What makes a bad raid / strike commander?

[Melech.4308]

I'm curious to know what other people's experiences are when it comes to bad raid / strike commanders. It doesn't matter if it's a training group, a static, or the usual pug. If you pick "others" in the poll, please share your story.,

[TPMN.1483]

Not sure where this survey is going or why pick on bad raid/strike commanders.

Isn’t it better to focus on what makes a ‘good commander’?

Other:The commanders role is more team management, morale and organisation a central focus for the group. With the difficult job of often making hard and unpopular decisions.

[maddoctor.2738]

Since you included:

It doesn't matter if it's a training group, a static, or the usual pug. If you pick "others" in the poll, please share your story.,None of what you offered makes a bad commander because a bad commander depends on whether it's a training group, a static or a pug

[Melech.4308]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Since you included:

It doesn't matter if it's a training group, a static, or the usual pug. If you pick "others" in the poll, please share your story.,None of what you offered makes a bad commander because a bad commander depends on whether it's a training group, a static or a pug

I have seen both good and bad commanders in pugs and training groups, but okay, for the sake of argument let us go with what you said; are all pug commanders automatically bad commanders and all static and training commanders automatically good commanders?

[maddoctor.2738]

@Melech.4308 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Since you included:

It doesn't matter if it's a training group, a static, or the usual pug. If you pick "others" in the poll, please share your story.,None of what you offered makes a bad commander because a bad commander depends on whether it's a training group, a static or a pug

I have seen both good and bad commanders in pugs and training groups, but okay, for the sake of argument let us go with what you said; are all pug commanders automatically bad commanders and all static and training commanders automatically good commanders?

What I meant is in a training group Having a friend that doesn't know the mechanics is not a bad thing because it's a training. Same with the commander failing the mechanics.

Meanwhile in a static group that fills their last few spots, asking for "ridiculous amounts of LI" isn't a bad thing either. Or not meeting your own requirements.

In a pug squad saying "I'm the commander, I makes the rules! If you don't like it, leave the squad!" is not a bad thing and within the job description of being a commander.

So what you have in your poll can be bad things in one case, but not bad things in another.

[Eramonster.2718]

Think what maddoctor.2738 trying to say is the answers can change depending on the situation. And what OP wanted to know is players bad experiences with commanders.

I'm curious to know what other people's experiences are when it comes to bad raid / strike commanders. I̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶i̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶,̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶t̶i̶c̶,̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶u̶g̶. If you pick "others" in the poll, please share your story.Might help to focus more on exp than comparing.

[Dadnir.5038]

I agree with TPMN, poor team management is what make a bad commander. Not strict enough and you'll have never ending boring wait between try. Not patient enough and you'll just have raid member in bad mood not giving their all. Not fair enough and the group will just scatter due to people not always being at the same "level" of performance.

A good commander is the link that bring everyone together before being the one that coordinate it's teammates.

[Lexi.1398]

In the interest of not voting other... admittedly ive only experienced this twice while pugging, and both times it was extremely annoying, especially as one of those times the "getting carried" person didn't even perform their build correctly (i mean, i don't expect someone who doesn't know mechanics to get 10k+ in the last phase, but i do expect a 20k+ opener EVERYWHERE? theres no mechanics at that point...:/ ).

I've never seen a kp/li requirement that was ridiculous IMO, but i have seen a lot of groups who either ask for more kp than the group has/call themselves experienced when they're not. If its labelled as an exp group i expect the boss to die in 2 pulls, and i expect a maximum of 2 failures of minor-wont-wipe-the-group mechanics. if you're a group who has killed the boss before and everyone knows the mechanics but you can't get close to a kill in 2 pulls then you are not experienced, you are semi-experienced and practicing, so dont be surprised if all the pugs you get are salty. I find this especially annoying in groups i go in who formed outside of LFG and pug for fills- but the commander of that group advertises a higher requirement than /i/ have without conferring with anyone in the group. It makes me feel bad, especially as i can always see it coming when pugs with the same mentality as i do come in, see us wipe, and then my freinds complain about it as if they should have expected anything else...

Definitely up there i dislike commanders who don't really understand raid compositions/tactics properly. Like- VG is renowned as a training boss because it is mechnaically complex, but isn't very punsihing...IF you do greens. If you do no greens you must be an experienced group, and it will not be training-friendly because 80% of the time if someone fails a mechanic they'll die to green while downed. The SC compositions are based on speedrunning strats, as are some of their guides, they shouldn't be blindly followed without understanding why. For example - cairn is commonly called a "condi" boss, but this isn't really true. Cairn is a mirage boss, and if you can't play mirage then which build you have you perform best on (that has no reflects) is the better option- infact, specifically for cairn, i can also mention that cairn is the hardest fight to mirage on due to it's movement abilities requiring much more class knowledge AND mechanical awareness (axe 3 into tp/axe 2 into agony is the bane of mirages) than playing almost anything else at cairn. It is for that reason I always suggest to people who can play mirage, not to if it's a training run (ofc, if its not a training run i don't care.) If a commmander insists on something "because SC does it" without understanding that for example, out group dps is too low for that stategy, i don't care for that commander.

Most of all i hate tolerating bad attitudes by anyone, but if the commander has a bad attitude i just leave the squad, no matter how justified i think or don't think that bad attitude is. Relatedly, if you didn't advertise a group as experienced (or it was advertised with low kp), then don't be surprised when people mess up.

[Tsan.6431]

Other : Players, commander or not.

[LadyKitty.6120]

Kitty's known to get annoyed and RQ really easily when she's on bad mood. Usually it's either herself being petty or there's an issue about squad/commander.But here's some things that make Kitty RQ or not to join the squad to begin with:-People causing wipes and commander refusing to replace them (usually combined with "commander wants a friend carried"). Also pretty much same as comm advertising a wipesome squad as "exp". Kitty avoids semi-exp like plague as those wipe more than trainings-Commander clearly not knowing their stuff and throwing an attitude if you try to give tips on what support needs to bring (note: Kitty means the usual boons which can be provided by multitude of classes). Kitty friggin hates when commander puts power dpsers in same sub as staff tempest/heal scourge and says "no, you're pure dps" when Kitty suggests she could play might/furybot/dps to make sure everyone is properly booned.-Commander insisting on a certain comp and wants to spend half an hour in LFG to search for it while you've offered to play an almost-as-efficient alternative support/tank so comm can just LFG for dps (every class is capable of bringing full might for 5 at least and Kitty likes to offer them but commanders are damn insisting on druid-druid-druid even for boonthief bosses and CHRONOtank for every tankable boss)-Commander insisting on condi dps for Cairn or power dps for VG. They do have some advantage but that doesn't mean a good power/condi dps is useless for those. They do have a disadvantage but that just requires compensating thru skill (though not everyone can pull that off). One of Kitty's favourite hobbies is outdpsing mirages as power dps on mirage-preferring bosses.-"400 LI or kick. Ping them now!" People have a weird fixation on LI/KP. Especially in w1-4 that doesn't usually tell anything about real skill level. On EU this is very pronounced with ridiculous requirements compared to skill level and Kitty's seen way too many 400LI squads disband after wiping to MO 3 times in W4 clear. Kitty hasn't had that kind of issue on NA...though NA's LFG is really dead these days. Nonetheless, "know your stuff or kick" -comms are usually best.-Commander insisting on SC strat though squad isn't clearly competent enough to pull it off. Happens especially in Deimos melee and MO solo druid.

[Lurana.7506]

A bad commander is a toxic commander. Most other things can be tolerated (in certain situations). For example the commander may fail a mechanic but in a training or low LI run it doesn't mean they are a bad commander. It happens and maybe they started a training to train a new role themselves. Telling someone "I am the commander, I make the rules!" may be needed sometimes. The squad needs to have one strategy but sometimes there a people telling the commander "do this, do that" even when everyone else decided on a certain strategy (had this myself a few times).But being toxic is the worst thing a commander can be. Even if there are good reasons to being grumpy, e.g. if someone without any LI joins a fast clear, a commander needs to stay calm. In my experience most people don't do this by purpose but because they don't know. So the commander can ask them to leave and explain things.

[Fenom.9457]

What’s repeatedly killed my attempts to go deeper into raiding is toxicity and extreme requirements in terms of kp to even get in. And before you tell me you can do training groups, I know that - but those runs take even longer and often don’t result in any kills since they’re training - thus you don’t get more kp to show and don’t get any closer to being able to raid to actually kill the boss

[Aaron Forestman.4758]

I'm a big believer in leading by example. The commander doesn't necessarily have to be top dps, but should know the mechanics very well and very rarely make any major mistakes.

Additionally, a great commander knows what they're doing well enough to be able to pay more attention to what the other players are doing and potential areas in which they can improve instead of needing to tunnel-vision on their own build.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Fenom.9457 said:What’s repeatedly killed my attempts to go deeper into raiding is toxicity and extreme requirements in terms of kp to even get in. And before you tell me you can do training groups, I know that - but those runs take even longer and often don’t result in any kills since they’re training - thus you don’t get more kp to show and don’t get any closer to being able to raid to actually kill the boss

If you are serious about raiding, the best approach here is to find a as static as possible group. That does not mean a full static group, though that would be most efficient, but something like a guild or a discord server with returning regular players.

The biggest gap after taking the initial step of joining training runs is improving past the training run stage where you are stuck in constant random PUG training groups. Rhis cam be achieved via PUG groups, but will take time, patience and a lot of hard work. It's a lot easier with other players who improve along side one.

As to the topic at hand, it depends on what the set goal is, and how much the group wants to succeed.

Based on that, a good commander has to:

• ensure the squad is successful (either in killing the boss, or improving)
• cover the squads necessities (boons, healing, utility, etc.)
• if in training, be good enough to understand and help weaker players of the squad
• ideally remain calm and focused
• make necessary hard decisions and calls

[Cyndercat.7615]

For me I cant stand commanders who are totally unorganized and cant even put together a squad with the needed roles for the boss. Tilts me more than anything else.

[Juan.6124]

@"ArthurDent.9538" i'd really like to know why out of all these options you picked "not providing food".

[Mourningstar.7309]

This applies to strikes more than raids (I only ever raid with a statics), but the comms that make no attempt at filling different roles, or not shuffling people into subs to ensure proper boon coverage.

[Cynder.2509]

A shame that we can't chose multiple sections in a poll because these apply:"Commander doesn't know / fails the mechanicsCommander doesn't meet his/her own kp/li requirementsCommander's DPS is too lowHas a friend who doesn't know mechanics but expects the group to carry friend"

And also this applies:"Commander doesn't know about Meta compositions such as from snowcrows and let's even shitty bearbows (or rangers in general) and other useless noob classes join"and"Commander can't organize a decent group to kill it quick and only delays it further when speedclear groups could have done this more than 5 times in that time"C'mon! Raids aren't hard. They're actually too easy even with CMs compared to raids of other games. This whole game isn't hard! Just git gud and everything's fine. ;)

Also, I don't know why this is an option but the comm doesn't need to provide food. You should know for yourself what food/enhancements to use if you're joining a raid. The comm doesn't need to babysit you and take you by the hand! Pay your own gold, get your own stuff! It has been like that before this shitty chef update came. People are just lazy omg!

[Melech.4308]

@"Cynder.2509" said:A shame that we can't chose multiple sections in a poll because these apply:"Commander doesn't know / fails the mechanicsCommander doesn't meet his/her own kp/li requirementsCommander's DPS is too lowHas a friend who doesn't know mechanics but expects the group to carry friend"

And also this applies:"Commander doesn't know about Meta compositions such as from snowcrows and let's even kitten bearbows (or rangers in general) and other useless noob classes join"and"Commander can't organize a decent group to kill it quick and only delays it further when speedclear groups could have done this more than 5 times in that time"C'mon! Raids aren't hard. They're actually too easy even with CMs compared to raids of other games. This whole game isn't hard! Just git gud and everything's fine. ;)

Also, I don't know why this is an option but the comm doesn't need to provide food. You should know for yourself what food/enhancements to use if you're joining a raid. The comm doesn't need to babysit you and take you by the hand! Pay your own gold, get your own stuff! It has been like that before this kitten chef update came. People are just lazy omg!

I actually put that food option there as a joke, but to my surprise someone actually voted for it

[Virdo.1540]

asking for LIs in general.Strikes Arent Raids.

Raiders dont have to know how strikes work.Strikers dont have to know how raids work.

Its like asking in Fractals for the PvP-Rank

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

@Virdo.1540 said:asking for LIs in general.Strikes Arent Raids.

Raiders dont have to know how strikes work.Strikers dont have to know how raids work.

Its like asking in Fractals for the PvP-Rank

Wat u are saying isnt completly true... askinf for LIs is required to be able to get experienced playersStrikes and raids work exactly like each other. Strikes just are simply easierThey both work like this if u ask:Do mechanics.Kill boss.A happy squad is a fastkill squad and dat requires that ppl know wat they are doing.Ppl USUALY know wat they are doing wen they are experienced. And with more experience u would have betrer resultsDats why some ask for LIsBut this is my personal opinion.

[Virdo.1540]

@Arcaniaxs.4519 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:asking for LIs in general.Strikes Arent Raids.

Raiders dont have to know how strikes work.Strikers dont have to know how raids work.

Its like asking in Fractals for the PvP-Rank

Wat u are saying isnt completly true... askinf for LIs is required to be able to get experienced playersStrikes and raids work exactly like each other. Strikes just are simply easierThey both work like this if u ask:Do mechanics.Kill boss.A happy squad is a fastkill squad and dat requires that ppl know wat they are doing.Ppl USUALY know wat they are doing wen they are experienced. And with more experience u would have betrer resultsDats why some ask for LIsBut this is my personal opinion.

but asking for 100lis ,while persons did it 3-4 timesor someone who did it 50times ,but only has 8 li

this shouldnt supposed to be like that

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Arcaniaxs.4519 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:asking for LIs in general.Strikes Arent Raids.

Raiders dont have to know how strikes work.Strikers dont have to know how raids work.

Its like asking in Fractals for the PvP-Rank

Wat u are saying isnt completly true... askinf for LIs is required to be able to get experienced playersStrikes and raids work exactly like each other. Strikes just are simply easierThey both work like this if u ask:Do mechanics.Kill boss.A happy squad is a fastkill squad and dat requires that ppl know wat they are doing.Ppl USUALY know wat they are doing wen they are experienced. And with more experience u would have betrer resultsDats why some ask for LIsBut this is my personal opinion.

but asking for 100lis ,while persons did it 3-4 timesor someone who did it 50times ,but only has 8 li

this shouldnt supposed to be like that

LolIm not saying wat u said is wrong but... if someone already did it 50 times... how they did it? Probably by joining other groups. So THEY actually done it 50 times! With a no li group!... so just why would u join a li group while u can join the no li group?

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

And a 100 li group members did x10 times harder bosses multiple times to achive 100LIs. So if u are a raider with 100 LI u can easily kill strike bosses just because they are ez

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

The only so called "hard" bosses are boneS and WoJ.... and it is bec ppl cant see they are chained or they cant manage to move or dodgeU can learn both in 30mins and then u can ezily do well