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Li / Killproof for Strikes are a Problem


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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Moradorin.6217" said:Sure, but my point is that I dont think treating strikes like raids and CMs makes sense and I dont think its a good trend. If anything the rewards should be tweaked so that we all get extra rewards when we DONT exclude people from the squad that are less experienced.Out of curiosity, since you started in this thread with a nice big heap of ugly...Have you every raided in this game?How many strikes have you personally tagged up for and lead?Im not sure the best way to do that. Maybe give rank levels like fractals and give people a bonus reward at the end if they group with x number of lower tier people. This would make it more rewarding for experienced people willing to take the time which seems likely to help people who are learning.So now it's not "carry me or delete the content", it's "carry me and give me extra loot for being carried"Shocking.Speaking as someone who has actually run hundreds of "All Welcome" strike squads, do You know what would make running open squads a more rewarding experience?-10/10 people reading squad chat.-Low performers not rage-quitting after the first unsuccessful pull and actually being willing to learn.-A return to the days when it was considered common courtesy to say "I have not done this before, anything I should know?" the moment they join a team-Players taking a moment to invest themselves in getting a proper set of exotic gear.-An end to threads like these that claim no one is doing what I do and that the patience I am displaying daily actually has value.

If Anet wants to get involved in helping me help others 2 more blues and a green is not going to do it...They can give me a working Gear Check.

Not exactly sure how this is a response to anything I said, however, I will way in on what you suggest. Yep I would agree I big issue is that many times people try 1-2 times w a squad then drop, another issue is people just not knowing and other people not wanting to wait for new people to get some explanation, etc, etc. That said, what I was trying to get across is most strikes are pretty darn easy, boneskinner really being the only acception. Even whisper is pretty easy as long as people dont spaz all over the place then they are chained, etc. In general, from my experience strikes can be completed without any issue other than boneskinner with 1-3 people who know the strike and have enough DPS to get to the finish line. As I said before, strikes arent that hard, some are actually faceroll easy.

Not that it actually matters, but I raid a few times a month and I run strikes when I or a friend wants to run them. I dont like doing pve much unless its new content or I have somthing I want from it. I used to be more into pve in years past but it has become pretty boring to me allot of the time.

Again, I fail to see what you are offering as a solution to the OPs topic. Personally, I think its pretty funny people are asking for kill proof for strikes.

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@Ecoxiss.1079 said:I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.Yes, exactly. And this is also why raid/fractal sales should be forbidden.

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content.

Many players are not able to complete content because nobody's even willing to let them try. Like the job where you need 30 years experience to qualify for tutorial. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Post-HoT, fractals, raids and WvW have simply become gathering points for the very worst parts of the community.

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@Tails.9372 said:

@"Moradorin.6217" said:give rank levels like fractals and give people a bonus reward at the end if they group with x number of lower tier people. This would make it more rewarding for experienced people willing to take the time which seems likely to help people who are learning. Win Win. Heck then I bet people wouldn't care anyway about some groups asking for KP.As long as the higher difficulties are more rewarding people are going to flock towards them, creating the same issues we have rn for other content except for those who only care about progressing towards a specific goal given that it can be accomplished by playing the lower difficulties. If you really want to address the issue more effectively you need to have multiple difficulties aimed towards the more general player subgroups which all give out the same rewards making the difficulty more of a choice of gameplay preference than anything else. This way players who don't want to play easier content because they find it boring would have less to worry about some "leeches" dragging down their party while the more casual players wouldn't be "gated" out of the content by these so called "elitists".

Well I dont disagree with what you suggest I just dont understand how that isnt giving strikes and players a strike level or rank of some sort and conditioning rewards to encourage experienced people to either play w less experienced people or do the specifically higher tier of the content, kind of ala fractals. Seems like it would allow what you suggest, which is not locking out new players while also still making it worth it for experienced players.

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@Hyrai.8720 said:how did players learn how to raid when raids were first introduced to gw2? there wasnt anyone to teach them.yea, you probably figured it out yourself: trial and error.when i first started raiding with my guild, we would spent HOURS on escort before we managed to get the kill. we didnt give up. we analyzed our gameplay, builds, squad compositions. and with more time and practice, we improved, moving forward to other bosses.it went on like this for MONTHS, and by now we are able to clear every boss within a reasonable time.

and there comes you, completely unprepaired, expecting me to sacrifice even more of my time to teach you, just so you dont have to spend months on practice.it saddens me that people actually have the audacity to make such demands. and that is with hundreds, maybe thousands of players, groups and guilds voluntarily offering training runs already!

You can't really compare the early days to what we have now because its just a different community mindset. In the early days of any game, there is incredible tolerance for failure among the community because the optimal strategy hasn't been found yet. Over time, the best or most used strategy becomes public knowledge and defines a metagame. It is no longer a problem that needs to be solved collaboratively. The problem has been solved by other people years ago, you just need to copy the strategy and execute it efficiently.

This idea is not new to GW2 or even unique to it. Getting into Underworld in GW1 at release was an entirely different thing to getting into Underworld at the height of Terraway, which was essentially an 8 man solo/duo farm. It was much, much harder to start during Terraway meta. It requires a lot of experience with solo/duo farming strats that you will not have and the strategy itself has its own learning curve, because its complex. It didn't pop into existence in a day - it is the evolution and amalgamation of many Underworld farming strats over many years.

Guild Wars 1 and 2 are really the only multiplayer games I have revisited over a long period of time. Most of the time, I like to start over in open beta and collaboratively solve game logic problems with other people, like how you did when you got into raiding in the early days. Literally everyone you ran into had the same mindset but later on, differences emerge in the knowledge, ability and goals of each player and you get this kind of friction. Raid training is sort of necessary to stop the game mode dying entirely in the medium to long term.

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youre damn right, you cant compare the early days to now. nowadays its A LOT easier to get into raids.you said it yourself: there are players with several years of experience who figured out meta-builds and -strategies which they share with the community. "you just need to copy the strategy and execute it efficiently".they even created 3rd party tools to make it easier to monitor and analyze your performance.

yes, the overall community has a lower tolerance for failure, and i think thats perfectly normal for content which has been out for 4 years.thats why you should join one of the plenty training groups until you are confident enough to jump into public raids without pushing their tolerance.

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If i make a group for 2000LI I want a smooth run. Why would you like to weasel your way in and get carried? People that have the KP know how to kill the boss (50% of the time) which is still better than wiping with an unexperienced group for hours. We all started at 0. If you want no requirement group, make your own party but i wanna know how long, before you add KP in your LFG

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@kmfart.7480 said:The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are
way too harsh
, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

Are we talking about 'Normal' and 'Hard' difficult modes?

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@kanemi.4903 said:

@kmfart.7480 said:The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are
way too harsh
, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

Are we talking about 'Normal' and 'Hard' difficult modes?

easy, easier and dont forget zero challenge kinda like bound by blood story aswell mate.

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If someone feels confident in their skills/build and won't be a burden on the group, he can simply fake KP and join any group he likes.

As for a hard/easy difficulty implementation, we already have this same issue with raids and what I learned from raid threads is the fact that many elitist players will gank up the forums to defend the toxicity that deprived the majoriy from exploring this content let alone learn how to play it.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@kmfart.7480 said:The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are
way too harsh
, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

Are we talking about 'Normal' and 'Hard' difficult modes?

easy, easier and dont forget zero challenge kinda like bound by blood story aswell mate.

I'm sure some found the Bound by Blood story too challenging, same with Shiverpeaks Pass, I've read around the forums that some groups even managed to fail THAT.

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@Cerioth.7062 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.They already did add multiple difficulty options by making Strikes of different difficulty levels.There is
one
difficulty option per Strike Mission.Why not have two or three per Strike Mission?

This could please the people who want Shiverpeaks Pass to be harder, the people who want Boneskinner to be easier and the people with wishes in between.

My guildies (who do not clear raids or run t4 fractals) actually started with the easy strikes - Shiverpeaks, Fraenir, bears. Once they started feeling comfortable with those, they began doing Whisper and Boneskinner. Did not take them too long to learn, and even though the dps is not raid level, our guild groups can now comfortably do the hardest strike missions and understand the mechanics. It's not rocket science. Theyve also got a big confidence boost from being able to survive Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag, and it has gotten some of them into raiding and coming up with more helpful build variety and improving themselves as players.

It's good news that they are apperently fulfilling their purpose for some people. :)

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@TwinFrozr.6214 said:

@Ecoxiss.1079 said:I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.Yes, exactly. And this is also why raid/fractal sales should be forbidden.

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content.

Many players are not able to complete content because nobody's even willing to let them try. Like the job where you need 30 years experience to qualify for tutorial. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Post-HoT, fractals, raids and WvW have simply become gathering points for the very worst parts of the community.

Their are training raids however. Or do you really think their would suddenly be no requirements if sell groups where abolished?

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:give rank levels like fractals and give people a bonus reward at the end if they group with x number of lower tier people. This would make it more rewarding for experienced people willing to take the time which seems likely to help people who are learning. Win Win. Heck then I bet people wouldn't care anyway about some groups asking for KP.As long as the higher difficulties are more rewarding people are going to flock towards them, creating the same issues we have rn for other content except for those who only care about progressing towards a specific goal given that it can be accomplished by playing the lower difficulties. If you really want to address the issue more effectively you need to have multiple difficulties aimed towards the more general player subgroups which all give out the same rewards making the difficulty more of a choice of gameplay preference than anything else. This way players who don't want to play easier content because they find it boring would have less to worry about some "leeches" dragging down their party while the more casual players wouldn't be "gated" out of the content by these so called "elitists".

Well I dont disagree with what you suggest I just dont understand how that isnt giving strikes and players a strike level or rank of some sort and conditioning rewards to encourage experienced people to either play w less experienced people or do the specifically higher tier of the content, kind of ala fractals. Seems like it would allow what you suggest, which is not locking out new players while also still making it worth it for experienced players.

The problem is not that easy to be solved by using rewards. Would've been solved, even for other scenarios and games if it is. Be it Raids, WvW etc. Even Fractals, a content with tiered difficulties and rewards, same issue exist. Strike is just another content facing the same issue. Can only conclude the problem is not Strike.

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so many other groups don't ask for li.. many people with li are playing with group that don't ask for li.just ignore the group that ask for li.I join group that don't ask for li.. many teams successfully get all strike done with or without li.I join which ever group that appear in the LFG system.

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Why do I get the feeling even if they implemented easy/hard mode Strikes people would still just ask for LI requirements because farming Easy Strikes in an efficient and timely manner still has that DPS requirement? Making it effectively impossible for Boneskinner to wipe the group to get you the loot would still bring out folks not wanting to run with players who do 2-3k DPS on average.

The categorical issue that plagues GW2 to this day is a simple lack of in-game explanation of basic mechanics, there's no wild 'achievement' doing some activity that involves having DPS gear and a good rotation. It really should have been established during the leveling process, or hell, maybe throwing out this old archaic idea, WoW used to do 'Attunements' or tasks you had to perform in order to even do certain raids in that game. That could have been a tutorial or refresher for players to become educated on what they would need to do, ask questions, see if they can get the task done, etc.

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@"Sykper.6583" said:WoW used to do 'Attunements' or tasks you had to perform in order to even do certain raids in that game.Actually WoW's attempt to address the issue at hand here (the disparity between performance in "dedicated" players and those less so) is the Corruption system.This is not an issue specific to Guild Wars 2 as many of the replies spouting false rhetoric in this thread claim.

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I don't agree LI requirement either, but like it or not, people are allowed to make whatever group they want, it is their freedom.

Core issues is that people who thought otherwise aren't posting in the LFG, they prefer to follow a train rather than the effort of making one.

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@Rodrick.1942 said:Is it so hard for all of you to have a faith on people you don't know ? Or is it too hard for commander to fix and tell newbie what to do in the strike ? (Other than just kick )

Ask LI / LD in the strike mission is the stupidest things I've ever seen , either you guys are too bored, or you don't trust anyone at all. In NA it's not often, I suppose it's the issue comes from EU.

I think that all of us had faith when we started. We just lost it as time went on.

A year ago, I joined a raid squad of a guild that just started raiding. They were taking anyone. Very open minded. I joined the guild after.1 or 2 months later they were asking for Li. Low ammount but some. Their point was to learn the content and with pugs that was imposible without some requirements.Now they always ask for KP and kick if someone is killing the group. They are still learning some harder bosses and relised that they cannot learn with anyone.

With strikes, it is way worse. Because in strikes, 9 out of 10 players are basicaly doing nothing. For me, li in strikes is almost as important as in raids. Strikes are easier but also there is much higher percentage of terible players.

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If you think that LI or KP is an issue, chances are that you are not capable of doing content that gives you said things.

This means that you would be an anchor to a group. Asking for an LI or KP is the only way we have as of now to measure some sort of skill or understanding of the basics of the game. The huge difference between "all welcome" -groups and "250 LI" -groups (who usually have at least a half-decent comp as well) is so huge, that there is nothing that will ever make me surrender to the monkeys of LFG system that believe they should be allowed to be carried in every single piece of content they attempt to do.

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So how exactly would you ban KP? Ban it in LFG? Then people are going to just advertise in chat to tell them to PM it. Ban that too? Then people are just going to approach squads with KP privately. Or use third party sites. People are just going to learn the secret handshake when they join a squad by incidentally linking it. Are you going to ban people for linking raid related things at all? Remove it completely? Then people will just ask for other things like titles. Enforcement would be time consuming for little gain.

Does anyone actually think that people are going to welcome others with open arms because of that? lol no.

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@yann.1946 said:

@Ecoxiss.1079 said:I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.Yes, exactly. And this is also why raid/fractal sales should be forbidden.

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content.

Many players are not able to complete content because nobody's even willing to let them try. Like the job where you need 30 years experience to qualify for tutorial. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Post-HoT, fractals, raids and WvW have simply become gathering points for the very worst parts of the community.

Their are training raids however.I'm well aware. In fact, that's my only raid experience after 8,000 hours of total gameplay. And even in "training", people whine about damage, healing, equipment, skills, LI and god knows. Have friends myself who don't even try raids because of its truly awful atmosphere.

Or do you really think their would suddenly be no requirements if sell groups where abolished?Do you really think raiders will help, if they're rewarded by avoiding to?

Everything isn't just black and white, but it's a good compromise.

Edit: Shared achievements could also be a solution. Whenever you help someone who happen not to have certain raid achievements, the commander/members of the squad also get points for helping. As the toxic community have mainstreamized to "hate" achieving, they won't care (or, they will care and start behaving), and the helpful/nice part will get rewarded for good deeds. In such a situation, it should totally be against ToS to sell runs as a side effect.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Rodrick.1942 said:Is it so hard for all of you to have a faith on people you don't know ? Or is it too hard for commander to fix and tell newbie what to do in the strike ? (Other than just kick )

Ask LI / LD in the strike mission is the stupidest things I've ever seen , either you guys are too bored, or you don't trust anyone at all. In NA it's not often, I suppose it's the issue comes from EU.

I think that all of us had faith when we started. We just lost it as time went on.

A year ago, I joined a raid squad of a guild that just started raiding. They were taking anyone. Very open minded. I joined the guild after.1 or 2 months later they were asking for Li. Low ammount but some. Their point was to learn the content and with pugs that was imposible without some requirements.Now they always ask for KP and kick if someone is killing the group. They are still learning some harder bosses and relised that they cannot learn with anyone.

With strikes, it is way worse. Because in strikes, 9 out of 10 players are basicaly doing nothing. For me, li in strikes is almost as important as in raids. Strikes are easier but also there is much higher percentage of terible players.

Which brings us back to the root cause of why we have KP requirements in the first place. It's not because we want to actively exclude people as the primary motivator. It's just the average player is just so clueless and awful that we have no choice but to implement requirements. Fix the giant skill gap between raiders and casuals and I'll stop imposing LI requirements. All of the folks complaining in this thread would just as easily exclude level 70 characters from their strike groups without missing a beat and the gap between level 70 and open worlders is smaller than the gap between raiders and casuals.

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@TwinFrozr.6214 said:

@Ecoxiss.1079 said:I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.Yes, exactly. And this is also why raid/fractal sales should be forbidden.

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content.

Many players are not able to complete content because nobody's even willing to let them try. Like the job where you need 30 years experience to qualify for tutorial. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Post-HoT, fractals, raids and WvW have simply become gathering points for the very worst parts of the community.

Their are training raids however.I'm well aware. In fact, that's my only raid experience after 8,000 hours of total gameplay. And even in "training", people whine about damage, healing, equipment, skills, LI and god knows. Have friends myself who don't even try raids because of its truly awful atmosphere.

That really just depends on the guild and group though. And doesn't it make sense that during a training you would tell the people who underperformed that they do?

Where were the complains about li in trainings, I ve never heard about that before.

Or do you really think their would suddenly be no requirements if sell groups where abolished?Do you really think raiders will help, if they're rewarded by avoiding to?

Everything isn't just black and white, but it's a good compromise.

Edit: Shared achievements could also be a solution. Whenever you help someone who happen not to have certain raid achievements, the commander/members of the squad also get points for helping. As the toxic community have mainstreamized to "hate" achieving, they won't care (or, they will care and start behaving), and the helpful/nice part will get rewarded for good deeds. In such a situation, it should totally be against ToS to sell runs as a side effect.

The things is, their are not enough raidsellers to make this a mayor contributor to the amount of raid training. (ignoring that quite a few sellers actually teach).

The bigger problem that would happen is discontent because now people will actually have to learn things they don't want to.

Edit: how do your friends know about the atmosphere if theyve never tried it?

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most people are missing the biggest point...do you really think that if putting in requirements was "forbidden by anet" that you would get into the groups putting them up?

...there are outside sources which can be used to get into raids / strikes. many people already organize themselfes over those outside tools because they do not want to be bothered or handle any of those ego people which only have the ME ME ME in mind. like nobody cares that you can't get into groups. we are not your friends or family who absolutly have to take you in and tolerate any of your shit behavior (opening such a thread and demand something purely for your ego would already make you fly out of my group for example....simply stop being an ass and work on yourself).

if you want to get in however, there are a lot of sources to start out yourself. get a good teambuild from snowcrows, discretize or whatnot...not that woodpotatoes openworld trash which is not optimised and doesn't work with a TEAM in mind. then dedicate some time in the special forces training area (just gw2 wiki it and search for hints on snowcrows). download arcdps so you see how you play, be it in raids strikes or openworld. just always try you best with what you learned so far for the tools. thats like the bare minimum YOU can do YOURSELF without any help from others as preparation. thats what everyone else did already which was not there from the start to figure shit out so you get guides and can do it in 1 week instead of 2 months.then you can reach out to the communitys and ask them if they can take you in. you are the applicant, its not the others which absolutly have to listen to any of your demands.

as other already said, the world is not black and white. i sold raids. i trained multiple guilds. i had my own team as leader. i was part of other peoples team. i ougged a lot with and without LI teams. often even in training raids. sometimes i put in requirements. sometimes i say everyone welcome.

but honestly: thats none of your fucking business what i do and how i sort out people i do not want to play with. if you are an ass you will land without any further comments on my blocklist. if you join without requirements and you can't even ask, be it in whisper or squadchat if its okay, you will absolutly get that boot. if your contribution to the group on a dps slot is near the supporters, then fucking expect to get the boot if you join in experienced people.

but its just a game and not a job: then don't fucking try to join people which get their fun out of a game when playing it a bit more serious. you are not getting into championsleague just because you joined your local football club either, even if you demand it 1000 times and demand its elitist that they are not dragging your ass over the lawn so you can score a goal.

if you do not have the time to do something, don't expect me to have the time to be patient nor free carry you.

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@yann.1946 said:

@Ecoxiss.1079 said:I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.Yes, exactly. And this is also why raid/fractal sales should be forbidden.

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content.

Many players are not able to complete content because nobody's even willing to let them try. Like the job where you need 30 years experience to qualify for tutorial. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Post-HoT, fractals, raids and WvW have simply become gathering points for the very worst parts of the community.

Their are training raids however.I'm well aware. In fact, that's my only raid experience after 8,000 hours of total gameplay. And even in "training", people whine about damage, healing, equipment, skills, LI and god knows. Have friends myself who don't even try raids because of its truly awful atmosphere.

That really just depends on the guild and group though. And doesn't it make sense that during a training you would tell the people who underperformed that they do?

Where were the complains about li in trainings, I ve never heard about that before.

If they underperform to a level where content is not completable, absolutely. Sure, my raid experience is limited, but my fractal level is around 90, and I have already done quite some pug strikes. Never had a problem or anyone complaining. I get the impression that this is more about kittenheadry than actual performance issues - it's a game, for heaven's sake.

Li problem happened when we had to pug others to fill up the training group. They also stalked my ≈8,000 dps and whined about it.

Or do you really think their would suddenly be no requirements if sell groups where abolished?Do you really think raiders will help, if they're rewarded by avoiding to?

Everything isn't just black and white, but it's a good compromise.

Edit: Shared achievements could also be a solution. Whenever you help someone who happen not to have certain raid achievements, the commander/members of the squad also get points for helping. As the toxic community have mainstreamized to "hate" achieving, they won't care (or, they will care and start behaving), and the helpful/nice part will get rewarded for good deeds. In such a situation, it should totally be against ToS to sell runs as a side effect.

The things is, their are not enough raidsellers to make this a mayor contributor to the amount of raid training. (ignoring that quite a few sellers actually teach).

The bigger problem that would happen is discontent because now people will actually have to learn things they don't want to.

Edit: how do your friends know about the atmosphere if theyve never tried it?You may be right on that one, I haven't looked for the amount of sellers in a while. Doesn't change the point, though: there are still raiders preferring to exploit others' weaknesses for a profit.

Isn't this what's happening already, in an extreme manner? One has to get full ascended armor, weapons and trinkets, potentially for hundreds of golds, to make a meta they don't even want to play. Whenever meta changes, hundreds of golds may to be spent again to change it. This to even get into training, as ascended is a requirement nowadays. And a lot of whatever-role-you-have-training, to satisfy some kittenhead who think they have the right to judge who is welcome to play their own game.

The friends who don't join raids are well aware of the community climate in WvW, PvP and other competitive stuff. Just looking at LFG titles is enough after that.

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