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It’s been a year since the last raid wing has come out


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Instanced 10 man content with class roles isn‘t popular in GW2, not played by many and therefore developed less and less, who would have guessed that?Add to that, that some raiders didn‘t want easy modes to push raid popularity and make them more accesible, so that Anet has more reason to develop raids.

Strike Missions, which are nothing more than Raids with 1 boss, will also not solve the problem, since players will not get familiar with the mechanics of the old raids through them.

You reap what you sow, raiders against an easy mode.

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@Raknar.4735 said:Instanced 10 man content with class roles isn‘t popular in GW2, not played by many and therefore developed less and less, who would have guessed that?Add to that, that some raiders didn‘t want easy modes to push raid popularity and make them more accesible, so that Anet has more reason to develop raids.

Strike Missions, which are nothing more than Raids with 1 boss, will also not solve the problem, since players will not get familiar with the mechanics of the old raids through them.

You reap what you sow, raiders against an easy mode.

You do realise some people where against easy mode because it wouldn't have helped in their opinion right?

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@Aizza.4950 said:Strikes aren't raids. They're an absolute joke that bring no true challenge into the game. They don't teach people how to get into raids at all

Changing their name to Strike Missions doesn‘t make them not be raids. Else ESO would not have raids.Also those „absolute joke“ raids are there to bridge non-raiders into raids, so making them as „challenging“ as raids is unreasonable.Jokes also seem very fitting for this circus.

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@yann.1946 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:Instanced 10 man content with class roles isn‘t popular in GW2, not played by many and therefore developed less and less, who would have guessed that?Add to that, that some raiders didn‘t want easy modes to push raid popularity and make them more accesible, so that Anet has more reason to develop raids.

Strike Missions, which are nothing more than Raids with 1 boss, will also not solve the problem, since players will not get familiar with the mechanics of the old raids through them.

You reap what you sow, raiders against an easy mode.

You do realise some people where against easy mode because it wouldn't have helped in their opinion right?

Yeah, I do. Not doing anything also doesn‘t help raids.

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@Aizza.4950 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:Yeah, I do. Not doing anything also doesn‘t help raids.

You know what helps raids? Making raids.

You know what doesn‘t help the game? Making content only exclusively for a small audience.You know what kills MMORPGs? A low playerbase when the game only caters to a small amount of players.

It‘s obvious raids aren‘t doing well population wise to further create more raids, when Anet has to create bridging instanced content just to carry raids. I doubt it will work, not even legendary armour was enough of an incentive to get a vast amount of people to play that type of content. That should tell you enough about its‘ popularity.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:You know what kills MMORPGs? A low playerbase when the game
only
caters to a small amount of players.

No one ever wanted them to only cater to a small audiance. People just wanted a bit more than 3 Bosses every 9 months.

Not sure about the first part. I‘ve seen plenty of people being vehemently against any type of suggestion that opens up raids to more people, just to save their petty exclusivity. Like I‘ve said earlier, they can now reap what they‘ve sown.Second part is natural, many people want more content they enjoy, no matter the content. Having more people play the content makes it more likely that it will get more developement time.

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Raids are were/are not popular because there is no easy way to learn them. I just got into raids 3 months ago and only did so because it was a group of people I know that asked me and said that we had a few veterans tagging along to help teach mechanics. So basically it was a who you know type of deal. I was very much afraid of the fabled toxicity and it made me stay away from the content up to that point.

Yes people can go find trainers and such for example using snocrows discords for NA/EU but in my opinion you shouldn't have to. It makes about as much sense as the good old days when there was a LFG on a external web sites to find groups for dungeons. The raid training should be in game. Have a training area where you can select the raid boss and the phase and have it walk you or your group through it slowly and perhaps even stop time to show cues the boss is giving or on the map.

Will this happen, probably not. But I think it would entice more people to come learn and build confidence to play the game mode. If more people felt good about more encounters I think they would be a larger community. That's my theory. So I believe the next update for raids should be more about bringing more people to the game mode. Not the status quo. I would love to be able to practice for example Dhuum orb collecting easily without having to have my whole team there or play a specific class so I can test one time just to have to restart all over again.

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It's probably less than 1% of the player base that are raiding weekly.Those Developers are better spent on developing the Living World, which almost everyone plays, and Strike Missions, which seem to at least draw more players than raids.Before new Wings are introduced, the existing Wings should be made more accessible.

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@"Raknar.4735" said:Not sure about the first part. I‘ve seen plenty of people being vehemently against any type of suggestion that opens up raids to more people, just to save their petty exclusivity.

But you said "When the game only caters to a small amount of players". That doesnt have anything to do exclusivity. No one wanted them to stop developing stuff everyone can complete.

Like I‘ve said earlier, they can now reap what they‘ve sown.This is something that no one cans say for sure. Is the raid population low because theres no new people coming in or because raids took 9 months to release. Thats someone no one can answer for sure.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:Not sure about the first part. I‘ve seen plenty of people being vehemently against any type of suggestion that opens up raids to more people, just to save their petty exclusivity.

But you said "When the game only caters to a small amount of players". That doesnt have anything to do exclusivity. No one wanted them to stop developing stuff everyone can complete.

Content that caters to a small amount of players is pretty exclusive. And some do want to hold onto that exclusivity instead of opening up the content to more players, so that the developers have more reason to create that type of content.

Like I‘ve said earlier, they can now reap what they‘ve sown.This is something that no one cans say for sure. Is the raid population low because theres no new people coming in or because raids took 9 months to release. Thats someone no one can answer for sure.

Yeah, no one can answer it for sure, but I'm pretty sure only a small handfull of people playing the content is the reason for it not being developed any faster. After that it's just a downward spiral of less people playing -> less developement time spent -> even less people playing.

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@Aizza.4950 said:Today marks the 1 year anniversary since wing 7 came out. The longest drought we’ve had with really no end in sight. RIP raid community.

Well they hadn't done anything for sPVP from August 2019 to February 2020, 6 months, funny how the previous update regarding sPVP was in November 2018, 9 months, given that on August 2019 we got a single 2v2 map (and some new weapon skins), it's almost like 15 months so Raids have some time until they reach that point.

Between March 2019 and February 2020 WVW got nothing, 11 months or so. And in those two months we got the Warclaw and then a Warclaw skin and a new armor set.

The last Fractal was released on January 2019, that's 17 months without a fractal.

So it's not only Raids that are suffering, it's almost everything, but last few releases they started turning around.

@Raknar.4735 said:Add to that, that some raiders didn‘t want easy modes to push raid popularity and make them more accesible, so that Anet has more reason to develop raids.

Yes because Fractals that have multiple modes were so successful these last months, we've been flooded with so many new fractal releases thanks to their easy mode. Oh wait..

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:Add to that, that some raiders didn‘t want easy modes to push raid popularity and make them more accesible, so that Anet has more reason to develop raids.

Yes because Fractals that have multiple modes were so successful these last months, we've been flooded with so many new fractal releases thanks to their easy mode. Oh wait..

Except we know Fractals are still in active development, can't say the same about raids, aside from Strike Missions. Maybe without the tiered fractals, they would be just as dead as dungeons? Who knows. Instanced group content just doesn't seem to be popular here

@Fire Attunement.9835 said:On the topic of Fractals…

Reports of their death have been greatly exaggerated, though I apologize that our silence on the topic raised that concern.I am personally committed to Fractals and see them as an area that deserves more focus and attention going forward. I'm happy to announce that Cameron Rich, who worked on Fractals during Season Three, will be taking the reins on a new Fractal as he rolls off his current duties. This Fractal will feature a challenge mode. Beyond that, I'm working with the Systems Design team on more plans to keep Fractals fresh and exciting. I'm excited and when everything is ready to share, we'll have more details.

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@"Raknar.4735" said:Except we know Fractals are still in active development, can't say the same about raids, aside from Strike Missions. Maybe without the tiered fractals, they would be just as dead as dungeons? Who knows. Instanced group content just doesn't seem to be popular here

Yes they started working on fractals again some... months ago. That is still almost 14-15 months without ANY actual Fractal development. Yes they are in active development NOW, but they haven't been for many many months, more than we are without Raids - 12 months just this month. So the idea that "difficulty tiers" was somehow the problem behind Raid development is defeated by the mere fact that content WITH difficulty tiers didn't have any kind of content development for more than a year, while a content WITHOUT difficulty tiers just reached that point now.

But this isn't only about Fractals and Raids as the entire game's activities have been neglected the last few quarters, they only changed direction in 2020, I guess the massive revenue drops were a slap in the face and they are beginning to turn this ship around and not have open world content exclusively.

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@Aizza.4950 said:I'm just convinced Raknar isn't good enough to raid and is salty because he just whines about making them easier lol

Nice Ad hominem. I've raided in the past in a static, when only W1-3 where released, baited by the legendary armour to play content I don't enjoy. Then I've stopped raiding after asking myself why I should play content that I don't enjoy, since I've left WoW for exactly that reason: a focus on raiding content.

But what do I know, I guess a raider that uses ad hominem attacks instead of actual arguments knows better. Atleast I can recognize a meme-version of a Dhuum text ;)But your response is pretty much one of the reasons why people don't enjoy that content. You reap what you sow.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:Except we know Fractals are still in active development, can't say the same about raids, aside from Strike Missions. Maybe without the tiered fractals, they would be just as dead as dungeons? Who knows. Instanced group content just doesn't seem to be popular here

Yes they started working on fractals again some... months ago. That is still almost 14-15 months without ANY actual Fractal development. Yes they are in active development NOW, but they haven't been for many many months, more than we are without Raids - 12 months just this month. So the idea that "difficulty tiers" was somehow the problem behind Raid development is defeated by the mere fact that content WITH difficulty tiers didn't have any kind of content development for more than a year, while a content WITHOUT difficulty tiers just reached that point now.

But this isn't only about Fractals and Raids as the entire game's activities have been neglected the last few quarters, they only changed direction in 2020, I guess the massive revenue drops were a slap in the face and they are beginning to turn this ship around and not have open world content exclusively.

You're completely ignoring that aside from the easy tiers, Fractals also is gated inherently by agony resistance. It has many systems in place that make starting into that content awful. Yes, I know you don't need the resistance from the get-go, but it still makes people not care about the content.

I don't know if they have changed direction. The massive revenue drops due the focus on systems like build templates targeted at raiders and people regularly changing builds didn't really help. The majority doesn't really buy into those systems. After all, there wasn't anything else to get revenue from, aside from some gemshop skins. Buying build templates is not something the majority will do. And since the Open World content is free, there's nothing to buy for the average player.

So yeah, I hope they change their direction, but the currently planned legendary template system tells me otherwise. It will probably be another blunder, since the people that actually buy into that system are few.

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@"Raknar.4735" said:You're completely ignoring that aside from the easy tiers, Fractals also is gated inherently by agony resistance. It has many systems in place that make starting into that content awful. Yes, I know you don't need the resistance from the get-go, but it still makes people not care about the content.

I'm not ignoring anything. As you said, you do not need any agony resistance to play the "easy tiers" so your argument there is invalid. Also, Fractals is the highest source of gold in the game so that's a good reason to run them.

I don't know if they have changed direction. The massive revenue drops due the focus on systems like build templates targeted at raiders and people regularly changing builds didn't really help. The majority doesn't really buy into those systems. After all, there wasn't anything else to get revenue from, aside from some gemshop skins. Buying build templates is not something the majority will do. And since the Open World content is free, there's nothing to buy for the average player.

The massive revenue drops were due to the lack of varied content. If for 12-14 months releasing exclusively open world content was working and was successful, why the sudden change at the start of 2020, and why did the director that focused on open world exclusively left the company silently. Probably because his latest direction wasn't working. (I know he's been director for a long time)

So yeah, I hope they change their direction, but the currently planned legendary template system tells me otherwise. It will probably be another blunder, since the people that actually buy into that system are few.

Now that PVP and WVW restarted. Now that we get Strikes and Fractals are under development, we'll see if the revenue will start going up or down. There was already a hint of going up after they started their changes, so there is hope.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:You're completely ignoring that aside from the easy tiers, Fractals also is gated inherently by agony resistance. It has many systems in place that make starting into that content awful. Yes, I know you don't need the resistance from the get-go, but it still makes people not care about the content.

I'm not ignoring anything. As you said, you do not need any agony resistance to play the "easy tiers" so your argument there is invalid. Also, Fractals is the highest source of gold in the game so that's a good reason to run them.

Except that's completely wrong. It doesn't make it invalid, since people still see the systems needed to run fractals. Many don't even bother starting because of systems like that. Same way how the term "Raid" scares people off, so games like ESO have tried renaming them into "Trials".If it is the highest source of gold in the game, but few run it, isn't it pretty telling? Where's the fun? Rewards alone are not always a good reason to run content, same thing with legendary armour in raids.

I don't know if they have changed direction. The massive revenue drops due the focus on systems like build templates targeted at raiders and people regularly changing builds didn't really help. The majority doesn't really buy into those systems. After all, there wasn't anything else to get revenue from, aside from some gemshop skins. Buying build templates is not something the majority will do. And since the Open World content is free, there's nothing to buy for the average player.

The massive revenue drops were due to the lack of varied content. If for 12-14 months releasing exclusively open world content was working and was successful, why the sudden change at the start of 2020, and why did the director that focused on open world exclusively left the company silently. Probably because his
latest
direction wasn't working. (I know he's been director for a long time)

It wasn't exclusively OW content though? Just look at build templates, the huge blunder quarter Q4. That system just didn't pay off, since it was targeted at a small audience. I doubt Ahdashim helped in Q2.

So yeah, I hope they change their direction, but the currently planned legendary template system tells me otherwise. It will probably be another blunder, since the people that actually buy into that system are few.

Now that PVP and WVW restarted. Now that we get Strikes and Fractals are under development, we'll see if the revenue will start going up or down. There was already a hint of going up after they started their changes, so there is hope.

Yeah, revenue going up, now that we know a expansion is on the horizon with more content and less raids. Not the bleak future with only systems like build templates to milk some players.

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@Raknar.4735 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:You're completely ignoring that aside from the easy tiers, Fractals also is gated inherently by agony resistance. It has many systems in place that make starting into that content awful. Yes, I know you don't need the resistance from the get-go, but it still makes people not care about the content.

I'm not ignoring anything. As you said, you do not need any agony resistance to play the "easy tiers" so your argument there is invalid. Also, Fractals is the highest source of gold in the game so that's a good reason to run them.

Except that's completely wrong. It doesn't make it invalid, since people still see the systems needed to run fractals. Many don't even bother starting because of systems like that. Same way how the term "Raid" scares people off, so games like ESO have tried renaming them into "Trials".If it is the highest source of gold in the game, but few run it, isn't it pretty telling? Where's the fun? Rewards alone are not always a good reason to run content, same thing with legendary armour in raids.

It's not completely wrong unless you ignore the fact that those systems aren't even needed to play the "easy tiers" you said it yourself and now you are backtracking for some reason. The "systems" aren't used unless you reach at least T2 in Fractals, and even then only barely. You don't need anything more than a "dungeon build" to run Fractals.

I don't know if they have changed direction. The massive revenue drops due the focus on systems like build templates targeted at raiders and people regularly changing builds didn't really help. The majority doesn't really buy into those systems. After all, there wasn't anything else to get revenue from, aside from some gemshop skins. Buying build templates is not something the majority will do. And since the Open World content is free, there's nothing to buy for the average player.

The massive revenue drops were due to the lack of varied content. If for 12-14 months releasing exclusively open world content was working and was successful, why the sudden change at the start of 2020, and why did the director that focused on open world exclusively left the company silently. Probably because his
latest
direction wasn't working. (I know he's been director for a long time)

It wasn't exclusively OW content though? Just look at build templates, the huge blunder quarter. That system just didn't pay off, since it was targeted at a small audience. I doubt Ahdashim helped in Q2.

It was exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content") build templates isn't content.

So yeah, I hope they change their direction, but the currently planned legendary template system tells me otherwise. It will probably be another blunder, since the people that actually buy into that system are few.

Now that PVP and WVW restarted. Now that we get Strikes and Fractals are under development, we'll see if the revenue will start going up or down. There was already a hint of going up after they started their changes, so there is hope.

Yeah, revenue going up, now that we know a expansion is on the horizon with more content and less raids. Not the bleak future with only systems like build templates to milk some players.

You mean more varied content like, more PVP, more WVW, more fractals, and strike missions instanced content that for a change has a good release cadence. For WVW not so sure though, what they give is barely there but maybe the future is gonna be better and revenue will climb higher.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:You're completely ignoring that aside from the easy tiers, Fractals also is gated inherently by agony resistance. It has many systems in place that make starting into that content awful. Yes, I know you don't need the resistance from the get-go, but it still makes people not care about the content.

I'm not ignoring anything. As you said, you do not need any agony resistance to play the "easy tiers" so your argument there is invalid. Also, Fractals is the highest source of gold in the game so that's a good reason to run them.

Except that's completely wrong. It doesn't make it invalid, since people still see the systems needed to run fractals. Many don't even bother starting because of systems like that. Same way how the term "Raid" scares people off, so games like ESO have tried renaming them into "Trials".If it is the highest source of gold in the game, but few run it, isn't it pretty telling? Where's the fun? Rewards alone are not always a good reason to run content, same thing with legendary armour in raids.

It's not completely wrong unless you ignore the fact that those systems aren't even needed to play the "easy tiers" you said it yourself and now you are backtracking for some reason. The "systems" aren't used unless you reach at least T2 in Fractals, and even then only barely. You don't need anything more than a "dungeon build" to run Fractals.

I'm not backtracking. The systems aren't needed in T1, but still drive people away because they exist. Same way the term "Raid" drive people away, or how "Corona"-Beer had losses because of the virus. It doesn't matter if the system isn't used in T1, players will still stay away based on perception.

But still, running content that isn't fun just for a high reward is also a reason people don't play content, regardless of how hard or easy said content is.

I don't know if they have changed direction. The massive revenue drops due the focus on systems like build templates targeted at raiders and people regularly changing builds didn't really help. The majority doesn't really buy into those systems. After all, there wasn't anything else to get revenue from, aside from some gemshop skins. Buying build templates is not something the majority will do. And since the Open World content is free, there's nothing to buy for the average player.

The massive revenue drops were due to the lack of varied content. If for 12-14 months releasing exclusively open world content was working and was successful, why the sudden change at the start of 2020, and why did the director that focused on open world exclusively left the company silently. Probably because his
latest
direction wasn't working. (I know he's been director for a long time)

It wasn't exclusively OW content though? Just look at build templates, the huge blunder quarter. That system just didn't pay off, since it was targeted at a small audience. I doubt Ahdashim helped in Q2.

It was exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content") build templates isn't content.

Build templates are content and most likely the reason for the Q4 failure. Only because you can't "play" it, it doesn't mean that the devs had to spent plenty of time developing it. It is still content. The whole swiss tournament system is content, even though it is technical.

It also matters what people can actually buy for revenue. Not many buy things developed for a small %.

Going through https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release I'm still wondering where those mystical 6 to 14 months of only OW content are.

So yeah, I hope they change their direction, but the currently planned legendary template system tells me otherwise. It will probably be another blunder, since the people that actually buy into that system are few.

Now that PVP and WVW restarted. Now that we get Strikes and Fractals are under development, we'll see if the revenue will start going up or down. There was already a hint of going up after they started their changes, so there is hope.

Yeah, revenue going up, now that we know a expansion is on the horizon with more content and less raids. Not the bleak future with only systems like build templates to milk some players.

You mean more varied content like, more PVP, more WVW, more fractals, and strike missions instanced content that for a change has a good release cadence. For WVW not so sure though, what they give is barely there but maybe the future is gonna be better and revenue will climb higher.

More content as in content. More stuff to do, more systems to explore. The gamemodes are just a part of the new content. So yeah, I hope they release more things to enjoy catered towards the majority / things that pay off for Anet, unlike templates and raids, apparently.

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@"Raknar.4735" said:Instanced group content just doesn't seem to be popular hereThat's because there is no instanced group content outside of (most) story dungeons which is aimed towards the more general casual player base. It simply doesn't exist.

But there is nothing about the structure of that content which turns away these kinds of players. The issue is that whenever the Devs. want to design instanced content they somehow seem to take an increase in difficulty as a requirement when it really shouldn't be.

I remember the Devs. of another game releasing a reworked version of one of the outdated raids for an event aimed at casuals and I often times saw people in the chat writing stuff like "I wish actual raids would be like that" so a general interest to play this kind of content was there even among those who usually wouldn't go anywhere near it and I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same for GW2.

I think the game should have some instanced content for both 1-5 and 5-10 player groups aimed at the casual part of the playerbase just like I'd also like to see some OW maps where the difficulty of the events is on paar with your average raid content, I think there is a lot of untaped potential here.

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