Tablet, closer the Sylvari than humans.
    Mallyx is a Demon. He can kinda be attributed to be humans, but only by the default of GW1 only having human player characters.
    Shiro is the only one that can be closely be attributed to humans, but even he wasn't much of a human for most of factions.

    Saying that Herald being connected to Rytlock therefore makes it Charr centric is, on the best of the days, stretching things at best I think. Just because Rytlock happened to plop down in front of Glint in the Mists and learn from her does not mean that Charr are suddenly flocking to rev because they have for some reason abandoned their culture wide distrust of magic. I suspect the reason why the only two Revs in the game are Charr has less to do with population distribution and more due to the fact that Anet just doesn't add a ton of characters from the main professions with extensive backstories. Likely the only reason the second character we see is also a Charr is because the elite spec for that expansion was a Charr war hero, and it'd be kind of weird to have a Sylvari be the representative for that. Even then, Gora Halfcut is by her own admission an exile from a warband that failed who came to Elona for it's spiritual power, which puts her firmly at odds with Legion thinking much like Rytlock.

    Secondly, just because Rytlock no longer blinds himself kind of makes it hard not to notice the simple fact that blinding yourself makes it easier to focus on the voices and channel your power, it doesn't stop being a common thread between the two professions because you can operate it without the tool in question. It still works using a similar technique, therefore it's a shared trait regardless of whether you need to practice it to power up or not. Beyond that I wasn't even thinking of spirit binding, I was thinking of the Ashes that Ritualists use. The whole point of ashes was the fact that as long as you were holding them you were channeling their essence in a way not unlike channeling a legend by granting you a power corresponding to the ashes, in this way dropping the ashes is kind of like 'swapping out' of the Legend.

    Thirdly, while I think it's pretty silly not to associate a specialization tied to Glint with either the Flameseeker Prophecies or the Ascension as those were some of her most notable works, it's not even true mechanically. After you complete the trials of Ascension are still not granted an audience with Glint, the only way to see her? You must defeat the Facets that now compose the Revs skill bar, they even play the Guild Wars 1 crystal desert theme louder the more of them are active at once. It's a nice touch.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2020

    @Loesh.4697 said:
    Thirdly, while I think it's pretty silly not to associate a specialization tied to Glint with either the Flameseeker Prophecies or the Ascension as those were some of her most notable works, it's not even true mechanically. After you complete the trials of Ascension are still not granted an audience with Glint, the only way to see her? You must defeat the Facets that now compose the Revs skill bar, they even play the Guild Wars 1 crystal desert theme louder the more of them are active at once. It's a nice touch.

    Pray tell me, which part of the elite specialization is connected to either Ascension or the Flameseeker Prophecies?
    The Facets? Certainly not.
    Even if they are named after the bosses from The Dragon's lair in GW1, they are unrelated to ascension.
    The Shield? Other than The Flameseeker Prophecies being legendary shield, there is no connection.
    None of the traits are related either.

    Herald, in lore, only exists because Rytlock met her.
    And that's the only reason her Legend is used for the elite specialization.
    The abilities being named after the Facets is just a fanservicey throwback, just like the four core Legends.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:
    Thirdly, while I think it's pretty silly not to associate a specialization tied to Glint with either the Flameseeker Prophecies or the Ascension as those were some of her most notable works, it's not even true mechanically. After you complete the trials of Ascension are still not granted an audience with Glint, the only way to see her? You must defeat the Facets that now compose the Revs skill bar, they even play the Guild Wars 1 crystal desert theme louder the more of them are active at once. It's a nice touch.

    Pray tell me, which part of the elite specialization is connected to either Ascension or the Flameseeker Prophecies?
    The Facets? Certainly not.
    Even if they are named after the bosses from The Dragon's lair in GW1, they are unrelated to ascension.
    The Shield? Other than The Flameseeker Prophecies being legendary shield, there is no connection.
    None of the traits are related either.

    Herald, in lore, only exists because Rytlock met her.
    And that's the only reason her Legend is used for the elite specialization.
    The abilities being named after the Facets is just a fanservicey throwback, just like the four core Legends.

    Yeah no, the Facets that are in and of themselves a trial you have to go through to in order to see Glint as a final test are absolutely tied into Ascension, the entire process is pointless unless you go see her so they are in and of themselves part of the Ascendants arc. Heck, the Facets themselves are reflections of the power that the gods have harnessed: https://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/02/guild-wars-2-interview/

    Like you haven't actually given a reason why it's not related. You just say it's not related because...it's not? and that Herald is Charr centered because Rytlock was the first one who was taught and he happens to be a Charr? Despite the fact that literally this entire season is about how much of an outsider from Charr society Rytlock is and how his experience around other races has so radically changed his perception of his culture that at one point in his head he said that the High Legions could all burn to the ground.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loesh.4697 said:
    Yeah no, the Facets that are in and of themselves a trial you have to go through to in order to see Glint as a final test are absolutely tied into Ascension, the entire process is pointless unless you go see her so they are in and of themselves part of the Ascendants arc.

    The Ascension was completed prior to accessing the Dragon's lair.
    It was done by the three Trials of Ascensions (which have been mimicked in Living World Season 2) and then beating your Doppelgänger.
    So, the Ascension was finished prior to fighting any of the Facets.

    Like you haven't actually given a reason why it's not related. You just say it's not related because...it's not?

    How do you prove something is unrelated, when there literally is no connection?

    Rytlock was the first one who was taught

    It's not that he was the first. It's that, according to lore, he is the only one.
    And since he is the only one, it makes Herald center around [one] Charr by default.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:
    Yeah no, the Facets that are in and of themselves a trial you have to go through to in order to see Glint as a final test are absolutely tied into Ascension, the entire process is pointless unless you go see her so they are in and of themselves part of the Ascendants arc.

    The Ascension was completed prior to accessing the Dragon's lair.
    It was done by the three Trials of Ascensions (which have been mimicked in Living World Season 2) and then beating your Doppelgänger.
    So, the Ascension was finished prior to fighting any of the Facets.

    Like you haven't actually given a reason why it's not related. You just say it's not related because...it's not?

    How do you prove something is unrelated, when there literally is no connection?

    Rytlock was the first one who was taught

    It's not that he was the first. It's that, according to lore, he is the only one.
    And since he is the only one, it makes Herald center around [one] Charr by default.

    Again, because the entire purpose of ascending to begin with was in part to see and talk to Glint, which ties it into both the Flameseeker Prophecies and the Trial of Ascension by default. It's like saying your final exam is unrelated to all your previous tests because it's on a separate piece of paper.

    As for Herald, nowhere in lore is it stated that Rytlock is the only Herald anymore then then Braham is the only Dragonhunter, there's a reason it's playable by the PC. Characters are not all that their classes are and vice versa.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    Again, because the entire purpose of ascending to begin with was in part to see and talk to Glint,

    The purpose of the Ascension was to gain the Gift of True Sight, which allows people to see the Mursaat, whom would have been invisible otherwise.
    Just because we visit Glint right afterwards doesn't mean Ascension was an requirement.
    Ascension isn't even mentioned on her official GW1 wiki page.

    As for Herald, nowhere in lore is it stated that Rytlock is the only Herald anymore then then Braham is the only Dragonhunter,

    There is no other NPC that is a Herald, which effectively means for the lore, he is the only one.

    there's a reason it's playable by the PC.

    Player characters have no profession in regards to lore.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Human female: Everything

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    Again, because the entire purpose of ascending to begin with was in part to see and talk to Glint,

    The purpose of the Ascension was to gain the Gift of True Sight, which allows people to see the Mursaat, whom would have been invisible otherwise.
    Just because we visit Glint right afterwards doesn't mean Ascension was an requirement.
    Ascension isn't even mentioned on her official GW1 wiki page.

    As for Herald, nowhere in lore is it stated that Rytlock is the only Herald anymore then then Braham is the only Dragonhunter,

    There is no other NPC that is a Herald, which effectively means for the lore, he is the only one.

    there's a reason it's playable by the PC.

    Player characters have no profession in regards to lore.

    Yeah no, we explicitly went to the Crystal Desert in part to also talk to Glint because this whole process of killing the Mursaat is because of the prophecy she created that involved us directly, the Gift of True Sight would be for naught otherwise. In her words, there are things we must know, and others we must learn upon our journey, at which point she promptly takes us to the Shiverpeak Mountains via a portal. It's not an optional mission, it's part of the main plot and the fulfilling of the Flameseeker Prophecies.

    As for your second point, that's just plain silly. Anet would of introduced them as a class to play if it were not possible for other people to become one. There are NPC exclusive professions like Dervish and Paragon in PoF, this isn't one of them.

  • Kosmo.3468Kosmo.3468 Member ✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Human female: Everything

    get out.

  • Tuna Bandit.3786Tuna Bandit.3786 Member ✭✭✭

    Norns are hunters. Therefor Ranger
    Asura are intelligent, therefor engineer
    Char are warriors, so... warrior.
    Those 3 races have a direct relation to a class.
    Humans and Sylvari not so much I think

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Obviously, a good RP idea can make any race work with any class. But some combinations do seem to come more naturally than others.

    Ranger: Sylvari (obviously), Human (Melandru), Charr (Blood Legion was the first to tame devourers), Norn (hunters of legend), Asura (they love their dancing moas).

    Engineer: Charr (they invented the profession), Asura (they love to tinker).

    Thief: Sylvari (Night Bloom), Human (lower class + circus = daredevil), Norn (Snow Leopard), Charr (Ash Legion).

    Necro: Human (Grenth), Charr (Ash Legion has a long history with necros), Norn (Raven), Asura (Oola, Synergetics, etc.).

    Mesmer: Asura (Synergetics experimenting with reality), Human (Lyssa, Jennah, Anise, Kasmeer...), Norn (Raven).

    Elementalist: Charr (Flame Legion shamanism), Asura (Magic + Explosions = MAGIC EXPLOSIONS!).

    Warrior: Every race has its grunts. Pick your poison.

    Guardian: Asura (they like magic with their melee), Human (gods), Sylvari (idealistic defenders following Ventari's code).

    Revenant: Asura (quick to study a weird new form of magic), Human (gods, connections with history and the Mists, etc.), Norn (Raven, legends, defending the Mists).

    Thank you. One of the best summarizations.

    I also use these ideas in my role play
    Norn Wolf shamans fit guardian theme. Protect the pack.
    Norn Bear shamans fit warrior theme. “Strength of Bear!”
    Also, Trahearne is a Necro Sylvari.
    And you covered this but I like the Asura personal story to help pick my role play/profession. Golem=engineer, Weather control device=elementalist and time travel device=chronomancer.
    And finally I think Sylvari “the dream” / nightmare lends to Mesmer.