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Why Thief roaming players. Give people a bad impression. Is it caused by infinite stealth stacking?


Flee.5602

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thieves like to roam around in groups of 2-3, typically 2 until you kill 1 then it'll be 3but mostly packs of 2-3 tag teaming 1 person, especially kite flying asuransa lone thief, like an ele, usually sits near doors so after you kill the guards, and he portal hops 20 times, when you down them they'll use down state to travel through door.entire guilds are built around cowardice play styles like thesesince 2/25 balance, and beyond, I've seen these guilds now running warrior, so they can 3v1 to banner their allies/downsat least I could use dragons maw against thieves pre 2/25now it's bunker meta, and while 3v1 you have to down a single warrior 3x then avoid the skill 3 rally for 15 seconds until he dies if you can troll the other 2 enough from rezzing him as you don't have enough damage as zerk to out cleave the heal, and no way your stomping under 2 warriors cleave.least the perma stealth 1 shot deadeyes able to restealth before you can finish dodge animation so you can't counter attack to reveal them until you miss a dodge, they screw up or one shot you from point blank while stacked inside you have subsided.it's not thieves, it's oversights by anet devs, eg. can't enter a door while downed under water, but can on land.

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@Jski.6180 said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

core mesmer and chrono cannot, unless playing a stealth oriented build. You do not have a lot of mobility as a mesmer if you're not playing mirage

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I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

All thf has as what as the ability to stack stealth or the ability to blink away or the ability to spam evasion? Thf has a lot of "that all it has." They realy dont at the same level any more after nerfs your classes your saying cant get away as well as they use to and that for the best. Sure there are run away builds still out there but every build on thf has the abitly to run away where your other classes MUST build to only run away. That what effects like stealth and blinks do to a class.

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@Strider.7849 said:I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

and this is why thief either needs to get nerfed into the ground or stealth being removed from the game.

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@Jski.6180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

All thf has as what as the ability to stack stealth or the ability to blink away or the ability to spam evasion? Thf has a lot of "that all it has."
They realy dont at the same level any more after nerfs your classes your saying cant get away as well as they use to and that for the best. Sure there are run away builds still out there but every build on thf has the abitly to run away where your other classes MUST build to only run away. That what effects like stealth and blinks do to a class.

If the thief is doing all of that they're probably not hurting you or they'll hurt you real quick and gas out. Take pulls and other control and scan your peripheral for stealth signs to have an idea of stealth duration, direction, and orientation. Normally when I catch a thief who jumped me I didn't chase them down, I've built to sustain a bit and unload a bunch of stuff rapidly and lock them down close up or pull them in. Some are going to get away and since I didn't freak out dodging and spending all of my stuff on flak when they jumped me I can either now spend my own Initiative and utility like Shadowstep or let them keep themselves busy thinking they're clever and evasive while they don't do anything to my team. Some are just better players and I have to be real about that.

If they're a problem for you, take it easy and let them show you how to kill them.

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@kash.9213 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

All thf has as what as the ability to stack stealth or the ability to blink away or the ability to spam evasion? Thf has a lot of "that all it has."
They realy dont at the same level any more after nerfs your classes your saying cant get away as well as they use to and that for the best. Sure there are run away builds still out there but every build on thf has the abitly to run away where your other classes MUST build to only run away. That what effects like stealth and blinks do to a class.

If the thief is doing all of that they're probably not hurting you or they'll hurt you real quick and gas out. Take pulls and other control and scan your peripheral for stealth signs to have an idea of stealth duration, direction, and orientation. Normally when I catch a thief who jumped me I didn't chase them down, I've built to sustain a bit and unload a bunch of stuff rapidly and lock them down close up or pull them in. Some are going to get away and since I didn't freak out dodging and spending all of my stuff on flak when they jumped me I can either now spend my own Initiative and utility like Shadowstep or let them keep themselves busy thinking they're clever and evasive while they don't do anything to my team. Some are just better players and I have to be real about that.

If they're a problem for you, take it easy and let them show you how to kill them.

That is true they are not doing dmg most of the time during that but they get too much free outs when it comes to that during condi dmg OR after / before the big hits. There are no classes that are doing things during the same effects as well. If they are running away they are not likely doing dmg.

Stealth is a way to get gas back for the thf class. Time is every thing in this game and the more you can delay the more effects you can out put and the ability to control that delay is much stronger then not.

There are a few shadowsteps that for what ever reasion are not effected by lines like other blink effects.To kill a thf is very very class dependent only a few set classes and builds can truly kill a thf (out side of bad thfs) having both mobility and stealth is a real problem for balancing.

As well as stun brakes spame. Its ok for the thf class to have these things but they need to be forced to build for them giving up every thing to have them like other classes. If your still doing a 9k back stab or doing 2k condi ticks and still have these effects there is something broken about the build / class.

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@Jski.6180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

All thf has as what as the ability to stack stealth or the ability to blink away or the ability to spam evasion? Thf has a lot of "that all it has."
They realy dont at the same level any more after nerfs your classes your saying cant get away as well as they use to and that for the best. Sure there are run away builds still out there but every build on thf has the abitly to run away where your other classes MUST build to only run away. That what effects like stealth and blinks do to a class.

If the thief is doing all of that they're probably not hurting you or they'll hurt you real quick and gas out. Take pulls and other control and scan your peripheral for stealth signs to have an idea of stealth duration, direction, and orientation. Normally when I catch a thief who jumped me I didn't chase them down, I've built to sustain a bit and unload a bunch of stuff rapidly and lock them down close up or pull them in. Some are going to get away and since I didn't freak out dodging and spending all of my stuff on flak when they jumped me I can either now spend my own Initiative and utility like Shadowstep or let them keep themselves busy thinking they're clever and evasive while they don't do anything to my team. Some are just better players and I have to be real about that.

If they're a problem for you, take it easy and let them show you how to kill them.

That is true they are not doing dmg most of the time during that but they get too much free outs when it comes to that during condi dmg OR after / before the big hits. There are no classes that are doing things during the same effects as well. If they are running away they are not likely doing dmg.

Stealth is a way to get gas back for the thf class. Time is every thing in this game and the more you can delay the more effects you can out put and the ability to control that delay is much stronger then not.

There are a few shadowsteps that for what ever reasion are not effected by lines like other blink effects.To kill a thf is very very class dependent only a few set classes and builds can truly kill a thf (out side of bad thfs) having both mobility and stealth is a real problem for balancing.

As well as stun brakes spame. Its ok for the thf class to have these things but they need to be forced to build for them giving up every thing to have them like other classes. If your still doing a 9k back stab or doing 2k condi ticks and still have these effects there is something broken about the build / class.

Thieves can spam stunbreaks? Other than shadow step on a decent cd and blinding powder if the take that utility what stunbreak they spamming?

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

All thf has as what as the ability to stack stealth or the ability to blink away or the ability to spam evasion? Thf has a lot of "that all it has."
They realy dont at the same level any more after nerfs your classes your saying cant get away as well as they use to and that for the best. Sure there are run away builds still out there but every build on thf has the abitly to run away where your other classes MUST build to only run away. That what effects like stealth and blinks do to a class.

If the thief is doing all of that they're probably not hurting you or they'll hurt you real quick and gas out. Take pulls and other control and scan your peripheral for stealth signs to have an idea of stealth duration, direction, and orientation. Normally when I catch a thief who jumped me I didn't chase them down, I've built to sustain a bit and unload a bunch of stuff rapidly and lock them down close up or pull them in. Some are going to get away and since I didn't freak out dodging and spending all of my stuff on flak when they jumped me I can either now spend my own Initiative and utility like Shadowstep or let them keep themselves busy thinking they're clever and evasive while they don't do anything to my team. Some are just better players and I have to be real about that.

If they're a problem for you, take it easy and let them show you how to kill them.

That is true they are not doing dmg most of the time during that but they get too much free outs when it comes to that during condi dmg OR after / before the big hits. There are no classes that are doing things during the same effects as well. If they are running away they are not likely doing dmg.

Stealth is a way to get gas back for the thf class. Time is every thing in this game and the more you can delay the more effects you can out put and the ability to control that delay is much stronger then not.

There are a few shadowsteps that for what ever reasion are not effected by lines like other blink effects.To kill a thf is very very class dependent only a few set classes and builds can truly kill a thf (out side of bad thfs) having both mobility and stealth is a real problem for balancing.

As well as stun brakes spame. Its ok for the thf class to have these things but they need to be forced to build for them giving up every thing to have them like other classes. If your still doing a 9k back stab or doing 2k condi ticks and still have these effects there is something broken about the build / class.

Thieves can spam stunbreaks? Other than shadow step on a decent cd and blinding powder if the take that utility what stunbreak they spamming?

Just the number of skills that thf can use during stun like a blink and the number of skills that have stunbreak on them with other effects. (I realty though there was another effect that let them spam stunbrake but i guess i was missing seeing effects the stunbrake on stun AND get max evasion back may seem like a spam of stunbreaks but that what this is about what makes thf seems like it needs nerfing.)

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@Jski.6180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The ability to run away from any thing with out with out stealth. Ele d/d back when the game first came out had the same impression and it was nerfed to the ground but for some reason thfs get a pass.

That's all thief has, ele had self sustain and could actually face tank a bit. And guess what, engie/ranger/guard/mesmer/warrior and ele can still be able to get away or run far enough to force the theif to give up. Remember theif relays on Initiative and that's used a lot to chase people down, ware this away and there is very little they can do and most will not burn shadow step (a stun break) to chase down unless the target is pretty much dead already

All thf has as what as the ability to stack stealth or the ability to blink away or the ability to spam evasion? Thf has a lot of "that all it has."
They realy dont at the same level any more after nerfs your classes your saying cant get away as well as they use to and that for the best. Sure there are run away builds still out there but every build on thf has the abitly to run away where your other classes MUST build to only run away. That what effects like stealth and blinks do to a class.

If the thief is doing all of that they're probably not hurting you or they'll hurt you real quick and gas out. Take pulls and other control and scan your peripheral for stealth signs to have an idea of stealth duration, direction, and orientation. Normally when I catch a thief who jumped me I didn't chase them down, I've built to sustain a bit and unload a bunch of stuff rapidly and lock them down close up or pull them in. Some are going to get away and since I didn't freak out dodging and spending all of my stuff on flak when they jumped me I can either now spend my own Initiative and utility like Shadowstep or let them keep themselves busy thinking they're clever and evasive while they don't do anything to my team. Some are just better players and I have to be real about that.

If they're a problem for you, take it easy and let them show you how to kill them.

That is true they are not doing dmg most of the time during that but they get too much free outs when it comes to that during condi dmg OR after / before the big hits. There are no classes that are doing things during the same effects as well. If they are running away they are not likely doing dmg.

Stealth is a way to get gas back for the thf class. Time is every thing in this game and the more you can delay the more effects you can out put and the ability to control that delay is much stronger then not.

There are a few shadowsteps that for what ever reasion are not effected by lines like other blink effects.
To kill a thf is very very class dependent only a few set classes and builds can truly kill a thf
(out side of bad thfs) having both mobility and stealth is a real problem for balancing.

As well as stun brakes spame. Its ok for the thf class to have these things
but they need to be forced to build for them
giving up every thing to have them like other classes. If your still doing a 9k back stab or doing 2k condi ticks and still have these effects there is something broken about the build / class.

Definitely not class dependent, it's mostly staying calm and adjusting your build over time, which changes over time due to server transfers and everything else.That thief jumping you might have all of those things but they still have to make build decisions and some of those things just aren't going to be a factor or might even be counter productive if they're overextending past their builds capabilities which will happen. I think you're overselling to yourself the requirements to counter some classes and what people are packing out there, most of the time you can just let people mess up until they die or they've done the same to you.

Adding: stun breaks take slots, that's a build choice you can make them trip on.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Strider.7849" said:I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

and this is why thief either needs to get nerfed into the ground or stealth being removed from the game.

Thankfully, you are not a developer cause many people paid good money for access to classes with stealth. For 5 years on this board all I have ever seen you post about is how you hate stealth. But your kind of complaints has already essentially killed Mesmer outside of PvE so you gonna help me get my refunds?

That said:

I have long said that stealth needs adjustments to be used for scouting and starting an attack only. Once that thief or Mesmer is in the fight, they should either have to finish it or get far enough away to re-engage stealth that an easy follow up attack is not viable. I can think of only 2 skills where exceptions should be made, Hunter's Shot and The Prestige and only because the entire point of those 2 skills are combat repositioning, are slow, require hits and have drawbacks, as well as a high cooldown (for weapon skills).

And it looking like 'predator cloak' to enemies when you are too close (200-250 units, maybe 300) would also help. Yeah, it would break targeting, but not invalidate all cleave and AoE skill use.

Stealth should be SNEAKY, not a mid-melee attack skill.

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@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Strider.7849" said:I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

and this is why thief either needs to get nerfed into the ground or stealth being removed from the game.

Thankfully, you are not a developer cause many people paid good money for access to classes with stealth. For 5 years on this board all I have ever seen you post about is how you hate stealth. But your kind of complaints has already essentially killed Mesmer outside of PvE so you gonna help me get my refunds?

That said:

I have long said that
to be used for
scouting
and
starting an attack
only
. Once that thief or Mesmer is in the fight, they should either have to finish it or get far enough away to re-engage stealth that an easy follow up attack is not viable. I can think of only 2 skills where exceptions should be made,
and
and only because the entire point of those 2 skills are combat repositioning, are slow, require hits and have drawbacks, as well as a high cooldown (for weapon skills).

And it looking like 'predator cloak' to enemies when you are too close (200-250 units,
maybe
300) would also help. Yeah, it would break targeting, but not invalidate all cleave and AoE skill use.

Stealth should be SNEAKY, not a mid-melee attack skill.

I can almost be cool with that except that would get adjusted to be a powerhouse of a Stealth Attack. I have quite a few secondary mods going off on basic actions pretty quickly and I think that would lead to a one-shot meta. I treat players and everything really as though they had breakbars even when they don't, it just seems to be an easy to follow guildline for the lazy like me to burn stuff faster, so I use Stealth Attacks like Tactical Strike quite a few times in one fight even though I'm barely in stealth in most fights. Mechanics would have to change because thief ability to stay in a fight is already fragile enough and the use of gimmicks or showy mechanics is what leads to a lot of nerf threads but those things are necessary.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:U ever seen a thief vs good power rev? It's funny when their not DE's and u reveal em with glints reveal lol they be like oh $hit and either leave or usually get destroyed.

Well, yeah. You're disrupting both a major damage source and their primary defensive mechanic. So it makes sense that they'd run or melt.

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@ASP.8093 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:U ever seen a thief vs good power rev? It's funny when their not DE's and u reveal em with glints reveal lol they be like oh $hit and either leave or usually get destroyed.

Well, yeah. You're disrupting both a major damage source and their primary defensive mechanic. So it makes sense that they'd run or melt.

Even as a DE watch them try hard to Meld it (a bit of a warm up)....assuming they arent running basi or thieves guild

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@Strider.7849 said:I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

Dang, this is probably the most likes I've ever had on a comment. I take it a lot of people get trolled by this too.

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I don't mind Thieves who can actually kill you, and use Stealth skills as a combat mechanic to win the fight. However, that's not the majority, most of them just seem to use it to troll on builds that only tickle so they can slowly cut you down by following you all around the map with no way to get away from them except to go into a Tower/Keep, while always slowed from being in combat, plus no mount.

If you try to Reveal and CC them, they just Stunbreak, dodge a few times, then stealth away to reset the fight.

They don't want to win, they could care less, they just want to harass you all over an entire map laughing. I think such griefing builds shouldn't be possible, as this is a combat game and should be combat-focused. But I've also played PvP games for nearly 15 years now and I'm well aware of how something like this ends up in every game, because despite the stereotype that everyone wants to win, there's alot of players who just don't care and want to make other people waste as much time and energy as possible instead.

I've even seen a few of them who intentionally let their victims get up from downed state so they can start it again, rather than finishing them off, with the player's only choice to just not revive themselves and use a Waypoint.

I learned to just surrender and let them have it.

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