More Health Points for Guardian - in PvE

[SeTect.5918]

Hey there,i suggest more Health Points for Guardian in PvE, the reason is that every melee class has a good health points amount of at least 14.000 hp or more, but for guardian it is still at 11.645, which makes greatsword or sword + focus very difficult sometimes.

Example:-I am just running around with berserk gear in auric basin and doing heropoints..."whoops, did i just get a 12.500 damage hit? oh wait, i was 1 hit" (i did put on the signet for 10% less damage, so without that signet, it would have been even more damage).-"Phew, heropoints in auric basin are so difficult sometimes, lets go to another map and do a bandit champion like the one in kessex hills or queens dale, oh why am i the only one that died that fast?"

In my eyes there is no reason giving a melee class a that low amount of HP in PvE, its just annoying dying that fast and being forced to use gear that gives u less damage like marodeur armor.(Also in PvP you are forced to use Marodeur armor because you will die otherwise in 0.5 second or even less, but thats a point i dont want to discuss in this discussion)

I suggest giving guardian at least a health amount of 14.500 in PvE, the reason behind this suggestion is that guardian has a bit more damage then Warrior or Reaper(which has even the bonus HP of Shroud) but guardian has Aegis or other defending skills, so it has still 4.500 less HP, so its reasonable in my eyes. It would make guardian more fun to play in pve because you dont die like a fly then.Hope most of you agree with that. Tell me what u think about that. c:Greetings!

[Taril.8619]

@"SeTect.5918" said:Hey there,i suggest more Health Points for Guardian in PvE, the reason is that every melee class has a good health points amount of at least 14.000 hp or more, but for guardian it is still at 11.645, which makes greatsword or sword + focus very difficult sometimes.

Thief and Elementalist both melee and have the same health.

Guardian has low health because it gets Aegis to block big hits and constant regen to deal with smaller hits from its Virtues.

If you're finding your health to be too low still... Get some gear with Vitality on like everyone else does. For example, Marauder gear is popular for OW builds because it gives a bunch more health while being still decent damage.

Or look to try and improve your ability to dodge/activate virtues or utilities (Such as "Retreat") to give yourself Aegis to avoid these large attacks or to provide Protection to help mitigate them.

Or use Focus skill 5 or the Shelter healing skill to block the attack. Or Sword skill 2/GS skill 3 to blind the enemy for that attack. Or use Renewed Focus to become invulnerable.

[Virdo.1540]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will

[SeTect.5918]

@Taril.8619 said:

@"SeTect.5918" said:

Hey there,

i suggest more Health Points for Guardian in PvE, the reason is that every melee class has a good health points amount of at least 14.000 hp or more, but for guardian it is still at 11.645, which makes greatsword or sword + focus very difficult sometimes.

Thief and Elementalist both melee and have the same health.

Guardian has low health because it gets Aegis to block big hits and constant regen to deal with smaller hits from its Virtues.

If you're finding your health to be too low still... Get some gear with Vitality on like everyone else does. For example, Marauder gear is popular for OW builds because it gives a bunch more health while being still decent damage.

Or look to try and improve your ability to dodge/activate virtues or utilities (Such as "Retreat") to give yourself Aegis to avoid these large attacks or to provide Protection to help mitigate them.

Or use Focus skill 5 or the Shelter healing skill to block the attack. Or Sword skill 2/GS skill 3 to blind the enemy for that attack. Or use Renewed Focus to become invulnerable.

Yea but i didnt want mention them because it should be a discussion only for 1 class for now.

I never saw an enemy giving me a 500 dmg hit or less, the Regeneration is too low and aegis is only once every 40 seconds, and if you make 1 mistake with dodging or blocking, you are instant dead, other classes like warrior just tank it away.

With marodeur armor as Guardian you will be a warrior but with less hp and damage.

[SeTect.5918]

@"Virdo.1540" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will

Losing ¼ or half damage for 1 Skill?

[Virdo.1540]

@SeTect.5918 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will

Losing ¼ or half damage for 1 Skill?

U asked for more health, not for extra stats without tradeoff

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

Hey there,

i suggest more Health Points for Guardian in PvE, the reason is that every melee class has a good health points amount of at least 14.000 hp or more, but for guardian it is still at 11.645, which makes greatsword or sword + focus very difficult sometimes.

Thief and Elementalist both melee and have the same health.

Guardian has low health because it gets Aegis to block big hits and constant regen to deal with smaller hits from its Virtues.

If you're finding your health to be too low still... Get some gear with Vitality on like everyone else does. For example, Marauder gear is popular for OW builds because it gives a bunch more health while being still decent damage.

Or look to try and improve your ability to dodge/activate virtues or utilities (Such as "Retreat") to give yourself Aegis to avoid these large attacks or to provide Protection to help mitigate them.

Or use Focus skill 5 or the Shelter healing skill to block the attack. Or Sword skill 2/GS skill 3 to blind the enemy for that attack. Or use Renewed Focus to become invulnerable.

Yea but i didnt want mention them because it should be a discussion only for 1 class for now.

I never saw an enemy giving me a 500 dmg hit or less, the Regeneration is too low and aegis is only once every 40 seconds, and if you make 1 mistake with dodging or blocking, you are instant dead, other classes like warrior just tank it away.

With marodeur armor as Guardian you will be a warrior but with less hp and damage.

You can literally have 24k HP on Guardian and still near-Berserker levels of damage. The Virtues stack with many other effects (like Virtue of Resolve can give Endurance regeneration, which stacks with heal-on-dodge), and Aegis comes from many sources.

Guardian is nearly immortal when played right, especially Firebrand.

[SeTect.5918]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will

Losing ¼ or half damage for 1 Skill?

U asked for more health, not for extra stats without tradeoff

But i said that i am not using marodeur armor because i dont wanna be forced to use gear which gives me less damage, so why would i use an other whole specialization and lose even more damage

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will

Losing ¼ or half damage for 1 Skill?

U asked for more health, not for extra stats without tradeoff

But i said that i am not using marodeur armor because i dont wanna be forced to use gear which gives me less damage, so why would i use an other whole specialization and lose even more damage

If guardian was to be given more health as baseline, the damage it brings will have to be reduced to make it.. whats the word.. oh yeah.. Balanced

[SeTect.5918]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

Hey there,

i suggest more Health Points for Guardian in PvE, the reason is that every melee class has a good health points amount of at least 14.000 hp or more, but for guardian it is still at 11.645, which makes greatsword or sword + focus very difficult sometimes.

Thief and Elementalist both melee and have the same health.

Guardian has low health because it gets Aegis to block big hits and constant regen to deal with smaller hits from its Virtues.

If you're finding your health to be too low still... Get some gear with Vitality on like everyone else does. For example, Marauder gear is popular for OW builds because it gives a bunch more health while being still decent damage.

Or look to try and improve your ability to dodge/activate virtues or utilities (Such as "Retreat") to give yourself Aegis to avoid these large attacks or to provide Protection to help mitigate them.

Or use Focus skill 5 or the Shelter healing skill to block the attack. Or Sword skill 2/GS skill 3 to blind the enemy for that attack. Or use Renewed Focus to become invulnerable.

Yea but i didnt want mention them because it should be a discussion only for 1 class for now.

I never saw an enemy giving me a 500 dmg hit or less, the Regeneration is too low and aegis is only once every 40 seconds, and if you make 1 mistake with dodging or blocking, you are instant dead, other classes like warrior just tank it away.

With marodeur armor as Guardian you will be a warrior but with less hp and damage.

You can literally have 24k HP on Guardian and still near-Berserker levels of damage. The Virtues stack with many other effects (like Virtue of Resolve can give Endurance regeneration, which stacks with heal-on-dodge), and Aegis comes from many sources.

Guardian is nearly immortal when played right, especially Firebrand.

Yea thats true but that not about greatsword or like sword + focus, you would need to go for codition damage for that hp and still good damage, like as you said for firebrand. As greatsword user you have to use the specialization that give you 25% more crit chance while retribution, otherwise you wont have enough crit chance for good damage, well, i think it would be like that

[Teratus.2859]

It's set this way for balance reasons I think.

In fact the only armour class that is missing a high HP stat is Medium..Light and Heavy armour classes both have a low, medium and high Hp professions but medium armour doesn't.

Guardian has ways to avoid or sustain even on damage builds, but damage isn't everything and it sounds like you're running a glass canon which is always going to struggle against anything spongy enough to tank your damage.Times like that it's best to go range or add some defensive/sustain potential into your build to deal with it.

[SeTect.5918]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will

Losing ¼ or half damage for 1 Skill?

U asked for more health, not for extra stats without tradeoff

But i said that i am not using marodeur armor because i dont wanna be forced to use gear which gives me less damage, so why would i use an other whole specialization and lose even more damage

If guardian was to be given more health as baseline, the damage it brings will have to be reduced to make it.. whats the word.. oh yeah.. Balanced

Uhm sorry but...look at reaper that has like 35.000 hp with berserk (shroud hp added) and u will know what is unbalanced, it will still deal op damage or to warrior that can put a heal on that makes it Impossible to die and heal by the damage it got, this is not balanced

[SeTect.5918]

@Teratus.2859 said:It's set this way for balance reasons I think.

In fact the only armour class that is missing a high HP stat is Medium..Light and Heavy armour classes both have a low, medium and high Hp professions but medium armour doesn't.

Guardian has ways to avoid or sustain even on damage builds, but damage isn't everything and it sounds like you're running a glass canon which is always going to struggle against anything spongy enough to tank your damage.Times like that it's best to go range or add some defensive/sustain potential into your build to deal with it.

Yea i was always like a big damage dealing glass cannon. It Always worked with all classes except for Guardian because its a melee low hp class that die after i did put out all my damage, sometimes i even die before even putting all my damage, even with shield of Courage, so i dont get it why this game forced me to go for marodeur and lose damage, tbh now.

[steki.1478]

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@SeTect.5918 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will

Losing ¼ or half damage for 1 Skill?

U asked for more health, not for extra stats without tradeoff

But i said that i am not using marodeur armor because i dont wanna be forced to use gear which gives me less damage, so why would i use an other whole specialization and lose even more damage

If guardian was to be given more health as baseline, the damage it brings will have to be reduced to make it.. whats the word.. oh yeah.. Balanced

Uhm sorry but...look at reaper that has like 35.000 hp with berserk (shroud hp added) and u will know what is unbalanced, it will still deal op damage or to warrior that can put a heal on that makes it Impossible to die and heal by the damage it got,

this

is not balanced

Reaper is the weakest dps in group pve though.

[Taril.8619]

@SeTect.5918 said:Yea but i didnt want mention them because it should be a discussion only for 1 class for now.

But you did mention them. Via your statement about "Every melee class has 14,000 health"

Meanwhile, these 2 classes have the same amount of health as Guardian, but less armour and no-where near the same number of tools to stay alive.

@SeTect.5918 said:I never saw an enemy giving me a 500 dmg hit or less, the Regeneration is too low and aegis is only once every 40 seconds, and if you make 1 mistake with dodging or blocking, you are instant dead, other classes like warrior just tank it away.

Aegis once every 40 seconds (And again on demand if you use the virtue) should be all that you need if you play well. Since, again, Thief and Elementalist exist and they don't even get Aegis every 40 seconds.

If you make 1 mistake with dodging and blocking you are instantly dead? That sounds like pretty much every glass cannon build. Even medium health classes like Revenant, Engineer, Ranger and Mesmer can get one-shot if they mess up their dodges/blocks while running full glass.

All the while, still not having the same number of defensive tools as Guardian.

@SeTect.5918 said:With marodeur armor as Guardian you will be a warrior but with less hp and damage.

Actually, Guardian deals more damage innately than Warrior. So sacrificing damage would put you down to about Warrior level while your innate survivability goes up to Warrior level.

Then you get all the defensive tools that being a Guardian brings (Including a block skill on one of your best damage weapon, Focus)

Guardian is one of the tankiest classes in the game. It just requires you to play better in order to use its kit effectively. It is also one of the most damaging too (Unlike say, Thief which is squishier and has less damage output and very few defensive tools in its damage build)

Warrior has high innate health, but has less tools to protect it. In addition, its damage build actually makes it squishier than light armour classes because Berserker E-Spec has a huge toughness penalty on it. However, many Warriors will trade off their damage and go for the tankier Spellbreaker E-Spec because they value surviving over dealing more damage, some will even opt for Marauder gear on top of that due to how much extra health it provides for how little damage it costs.

Just for information, with full ascended gear (No food/utilities, runes or infusions):

Berserker gear puts you to: 2382 power, 1960 precision (50.71% crit chance) and 960 ferocity (214% crit damage)Marauder gear puts you to: 2172 power, 2172 precision (60.81% crit chance) and 633 ferocity (192.2% crit damage) with an extra 633 vitality (6,330 health)

That's a difference of 210 power and 21.8% crit damage for 6k health and 10.1% crit chance. That's not going to gimp your damage, especially with more crits helping average your damage out (It can also mean dropping a Sigil of Accuracy and picking up something that provides more damage, such as Sigil of the Night or even getting Sigil of Strength/Sigil of Bloodlust to end up with more power than the Berserker gear)

For more numbers, 50.71% crit chance with 214% crit damage means an average damage modifier of 108.5%. Whereas 60.81% crit chance with 192.2% crit damage means an average damage modifier of 116.8%.

This means that Marauder gear can actually deal more damage than Berserker with various builds, especially ones that can get additional ferocity or extra scaling from Precision. Berserker only maintains its "BiS" status under ideal conditions where you're in optimized parties that provide permenant 25 Might stacks and Fury (As well as auras such as Spotter and Banners to help reach 100% crit)

[ChillyKoti.1928]

Marauder is actually a very good stat. You shouldn't be ashamed to use it.I can understand to play glass canon in fractals or raid since they have organised groups, but in open world, you should bring more survivability or else, you'll always die in 1 hit.

As many others said, Marauder stats is very good. (Even gives you more Precision than Berserker).

You can change some trinkets for more defensive stats;

Another maybe redundant thing, practice makes perfect. Guardian naturally have many defensive tools to defend itself (aegis, blinds, heal).

What build are you playing? I'm gonna assume a meta greatsword sword/focus build on metabattle or snowcrow.

On greatsword you already have:-Blind and heal (skill 3)-Retaliation on skill 4-Pull on skill 5 (which can interrupt)

On sword/focus you have:-Blind on skill 2-Projectile defense on skill 3-3 blocks on skill 5.

You also have the 3 virtues (f1 has blind if used with radiance, f2 heals and f3 blocks on demand)Don't be shy to use other utilities that can defend you too.

For Open World, I can suggest this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAEx3lVwoYIMP2IOyL/nVA-zRZYBB5/EUgYU/OjIUBVIFU8A-e

Same weapons as yours, more survivability and still decent damage.

Tips to upkeep retaliation, f1 grants light aura wich gives you retaliation if you are hit. When aegis blocks, you gain retaliation. Using greatsword 3 on a light field grants light aura (ex, skill 4 and 3 right after).

You might not like it, but I disagree with improving hp of Guardian since the class is by default pretty strong.

Keep in mind that you can always play with your spec and utilities. In Open World, it's important to have at least:-1 stunbreak-1 condi clean-decent healing-still priorise damage.

Hopes this helped! :)

[Infusion.7149]

You can run marauder's instead of berserker, or minstrel's instead of harrier.

You can run force of will if running a heal build.

Guardian is the last class that needs a buff.

Any firebrand build running the mantra heal basically has way more blocks than any other class. One aegis proc blocking a large attack is far more useful than more health.

[jan.7915]

You cant die by one hit because aegis.Guardian health is fine, if you want hp run marauder.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

Getting insta down from full health is never fun but you just failed to avoid a big attack. It's fair game!Between dodges, focus 5, virtue of courage passive and active, and easy blind with sword 2 or virtue of justice, it is easy to prevent most damage.

If you need more, you can pick valor and/or honor. A fully traited litany of wrath is almost godmode.

Yes, you will loose damage, but better than getting killed, especially your case soloing GROUP content. And if not solo, it is easy to rally.I regularly see some dragon hunters getting downed in 10 seconds vs a strong champion when I can survive without much trouble on my leveling elementalist...Guardian defense is exceptional but you need to learn those mechanics and be ready to drop some dps for more defense when it is required. Too many players are blindly following meta builds without any change, and inevitably dying to hard content.Guardian defenses are mostly active, you need to use them at the right moment, which implies knowing your enemies.

You can also still get crit cap without retaliation. All other professions do it. FYI, guardian were using valkyrie gear in the past before trait nerf.

Reaper might get 35k health, but very few damage prevention. If he play minions, he is playing easy mode because AI is bad in this game. Without minions, its sustain is not great.

Warrior can take quite a beating but he needs some passives and/or spellbreaker spec. If not, he is just delaying his death, slowly but surely. If he took those sustain, you will deal far more aoe damage than he will ever do.

[Genesis.8572]

Tips. Marauder gear. It's acceptable, if not preferred, for a lot of low to mid health professions in PVE. No shame in using it.

Rune sets that provide 10 percent bonus health (e.g., Vampirism, Durability, Dwayna, Flock, Balthazar, etc.). Vampirism, in particular, is great for Open World because you are constantly being topped back to health after killing mobs.

[ASP.8093]

So your argument is "I want to do the most damage possible with zero trade-offs, on a class with rather amazing sustain and active defense, which I also refuse to use because I want to do the most damage possible so I can't be bothered to balance my gear OR my skills OR my traits?"

[Yasai.3549]

The reason why Guardians have lesser health than other Soldier classes is because of their overwhelming defensive utilities which come BAKED INTO THE PROFESSION.

If yur feeling extremely squishy as a Guardian, yu can either stack more vitality or simply learn how to use yur defensive utilities better.No need to feel daunted by learning what hits hard in the game, just take yur time with the game and it will come naturally.

FYI : HoT HPs are known to be extremely punishing and very few builds can actually solo them comfortably.

[WorldofBay.8160]

glasscannon stats should never be the way to go in pve. if you manage your abilities well you might be able to go glasscannon but a glasscannon build is not a brawler build, it is a group build. you need someone to tank for you to shine ... or rather you should need because this game isn't consequent enough on stopping glasscannons.

if you expect to survive big hits on a glasscannon ... well then you expect the game to be super easy and boring. i can't help you on that because i don't want a game to be super easy and boring.

in other games you don't die 1hit but other games don't have the means of damage mitigation this game has. a hit of let's say 1/3 of the hp of a tank means a lot if the tank can't negate further damage and has to heal against ongoing dps. in this game however the tank can negate further damage and heal hp back with ease. that said, big hits in pve have to count and be real big (pve opponents don't react and interrupt your heal). this might kill your glasscannon 1hit but well you chose a group stat without having a group that supported it or without having the knowledge to avoid the hit/deflect it to someone else who can take it, so you die. doesn't sound like a problem.

if you run full soldier gear and get ohko'd then there is something to complain about, no matter on which class it happened ... well unless it is a basic game mechanic like if you fail to see the white area in vinewrath or run into the central brandstorm and get unmounted.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I just wish they restored the heal to Zealous Blade. It used to be that striking someone with a Greatsword gave you a small heal, but back in 2018 they changed the trait to only proc a heal off a whirl finisher in a light field (basically, Guardian using a GS), then in 2019 they just removed the heal completely without really explaining why they felt it needed to be removed.

As much as I love my Guard, when I want to do open world metas or living story, I'll just bring my Reaper

[Ryou.2398]

I think its the simple matter of certain builds need an hp boost maybe they should put the extra hp in a trait and that would balance things out better but there are other builds where if you had hp you would be way to op, your best bet for now is going a condi build there is a really nice core and firebrand one you can run and trust me its a hek of allot of fun.