The economy of Tyria is destroyed

[Jimbru.6014]

The economy of Tyria is not destroyed. People are still buying and selling like always. Money and goods are flowing through the trading post and the hands of the general population. What has changed is that due to greater supply of goods, the trading post robber barons aren't making as much profit now, so threads like this get made to complain about the rich not getting richer as fast as usual. Wah kitten wah for them.

A DESTROYED game economy would be what happened to WoW over a decade ago when its first iteration of PVP was implemented. Blizzard made the mistake of implementing the PVP reward system IN THE OPEN WORLD before putting in the battlegrounds. The result was that pretty much the entire WoW world outside the cities became an open PVP free for all. Virtually all normal PVE activity ground to a halt thanks to the thundering herds of gankers killing everyone in sight. The auction house was practically empty of goods and what it did have was super expensive, because nobody could play the game normally to get anything to sell. As you can imagine, it was hardest on newer players because they didn't have money and couldn't buy gear. That situation lasted for WEEKS before Blizzard finally fixed things and the economy slowly returned to normal.

Returning the topic to GW2, I do have to note that for whatever reason, the exchange rate of gems for gold has been relatively high for at least the last several weeks since I started paying attention. Seems people are buying significantly more gold these days. Not sure why, but I'd bet that is having some effect as well.

[Friday.7864]

@Jimbru.6014 said:The economy of Tyria is not destroyed. People are still buying and selling like always. Money and goods are flowing through the trading post and the hands of the general population. What has changed is that due to greater supply of goods, the trading post robber barons aren't making as much profit now, so threads like this get made to complain about the rich not getting richer as fast as usual. Wah kitten wah for them.

A DESTROYED game economy would be what happened to WoW over a decade ago when its first iteration of PVP was implemented. Blizzard made the mistake of implementing the PVP reward system IN THE OPEN WORLD before putting in the battlegrounds. The result was that pretty much the entire WoW world outside the cities became an open PVP free for all. Virtually all normal PVE activity ground to a halt thanks to the thundering herds of gankers killing everyone in sight. The auction house was practically empty of goods and what it did have was super expensive, because nobody could play the game normally to get anything to sell. As you can imagine, it was hardest on newer players because they didn't have money and couldn't buy gear. That situation lasted for WEEKS before Blizzard finally fixed things and the economy slowly returned to normal.

Returning the topic to GW2, I do have to note that for whatever reason, the exchange rate of gems for gold has been relatively high for at least the last several weeks since I started paying attention. Seems people are buying significantly more gold these days. Not sure why, but I'd bet that is having some effect as well.

Destroyed is an exaggeration. It's just slowly being degraded to the point where the only thing worth farming will be a few metas where you run around in tha same pattern over and over again due to the overabundance of most materials and the lack of new long term material sinks.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Btw go google

gw2 economy destroyed site:en-forum.guildwars2.com

How many times has the game died? xD

[Svarty.8019]

@frareanselm.1925 said:There's no point to farm stuff to earn gold anymore.Thus the economy is DESTROYED?!

Now the only reason to play is to buy things from the gem store. .. working as intended.

[Lumikki.1725]

In my opion Guild wars 2 economy is partly failing and some part is still functional.

As for mats price dropping. I don't think it has really much impact in economy, except how fast you can farm to get more money. Also demand and supplay only works if they are in balance. In real world that balance exist because supplaying anyting cost money. In game world, how ever player can farm stuff without any major cost. While we can still traiding items in Guild Wars 2 just fine, bacause huge player base, it doesn't mean economy is healty, let me explain that.

Real Guild Wars 2 economy failure is in green and blue items and they relation crafting material. In my opinion also yellow items starts to show some symptoms, but it's not failed yet. Problem is that crafting material value is higher than items made from those materials. Now, this isn't just crafting side issue, but also monster hunting reward issue.

1. Craftig sideIf crafting material is more valuable than item made from those materials. Why to craft at all? Just sell those material. This is major issue in economy. Reason why people still craft is just for fun and get they crafting skill above trading post items. Meaning basicly "Account bound" stuff. Because most the other stuff is cheaper just buy then from TP and sell the mats.

2. Monster rewardMonster reward should be related challenge of the mobs. How ever different kind supply bags (inside are then crafting materials) are droped easyest monsters and more challenging group monster is droping items. So why to even hunt group monsters (I'm talking now blue and green item situation), if it's more profitable hunt lower end mobs for mats. When the rewards system where created, the value of items (blue and green) where higher, but now some items are sold the lowest possible price. Making hole monster reward system failing in these situation. Why even hunt challenged mobs if it's more rewarding to farm lower mobs.

In generally this situation is caused of way too high supplay of certain mats and items.

How to fix it?

Simple, reduce supplay of these problem stuff and replace then someting what aren't mats or items. Of cause rewards value should be related the challenge or/and time used.

Also maybe consider that do we need drops of items at all what can be crafted? With this size player base there should be enough crafters provide all the needed items. Of cause then there is "Free player accouns" who doesn't even have access to all items in TP.

[xWiroo.3841]

Maybe with the new xpac new legendaries will be crafted from entirely new materials, so t1-t6 will become obsolete :open_mouth:

[Linken.6345]

@xWiroo.3841 said:Maybe with the new xpac new legendaries will be crafted from entirely new materials, so t1-t6 will become obsolete :open_mouth:

Well they havent even said they are making a third generation legendary batch yet.Would be nice if they made the 3 underwater generation two that they decided to cut out before moving on to gen 3 I'd say.

[Jimbru.6014]

@Linken.6345 said:Would be nice if they made the 3 underwater generation two that they decided to cut out before moving on to gen 3 I'd say.

Most weapon collections at least since HoT haven't included aquatic weapons. Only way we're getting more aquatics is if the next expac has more aquatic focus.

[kharmin.7683]

@Jimbru.6014 said:Returning the topic to GW2, I do have to note that for whatever reason, the exchange rate of gems for gold has been relatively high for at least the last several weeks since I started paying attention. Seems people are buying significantly more gold these days. Not sure why, but I'd bet that is having some effect as well.They've been hovering in the low 120s for months with occasional spikes to the low 140s depending on gem store releases (copper-fed, for example).

[Psientist.6437]

I am not a professional economist but that won't stop me from making assumptions about the Tyrian economy.

The game experienced a widespread slump in demand for everything except high end skins. The best indicator of this is the slump in the gem/gold exchange rate that eventually stabilized. GW2 is a mature game, it is very unlikely that we are experiencing a persistent increase in the demand for gem to gold conversions. Especially if price deflation is real. The slump in the price of ascended crafting components and the continued increase in the price of Mystic coins are also strong indicators. Mystic coins are stabilizing which may indicate we've reached max demand for high end skins. In general, the demand for TP and gem goods is lower today than it was 5-6 months ago. The newest zone does seem generous and may represent an effort to induce new demand which would be healthy for the economy. The only way to induce new demand for an extent investment meta is to lower cost or add features. Imo, a new investment meta would be even healthier. Imo, cosmetics aren't enough and the focus on them becomes more cheesy as the story becomes more serious.

[Excursion.9752]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Excursion.9752 said:I am happy to see prices drop. I hope they stay that way.

Enjoy vendoring all your drops because TP is below vendor value I guess.

I actually use my materials. I have made 7 legendary items since the drop of the new map. So yeah I am enjoying the games economy right now. If I were you I would take advantage of it while you still can.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jimbru.6014 said:Returning the topic to GW2, I do have to note that for whatever reason, the exchange rate of gems for gold has been relatively high for at least the last several weeks since I started paying attention. Seems people are buying significantly more gold these days. Not sure why, but I'd bet that is having some effect as well.They've been hovering in the low 120s for months with occasional spikes to the low 140s depending on gem store releases (copper-fed, for example).

Because the Gem Store offerings have been relatively uninspiring. The last spike was when they released the new mount license, and those who needed gems / wanted the license had an impact...and it has trickled down again since.

Personally, I'm stocking up for August, where historically the conversion price spikes to about 145g / 400 gems, and rarely drops below 130-135g / 400 gems straight into the Wintersday Sale. Buy them now while you can imo.

[Josiah.2967]

This thread amuses me.

When I can buy more for my money, I take it as a sign that the economy is doing well. (More material for my gold)

The gems to gold thing is another story. As Turkey says, "Gem Store offerings have been relatively uninspiring." As someone who whips out my credit card for things I might use, I couldn't agree more with my spending habits as of late.

Look at the latest mount pack.Skycales are really lacking. Where is our Primeval, Starlight, or exalted Exalted. We get WVW mounts first.

[Endless Soul.5178]

I can't say I've really noticed any drastic changes on the Trading Post as I salvage and hoard all my materials for future use. Sometimes I think I'm the only one that does that.

[Jimbru.6014]

Speaking of the gem store, I would be genuinely surprised if there was anybody beside a handful of Mordrem roleplayers who wanted a Mordrem mount, yet here we are. Now, if Anet would make a Fern Hound jackal skin, like Sylvari players have been asking for ever since mount skins were implemented, that would sell like crazy.

[aspirine.6852]

It's a crafters heaven though..

[thehipone.6812]

It is not destroyed. Most items are functioning normally with supply and demand dictating pricing. While I'm not thrilled about the new faucet for mid-tier materials in the new map, prices have adjusted and seem to be stabilizing. It did make low-mid tier maps less rewarding, and I think that was a bad change, but perhaps supply will shrink eventually and prices adjust and so on. On another note, I just noticed that cinnamon is up to over 4 silver each. Does it drive people to gather green wood trees to get cinnamon? who knows, but the market has found its spot.

That said There are markets for some items are what I would consider broken, and they have been that way for a long time. Barbed thorns, most of the PoF materials, silver are some prime examples. Silver has apparently solid supply and no comparable sink. Prices for ingots vs. ore have "inverted" - one ore is worth more than the refined ingot, which isn't surprising since refinement gives crafting xp and the ingots can't be turned into zephyrite boxes. The zephyrite boxes can eat the ore for a limited time during the year but you get 2 boxes per stack and would need to fill up your storage to use it in that way. .

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Jimbru.6014 said:Speaking of the gem store, I would be genuinely surprised if there was anybody beside a handful of Mordrem roleplayers who wanted a Mordrem mount, yet here we are. Now, if Anet would make a Fern Hound jackal skin, like Sylvari players have been asking for ever since mount skins were implemented, that would sell like crazy.

Exchange rate is still hovering at around 122g / 400 gems. Usually when a 2000 Gem mount skin goes live, that exchange spikes to 135+ easily, as people scramble to buy gems for the latest mountfit...but I guess this time around folks are not biting.

Not complaining though, I've bought enough gems over the past month or so to get everything I have on my wishlist come the August anniversary sale.

[Hesione.9412]

@Friday.7864 said:

They're handing out clovers for doing the new map, no? Why not add some token system instead for doing various things like world bosses, dungeons or central tyria metas instead? I'd love a reason to do world bosses again outside of yearly events. Or dungeons outside of needing some gift or runes...

The clovers from the reward tracks bring PvE, finally, into line with PvP and WvW for obtaining clovers via reward tracks. Yes, you can get clovers from the vendor in Fractals. But the number of fractal relics required for one clover, compared to doing PvP or WvW reward tracks, makes this a much slower path for getting clovers.

Now all they need to do is add Gift of the Battle to the PvE reward tracks and no WvW players will complain about PvE players coming into WvW only to get that Gift.

Win-win.

[Urud.4925]

So if the game has meaningless loot "meh, I have nothing to do, the farm is so poor, we need better rewards for our time and efforts". If the loot increases "meh, now mats' price lowered, I cannot sell my stuff at high price".Idk, what do ppl want? Increase only your loot? It's an MMO, if we get better rewards, everyone will get them. And I don't think it's something bad.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:

Enjoy vendoring all your drops because TP is below vendor value I guess.

Impossible to 'TP' an item below vendor value.

True, normally there is limit: merchant price + fee.But actually, there is sometimes returning bug when you can list an item below the limit.

For example: Piece of Ambrite normally can be sold for 55 copper minimum (46 value + fee), without profit.But when the bug appears, you can list it for 54 (1 copper loss), which can be checked on the chart:https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/66637-Piece-of-Ambrite

[Jimbru.6014]

@"Lumikki.1725" said:

Real Guild Wars 2 economy failure is in green and blue items and they relation crafting material. In my opinion also yellow items starts to show some symptoms, but it's not failed yet. Problem is that crafting material value is higher than items made from those materials. Now, this isn't just crafting side issue, but also monster hunting reward issue.

1. Craftig sideIf crafting material is more valuable than item made from those materials. Why to craft at all? Just sell those material. This is major issue in economy. Reason why people still craft is just for fun and get they crafting skill above trading post items. Meaning basicly "Account bound" stuff. Because most the other stuff is cheaper just buy then from TP and sell the mats.

2. Monster rewardMonster reward should be related challenge of the mobs. How ever different kind supply bags (inside are then crafting materials) are droped easyest monsters and more challenging group monster is droping items. So why to even hunt group monsters (I'm talking now blue and green item situation), if it's more profitable hunt lower end mobs for mats. When the rewards system where created, the value of items (blue and green) where higher, but now some items are sold the lowest possible price. Making hole monster reward system failing in these situation. Why even hunt challenged mobs if it's more rewarding to farm lower mobs.

In generally this situation is caused of way too high supplay of certain mats and items.

How to fix it?

Simple, reduce supplay of these problem stuff and replace then someting what aren't mats or items. Of cause rewards value should be related the challenge or/and time used.

Also maybe consider that do we need drops of items at all what can be crafted? With this size player base there should be enough crafters provide all the needed items. Of cause then there is "Free player accouns" who doesn't even have access to all items in TP.

You have a valid point that unidentified blue and green items are vastly oversupplied in level 80 content compared to the demand for them. They drop in vast numbers, but practically nobody at level 80 still uses blues and greens, so those items are worth more for the salvaged materials than actual use. Unfortunately, changing that would cut off many players' primary source of income, so it's sort of a catch-22 in terms of the game economy.

As for "why craft at all" -- level 80 gear (exotic through legendary) and cooking are important. Plus the people leveling up their crafting, are in turn supplying lower level goods to the TP for new players and characters leveling up.

[Zaxares.5419]

As others have mentioned, people are mistaking a "I can't earn as much gold as I used to" situation for "the economy is being destroyed" situation. The truth is that, from ANet's position as developer and economist, maps like DWC are GOOD for the economy, because it means that many more goods are being traded between players, each time taking a chunk of gold out of circulation, which prevents the overall economic inflation from growing out of control. Giving players more money via mats actually causes DEflation, because that gold going into your pocket has to come from another player.

My suspicion is that ANet gave us DWC in order both to increase the supply of Fine mats in general, and also to spur player interest in acquiring Legendaries (which, like it or not, are THE primary long-term sink for both coin and materials that keep the engines of the economy running). With the Legendary Armory on the horizon, this might be a way of pre-empting player pain in the future by ensuring that players will see Legendary acquisition as "within their reach" rather than an insurmountable obstacle. GW2 is an 8-year old MMO by now; any measures that will help attract and retain new blood by giving them plenty of goals to strive for needs to be its primary focus, and that means keeping barriers of entry low.

If anything, I think ANet needs to turn up the supply faucet more for ultra-rare items like infusions, so that even more of the wealth generated in-game can be consumed without having to go through grey-market trading. (Which is really bad because it bypasses the TP tax altogether.)

[Doleron.3719]

Worrying about the economy in a fantasy game. That's a new one. If Tyria needed a item stimulus package, all ANet has to do is push a button labeled "make ten zillion of everything and put it on the TP".

[Raizel.1839]

The cause in the new map, it rewards too many materials!