Li / Killproof for Strikes are a Problem

[Fueki.4753]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Add kill proof in Strikes, problem solved. Or not.

hides

Let's add a spoon to each Strike mission that can count as the kill proof.They could add a collection for them. Let's just call it "Striking Spoons".

[maddoctor.2738]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Add kill proof in Strikes, problem solved. Or not.

hides

Let's add a spoon to each Strike mission that can count as the kill proof.They could add a collection for them. Let's just call it "Striking Spoons".

As long as each Strike Mission drops a different spoon it should be fine. The problem we see here is that "kill proofs" of one content (Raids) are posted as a requirement in other content (Strikes), even though Strikes are supposed to be the pre-content for Raids and not the other way around. Maybe if the content in question already had some kind of "proofing" we wouldn't be in this situation. Furthermore, if Strikes had their own way of proofing maybe they could be used in their intended purpose, as a bridge for Raids, as groups might start requiring "kill proofs" from Strikes to take players into the easier Raids. Now it's all backwards.

edit: this situation is all the result of some vocal forum posters being against the idea of "kill proofs" in the first place, Arenanet caved in and didn't add any kill proofs in Strikes and here we are.

[lare.5129]

people say great idea: make Li and raid kp available buy for gems.

[maddoctor.2738]

@lare.5129 said:people say great idea: make Li and raid kp available buy for gems.

Good idea. Then groups will start asking for 1000+ LI or 250+ KP to filter out those that bought their way in. Need better ways of identifying experienced players, not make it worse.

[lare.5129]

so continue experiment, again join 200li group, not link, only say role. Strike done. May be people cry only because they like cry ?

[Craine.8162]

Ecoxiss: 80% of groups in lfg require killproofs. remove them!ANet: removes killproofsstrikes have 80% less playersEcoxiss: :open_mouth:

PS:li/kp squads in strike lfg are 50% at max btw. there are tons of open squads. and if there doesn't happen to be one, here's a pro tip that you probably haven't heard yet: create your own squad!

PPS:please, honestly, tell me why you want to remove kp from lfg.people keep complaining about toxic elitists, especially in raids, but also in strikes and fractals. kp are their way to save you from them!! why is it you want to force them to play with you so badly?

[Eramonster.2718]

@"lare.5129" said:so continue experiment, again join 200li group, not link, only say role. Strike done. May be people cry only because they like cry ?There's a quote : "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

It doesn't solve the problem OP is having except proving it can be done without KP/Li. But do get your points.

There's nothing stopping OP from starting a group. If groups with requirement fills slower compared to groups without, there shouldn't be any significant difference to fill up. If afraid to lead due to afraid of failing the content, find a way to work it out, grasp what's missing or needs to be improved etc and place a lower requirement/standard for it to be done.

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

Or just dont do strikes if u dont wanna see LI/KP squads

[Tails.9372]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Maybe if the content in question already had some kind of "proofing" we wouldn't be in this situation.Isn't the cloak thing basically just that? Also, some strikes have like 0 DPS requirements. An average DPS of 1625 per player can get the job done and for some of them 4875 DPS per player is enough to get all the rewards. And if you really want to put up non raid requirements just ask for some of the single player titles, everyone with "The Blazing Light" should be able to do well enough.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Maybe if the content in question already had some kind of "proofing" we wouldn't be in this situation.Isn't the cloak thing basically just that? Also, some strikes have like 0 DPS requirements. An average DPS of 1625 per player can get the job done and for some of them 4875 DPS per player is enough to get all the rewards. And if you really want to put up non raid requirements just ask for some of the single player titles, everyone with "The Blazing Light" should be able to do well enough.

Strike groups only have requirements for specific strikes or full clears (which will include all strikes available). A group that goes only for Shiverpeak Pass won't have any requirements posted. If it was up to me I would use a title like that, it shows that the player has a good understanding of the game's combat and build system.

[Blueberry.8095]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Add kill proof in Strikes, problem solved. Or not.

hides

Let's add a spoon to each Strike mission that can count as the kill proof.They could add a collection for them. Let's just call it "Striking Spoons".

Rip, bank space war II

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Arcaniaxs.4519" said:

If they remove kps then how would top raiders know how to get a good group?Easy and hardmode scenario would be like the discussions for ez and hard mode for raids

LOOL !! This questions the meaning of "top raiders". If a raider needs a "good group" to complete the WoJ or Boneskinner for example, then he is not a "good" raider. He is at the same level with every random player building a PU Group. So, why is he asking for KP?

Why I said this - I pugged all the strikes. Mostly after doing Shiverpeaks/Fraenir/Kodans, if the players considered the team to be good, then we continued. And most of the times we killed Bone and Completed WoJ from the first try. Again - why the need of KP? If ONE of the players is a very good one, he can decide every Strike.

My opininion here is that the reason is not the desire to find a good group. The Strikes are easy enough to be pugged. The real reason is the feeling of belonging to a small "elite". And the desire to display this - in a public announcement. "We can enter here, in this group, you cannot" So, not the skill is the problem here. But the ....

I stop here. I had sanctions on this Forum for statements much more innocent than what I wanted to say.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Cristalyan.5728" said:My opininion here is that the reason is not the desire to find a good group. The Strikes are easy enough to be pugged. The real reason is the feeling of belonging to a small "elite". And the desire to display this - in a public announcement. "We can enter here, in this group, you cannot" So, not the skill is the problem here. But the ....I find it really surprising anyone would cling to this kind of negativity so hard.

[Counter Terrorist.7421]

Gotta say it's pretty cringe with 250 Li in strikes. But they make whatever lfg they want. So what if they want to make a clown of em self, It's not like your missing out. In fact you now know who to avoid. You don't need that negativity in you're life. Be reasonable, just ignore em and continue life.

[kmfart.7480]

The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are way too harsh, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

[kanemi.4903]

@kmfart.7480 said:The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are way too harsh, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

[trixantea.1230]

Shiverpeaks Pass is way to easy and can be done by any group of players regardless of their skill and IQ while WoJ/Bs can be a bit too difficult for players with average skills.

I think that all strikes should be balanced around the same level of difficulty. If high skilled players find them too easy, it wouldn't hurt to givem a cm mode with higher rewards. Anet managed to implement that very well in fractals and I think that they should do the same thing for strikes.

[Fueki.4753]

@kanemi.4903 said:

@kmfart.7480 said:The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are

way too harsh

, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"trixantea.1230" said:I think that all strikes should be balanced around the same level of difficulty.

That's not a very good idea. Instead the current version of escalating difficulty is much better, you start at the low end and slowly "climb" the difficulty ladder. What would having all strikes at the same difficulty level accomplish?

@Fueki.4753 said:That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

They already did add multiple difficulty options by making Strikes of different difficulty levels. That the community is not taking advantage of that is quite puzzling.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"kmfart.7480" said:The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are way too harsh, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

And why is that a "problem" again? There are a few strike missions out already of vastly different difficulty levels, a player can very easily pick and choose the strike that has the difficulty that's appropriate for them. If you find a strike mission "way too harsh" then you can always try the easier ones, master them, get gold and eventually the more difficult ones will become easy. The design of Strike Missions helps with that progression, but I guess if players are unwilling to use the Strike Missions for progression, they won't use them to progress into Raids. And that's the root of the problem with Strike Missions, they are meant to be progression content, but they are not treated as such.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Arcaniaxs.4519" said:

If they remove kps then how would top raiders know how to get a good group?Easy and hardmode scenario would be like the discussions for ez and hard mode for raids

LOOL !! This questions the meaning of "top raiders". If a raider needs a "good group" to complete the WoJ or Boneskinner for example, then he is not a "good" raider. He is at the same level with every random player building a PU Group. So, why is he asking for KP?

Why I said this - I pugged all the strikes. Mostly after doing Shiverpeaks/Fraenir/Kodans, if the players considered the team to be good, then we continued. And most of the times we killed Bone and Completed WoJ from the first try. Again - why the need of KP? If ONE of the players is a very good one, he can decide every Strike.So, you can solo every strike, including WoJ and Boneskinner? Because that's what your claim is about - being able to carry other 9 players even if their input in the fight is minimal or zero. If so, i'd really like a video of it.

@"kanemi.4903" said:But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.They would be "too easy" for raiders. They are not meant fo be a content for raiders, though, but for people that might someday

become

raiders. Being easy for raiders should be an expected situation.

Still, Shiverpeak could probably be a little bit more difficult. As it is, the jumping puzzle before it (and the snowball in the corridor at the very beginning) are the real enemies here. WoJ and Boneskinner on the other hand should probably be made a bit easier (in case of WoJ i'd say easing a bit on multiple mechanics at the same time in the last phase should do it, but Boneskinner would need a more in-depth rebalance).

[Fueki.4753]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.They already did add multiple difficulty options by making Strikes of different difficulty levels.There is

one

difficulty option per Strike Mission.Why not have two or three per Strike Mission?

This could please the people who want Shiverpeaks Pass to be harder, the people who want Boneskinner to be easier and the people with wishes in between.

[Craine.8162]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Arcaniaxs.4519" said:

If they remove kps then how would top raiders know how to get a good group?Easy and hardmode scenario would be like the discussions for ez and hard mode for raids

LOOL !! This questions the meaning of "top raiders". If a raider needs a "good group" to complete the WoJ or Boneskinner for example, then he is not a "good" raider. He is at the same level with every random player building a PU Group. So, why is he asking for KP?

Why I said this - I pugged all the strikes. Mostly after doing Shiverpeaks/Fraenir/Kodans, if the players considered the team to be good, then we continued. And most of the times we killed Bone and Completed WoJ from the first try. Again - why the need of KP? If ONE of the players is a very good one, he can decide every Strike.

My opininion here is that the reason is not the desire to find a good group. The Strikes are easy enough to be pugged. The real reason is

the feeling of belonging to a small "elite"

. And the desire to display this - in a public announcement. "We can enter here, in this group, you cannot" So, not the skill is the problem here. But the ....

I stop here. I had sanctions on this Forum for statements much more innocent than what I wanted to say.

your post shows that you have no idea about raiding or strikes whatsoever. (or the "elitist" community in that regard)being a "top raider" doesnt just mean killing a boss. its about consistency and time. you can kill a boss once without whiping. but can you do it 50 times, again and again, without a single whipe? pugs whipe on a regular basis for a lot of stupid reasons.can you do a W1-4 fullclear in <2h? a lot of pugs cannot even manage to clear W1 in 1h - and then players start leaving the squad.

same goes for strikes. can you kill bone and WoJ 50 times, again and again, without a single whipe, while getting gold reward every single time?i can tell you from experience: a lot of pugs dont even manage to get gold on fraenir or kodans!so at this point its not even just about time anymore. its about getting more loot!and btw; while it is indeed possible to solo kill 1 or 2 strikes - its impossible to get gold rewards doing so. so no, even if youre a top raider, you can not carry a team made of 9 leechers.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Hyrai.8720 said:and btw; while it is indeed possible to solo kill 1 or 2 strikesHe wasn't talking about soloing Shiverpeaks. He specifically mentioned WoJ and Boneskinner. I'd really love to see him solo those. Especially on a consistent basis, and fast enough for it to be reasonable to do in a farm mode, and not just once for fun (like those few hours long Cairn kills, for example).

[maddoctor.2738]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.They already did add multiple difficulty options by making Strikes of different difficulty levels.There is

one

difficulty option per Strike Mission.

One difficulty option per Strike Mission but multiple Strike Missions of varying difficulty. Same result

Why not have two or three per Strike Mission?

Because that would increase the development time of Strike Missions and serve no purpose, there is already an escalating difficulty in Strike Missions, why would we need multiple difficulties of the same one? Want an easy one? Try Shiverpeak Pass, want a hard one, run Boneskinner. There is choice for everyone, why spend extra development time in a failed attempt to make all strike missions of similar level?

This could please the people who want Shiverpeaks Pass to be harder, the people who want Boneskinner to be easier and the people with wishes in between.

Only it wouldn't actually please anyone. How much "harder" do you suppose Shiverpeak Pass should become to "please" those people that want a harder version? Similarly, how much easier do you think Boneskinner should become to "please" those that want it to be easier? What if someone finds the hard boneskinner too hard and the easy boneskinner too easy? Add more tiers? At how many tiers do you think everyone will be finally satisfied?