It’s been a year since the last raid wing has come out

Raknar.4735 · June 12, 2020

@maddoctor.2738 said:
@"Raknar.4735" said:I'm not backtracking. The systems aren't needed in T1, but still drive people away because they exist. Same way the term "Raid" drive people away, or how "Corona"-Beer had losses because of the virus. It doesn't matter if the system isn't used in T1, players will still stay away based on perception.

They exist but aren't even visible, how do they drive people away? Going in circles doesn't help anyone, but you already disproved this so I'll simply move on. The truth of the matter is that content with difficulty tiers, had LESS development than content without them. And as you just said, just like the mechanics of Fractals for some reason drove players away, the word Raids also drove players away, so it's not like difficulty tiers would help much, would they?

Multiple reasons why people are driven away can exist at the same time. The existence of one doesn't nullify another one.Difficulty tiers can help more people into certain content, but complicated sounding systems like agony can throw away that benefit.How are the systems like agony not even visible? You can clearly see it. It is even integrated into a whole gearset that was created for that reason.

But still, running content that isn't fun just for a high reward is also a reason people don't play content, regardless of how hard or easy said content is.

That's hardly relevant when comparing the release pace of content with difficulty tiers versus content without them. Remember your original argument was that Raids failed because they didn't have difficulty tiers. You just put a another nail on that argument by saying Raids failed because they were called "Raids".

I wasn't the one mentioning the high rewards, they were part of your argument. I just simply comented on that line.Like I've said before, multiple reasons can drive people away. I'm not sure why you're pretending that there can only be one reason.Raids not having difficulty tiers is one of the reasons. Raids being called "Raids" is another one.

Build templates are content and most likely the reason for the Q4 failure. Only because you can't "play" it, it doesn't mean that the devs had to spent plenty of time developing it. It is still content. The whole swiss tournament system is content, even though it is technical.

Then we'll agree to disagree here. Build Templates is NOT content.

Guess we'll have to. I also consider Swiss and World Restructuring which still hasn't released content.

Going through
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release
I'm still wondering where those mystical 6 to 14 months of only OW content are.

The exact number of months will depend based on what you call "content". I gave the actual time frames since we got anything other than OW content in my first post of this thread, showing the lack of development on anything other than OW in this game. Something that seems to be changing with the latest road map, and hopefully will continue in the next one.

I've reread your post, but there's nothing about a timeframe of only OW content. I can see the separation of the different gamemodes, but not the time where we have gotten "exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content")".

More content as in content.

We've been getting the same amount of OW content as we always did. Why do you need MORE of it? Isn't the release cadence of episodes and new maps enough for you? It's everything else that needs more attention and hopefully they will get some love too.

Where have I implied that I only want OW content? I don't consider things like E-speccs, Mounts and similiar stuff OW content, but if you do, fine.

So yeah, I hope they release more things to enjoy catered towards the majority / things that pay off for Anet, unlike templates and raids, apparently.

Apparently these "things for the majority" didn't pay off for Anet judging by their latest reports. We'll see if the new, more varied, direction continues to increase revenue or not.

Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released. I really hope they don't spend too much time on those systems that only benefit those small communities that don't increase revenue.

Cyninja.2954 · June 12, 2020

@Raknar.4735 said:Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released. I really hope they don't spend too much time on those systems that only benefit those small communities that don't increase revenue.

Can you please reference the financial quarter you are referring to? Because last I checked, the steep decline of the revenue came pretty much during and after a period where nothing but open world content was released for over 1.5 years and nothing besides open world content was promised for the future (this includes lack of an expansion announcement, which just tanked revenue instead of continuing the steady decline).

Last fractal release is 1.5 years ago: Siren's Reef (slowing release cadence down to 1 fractal per year, now even slower than that)Last raid wing was released 1 year ago: Key of Ahdashim (same as fractals, slowing release cadence down to 1 raid per year)

We have since seen a continued decline, both in total earnings as well as YoY in earnings with a short recovery rise for Q1 2020, 12.530 billion KRW (approx 10.4 million US $), up by ~10.5% from 11.3 billion KRW (approx 9.38 million US $) in Q4 2019. Down by ~23.4% YoY from 16.3 billion KRW in Q1 2019 (approx 13.5 million US $).

Also not factored into those numbers for Q4 2019 are build templates. Which are far more likely to see use in a more dedicated crowd who have actual need of multiple build and equipment slots (and going by the threads on who actually uses build templates on the forums, this assumptions holds true). While they might not have sold as well as hoped/expected, they certainly will have affected Q4 of 2019. One dare not even think about what that quarters result would have been without.

maddoctor.2738 · June 12, 2020

@"Raknar.4735" said:Raids not having difficulty tiers is one of the reasons. Raids being called "Raids" is another one.

Here I will make it simpler: if Raids being called "Raids" is a problem, how would adding multiple tiers of difficulty "fix it". The same players that don't try Raids because they are called "Raids" won't suddenly try them if there are multiple difficulty tiers because the perception is still there.Furthermore, the content that DOES have difficulty tiers has LESS development than the content without it. Is having agony as an unseen and unused mechanic such an important factor to drive players that exceeds Raids being called "Raids" and Raids not having difficulty tiers? You are putting way too much emphasis on Fractal mechanics driving players away.

I've reread your post, but there's nothing about a timeframe of only OW content. I can see the separation of the different gamemodes, but not the time where we have gotten "exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content")".

Original post:

Well they hadn't done anything for sPVP from August 2019 to February 2020, 6 months, funny how the previous update regarding sPVP was in November 2018, 9 months, given that on August 2019 we got a single 2v2 map (and some new weapon skins), it's almost like 15 months so Raids have some time until they reach that point.Between March 2019 and February 2020 WVW got nothing, 11 months or so. And in those two months we got the Warclaw and then a Warclaw skin and a new armor set.The last Fractal was released on January 2019, that's 17 months without a fractal.

So from August 2019 to February 2020 we didn't get any development on PVP, WVW, Fractals or Raids. (6 months)Back in August we got a single 2vs2 PVP mapPrevious non-OW content was on June 2019 (Raid) or 8 months agoIf you want to count for WVW, Warclaw was on March 2019 (11 months)Strike Missions is an entirely new "game mode" added to the game replacing both Fractals and Raids.

Where have I implied that I only want OW content? I don't consider things like E-speccs, Mounts and similiar stuff OW content, but if you do, fine.

Mounts are OW content, E-specs are also OW content, are they acquired inside Fractals, Raids or PVP? The last ones didn't at least, maybe they will tie e-specs to other types of content but I really really doubt it.

Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released.

What thing for the minority? You mean the minority that was already using a much better and feature rich build system that was replaced by a predatory over-priced system? Build templates wasn't aimed at the minority, that "minority" was fine with the tools they already had. Q4 was the worst quarter in GW2 history, it didn't have ANY PVP, ANY WVW, ANY Fractal and ANY Raid content. It's adorable to blame the "minority" that got nothing for their content as "not paying off" but the reality is that "minority" got nothing in Q4 2019, and you still blame it! All while the "majority" got 2 easy mode Living World episodes in Q4 2019. That was the content driving GW2 in its worst quarter.

I really hope they don't spend too much time on those systems that only benefit those small communities that don't increase revenue.

We'll see what the next Road Map will be like, but I believe it will be another inclusive one.

Raknar.4735 · June 12, 2020

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@"Raknar.4735" said:Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released. I really hope they don't spend too much time on those systems that only benefit those small communities that don't increase revenue.

Can you please reference the financial quarter you are referring to? Because last I checked, the steep decline of the revenue came pretty much during and after a period where nothing but open world content was released for over 1.5 years and nothing besides open world content was promised for the future (this includes lack of an expansion announcement, which just tanked revenue instead of continuing the steady decline).

Last fractal release is 1.5 years ago: Siren's Reef (slowing release cadence down to 1 fractal per year, now even slower than that)Last raid wing was released 1 year ago: Key of Ahdashim (same as fractals, slowing release cadence down to 1 raid per year)

We have since seen a continued decline, both in total earnings as well as YoY in earnings with a short recovery rise for Q1 2020, 12.530 billion KRW (approx 10.4 million US $), up by ~10.5% from 11.3 billion KRW (approx 9.38 million US $) in Q4 2019. Down by ~23.4% YoY from 16.3 billion KRW in Q1 2019 (approx 13.5 million US $).

Also not factored into those numbers for Q4 2019 are build templates. Which are far more likely to see use in a more dedicated crowd who have actual need of multiple build and equipment slots (and going by the threads on who actually uses build templates on the forums, this assumptions holds true). While they might not have sold as well as hoped/expected, they certainly will have affected Q4 of 2019. One dare not even think about what that quarters result would have been without.

Yeah, I'm talking about Q4 2019, where Anet intended Build templates to be the big money maker. Systems targeted at a small percentage of the playerbase just don't do well.Could you show me that "nothing but open world content was released for over 1.5 years" timeframe? I've still yet to see that timeframe.

Raknar.4735 · June 12, 2020

@maddoctor.2738 said:
@"Raknar.4735" said:Raids not having difficulty tiers is one of the reasons. Raids being called "Raids" is another one.

Here I will make it simpler: if Raids being called "Raids" is a problem, how would adding multiple tiers of difficulty "fix it". The same players that don't try Raids because they are called "Raids" won't suddenly try them if there are multiple difficulty tiers because the perception is still there.Furthermore, the content that DOES have difficulty tiers has LESS development than the content without it. Is having agony as an unseen and unused mechanic such an important factor to drive players that exceeds Raids being called "Raids" and Raids not having difficulty tiers? You are putting way too much emphasis on Fractal mechanics driving players away.

You just don't get it. I won't even bother anymore. If you can't see how there can be multiple factors, and how people have different factors that can make them stay away, I don't know how to help. I give up.

I've reread your post, but there's nothing about a timeframe of only OW content. I can see the separation of the different gamemodes, but not the time where we have gotten "exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content")".

Original post:

Well they hadn't done anything for sPVP from August 2019 to February 2020, 6 months, funny how the previous update regarding sPVP was in November 2018, 9 months, given that on August 2019 we got a single 2v2 map (and some new weapon skins), it's almost like 15 months so Raids have some time until they reach that point.Between March 2019 and February 2020 WVW got nothing, 11 months or so. And in those two months we got the Warclaw and then a Warclaw skin and a new armor set.The last Fractal was released on January 2019, that's 17 months without a fractal.

So from August 2019 to February 2020 we didn't get any development on PVP, WVW, Fractals or Raids. (6 months)Back in August we got a single 2vs2 PVP mapPrevious non-OW content was on June 2019 (Raid) or 8 months agoIf you want to count for WVW, Warclaw was on March 2019 (11 months)Strike Missions is an entirely new "game mode" added to the game replacing both Fractals and Raids.

...June 2019 Ahdashim, non OW contentJune 2019 Dragon Bash, non OW content. FestivalAugust 2019 Auric Span + Mist Lord Weps, non OW content.September had 2019 had a SM, non OW content.October 2019 Haloween, non OW content. FestivalOctober 2019 Build templatesNobember 2019 three new SMs, non OW content...Where is the timeframe of only OW content? Where? Tell me, back up your claim. Where is that timeframe?

Where have I implied that I only want OW content? I don't consider things like E-speccs, Mounts and similiar stuff OW content, but if you do, fine.

Mounts are OW content, E-specs are also OW content, are they acquired inside Fractals, Raids or PVP? The last ones didn't at least, maybe they will tie e-specs to other types of content but I really really doubt it.

Lol. Sorry, but just no. Your logic would also make them WvW content, since you can get them there. I mean, they're not required in OW either.

Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released.

What thing for the minority? You mean the minority that was already using a much better and feature rich build system that was replaced by a predatory over-priced system? Build templates wasn't aimed at the minority, that "minority" was fine with the tools they already had. Q4 was the worst quarter in GW2 history, it didn't have ANY PVP, ANY WVW, ANY Fractal and ANY Raid content. It's adorable to blame the "minority" that got nothing for their content as "not paying off" but the reality is that "minority" got nothing in Q4 2019, and you still blame it! All while the "majority" got 2 easy mode Living World episodes in Q4 2019. That was the content driving GW2 in its worst quarter.

Build templates were definately aimed at the minority. Arc doesn't change that. Q4 was the worst quarter, the big money maker didn't make money because it was aimed at a playergroup that don't seem to drive revenue. SMs still aren't OW.

I really hope they don't spend too much time on those systems that only benefit those small communities that don't increase revenue.

We'll see what the next Road Map will be like, but I believe it will be another inclusive one.

Hyped for the next road map. Bet there will be no raids. Probably Fractal / Festival / LS / maybe Legendary templates?

RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 · June 12, 2020

@Raknar.4735 said:Yeah, I'm talking about Q4 2019, where Anet intended Build templates to be the big money maker. Systems targeted at a small percentage of the playerbase just don't do well.

Thats because the system is bad, not because it may or may not be targeted to a small percentage of players.Anet took away a working and free option so they could sell a template system (its not even templates) that to this day is a broken mess. My skills on renegade constantly swap places and this week i couldnt really play the game because i couldnt swap any traits on any of my classes. The entire system is broken and overly complicated. Thats why its not the big money makes.

Raknar.4735 · June 12, 2020

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:
@"Raknar.4735" said:Yeah, I'm talking about Q4 2019, where Anet intended Build templates to be the big money maker. Systems targeted at a small percentage of the playerbase just don't do well.

Thats because the system is bad, not because it may or may not be targeted to a small percentage of players.Anet took away a

working

and free option so they could sell a template system (its not even templates) that to this day is a broken mess. My skills on renegade constantly swap places and this week i couldnt really play the game because i couldnt swap any traits on any of my classes. The entire system is broken and overly complicated. Thats why its not the big money makes.

I don't disagree. In fact, I agree completely aside from the "not because..". The system is one, if not the worst system Anet has every created. Especially for revenants.It was still primarily intended for players that switch builds regularly and intended to be their big "new and exciting" feature for Q4. The system being bad and simultanously developed for a small percentage of players are both reasons why it didn't sell well.

I've used Arc myself in the past, and also use the new system. Arc never crashed me only because I had a renegade build. But that still doesn't change the fact that it was intended to replace Arc.

RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 · June 12, 2020

@"Raknar.4735" said:It was still primarily intended for players that switch builds regularly and intended to be their big "new and exciting" feature for Q4. The system being bad and simultanously developed for a small percentage of players are both reasons why it didn't sell well.

If its for players that often switch builds, why am i limited to only 6 equipment slots? I highly doubt anyone even knew what to do with this. I can imagine this being one of the reasons why its such a mess.Not talking about traits (they also have issues), because swapping them is super easy and was never annoying to me. I didnt need it with arc, it was just nice to have.

Cyninja.2954 · June 12, 2020

@Raknar.4735 said:
@maddoctor.2738 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:Raids not having difficulty tiers is one of the reasons. Raids being called "Raids" is another one.

Here I will make it simpler: if Raids being called "Raids" is a problem, how would adding multiple tiers of difficulty "fix it". The same players that don't try Raids because they are called "Raids" won't suddenly try them if there are multiple difficulty tiers because the perception is still there.Furthermore, the content that DOES have difficulty tiers has LESS development than the content without it. Is having agony as an unseen and unused mechanic such an important factor to drive players that exceeds Raids being called "Raids" and Raids not having difficulty tiers? You are putting way too much emphasis on Fractal mechanics driving players away.

You just don't get it. I won't even bother anymore. If you can't see how there can be multiple factors, and how people have different factors that can make them stay away, I don't know how to help. I give up.

I've reread your post, but there's nothing about a timeframe of only OW content. I can see the separation of the different gamemodes, but not the time where we have gotten "exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content")".

Original post:

Well they hadn't done anything for sPVP from August 2019 to February 2020, 6 months, funny how the previous update regarding sPVP was in November 2018, 9 months, given that on August 2019 we got a single 2v2 map (and some new weapon skins), it's almost like 15 months so Raids have some time until they reach that point.Between March 2019 and February 2020 WVW got nothing, 11 months or so. And in those two months we got the Warclaw and then a Warclaw skin and a new armor set.The last Fractal was released on January 2019, that's 17 months without a fractal.

So from August 2019 to February 2020 we didn't get any development on PVP, WVW, Fractals or Raids. (6 months)Back in August we got a single 2vs2 PVP mapPrevious non-OW content was on June 2019 (Raid) or 8 months agoIf you want to count for WVW, Warclaw was on March 2019 (11 months)Strike Missions is an entirely new "game mode" added to the game replacing both Fractals and Raids.

...June 2019 Ahdashim, non OW contentJune 2019 Dragon Bash, non OW content. FestivalAugust 2019 Auric Span + Mist Lord Weps, non OW content.September had 2019 had a SM, non OW content.October 2019 Haloween, non OW content. FestivalOctober 2019 Build templatesNobember 2019 three new SMs, non OW content...Where is the timeframe of only OW content? Where? Tell me, back up your claim. Where is that timeframe?

Okay, let me rephrase:No content targeted at any of the more dedicated players be it WvW, sPvp or raids/fractals was released. All of which have not seen content any new content in 1-1.5 years, with no new content in sight except for maybe fractals, which if the next one comes out within the next 6 months, would have the release time barely below 2 years. Strike missions are clearly targeted at the weaker player base given their easy difficulty for adept players and as such again not aimed at the niche pve group.

Festivals and cosmetics are in my eyes open world content. At the least festivals, given how they have no in any way challenging instanced content with only minor spvp "game modes" and no WvW content.

Turns out, if dedicated players from niche game modes are not serviced, the games revenue drops. At least that's what the timeline suggests.

So you can pretend you understand something else when people mention that there was "only open world content" released. What you can not argue against though is that there was no content for these niche groups, and revenue has been in steady decline since.

@Raknar.4735 said:
@maddoctor.2738 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:Where have I implied that I only want OW content? I don't consider things like E-speccs, Mounts and similiar stuff OW content, but if you do, fine.

Mounts are OW content, E-specs are also OW content, are they acquired inside Fractals, Raids or PVP? The last ones didn't at least, maybe they will tie e-specs to other types of content but I really really doubt it.

Lol. Sorry, but just no. Your logic would also make them WvW content, since you can get them there. I mean, they're not required in OW either.

Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released.

What thing for the minority? You mean the minority that was already using a much better and feature rich build system that was replaced by a predatory over-priced system? Build templates wasn't aimed at the minority, that "minority" was fine with the tools they already had. Q4 was the worst quarter in GW2 history, it didn't have ANY PVP, ANY WVW, ANY Fractal and ANY Raid content. It's adorable to blame the "minority" that got nothing for their content as "not paying off" but the reality is that "minority" got nothing in Q4 2019, and you still blame it! All while the "majority" got 2 easy mode Living World episodes in Q4 2019. That was the content driving GW2 in its worst quarter.

Build templates were definately aimed at the minority. Arc doesn't change that. Q4 was the worst quarter, the big money maker didn't make money because it was aimed at a playergroup that don't seem to drive revenue. SMs still aren't OW.

Actually no, build templates were aimed at the entire player base given how they were implemented. If they had been implemented for the minority, the design decisions are insanely bad.

It's why build templates failed as bad as they did:They were aimed at the entire player base, but are only of use to the minority, which in turn refused to spend as much money for the current system, while many of the more casual players simply have no need for them. It's also why they are reworking the system and potentially updating it with the legendary armory. To increase the value to the minority to get them to spend money on this or are you going to tell me this legendary armory is aimed at players with no legendaries?

Once again proving that monetization and revenue has to come out of the niche groups and when they refuse to cough up the money, the financial stream suffers.

No reason to worry though, as time moves on and more and more players from those niche groups leave, of those who have not yet left, the effect will be more evident. Let's hope the game sustains its self with only a casual crowd, because if not....

Raknar.4735 · June 12, 2020

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:
@"Raknar.4735" said:It was still primarily intended for players that switch builds regularly and intended to be their big "new and exciting" feature for Q4. The system being bad and simultanously developed for a small percentage of players are both reasons why it didn't sell well.

If its for players that often switch builds, why am i limited to only 6 equipment slots? I highly doubt anyone even knew what to do with this. I can imagine this being one of the reasons why its such a mess.Not talking about traits (they also have issues), because swapping them is super easy and was never annoying to me. I didnt need it with arc, it was just nice to have.

Can't give you an official answer there, since Anet didn't say anything about that.My guess? Because Anet didn't think it through enough.Maybe they are capped because of their Database, similiar to how we can only have a certain amount of bag/bank tabs until we're capped. But we won't know until Anet talks about that limitation.

Raknar.4735 · June 12, 2020

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:
@maddoctor.2738 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:Raids not having difficulty tiers is one of the reasons. Raids being called "Raids" is another one.

Here I will make it simpler: if Raids being called "Raids" is a problem, how would adding multiple tiers of difficulty "fix it". The same players that don't try Raids because they are called "Raids" won't suddenly try them if there are multiple difficulty tiers because the perception is still there.Furthermore, the content that DOES have difficulty tiers has LESS development than the content without it. Is having agony as an unseen and unused mechanic such an important factor to drive players that exceeds Raids being called "Raids" and Raids not having difficulty tiers? You are putting way too much emphasis on Fractal mechanics driving players away.

You just don't get it. I won't even bother anymore. If you can't see how there can be multiple factors, and how people have different factors that can make them stay away, I don't know how to help. I give up.

I've reread your post, but there's nothing about a timeframe of only OW content. I can see the separation of the different gamemodes, but not the time where we have gotten "exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content")".

Original post:

Well they hadn't done anything for sPVP from August 2019 to February 2020, 6 months, funny how the previous update regarding sPVP was in November 2018, 9 months, given that on August 2019 we got a single 2v2 map (and some new weapon skins), it's almost like 15 months so Raids have some time until they reach that point.Between March 2019 and February 2020 WVW got nothing, 11 months or so. And in those two months we got the Warclaw and then a Warclaw skin and a new armor set.The last Fractal was released on January 2019, that's 17 months without a fractal.

So from August 2019 to February 2020 we didn't get any development on PVP, WVW, Fractals or Raids. (6 months)Back in August we got a single 2vs2 PVP mapPrevious non-OW content was on June 2019 (Raid) or 8 months agoIf you want to count for WVW, Warclaw was on March 2019 (11 months)Strike Missions is an entirely new "game mode" added to the game replacing both Fractals and Raids.

...June 2019 Ahdashim, non OW contentJune 2019 Dragon Bash, non OW content. FestivalAugust 2019 Auric Span + Mist Lord Weps, non OW content.September had 2019 had a SM, non OW content.October 2019 Haloween, non OW content. FestivalOctober 2019 Build templatesNobember 2019 three new SMs, non OW content...Where is the timeframe of only OW content? Where? Tell me, back up your claim. Where is that timeframe?

Okay, let me rephrase:

No content targeted at any of the more dedicated players be it WvW, sPvp or raids/fractals was released.

All of which have not seen content any new content in 1-1.5 years, with no new content in sight except for maybe fractals, which if the next one comes out within the next 6 months, would have the release time barely below 2 years. Strike missions are clearly targeted at the weaker player base given their easy difficulty for adept players and as such again not aimed at the niche pve group.

Festivals and cosmetics are in my eyes open world content. At the least festivals, given how they have no in any way challenging instanced content with only minor spvp "game modes" and no WvW content.

Turns out, if dedicated players from niche game modes are not serviced, the games revenue drops. At least that's what the timeline suggests.

So you can pretend you understand something else when people mention that there was "only open world content" released. What you can not argue against though is that there was no content for these niche groups, and revenue has been in steady decline since.

Idk, for me it seems like you're doing a whole lot of pretending. Pretending that certain content is open world when it clearly is not.I'm still not seeing the 1-1.5 years gap, even if you rephrase it as No content targeted at any of the more dedicated players be it WvW, sPvp or raids/fractals was released.

I mean, I could easily say we haven't gotten content targeted at any of the more dedicated OW players, since Triple Trouble was the last release, but that's just painting the world how you want to see it. Completely subjective metrics.

SMs are targeted to bridge players into raids, so clearly not at the weaker playerbase. Maybe at the average one. They are not open world content. They are still niche content.

Didn't know cosmetics are open world. So any new Sets in PvP or WvW are OW? Wow.Festivals combine multiple types of content, they aren't OW. They may be in your eyes, but that would just be you pretending.

Turns out revenue drops when you try to release a system that is only targeted at a niche as the big money maker.

@Raknar.4735 said:
@maddoctor.2738 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:Where have I implied that I only want OW content? I don't consider things like E-speccs, Mounts and similiar stuff OW content, but if you do, fine.

Mounts are OW content, E-specs are also OW content, are they acquired inside Fractals, Raids or PVP? The last ones didn't at least, maybe they will tie e-specs to other types of content but I really really doubt it.

Lol. Sorry, but just no. Your logic would also make them WvW content, since you can get them there. I mean, they're not required in OW either.

Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released.

What thing for the minority? You mean the minority that was already using a much better and feature rich build system that was replaced by a predatory over-priced system? Build templates wasn't aimed at the minority, that "minority" was fine with the tools they already had. Q4 was the worst quarter in GW2 history, it didn't have ANY PVP, ANY WVW, ANY Fractal and ANY Raid content. It's adorable to blame the "minority" that got nothing for their content as "not paying off" but the reality is that "minority" got nothing in Q4 2019, and you still blame it! All while the "majority" got 2 easy mode Living World episodes in Q4 2019. That was the content driving GW2 in its worst quarter.

Build templates were definately aimed at the minority. Arc doesn't change that. Q4 was the worst quarter, the big money maker didn't make money because it was aimed at a playergroup that don't seem to drive revenue. SMs still aren't OW.

Actually no, build templates were aimed at the entire player base given how they were implemented. If they had been implemented for the minority, the design decisions are insanely bad.

It's why build templates failed as bad as they did:They were aimed at the entire player base, but are only of use to the minority, which in turn refused to spend as much money for the current system, while many of the more casual players simply have no need for them. It's also why they are reworking the system and potentially updating it with the legendary armory. To increase the value to the minority to get them to spend money on this.

Na, they were implemented to replace Arc. The majority didn't even use Arc. They probably don't even use the templates and run around with the same build. You can pretend it wasn't aimed at the minority all you want. Same thing for the legendary armory, still only targeted to be used by the minority.

Cyninja.2954 · June 12, 2020

@Raknar.4735 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:
@maddoctor.2738 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:Raids not having difficulty tiers is one of the reasons. Raids being called "Raids" is another one.

Here I will make it simpler: if Raids being called "Raids" is a problem, how would adding multiple tiers of difficulty "fix it". The same players that don't try Raids because they are called "Raids" won't suddenly try them if there are multiple difficulty tiers because the perception is still there.Furthermore, the content that DOES have difficulty tiers has LESS development than the content without it. Is having agony as an unseen and unused mechanic such an important factor to drive players that exceeds Raids being called "Raids" and Raids not having difficulty tiers? You are putting way too much emphasis on Fractal mechanics driving players away.

You just don't get it. I won't even bother anymore. If you can't see how there can be multiple factors, and how people have different factors that can make them stay away, I don't know how to help. I give up.

I've reread your post, but there's nothing about a timeframe of only OW content. I can see the separation of the different gamemodes, but not the time where we have gotten "exclusively open world content for about 6 to 14 months (based on what you might call "content")".

Original post:

Well they hadn't done anything for sPVP from August 2019 to February 2020, 6 months, funny how the previous update regarding sPVP was in November 2018, 9 months, given that on August 2019 we got a single 2v2 map (and some new weapon skins), it's almost like 15 months so Raids have some time until they reach that point.Between March 2019 and February 2020 WVW got nothing, 11 months or so. And in those two months we got the Warclaw and then a Warclaw skin and a new armor set.The last Fractal was released on January 2019, that's 17 months without a fractal.

So from August 2019 to February 2020 we didn't get any development on PVP, WVW, Fractals or Raids. (6 months)Back in August we got a single 2vs2 PVP mapPrevious non-OW content was on June 2019 (Raid) or 8 months agoIf you want to count for WVW, Warclaw was on March 2019 (11 months)Strike Missions is an entirely new "game mode" added to the game replacing both Fractals and Raids.

...June 2019 Ahdashim, non OW contentJune 2019 Dragon Bash, non OW content. FestivalAugust 2019 Auric Span + Mist Lord Weps, non OW content.September had 2019 had a SM, non OW content.October 2019 Haloween, non OW content. FestivalOctober 2019 Build templatesNobember 2019 three new SMs, non OW content...Where is the timeframe of only OW content? Where? Tell me, back up your claim. Where is that timeframe?

Okay, let me rephrase:

No content targeted at any of the more dedicated players be it WvW, sPvp or raids/fractals was released.

All of which have not seen content any new content in 1-1.5 years, with no new content in sight except for maybe fractals, which if the next one comes out within the next 6 months, would have the release time barely below 2 years. Strike missions are clearly targeted at the weaker player base given their easy difficulty for adept players and as such again not aimed at the niche pve group.

Festivals and cosmetics are in my eyes open world content. At the least festivals, given how they have no in any way challenging instanced content with only minor spvp "game modes" and no WvW content.

Turns out, if dedicated players from niche game modes are not serviced, the games revenue drops. At least that's what the timeline suggests.

So you can pretend you understand something else when people mention that there was "only open world content" released. What you can not argue against though is that there was no content for these niche groups, and revenue has been in steady decline since.

Idk, for me it seems like you're doing a whole lot of pretending. Pretending that certain content is open world when it clearly is not.I'm still not seeing the 1-1.5 years gap, even if you rephrase it as

No content targeted at any of the more dedicated players be it WvW, sPvp or raids/fractals was released.

SMs are targeted to bridge players into raids, so clearly not at the weaker playerbase. Maybe at the average one. They are not open world content. They are still niche content.

Didn't know cosmetics are open world. So any new Sets in PvP or WvW are OW? Wow.Festivals combine multiple types of content, they aren't OW. They may be in your eyes, but that would just be you pretending.

Turns out revenue drops when you try to release a system that is only targeted at a niche as the big money maker.

You can do as many mental gymnastics as you want. Fact remains: dedicated players of WvW, Spvp and pve challenging content have not seen content releases and are also not likely to see any.

The fact you count Strike Missions as not for weaker players shows how out of touch you are with players from those niche modes (at least for pve). Pretty much every more dedicated raider I know laughs at strikes. Most have left the game by now too.

As for the remainder, fine, let's not count it as content for any player group. Still does not change the fact that niche players have not seen any content as mentioned by me in 1-1.5 years with none on the horizon. So many just move on to another game, and with them their money.

@Raknar.4735 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:
@maddoctor.2738 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:Where have I implied that I only want OW content? I don't consider things like E-speccs, Mounts and similiar stuff OW content, but if you do, fine.

Mounts are OW content, E-specs are also OW content, are they acquired inside Fractals, Raids or PVP? The last ones didn't at least, maybe they will tie e-specs to other types of content but I really really doubt it.

Lol. Sorry, but just no. Your logic would also make them WvW content, since you can get them there. I mean, they're not required in OW either.

Those things for the minority also didn't pay off and gave us the worst quarter since GW2 released.

What thing for the minority? You mean the minority that was already using a much better and feature rich build system that was replaced by a predatory over-priced system? Build templates wasn't aimed at the minority, that "minority" was fine with the tools they already had. Q4 was the worst quarter in GW2 history, it didn't have ANY PVP, ANY WVW, ANY Fractal and ANY Raid content. It's adorable to blame the "minority" that got nothing for their content as "not paying off" but the reality is that "minority" got nothing in Q4 2019, and you still blame it! All while the "majority" got 2 easy mode Living World episodes in Q4 2019. That was the content driving GW2 in its worst quarter.

Build templates were definately aimed at the minority. Arc doesn't change that. Q4 was the worst quarter, the big money maker didn't make money because it was aimed at a playergroup that don't seem to drive revenue. SMs still aren't OW.

Actually no, build templates were aimed at the entire player base given how they were implemented. If they had been implemented for the minority, the design decisions are insanely bad.

It's why build templates failed as bad as they did:They were aimed at the entire player base, but are only of use to the minority, which in turn refused to spend as much money for the current system, while many of the more casual players simply have no need for them. It's also why they are reworking the system and potentially updating it with the legendary armory. To increase the value to the minority to get them to spend money on this.

Na, they were implemented to replace Arc. The majority didn't even use Arc. They probably don't even use the templates and run around with the same build. You can pretend it wasn't aimed at the minority all you want. Same thing for the legendary armory, still only targeted to be used by the minority.

Well then the developers failed miserably. The fact they are trying to "fix" the system with legendary armory though shows that they have hope to generate revenue from these niche groups. Why else would they even bother?

Simple, because that's where the money is.

Raknar.4735 · June 12, 2020

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:
@maddoctor.2738 said:
@Raknar.4735 said:Raids not having difficulty tiers is one of the reasons. Raids being called "Raids" is another one.