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Please stop asking LI for strike missions


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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Tails.9372" said:Furthermore, there are some cases where your build doesn't affect your DPS at all. Take the Ancient Forgeman for example, all people would have to do to kill him is get into the tank, break this BB and spam 1. The NPCs even scream what you have to do but in public pugs most of the time > 50% of the party fails to do so.If all everyone'll do is jump into tank and spam 1, then the same thing happens, because the tank will get broken (and thus unable to be used until repaired... and then broken again right away) due to noone clearing adds. From you comment i can only assume you might have not noticed the group doing that for you, though.Add damage during that phase is pretty much neglectable unless no one was clearing adds beforehand at all. The main amount of damage the tank usualy takes comes from the Ancient Forgeman himself and if the ~3 "less casual" players you usually get would prepare to heal the tank before jumping into it then this wouldn't be an issue at all.

Also GZ on ignoring the point and using baseless assumptions to be dismissive, from you of all people I would have expected better.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@yann.1946 said:Wasn't that the point of this discussion, how is an increase of mechanical skill possible within gw2 broader design principles and why should we bother with it?And that's my point - within current design principles we probably shouldn't bother, because the impact of what we could achieve without changing those principles would be at best minimal. And the price of achieving that minimal change might even end up being way too great for what we'd get.

You can't realistically achieve any significant success
without
attacking some core design principles.

Well then i'll have to disagree thing like dodging, positioning, breackbars, cc, etc. are perfectly possible to be improved in the present design.

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:Wasn't that the point of this discussion, how is an increase of mechanical skill possible within gw2 broader design principles and why should we bother with it?And that's my point - within current design principles we probably shouldn't bother, because the impact of what we could achieve without changing those principles would be at best minimal. And the price of achieving that minimal change might even end up being way too great for what we'd get.

You can't realistically achieve any significant success
without
attacking some core design principles.

Well then i'll have to disagree thing like dodging, positioning, breackbars, cc, etc. are perfectly possible to be improved in the present design.Sure, but that would
not
change the 10x dps disparity between top and average.
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The game also does not do very much> @Astralporing.1957 said:

@yann.1946 said:Wasn't that the point of this discussion, how is an increase of mechanical skill possible within gw2 broader design principles and why should we bother with it?And that's my point - within current design principles we probably shouldn't bother, because the impact of what we could achieve without changing those principles would be at best minimal. And the price of achieving that minimal change might even end up being way too great for what we'd get.

You can't realistically achieve any significant success
without
attacking some core design principles.

Well then i'll have to disagree thing like dodging, positioning, breackbars, cc, etc. are perfectly possible to be improved in the present design.Sure, but that would
not
change the 10x dps disparity between top and average.

Heres a simple hypothetical example to illustrate this. Player a and player b are both dps on vale guardian. Blue teleport circles shows up underneath their feet.

Player A takes two steps backwards without breaking their rotation. After the circle pops, they step back into position perfectly to ensure they dont get hit by seekers.

Player b to ensure that they dont get teleported expends double dodges which puts them into range of incoming seekers. They then swap to shield to block incoming seeker damage and walk the full distance back to the group.

Both players here have succeeded in doing the mechanics perfectly yet one is clearly better than the other. If you are player b, there isnt much the game gives you to let you know you're "failing" and would even take a very keen eye from an experienced player to pick out this inefficiency from logs. These kinds of things are really hard to teach people who are not familiar with the core concepts of action combat.

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@Shikaru.7618 said:The game also does not do very much> @Astralporing.1957 said:

@yann.1946 said:Wasn't that the point of this discussion, how is an increase of mechanical skill possible within gw2 broader design principles and why should we bother with it?And that's my point - within current design principles we probably shouldn't bother, because the impact of what we could achieve without changing those principles would be at best minimal. And the price of achieving that minimal change might even end up being way too great for what we'd get.

You can't realistically achieve any significant success
without
attacking some core design principles.

Well then i'll have to disagree thing like dodging, positioning, breackbars, cc, etc. are perfectly possible to be improved in the present design.Sure, but that would
not
change the 10x dps disparity between top and average.

Heres a simple hypothetical example to illustrate this. Player a and player b are both dps on vale guardian. Blue teleport circles shows up underneath their feet.

Player A takes two steps backwards without breaking their rotation. After the circle pops, they step back into position perfectly to ensure they dont get hit by seekers.

Player b to ensure that they dont get teleported expends double dodges which puts them into range of incoming seekers. They then swap to shield to block incoming seeker damage and walk the full distance back to the group.

Both players here have succeeded in doing the mechanics perfectly yet one is clearly better than the other. If you are player b, there isnt much the game gives you to let you know you're "failing" and would even take a very keen eye from an experienced player to pick out this inefficiency from logs. These kinds of things are really hard to teach people who are not familiar with the core concepts of action combat.

People who ask for LI didn't become "good" in just one night. Some of us are raiding in GW since 2015. We took our time to learn basic mindset when joining any raid. It takes time and willingness to fill that gap. Simple avoiding mechanics in different ways does not cause 10x damage disparity. For the past 5 years I've seen many examples of DPS players being below healers. Some far greater than 10x. If you are not willing to fill that gap, there is nothing anyone can do to help those people. There is a sea of helpful guides available out there. They will get better if they want to. If those "raiders" are asking for for high requirements it's because they want people with similar mindset.You can make an argument that we can that ANet can try their best and provide ways for those kind of players to get better at the game, but if you read some of the forum comments you can notice that some players are offended by shear fact of even suggesting self-improvement. It cannot be helped. They have their right to stay that way. Just like people asking for LI in strike missions have their right to deny them entry into their own squads on their own rules.

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@Yakez.7561 said:

LI req is good. It motivates people to get better. If whole strike LFG would be LI groups people would start to raid and building community around it again. Joining strikes as tourists and making 0.5k dps is just awful.

Strike Missions are intended to help casual players get into raiding, not the other way around.

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@Shikaru.7618 said:The game also does not do very much> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

Sure, but that would
not
change the 10x dps disparity between top and average.

Heres a simple hypothetical example to illustrate this. Player a and player b are both dps on vale guardian. Blue teleport circles shows up underneath their feet.

Player A takes two steps backwards without breaking their rotation. After the circle pops, they step back into position perfectly to ensure they dont get hit by seekers.

Player b to ensure that they dont get teleported expends double dodges which puts them into range of incoming seekers. They then swap to shield to block incoming seeker damage and walk the full distance back to the group.

Both players here have succeeded in doing the mechanics perfectly yet one is clearly better than the other. If you are player b, there isnt much the game gives you to let you know you're "failing" and would even take a very keen eye from an experienced player to pick out this inefficiency from logs. These kinds of things are really hard to teach people who are not familiar with the core concepts of action combat.Indeed, but, as i said, things like that might at best improve the dps by 10-20%. Or make that even as much as 50%. Which is important on the top end, but does nothing for the effectiveness disparity in the general population. Notice, that in your example both players are generally good enough to do raids already, which means they do probably posess the mentality to improve using out-of-game resources. And that they went to the point where they might consider such small things to be important improvements only
because
they were already using out-of-game resources to improve.

In short, if you're doing 2k dps, things like you mentioned do not matter much at all. Even after you've perfected your mechanics, you'd still be doing 2.5-3k dps when others are doing 25k in the same situation. And that disparity is simply not something this game is capable of helping you with. Due to the game core design issues, you need to do it completely on your own.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:With the game gaining an even higher percentage of open-world-only players due to said requirements, the development would shift even further away from instanced content.

These people will never understand that all they're accomplishing with their gatekeeping is making ALL development stop on any type of instanced content. They're basically self-defeating.

@zombyturtle.5980 said:As long as players join groups and do 2-3k as a dps, I will keep putting requirements in my LFG.

If they ever stop, I will make all welcome groups, but I dont have much hope of that happening.

Anet had a chance to add recommended builds and gear sets when they added templates but they did not. Giving new players something to use would've helped a ton, as they'd be running a decent build and pulling at least 10k instead fo 2-3k.

We understand. But why should we care.

We can take players that are bad. Since they have no reason to learn, they will never improve (because we get the kill and we are taking them anyway). The content will be updated but it will never be fun for us because we are playing with bad players all the time.

Or we can only take some players. Then the game will not be updated but we will have fun until the end.

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@"tim.4596" said:Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.

I used to argue the same way not too long ago, and I still don't join LI request squads, because I don't meet those requirements (I've not raided often enough; of course, I could use 3rd party tools to fake the requirement, but I'd rather not).

However, seeing how badly many average PvE players are doing in Strike Missions (standing in high-damage AoE and dying instead of stepping aside or dodging, being incapable of providing CC when needed, not dealing enough DPS, not listening to call-outs in chat, etc), even when you write "Know the mechanics!" or "exp players only" in LFG, I understand why some raid players prefer to play only with other raid players, because then they can be sure they won't have to deal with the frustration of having to do a Strike Mission over and over again due to their teammates acting so inept.

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so what we should ask ?AP ? make 30k+ ap ?100cm fractal kp ?some titles ? LHB, or fractal god? or ultimate dominator ?

Plz don't say "nothing to ask". We have elite, this elite like dominate and pround themselfs, so we need some elite option.

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@"lare.5129" said:so what we should ask ?AP ? make 30k+ ap ?100cm fractal kp ?some titles ? LHB, or fractal god? or ultimate dominator ?

Plz don't say "nothing to ask". We have elite, this elite like dominate and pround themselfs, so we need some elite option.

ur the guy thats asking for fractal cms kp, and laugh from ppl asking for other requirements lmao. and than u do 5 healers boneskinner, eh

Tim i agree with u, i usually do strikes without requirements, as we shouldnt lock content from ppl that starts to play. but sometimes im tired, want just a smooth run, and i ask for som requirements. as was told live and let live

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@"Ashantara.8731" said:However, seeing how badly many average PvE players are doing in Strike Missions (standing in high-damage AoE and dying instead of stepping aside or dodging, being incapable of providing CC when needed, not dealing enough DPS, not listening to call-outs in chat, etc), even when you write "Know the mechanics!" or "exp players only" in LFG, I understand why some raid players prefer to play only with other raid players, because then they can be sure they won't have to deal with the frustration of having to do a Strike Mission over and over again due to their teammates acting so inept.My "can't say I blame them" moments happen when someone struggles to actually get in the mission or fumbles a ready check or just doesnt read basic instructions like "click on the beacon on your map".How many times have I seen some squad member still in Lion's Arch when the last of my team is at the Shiverpeaks beacon and has been for 5 minutes?And you then ask them to join the team...and only then... after everyone's been waiting and you ask do they say "How do I get there?"Why didn't they ask immediately after joining?

A good third of every open squad is absolutely functional dead weight. I've come to grips with this. I keep running "All Welcome" strikes despite it.

But every time some jerk joins a squad without knowing what content they are queuing up for or how to access it, wasting the time of 9 other people instead of asking a simple question... I get that much closer to setting a bar for entry on my squads.It happens daily.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:These people will never understand that all they're accomplishing with their gatekeeping is making ALL development stop on any type of instanced content. They're basically self-defeating.

Having multiple
difficulty options
could easily solve this
kill proof
situation.

Possible for a company like Blizzard, where they have resources and steady revenue stream, but likely outside of what ANET can deliver at this point.. Do date, there are only 2 fractals that have true CM modes, and while they announced the new upcoming fractal will have a CM mode as well, it may way launch with WvW Alliances for all we know.

And no, T2-T4 does not equal higher difficulty modes, since the only thing needed to enter T4 is a credit card to buy the materials necessary and get full ascended gear + 150 AR. (and judging by some of what I've seen in LFGs of late, that is definitely happening)

ANET went the easy route (aka what they can afford) by adding a kill timer to Strikes, rewarding 'better' loot for those who kill it faster.

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i think there are 3 groups of players when it comes to instanced endgame content (heavily generalized, of course there are 'subgroups' in between):

  1. the dedicated playersthey realize instanced endgame content is not for everyone and that you need to be properly prepared.they will actively look for a training group, optimize their build, learn their rotation, watch guides, and be open to criticism from more experienced players.

  2. the naive playersthey think open world PvE already taught them everything they need to know.they will randomly join squads on their metabattle build and yellow soldiers gear, because this build was perfectly fine for all those events they did in the past.sometimes they dont read the chat, so even if the squad tries to explain something to them they simply dont realize it.or they do read the chat, but when they get called out or someone tries to explain something to them they get toxic, because they feel entitlted to 'play the game the way they want'.

  3. the leechersthey are not actually interested in the content, they are only in it for the loot. need i say more??

funny enough, those constantly complaining about the 'rediculous gatekeeping', 'stupid LI requirements' and 'toxic elitists' are usually either group 2 or 3.go figure.

so where am i trying to go with this? where is the connection to strikes?i'll tell ya:strikes are for those players in group 1 who are not quite ready for raids yet. this way they can figure out new mechanics in a more casual environment and lower the learning curve between open world and endgame stuff like raids.strikes are not for those who think they can just jump into instanced content and play the same way they do in open world. if you are not willing to adapt for strikes, you will not do any better in raids. so in the end it all comes down to you and your attitude towards the content. stop blaming others! :smile:

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@mindcircus.1506 said:But every time some jerk joins a squad without knowing what content they are queuing up for or how to access it, wasting the time of 9 other people instead of asking a simple question...

That's as bad as ignoring the chat instructions: when someone doesn't have a clue but is too shy to ask. I gladly explain mechanics to players who have not played the content yet - but keeping quiet and ruining the run for everyone else is behavior that makes me furious.

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@"Hyrai.8720" said:i think there are 3 groups of players when it comes to instanced endgame content (heavily generalized, of course there are 'subgroups' in between):

  1. the dedicated playersthey realize instanced endgame content is not for everyone and that you need to be properly prepared.they will actively look for a training group, optimize their build, learn their rotation, watch guides, and be open to criticism from more experienced players.

  2. the naive playersthey think open world PvE already taught them everything they need to know.they will randomly join squads on their metabattle build and yellow soldiers gear, because this build was perfectly fine for all those events they did in the past.sometimes they dont read the chat, so even if the squad tries to explain something to them they simply dont realize it.or they do read the chat, but when they get called out or someone tries to explain something to them they get toxic, because they feel entitlted to 'play the game the way they want'.

  3. the leechersthey are not actually interested in the content, they are only in it for the loot. need i say more??

funny enough, those constantly complaining about the 'rediculous gatekeeping', 'stupid LI requirements' and 'toxic elitists' are usually either group 2 or 3.go figure.

so where am i trying to go with this? where is the connection to strikes?i'll tell ya:strikes are for those players in group 1 who are not quite ready for raids yet. this way they can figure out new mechanics in a more casual environment and lower the learning curve between open world and endgame stuff like raids.strikes are not for those who think they can just jump into instanced content and play the same way they do in open world. if you are not willing to adapt for strikes, you will not do any better in raids. so in the end it all comes down to you and your attitude towards the content. stop blaming others! :smile:

Pretty good summary of the situation. One could differentiate the groups into subgroups, and I probably wouldn't throw all players of 1 type into the same basket, but the general idea is correct:

Strikes are meant to encourage players to become better to tackle more challenging content by introducing 10 player group content to everyone.

The actual amount of game knowledge you can gain from strikes is minimal and far to little to allow a seem-less transition into raids. For that, traditional approaches are required and vast amount of outside of game knowledge (either via out of game sources or players who teach one in game). That's what most don't get. Playing strikes will NOT get you raid ready. It will at best get you raid interested and willing to improve and work on your game knowledge and ability.

That's also the same reason why I personally, and others I know, objected to "easy" mode raids. The result there would have been the same or very similar to strikes.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:Indeed, but, as i said, things like that might at best improve the dps by 10-20%. Or make that even as much as 50%. Which is important on the top end, but does nothing for the effectiveness disparity in the general population. Notice, that in your example both players are generally good enough to do raids already, which means they do probably posess the mentality to improve using out-of-game resources. And that they went to the point where they might consider such small things to be important improvements only because they were already using out-of-game resources to improve.

In short, if you're doing 2k dps, things like you mentioned do not matter much at all. Even after you've perfected your mechanics, you'd still be doing 2.5-3k dps when others are doing 25k in the same situation. And that disparity is simply not something this game is capable of helping you with. Due to the game core design issues, you need to do it completely on your own.

I wouldn't underestimate how much dps you lose by disengaging from your target for any length of time, for any reason. A common reason for doing so unnecessarily is getting hit below 50% hp, double dodging away and kiting around until your heal skill is off cooldown.

Your effective damage output will go to zero. You put yourself out of range of boon support so you don't have 25 might, fury, quickness when you re-engage. When I bench with and without boons, I can do about 15k/s on Power Weaver with no boons vs 31k/s with. So you can imagine the effect of dropping your dps uptime from 100% to 50% and then bursting with no boon support.

Another major factor in your dps is the order of and time between skill activations, which can be a real problem if you haven't analysed your runs and adjusted your practice accordingly. It is even worse if you have a tendency to button mash when under pressure because many skills are a dps loss over auto and you should never use them.

The order of skills matters because you are stacking damage multipliers so your total damage is far bigger than you would think by simply adding all the modifiers up. Some of your skill buttons have huge cast times which you interrupt while dodging unnecessarily and some have huge aftercasts which you don't cancel. Every other skill you let an auto 1 slip through and autos are typically only worth doing if you complete the entire chain in contiguous blocks because most of the damage is backloaded into auto 3.

Now imagine being plagued by all these little problems and you get hit, panic and run away for 8 seconds until your heal skill comes off cooldown.

Big dps numbers are entirely predicated on dps uptime being as close to 100% as possible with as little time between skill casts as possible, with as few skill interruptions as possible. I didn't realise this until I started logging with arcDPS and getting help interpreting the data.

The one thing that made me realize this visually was seeing the player summary graph and simple rotation in Fallen[sC] 's arcDPS report for Power Weaver. His opening burst was 61k/s. Mine was 34k/s and I couldn't for the life of me understand why. After getting help analysing my logs, it turned out it was caused entirely by gaps in my skill queuing, which allowed auto 1s to slip in between skill buttons. He reached Fireform in 3.4 seconds. It took me 6.1 seconds. We did more or less the same amount of damage when we hit but he had pressed almost twice as many buttons as I did in the burst window. This is why his rate of damage at this point in rotation is twice as high.

In game you don't think about the time cost in seconds and milliseconds for every action you perform. This is something you can only look at from a data centric perspective and identify bad trends which you then have to unlearn. Without analytics, you can easily habituate a playstyle where the time cost of your actions is something you are never aware of. And so people look to infusions, food buffs, ascended gear or some other reason that seems like it explains the difference.

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@Besetment.9187 said:The one thing that made me realize this visually was seeing the player summary graph and simple rotation in Fallen[sC] 's arcDPS report for Power Weaver. His opening burst was 61k/s. Mine was 34k/s and I couldn't for the life of me understand why. After getting help analysing my logs, it turned out it was caused entirely by gaps in my skill queuing, which allowed auto 1s to slip in between skill buttons. He reached Fireform in 3.4 seconds. It took me 6.1 seconds. We did more or less the same amount of damage when we hit but he had pressed almost twice as many buttons as I did in the burst window. This is why his rate of damage at this point in rotation is twice as high.

In game you don't think about the time cost in seconds and milliseconds for every action you perform. This is something you can only look at from a data centric perspective and identify bad trends which you then have to unlearn. Without analytics, you can easily habituate a playstyle where the time cost of your actions is something you are never aware of. And so people look to infusions, food buffs, ascended gear or some other reason that seems like it explains the difference.Isn't that exactly the point i was making? Those are things that game can't teach you. I mean, how can the game teach you to optimize the rotation to the milisecond, when it doesn't even know what that rotation is?

So, the amount of things this game could possibly teach you, and the improvements you could make due to this is very limited. If you want to make any real improvements, you need to use resources that the game simply cannot provide to you. And it cannot provide them due to how those game systems are designed.

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One side likes to have quick and easy runs even if that means excluding a few players. The other side doesn’t like to be excluded even if that makes others suffer through worse runs. Just like picking teams at school. Both sides get upset and both sides are selfish.

But how is them trying to have a say in who they play with any worse than you trying to tell other players who they allowed to play with?

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  • 3 weeks later...

@"Vornollo.5182" said:I don't generally do PvE, but this reminds me a bit of what happens in WvW squads sometimes where you "have to do this/that, runs such/so build" etc.My opinion?Make your own LFG for like-minded people. The small amount of time spent on the forum seems to indicate there's so many of the kind of players who think just like you.If I ever feel like doing Fractals but can't find a T4 group that's looking for what I play: I make my own LFG.Squad in WvW doesn't want me as a Thief main..? Well, kitten them I'll do my own thing.You are as much entitled to these demands not to do it, as they are to do demand them, lol.

Also, there's clearly a difference... If I run around in WvW with my guild (private tag, because no we don't want you around us) and we're about to jump into a 15v30 fight, but some pug comes around in our smokefields and gives our advantage away, yeah that's a good way for that 1 pug to spoil the fun of 15 others.Same thing for PvE I'd figure. You want people who know what they do, understandable, carrying dead weight is heavy work.You're fine with casuals who just want to have fun in their own way, understandable too.

You do you, nothing's stopping you in any part of this game to do what you want to do, the tools are there.

GW2 is really not a hard game (if you're not trying to reach the top 0.1%), with a bit of explanation, most people can perform very well. I'd just wish more players would be willing to give noobs a chance to learn, and teach them. Training groups can be tedious, and Guilds can be slow to form a group.

To be fair, I'm not really sure what to write anymore on this topic, especially after reading all those comments. Whilst I do think that no li should be asked for strike as they are really not that difficult, I also understand players valuing their time. However GW2 is a game, and a game is made to be enjoyed, if you really value your time, I'd say just have a static for everything (raids, fractals, and even strikes), that way you can run whatever you want, and have extremely performing players.

I still remain strong on the idea that new players should be allowed in pug parties, and that inviting more players to discover strikes will get those player to try out raids, and hopefully more raids will be released. A few weeks ago was actually the 1 year anniversary of "NO NEW RAID".

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@tim.4596 said:

@"Vornollo.5182" said:I don't generally do PvE, but this reminds me a bit of what happens in WvW squads sometimes where you "have to do this/that, runs such/so build" etc.My opinion?Make your own LFG for like-minded people. The small amount of time spent on the forum seems to indicate there's so many of the kind of players who think just like you.If I ever feel like doing Fractals but can't find a T4 group that's looking for what I play: I make my own LFG.Squad in WvW doesn't want me as a Thief main..? Well, kitten them I'll do my own thing.You are as much entitled to these demands not to do it, as they are to do demand them, lol.

Also, there's clearly a difference... If I run around in WvW with my guild (private tag, because no we don't want you around us) and we're about to jump into a 15v30 fight, but some pug comes around in our smokefields and gives our advantage away, yeah that's a good way for that 1 pug to spoil the fun of 15 others.Same thing for PvE I'd figure. You want people who know what they do, understandable, carrying dead weight is heavy work.You're fine with casuals who just want to have fun in their own way, understandable too.

You do you, nothing's stopping you in any part of this game to do what you want to do, the tools are there.

GW2 is really not a hard game (if you're not trying to reach the top 0.1%), with a bit of explanation, most people can perform very well. I'd just wish more players would be willing to give noobs a chance to learn, and teach them. Training groups can be tedious, and Guilds can be slow to form a group.

To be fair, I'm not really sure what to write anymore on this topic, especially after reading all those comments. Whilst I do think that no li should be asked for strike as they are really not that difficult, I also understand players valuing their time. However GW2 is a game, and a game is made to be enjoyed, if you really value your time, I'd say just have a static for everything (raids, fractals, and even strikes), that way you can run whatever you want, and have extremely performing players.

I still remain strong on the idea that new players should be allowed in pug parties, and that inviting more players to discover strikes will get those player to try out raids, and hopefully more raids will be released. A few weeks ago was actually the 1 year anniversary of "NO NEW RAID".

Yes, gw2 isnt that dificult. But the problem is same as this:Try to teach a child that just went to kindergarden for the first time solving linear equasions in less then 10 minutes.The problem is not that the game is hard. Its the oposite. The game is so easy that most players are not able to do even the basics required. You cannot teach that in 5 minutes before raid/strike/fractal/dungeon...

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@tim.4596 said:

@"Vornollo.5182" said:I don't generally do PvE, but this reminds me a bit of what happens in WvW squads sometimes where you "have to do this/that, runs such/so build" etc.My opinion?Make your own LFG for like-minded people. The small amount of time spent on the forum seems to indicate there's so many of the kind of players who think just like you.If I ever feel like doing Fractals but can't find a T4 group that's looking for what I play: I make my own LFG.Squad in WvW doesn't want me as a Thief main..? Well, kitten them I'll do my own thing.You are as much entitled to these demands not to do it, as they are to do demand them, lol.

Also, there's clearly a difference... If I run around in WvW with my guild (private tag, because no we don't want you around us) and we're about to jump into a 15v30 fight, but some pug comes around in our smokefields and gives our advantage away, yeah that's a good way for that 1 pug to spoil the fun of 15 others.Same thing for PvE I'd figure. You want people who know what they do, understandable, carrying dead weight is heavy work.You're fine with casuals who just want to have fun in their own way, understandable too.

You do you, nothing's stopping you in any part of this game to do what you want to do, the tools are there.

GW2 is really not a hard game (if you're not trying to reach the top 0.1%), with a bit of explanation, most people can perform very well. I'd just wish more players would be willing to give noobs a chance to learn, and teach them. Training groups can be tedious, and Guilds can be slow to form a group.

To be fair, I'm not really sure what to write anymore on this topic, especially after reading all those comments. Whilst I do think that no li should be asked for strike as they are really not that difficult, I also understand players valuing their time. However GW2 is a game, and a game is made to be enjoyed, if you really value your time, I'd say just have a static for everything (raids, fractals, and even strikes), that way you can run whatever you want, and have extremely performing players.

I still remain strong on the idea that new players should be allowed in pug parties, and that inviting more players to discover strikes will get those player to try out raids, and hopefully more raids will be released. A few weeks ago was actually the 1 year anniversary of "NO NEW RAID".

I cant play at a consistent time every day, because my free time is limited. So i cant have a static group for content. That doesnt mean I dont value my time, in fact I value it even more. I just dont have time most days to spend 1hr+ on strike missions.

Honestly if players came with even semi decent builds, I wouldnt mind not having restrictions, but when i do join all welcome groups i see 4-5 dps players doing 3k dps and me and 1 other guy doing 20k, I feel like im duoing the strike and thats not how i usually like to play.

I did an all welcome raid training yesterday on lfg because I had free time and was bored. After 3 hours, some players were still making the exact same mistakes with the basic mechanics that they were making 5 minutes into the training, despite getting explanations after every wipe. I dont mind this in training but if it takes the dps players who do 3k, 3+ hours to learn basic stuff then sorry but I just dont want them in groups where im trying to actually kill things.

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@"tim.4596" said:To be fair, I'm not really sure what to write anymore on this topic, especially after reading all those comments. Whilst I do think that no li should be asked for strike as they are really not that difficult, I also understand players valuing their time. However GW2 is a game, and a game is made to be enjoyed, if you really value your time, I'd say just have a static for everything (raids, fractals, and even strikes), that way you can run whatever you want, and have extremely performing players.Why is it wrong to use the LFG for "extremely performing players"?Why is the only other solution you offer to get a static?Isn't it just simpler to continue to allow people to use the LFG?

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