Why are we calling them the five RACES of Tyria when they're obviously different species

[Tukaram.8256]

Well I assume the OP is a joke, but I will bite anyway.Race is an informal term with flexible definitions. When I was a kid, raised on Earth, we had 3 races. Now we have 5 (last I heard). That shows how flexible the term is. But according to science all humans are created equal - not identical, but equal. We are all one race, and also one species. For humans the term is interactable.

As for Tyria, if my favorite t-shirt of the 1990s is correct (One race: human) then the humans are one race. The other playable critters are races as well. You could easily substitute the word species.

[Dante.1508]

You are right op.. but its a game.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Tukaram.8256 said:You could easily substitute the word species.Yeah I can easily see a potato farmer in Tyria argue with a dolyak herder the substitutional similarity of the words species and races while a centaur just stabbed one his farmhands with a pointy stick.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:That, and how some people refuse to acknowledge that Humans and Norn aren't the same species.I mean, what are the odds that two completely unique species evolve to look identical, with only size as a factor to tell them apart.

I'm not sure what the odds are, but in real life it's not unheard of. It's called covergent evolution, and usually happens because certain forms are better for certain processes. For examples bats and pterosaurs evolved flight independantly and at different times, but the end result looks quite similar. Eyes are another common example - they've evolved independantly in several species, long after they split from their very distant common ancestors, but each group ended up with a similar structure, probably because there's not many ways you can build a functional eye.

Of course the similarity of humans and norn in Tyria is complicated by the fact that humans aren't originally from Tyria, their gods brought them through the Mists from an unnamed world thousands of years before GW1, so it's even more surprising that they look similar. Although that could be a factor in why Tyria was chosen - if the gods knew there was already a similar race living there it's a pretty safe bet it would be habitable for humans too. (We also don't actually know if that story is true - humans also say their gods created Tyria and we know that's not the case because there's a lot of history, like at least one Elder Dragon cycle, which pre-dates the gods arrival.)

The odds are high, but the examples you provide are a little off to compare with Tyria's case.Take the eyes for example.The eye was already developed when 'we' were single cell organisms.It was an organelle that could detect light, shadow, and after a little while, even differentiate light source directions.After developing into many multicellular organisms, this organelle developed just as well. But what you can see is that most animals developed this trait individually. And the higher the necessity of sight, the more developed this organ became. But as a result, there are almost no species with identical eyes, even if they look similar.

As a human species this happened with us, to.The Sapiens evolved alongside the Neanderthal, which was later pushed to extinction.Now, we cannot say what a Neanderthal might have looked like if they lived to today, but the Erectus and Neanderthal looked similar, but could still easily be told apart. The shape of skull, the spine, hands, small things, but distinct.Distinct enough to tell a zebra from a mill donkey, so to speak.

Now, if we apply this to human and norn, the number of differences become minute.Norn have a tendency to build up muscle and fat more than humans. Most likely due to life in the cold mountains. However, this seems environmental evolution.If humans lived there instead of Norn, wouldn't we have developed that trait as well, thus rendering it a null point.Then it only leaves size to tell a human and norn apart, and who is to say this wasnt caused by environmental evolution as well.Heck, it could even be habitual evolution, since norn are prone to transformations.Maybe spending so much time in bear form made it necessary for their 'human' form to be bigger as well.

[Gibson.4036]

The problem is that the current idea of 'races' is completely artificial. There's no real lines between the groups we define as races among real world humanity, just a spectrum of genetic diversity. As others have said, it makes a lot more sense to speak of one human race. Dividing based on skin color, facial structure, and other physical characteristics is just a way to try and split humanity into inferior and superior groups.

It makes sense to speak of "races" because that's how we refer to sentient species. There are many species of animal in real life, but only one race. In Tyria, there are many races.

As to the Norn, the females do seem to be upsized Humans. But look at the way the males are constructed. Their bodies are distinctly different in structure than human males.

[Craine.8162]

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I mean, what are the odds that two completely unique species evolve to look identical, with only size as a factor to tell them apart.

That's actually pretty common. Two species can evolve in two entirely different parts of the world and end up looking almost alike, simply because they evolved in similar circumstances. similar circumstances = similar "filters" for natural selection to kick in.A good example for this to grasp are probably sharks and dolphins. Sharks are fish, dolphins are mammals. Yet judging from the outside a dolphin has a lot more in common with a shark than with a human, right?We dealt with a lot more examples for that during advanced biology in school, but that was like 10 years ago so i dont remember them :smiley:

[Jimbru.6014]

Game and wiki lore basically says that the similarities between humans and Norn are a matter of coincidence and/or convergent evolution.

Biologically, Norn may look mostly human on the outside, but their physiology is different. Their size and their almost grotesque sexual dimorphism are only the obvious hints. It's stated on the wiki that Norns have higher body temps than humans (probably with a correspondingly high metabolism, explaining their big appetites) and that humans and Norn are not genetically compatible.

Culturally, the observable fact is that Norn are not as advanced as humans. Their architecture is all logs and dugouts, and their native technology is basically somewhere between Iron Age and Early Medieval.

[Jimbru.6014]

@Hyrai.8720 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I mean, what are the odds that two completely unique species evolve to look identical, with only size as a factor to tell them apart.

That's actually pretty common. Two species can evolve in two entirely different parts of the world and end up looking almost alike, simply because they evolved in similar circumstances. similar circumstances = similar "filters" for natural selection to kick in.A good example for this to grasp are probably sharks and dolphins. Sharks are fish, dolphins are mammals. Yet judging from the outside a dolphin has a lot more in common with a shark than with a human, right?We dealt with a lot more examples for that during advanced biology in school, but that was like 10 years ago so i dont remember them :smiley:

Bushbabies, lemurs, sugar gliders, and other similar looking critters around the world. They all look somewhat alike and fill the same general niche, but they're all from different places.