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Long compared to other Strike Missions, but not close to Forging Steel yet. Just stack to kill minnions and 3 champs(punch bags). Final boss is a massive reinforced punch bag. Boring overall.

Entire strike is based on 1 timer(?). Which makes it success or failure, without worrying about gold/silver/bronze participation which makes it similar to raid which seems more appropriate.

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It's not a very compelling Strike Mission. The bosses are punching bags with just a lot of health, and the rest is just spamming of weak mobs while you stay in one place. But it IS different from the other Strike Missions, and perhaps that is the point. But I don't find it that fun to do. Most of the Strike Missions are just a short boss battle, which means it doesn't outstay its welcome. The Forging Steel mission is a lot longer, but has a lot of variety in it, plus a fun boss battle. This new one feels long, but without the variety.

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@TPMN.1483 said:So hang on ... Gorseval can be 4 man'd:no matter they do that 4, 3, or solo. That not have any tie whit common and real. Currently we have a lot of stats, people use cleric/carrion on dps biulds, use they own biuld, and do 3k dps, and happy on common 3 strikes. Why we should steal this from them??? Take normal people with ptv stats, roleplay roation, take seraps healers and go try Cold War. If CW strike valid - this ok, if not - this is dead content.

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@lare.5129 said:

@TPMN.1483 said:So hang on ... Gorseval can be 4 man'd:no matter they do that 4, 3, or solo. That not have any tie whit common and real. Currently we have a lot of stats, people use cleric/carrion on dps biulds, use they own biuld, and do 3k dps, and happy on common 3 strikes. Why we should steal this from them??? Take normal people with ptv stats, roleplay roation, take seraps healers and go try Cold War. If CW strike valid - this ok, if not - this is dead content.

This is why - there is an expectation that you should gear up; if your playing in pvt gear in any content mode there is massive room for improvement and learn how the combat system works properly.

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If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.

Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

You can have one, or the other, but not both. And yet the game wants to have both. And when it causes a ton of problems, everyone's suddenly surprised for some reason.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

If we consider that there exists people with low enough experience that they need tank gear to survive, then it isn't wrong to have said gear stats available. Granted, low skill players are unlikely to survive if they don't have these sets available. At the same time, if they are aware of their skills, they are unlikely to step into higher level fractals, raids, or even strikes.

The game has different tiers of difficulty exactly because it tries to hold on to as many kinds of players as possible. Ideally, if said tiers had a progressive learning curve to them, then players would have a learning path until reaching their own peak performance where they are comfortable at.

Finally, I don't think there's an inherently useless stat combination, since even the tankiest sets could be used to build a group support character. A useless build would be one that is built around survival entirely while not contributing to others in any way (be it healing, barriers, boons, damage reduction or cleanses), but that's because it is a build that offers nothing to the group effort, not even the basics of DPS.

I'd say that pretty much every set can find some use (even if niche), but once requirements come into play, the usable selection narrows itself to those which meet them.

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@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:It's not a very compelling Strike Mission. The bosses are punching bags with just a lot of health, and the rest is just spamming of weak mobs while you stay in one place. But it IS different from the other Strike Missions, and perhaps that is the point. But I don't find it that fun to do. Most of the Strike Missions are just a short boss battle, which means it doesn't outstay its welcome. The Forging Steel mission is a lot longer, but has a lot of variety in it, plus a fun boss battle. This new one feels long, but without the variety.

Since ANET has said the point of the strike missions is to lead to raids....they need to keep up with that theme. The Cold War strike reminded me of the dragonbash holo instance. If they want to give us different flavor strikes that's good but always add raid mechanics MAYBE even from the current raid i.e. the Vale Guardian fight is the Shiverpeak boss etc etc.

I played Cold War today and I guess they added new abilities because their ice powers are different and deadlier now (ice fields, ice reflects and blizzards).

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@HotDelirium.7984 said:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:It's not a very compelling Strike Mission. The bosses are punching bags with just a lot of health, and the rest is just spamming of weak mobs while you stay in one place. But it IS different from the other Strike Missions, and perhaps that is the point. But I don't find it that fun to do. Most of the Strike Missions are just a short boss battle, which means it doesn't outstay its welcome. The Forging Steel mission is a lot longer, but has a lot of variety in it, plus a fun boss battle. This new one feels long, but without the variety.

Since ANET has said the point of the strike missions is to lead to raids....they need to keep up with that theme. The Cold War strike reminded me of the dragonbash holo instance. If they want to give us different flavor strikes that's good but always add raid mechanics MAYBE even from the current raid i.e. the Vale Guardian fight is the Shiverpeak boss etc etc.

I played Cold War today and I guess they added new abilities because their ice powers are different and deadlier now (ice fields, ice reflects and blizzards).A mini patch? Felt the same for me though.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.? So you mean that 80%+ stat combination is useless and should be removed ? But how I understand very big value people play gw because we have this spirit of freedom.

Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.this is not problem. This is problem only in raids, in on some strikes. 90% people who I know from gw2 not use solid zerk or viper .. And they feel ok.So may be something wrong wht raids and some strikes? On ColdWar they feel not very good, but eatable too. So make nerf fo ColdWar is good idea..

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@Astralporing.1957 said:If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.

Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

You can have one, or the other, but not both. And yet the game wants to have both. And when it causes a ton of problems, everyone's suddenly surprised for some reason.

More like the stats are not suitable for the task.

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@Eramonster.2718 said:Entire strike is based on 1 timer(?). Which makes it success or failure, without worrying about gold/silver/bronze participation which makes it similar to raid which seems more appropriate.

thats not entirely true. there is no bronze/silver/gold ranking, but you get more loot chests if you finish it faster.best i could do after pugging it 3 times was 7 extra chests.by the way they are arranged around the main chest i would say max is 8 or 9.

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@lare.5129 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.? So you mean that 80%+ stat combination is useless and should be removed ? But how I understand very big value people play gw because we have this spirit of freedom.

Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.this is not problem. This is problem only in raids, in on some strikes. 90% people who I know from gw2 not use solid zerk or viper .. And they feel ok.So may be something wrong wht raids and some strikes? On ColdWar they feel not very good, but eatable too. So make nerf fo ColdWar is good idea..

There is a difference between viability (or rather even being optimal) in PvE endgame and the right to exist.

Just because something is very much so suboptimal to run in endgame PvE content doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place somewhere else in the game, no matter how niche (although ofc a certain choice ideally isn't bad everywhere, which would make it indeed pointless).

Neither does all content need to be adjusted down to be playable with all suboptimal Gear or Trait choices for that particular type of content in the name of "freedom".

If every piece of content is so easy it doesn't matter what and how you play then that is the best way to invalidate any choices players can make, at which point you might as well remove Gear stats, Traits and any other character customisation, because they would not matter anymore.

Freedom of choice does not mean freedom from consequence of those choices. Yes, there are better and worse choices for certain content, that is what makes it interesting to have choices in the first place and engaging to know what to pick when and where.If all choices do roughly the same thing at the same efficacy everywhere, there is no point to having a choice at all, nor to get engaged with the game and it's systems to be able to make those choices in an informed way.

Certain stat combinations being superior in certain content for certain players though is neither a problem with the stat sets nor the content, neither is rewarding players for game understanding and adaptability problematic.

What a strange concept to want the entire world to adapt to your bad choices rather than striving for self-improvement. So no, there is not something wrong with Raids or Strikes, that mentality is.A certain stat combination that happens to be bad in certain content is not a fundamental part of your personality that Anet is not giving you the freedom to express, it's just a gear stat block. If you want to strive for that type of content, make a different choice for that. Improve, adapt. It's fine.If not, then there is plenty (the majority) of other content in which you can do whatever already (which arguably is the problem).

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@"Asum.4960" said:Just because something is very much so suboptimal to run in endgame PvE content doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place somewhere else in the game, no matter how niche (although ofc a certain choice ideally isn't bad everywhere, which would make it indeed pointless).Indeed, but you'd really want such choices to be superior in at least one place. Place that preferably is not so niche to be practically unimportant. If you have choices that are suboptimal everywhere (and GW2 is full of such choices, both in gearsets and in traitlines), then that is ideed a sign of bad design.

Neither does all content need to be adjusted down to be playable with all suboptimal Gear or Trait choices for that particular type of content in the name of "freedom".

If every piece of content is so easy it doesn't matter what and how you play then that is the best way to invalidate any choices players can make, at which point you might as well remove Gear stats, Traits and any other character customisation, because they would not matter anymore.

Freedom of choice does not mean freedom from consequence of those choices. Yes, there are better and worse choices for certain content, that is what makes it interesting to have choices in the first place and engaging to know what to pick when and where.It is okay to have a freedom of choice, and its okay for those choices to have consequences. If you make the consequences as massive as they are in gw2 however, you should then not be surprised that it results in massive effectiveness disparity. And yet, hearing devs, they consider this disparity to be a problem. Something they'd rather not have. All the stuff they do under the "bridge to raids" banner is them trying to make that disparity smaller, and the gap easier to cross. Which is pointless, because it is something created by the core systems. If they truly intend to address it, nothing short of adjustments to those core systems will do. Anything they do that does not touch the root cause of this is just a smokescreen. So, they should either address the real problem, or decide this is exactly what they wanted to have and go forward from that.

And it's not even like they originally hoped that more people will make the right choices, and just ended up disappointed by reality. No, it's worse - a lot of things they've done in the past strongly suggests, that when they designed this system they were completely unaware of what the "right choices" would be, and that the disparity will end up being this large.

If all choices do roughly the same thing at the same efficacy everywhere, there is no point to having a choice at all, nor to get engaged with the game and it's systems to be able to make those choices in an informed way.True, but all choices should still have around the same efficacy somewhere. And yet what we get is reality where some very few choices end up being far more useful overall than most others.

Certain stat combinations being superior in certain content for certain players though is neither a problem with the stat sets nor the content, neither is rewarding players for game understanding and adaptability problematic.If that's what you want to have, then it isn't problematic. In fact, there are whole games that are built around those assumption and are completely fine. Problems start when the devs themselves start saying that they find the consequences of that kind of design to be troublesome.

A certain stat combination that happens to be bad in certain content is not a fundamental part of your personality that Anet is not giving you the freedom to express, it's just a gear stat block. If you want to strive for that type of content, make a different choice for that. Improve, adapt. It's fine.If not, then there is plenty (the majority) of other content in which you can do whatever already (which arguably is the problem).Again, you're missing the point. The point being that those subpar choices are still subpar even in that other content where players "can do whatever".

The game tells you "pick your weapon", and then offers you a pile of sticks. The fact that the stick you picked up is enough for most places does not change the fact, that some of these "sticks", that seemingly look the same as the one you picked, are in fact swords. And some are guns or even laser cannons.

When the game offers you choices, it's generally a choice between good and bad options (with bad options being prevalent). It's not really a choice - it's a test. Test most players will fail, because there's nothing in the game that would tell you which answers are good ones and which are wrong. In order to find that out you'd have to check every single combination yourself, in all the possible situations, and only then you might be able to see which ones are better and which ones are worse (and sometimes not even then - compare pre-dps meter meta assuptions with past-dps meter ones. There was a lot of things even the most informed and knowledgeable players got wrong when they were relying only on the game itself).

If the choice is to be meanigful, it should offer things that are of generally similar usefulness (even if not necessarily for the same situations). In gw2, that is not the case.

Basically, GW2 is a game whose build and combat systems are designed in such a way as to ensure that huge majority of players will be really, really bad.And if someone thinks that this design goal is completely fine, then they later should not be complaining about bad players everywhere.

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Basically, GW2 is a game whose build and combat systems are designed in such a way as to ensure that huge majority of players will be really, really bad.And if someone thinks that this design goal is completely fine, then they later should not be complaining about bad players everywhere.

I will say that I do wish it was stressed more IN-GAME that the difficulty of bossess/instances is on this general level determined by ARENANET with considerations such as (allegedly) having ascended weapons, armor and accessories as well as having food buffs, utility buffs and traits that synergize well. They have this reasonable expectation that players are adhering to this to lower the difficulty of encounters and I am perfectly ok with that; its just not talked about IN-GAME that well or at all. You certainly have the freedom to not have buffs, ascended gear or relevant traits but I do hope they stress somewhere, anywhere, in the game that your play experience will be much better, survivable, and viable if you check off all those boxes.

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TINY runs strikes every night. Last night we were short-handed with only seven people, but we decided to try Cold War anyway. We had our usual two healers: the heal tempest who filmed this, and my Charr heal scourge. I think the Firebrand was chipping in some side support as well. Everyone else was DPS. Everyone in the group had at least some experience in strikes and/or raids. It wasn't pretty and we barely beat the timer, but the point is simply that we were able to beat the mission short-handed with a "less than meta" group. So I think that if you're considering strikes as "intro to raids" as Anet suggests, then the difficulty on this is right where it needs to be. YMMV.

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I can't seem to ever find a group for this. I don't prioritize strikes at this stage, and even though I tend to do my dailies at off peak times, I never had trouble getting any of the other strikes, including Steel, especially when they were the daily.

But this one? Even when it is the daily, LFG is always empty. I decided to just tag up and open an LFG group, despite never having done it before, and got it completed for the 1st Mastery Point, but I doubt I'll finish it 14 more times for the 2nd one at this rate. Don't care about the bear skins (have 2 already unlocked from WvW/PvP reward tracks) and I already finished the No Quarter meta achievement, so don't plan on doing it 50 times total...but I wouldn't mind getting that last mastery point.

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@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I can't seem to ever find a group for this. I don't prioritize strikes at this stage, and even though I tend to do my dailies at off peak times, I never had trouble getting any of the other strikes, including Steel, especially when they were the daily.

But this one? Even when it is the daily, LFG is always empty. I decided to just tag up and open an LFG group, despite never having done it before, and got it completed for the 1st Mastery Point, but I doubt I'll finish it 14 more times for the 2nd one at this rate. Don't care about the bear skins (have 2 already unlocked from WvW/PvP reward tracks) and I already finished the No Quarter meta achievement, so don't plan on doing it 50 times total...but I wouldn't mind getting that last mastery point.

The problem, at least as we've seen it in TINY, is that people are intimidated by strike missions.

  • People think strikes are harder than they are.
  • People think their gear or skills aren't good enough.
  • People are afraid of the "meta" toxicity that has bled over from raids into strikes.
  • People are afraid of meeting incompetence and/or toxicity in PUGs, which is part of why TINY does strikes shorthanded rather than invite strangers. We have kids in our guild and rules to protect them, and we've learned the hard way just how indecent some people can be.
  • Bottom line, people don't like being scared, and of course, nobody likes failing.

Therefore, I think overcoming people's fear of strike missions, for all of the above reasons, is the real challenge that both we and Anet face with this particular mode of the game.

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@Jimbru.6014 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I can't seem to ever find a group for this. I don't prioritize strikes at this stage, and even though I tend to do my dailies at off peak times, I never had trouble getting any of the other strikes, including Steel, especially when they were the daily.

But this one? Even when it is the daily, LFG is always empty. I decided to just tag up and open an LFG group, despite never having done it before, and got it completed for the 1st Mastery Point, but I doubt I'll finish it 14 more times for the 2nd one at this rate. Don't care about the bear skins (have 2 already unlocked from WvW/PvP reward tracks) and I already finished the No Quarter meta achievement, so don't plan on doing it 50 times total...but I wouldn't mind getting that last mastery point.

The problem, at least as we've seen it in TINY, is that people are intimidated by strike missions.
  • People think strikes are harder than they are.
  • People think their gear or skills aren't good enough.
  • People are afraid of the "meta" toxicity that has bled over from raids into strikes.
  • People are afraid of meeting incompetence and/or toxicity in PUGs, which is part of why TINY does strikes shorthanded rather than invite strangers. We have kids in our guild and rules to protect them, and we've learned the hard way just how indecent some people can be.
  • Bottom line, people don't like being scared, and of course, nobody likes failing.

Therefore, I think overcoming people's fear of strike missions, for all of the above reasons, is the real challenge that both we and Anet face with this particular mode of the game.

I agree with your points, but still, I never have trouble finding a group in LFG for any of the other strike missions, even Whisper or Boneskinner. I'm not talking about groups who complete the strike vs. wipes, I mean I'm not seeing any groups for Cold War in LFG at all. Does this mean that people dislike this strike that much more than others? I have no idea. It certainly didn't seem harder than Boneskinner or Whisper, or any longer than the Steel Legion one. I'm at a loss to explain why.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:I agree with your points, but still, I never have trouble finding a group in LFG for any of the other strike missions, even Whisper or Boneskinner. I'm not talking about groups who complete the strike vs. wipes, I mean I'm not seeing any groups for Cold War in LFG at all. Does this mean that people dislike this strike that much more than others? I have no idea. It certainly didn't seem harder than Boneskinner or Whisper, or any longer than the Steel Legion one. I'm at a loss to explain why.

I think it's several things...

  • The length of Cold War definitely puts off many people, self included. You can hear me mention that in the video, that I wish we could just fight the boss without all the kitten preamble. People are also rightly angry that Morale Breaker requires you to grind this mission 50 KITTEN TIMES!!!!! Between those two things, many people have decided that if they can't do Cold War quickly, they won't do it at all. In fact, I think that's probably the biggest strike against it.
  • Many people (particularly those used to raid tiers in WoW) probably think that because Cold War is the newest strike mission, it must be the hardest, but it's really not. Personally, I would place it between the bears and Whisper in difficulty.
  • The Morale Breaker achievement not rewarding properly was bad publicity. That's been fixed now.
  • The changing mechanics from week to week, and the semi-mysterious criteria for how much loot you get, are firsts in GW2 and weird to many people. No doubt those things are still being actively observed and adjusted by Anet.
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Lengthy, long drawn out fight with open world's Bounty Board level of difficulties. 3 Bounty Champ(1 at a time) followed by the Boss. Minnions swarming in before every encounter.

Not keen of this Strike. Fog surrounds the entire ring, there's no scenery together with repetitive music for entire fight (18-25mins) :frown:. Clunky with the ring locking out players temporarily when started. Confusing toggle and message when bazooka ran out of ammo. Bulky enemies, making their movement animation as if in slow motion :sleepy:. Rng rewards but mostly blues, greens and few rares.

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@Eramonster.2718 said:Lengthy, long drawn out fight with open world's Bounty Board level of difficulties. 3 Bounty Champ(1 at a time) followed by the Boss. Minnions swarming in before every encounter.

Not keen of this Strike. Fog surrounds the entire ring, there's no scenery together with repetitive music for entire fight (18-25mins) :frown:. Clunky with the ring locking out players temporarily when started. Confusing toggle and message when bazooka ran out of ammo. Bulky enemies, making their movement animation as if in slow motion :sleepy:. Rng rewards but mostly blues, greens and few rares.

I have a hard time even getting the white dot so I can hit with charzooka, why couldent it have been the bomber charzooka from the map with homing missiles.

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To be honest, that one's a snoozefest if you have a couple players with raid/fractal experience. Only dangerous thing is the assassins during Varenia and even that isn't an issue if people are aware of that mech's existence. Kitty personally would rather skip it during all strikes-runs but people want to do it for daily. At least at other bosses you don't waste half the time just waiting between champs.

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