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Running antitoxin rune & still being unable to do anything vs Immob ranger/druid


solemn.9670

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:I am running cleanse sigil, sigil of generosity, antitoxin rune, and even with food & water signet creating a total of -65% incoming condi duration, also with weapon condi cleanses, I am unable to do anything beyond sit and die to immob rangers. They bind me, I attack and attack and attack and even though I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds it takes far too long just to kill the roots, and then I'm immobed again, cleanse it, immobed again immediately, and then the roots are back again already and I proceed to die stupidly to someone playing a build that is 0% risk 100% reward.

I actually can't think of anything worse in the game that I've ever encountered, at any point in time. I would rather fight 3 condi mirages than 1 immob ranger. I would rather fight perma-stealth no-balls rifle deadeye. At least I can PLAY the game vs those builds.

We have already been discussing this in the Ranger section... The fight you had lasted 3 minutes and you were outplayed. And if you wanna complain about Immobilize (again), then let's discuss what to nerf on Weaver since you "win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking." and have a pretty steady supply of Barrier... And this game isn't 1v1 btw.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103025/wvw-binded-once-every-6-seconds-immobed-every-2-seconds-without-binds-not-ok

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

-solemn

@holiboy.4637 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

-solemn

Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

Edit- “I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”... We're gonna have to nerf that “3-shot” stuff, and Barrier too, if you want to nerf Immobilize on other professions.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:Ty that's a good tipButThis brings me to the same issue I have with the condi meta. I don't want to be boxed into running one rune/setup just because one or two builds are ridiculous, and running this to counter them puts me at a competitive disadvantage vs every other build in the game where I'd benefit more from other runes.Then dont.

I dont want be boxed into running a ranged condi bunker over a few obscene enemy power builds because it puts me at a competetive disadvantage over anti-condi/condi-transfer or against larger groups due to exponentially decreaseing effectivness or against reflects either but there you go.

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The problem is condi as an effect was never intended for a main dmg effect so the counter condi clears are very simple effects only going after the last condi applied. This dose not work well in pvp or wvw it fine in pve though.

The fix is to make condi clears have an order of condition to hit much like boon strips / corruption do. All of the nerfs and buffs to condi and adding more clears to the game will do nothing but be an endless tail chasing. Condi clears needs to be updated in a massive way.

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At first I thought it was a 60% troll post, since I don't understand how you can complain about condis when playing with antitoxin runes and cleansing sigils, especially in a 1v1 scenario. Maybe you should try to actually build yourself around avoiding getting hit by condis and using cleansing/antitoxin as a backup, instead of facetanking and trying to clear every single condi ? Just a thought, idk.

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@Jski.6180 said:The problem is condi as an effect was never intended for a main dmg effect so the counter condi clears are very simple effects only going after the last condi applied. This dose not work well in pvp or wvw it fine in pve though.

The fix is to make condi clears have an order of condition to hit much like boon strips / corruption do. All of the nerfs and buffs to condi and adding more clears to the game will do nothing but be an endless tail chasing. Condi clears needs to be updated in a massive way.

You have to realize the nature of Ancient Seeds is to continually apply immob until the roots are destroyed. No amount of cleanse priority, cleanse per sec or mass cleanse even will help you deal.

It is very clear this trait has 3 intended counters:

  • Destroy root (like a mesmer clone)
  • Evade incoming CC skills
  • Force a dodge after a 1-time cleanse

As for every condi build in this game, they have 4-5 skills you need to be aware of. If your build is remotely good you will have enough sustain to forget about the other condition applications.

This is no different from a power build. If you eat a warrior's F1 into Full Counter into F1, you should lose 75% of your health no question about it. It's all about saving your cleanse until the right time instead of panic cleansing after the 1st of 5 applications - just like when to dodge against a power build.

Here is how to never worry about ranger immob ever again:

  1. Equip a sigil of Energy/Cleansing in both sets
  2. When immobed weapon-swap and instantly dodge in any direction

You can do this trick every 10 seconds, which literally is the exact same cooldown as their immob and it will always work since the immob reapplies (therefore comes first for cleanse) every second.

I can't stress enough how important it is to dodge right after your cleanse when fighting an immob druid because the roots will reapply it otherwise. Even better there is a good chance the druid will waste his burst here because he thinks he got you stuck.

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@rng.1024 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:The problem is condi as an effect was never intended for a main dmg effect so the counter condi clears are very simple effects only going after the last condi applied. This dose not work well in pvp or wvw it fine in pve though.

The fix is to make condi clears have an order of condition to hit much like boon strips / corruption do. All of the nerfs and buffs to condi and adding more clears to the game will do nothing but be an endless tail chasing. Condi clears needs to be updated in a massive way.

You have to realize the nature of Ancient Seeds is to continually apply immob until the roots are destroyed. No amount of cleanse priority, cleanse per sec or mass cleanse even will help you deal.

It is very clear this trait has 3 intended counters:
  • Destroy root (like a mesmer clone)
  • Evade incoming CC skills
  • Force a dodge after a 1-time cleanse

As for every condi build in this game, they have 4-5 skills you need to be aware of. If your build is remotely good you will have enough sustain to forget about the other condition applications.

This is no different from a power build. If you eat a warrior's F1 into Full Counter into F1, you should lose 75% of your health no question about it. It's all about saving your cleanse until the right time instead of panic cleansing after the 1st of 5 applications - just like when to dodge against a power build.

Here is how to never worry about ranger immob ever again:
  1. Equip a sigil of Energy/Cleansing in both sets
  2. When immobed weapon-swap and instantly dodge in any direction

You can do this trick every 10 seconds, which literally is the exact same cooldown as their immob and it will always work since the immob reapplies (therefore comes first for cleanse) every second.

I can't stress enough how important it is to dodge right after your cleanse when fighting an immob druid because the roots will reapply it otherwise. Even better there is a good chance the druid will waste his burst here because he thinks he got you stuck.

That dose not changed the fact that condi clears as an effect is out dated for a version of the game that has not been part of real balancing for years now. The old condi system had most skill used condis as a supplementary type of effects often just having 1 or 2 condis on a skill on some what high duration but very long cd. As they added in more condi types and gear as well as much lower cd of the skills they made condis into there own skill type but the counter never got the update it needed as well.

Roots should stop ppl for only for a moment it should never stop you forever but it should make you use a condi clear just 1 condi clear not your full uritily bar to eat though all of the cover condi spam. You can destroy roots effects you can even clear the full bar of condi once but after that your simply out of skill to a way 10 sec cd of a pulsuing root effect how is that even balance.You seem to miss that its not just the root in a lot of ways its not the root it self that IS the problem here its the spam of other condis that cover the root making it where you need to use 2 -3 skills to get to that root effect for one pulsus only to have to do it all over for the next root skill or pulses. Something like warriors root even ele root are not as bad NOT because they do not pulses but because these classes lack condi cover.

Its realty simple how to fix this you make condi clears hit condi types not the last condi applied. The way the game is balanced condi "boons" (as they are simply netive boons that you apply on others) are not treated like positive boons. Clears and conversion should act just like strips and corruptions. If they dont then the game will always need to lean more on the def side of game play then aggressive.

Added note: Per dev. it seems like not all strips have priority of boon types that very much news to me. I still stand by my suggestion for condi clears.

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@"Swagger.1459" said:We have already been discussing this in the Ranger section... The fight you had lasted 3 minutes and you were outplayed. And if you wanna complain about Immobilize (again), then let's discuss what to nerf on Weaver since you "win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking." and have a pretty steady supply of Barrier... And this game isn't 1v1 btw.

The fight I had lasted 3 minutes and I was outplayed? I'm sure I've been killed by a ranger recently and they probably did outplay me, maybe they genuinely did, or maybe it was 2am on a sat morning and I was off my rocker, but the fact that you're assuming I'm even referencing that ONE time out of the hundreds of interactions I've had in WvW recently is laughable.

Yes I have a 50 second cooldown supply of barrier which can easily be countered by simply going on the defensive. And yes I've earned my ability to win most of my matchups, I've been maining ele for years now. I realize I'm not the only ele main around here but the fact that this cannot be said about the VAST majority of them says enough. There is no ego in that statement, it's a video game, I couldn't care less if you thought I was absolute trash - but the fact of the matter is that I'm not, and you can cry about me winning my matchups if you are so inclined. There is a reason why I don't win them all - BETTER PLAYERS, or better builds, or simply outplayed occasionally.

Edit- “I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”... We're gonna have to nerf that “3-shot” stuff, and Barrier too, if you want to nerf Immobilize on other professions.Nah you're right, take away the only 3 DPS skills I have. While you're at it, make thieves unable to hit for more than 2k. Make warriors only able to hit 4k max. But let deadeyes just straight up 1-shot people. Burn me for being able to combo somebody down IF I am even so lucky AND they are running glassy, though.Hope no one ever puts you in charge of balance.

@"Kondor.2904" said:At first I thought it was a 60% troll post, since I don't understand how you can complain about condis when playing with antitoxin runes and cleansing sigils, especially in a 1v1 scenario. Maybe you should try to actually build yourself around avoiding getting hit by condis and using cleansing/antitoxin as a backup, instead of facetanking and trying to clear every single condi ? Just a thought, idk.

Oh cool .. yet another "LUL JUST DODGE" post. Clearly we should all be listening to this guy since he's better than all of us put together, I mean, he doesn't "facetank", he just magically avoids being hit by condi and runs zero cleanses whatsoever. Clearly a pro like this runs no armour/runes/sigils/food at all and just uses his amazing skill to avoid the non-stop condi spam of which there are not enough evades/invulns/blocks/etc in the game to possibly avoid.

Brb let me just predict this condi application which has no pre-cast animationlet me just go do thatso I can """""stop facetanking""""

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:Ty that's a good tipButThis brings me to the same issue I have with the condi meta. I don't want to be boxed into running one rune/setup just because one or two builds are ridiculous, and running this to counter them puts me at a competitive disadvantage vs every other build in the game where I'd benefit more from other runes.Then dont.

I dont want be boxed into running a ranged condi bunker over a few obscene enemy power builds because it puts me at a competetive disadvantage over anti-condi/condi-transfer or against larger groups due to exponentially decreaseing effectivness or against reflects either but there you go.

Then don't.See how easy it is to just blanket everything with that statement.Balance in this game in general has never been perfect.Immob druid is absurdly out of balance. Start with it, and move from there down.


I don't care if what I'm saying is a popular opinion or not.You could tell a room of 100 people that the earth is round and be sure that 5% of them won't understand the statement and another 5% will disagree.There are always pockets of the internet, echo chambers sometimes, where this 10% thrives.

Make a convincing statement as to why immob druid is not absurdly op.

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Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

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@"kiwituatara.6053" said:Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

I think the reason I find it so absurd is because I'm running a full melee build with a lot of mobility. Because I have so much mobility, it's basically not so different from a ranged build, so I don't generally struggle with rangers - or, I didn't, before patch. Since I can't move, I can't CC, attack their pet etc.. One of my cleanses is a weapon swap which on ele I am doing constantly, so there is no way to assure that I'll have the cleanse at the appropriate time, another is a dodge, which I cannot do while rooted/immobed, another is locked behind a 4-8 second attunement cooldown, and the other requires a critical hit which I cannot do without any ranged attacks and probably wouldn't suffice anyway because chances are it ends up transferring cripple/bleed instead.

I could run fire weaver, which has much easier cleanse uptime -- and I have done this before -- and every time he would immob me to bait a cleanse, I'd be immobed again and before someone says "just dodge after cleansing" yes I've tried that, the next immob is only a few seconds away don't worry, you're GOING to be immobed again, that's the problem with this build. Too many GD immobs.

And anyway, is anyone here seriously challenging the idea that being immobed/CC constantly while fighting off condi simultaneously is an unfun and unrewarding meta? Seriously, do people like this? Are we happy with this?

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So basically you have two players running some kind of sustain build. The Weaver is more so a sustain build versus condi than a general sustain build.

The condi Druid is struggling to get the Weaver down because the weaver has a lot of cleanses and barrier. The Weaver is struggling because the Druid is also using decent amounts of cleanse but also has stealth and mobility skills to avoid getting hit with many applications of condi.

But, because the Weaver lacks stealth and took more hits over time compared to the Druid, the Druid wins the overall fight after an extended engagement. Without Ancient Seeds, the Druid wouldn’t have been able to apply enough conditions to overwhelm the Weaver and the fight would probably have stalemated out.

Which sounds really painfully awful to me. Why should Ancient Seeds be nerfed? Mobility skills that cleanse immobilize or a single cleanse + dodge get you out of the seeds. There is counter play. You want your build to passively counter the seeds without having to play around it. Seeds aren’t a normal immobilize. If I have to fight this build I don’t think “I need to cleanse.” I think “I need to use mobility to get out of the seeds.” It’s like a pulsing field but tiny. It’s not “just dodge.” It’s “don’t stand in red circles.”

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:I am running cleanse sigil, sigil of generosity, antitoxin rune, and even with food & water signet creating a total of -65% incoming condi duration, also with weapon condi cleanses, I am unable to do anything beyond sit and die to immob rangers. They bind me, I attack and attack and attack and even though I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds it takes far too long just to kill the roots, and then I'm immobed again, cleanse it, immobed again immediately, and then the roots are back again already and I proceed to die stupidly to someone playing a build that is 0% risk 100% reward.

I actually can't think of anything worse in the game that I've ever encountered, at any point in time. I would rather fight 3 condi mirages than 1 immob ranger. I would rather fight perma-stealth no-balls rifle deadeye. At least I can PLAY the game vs those builds.

immobilized every 1.5 seconds. Yikes.It's easy to deal with if you are playing a warrior, any skill involving movement, will cleanse it and move away from the root. The rest? P.R.A.Y.

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@Baldrick.8967 said:I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

Feel free to replicate my results.Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

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@"saerni.2584" said:So basically you have two players running some kind of sustain build. The Weaver is more so a sustain build versus condi than a general sustain build.

The condi Druid is struggling to get the Weaver down because the weaver has a lot of cleanses and barrier. The Weaver is struggling because the Druid is also using decent amounts of cleanse but also has stealth and mobility skills to avoid getting hit with many applications of condi.

But, because the Weaver lacks stealth and took more hits over time compared to the Druid, the Druid wins the overall fight after an extended engagement. Without Ancient Seeds, the Druid wouldn’t have been able to apply enough conditions to overwhelm the Weaver and the fight would probably have stalemated out.

Which sounds really painfully awful to me. Why should Ancient Seeds be nerfed? Mobility skills that cleanse immobilize or a single cleanse + dodge get you out of the seeds. There is counter play. You want your build to passively counter the seeds without having to play around it. Seeds aren’t a normal immobilize. If I have to fight this build I don’t think “I need to cleanse.” I think “I need to use mobility to get out of the seeds.” It’s like a pulsing field but tiny. It’s not “just dodge.” It’s “don’t stand in red circles.”

You can't just deconstruct everything down to the theoretical. I play weaver relatively aggressively and if a fight lasts over 2.5 minutes I'll usually just disengage because they're clearly running full sustain which I do not. Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.

& since when is binding roots a red circle/field that you can simply step out of.You are required to clear the roots & clear the immob/wait it out, at which point you will be immobilized again and then given roots again.But I should "just dodge" or "don't stand in red circles", I assume. Thx


Alright you know what, I'll test the druid build. I know it's obviously going to be easier to counter if I'm more familiar with it. It just struck me as being absurdly powerful, even for a build that I hadn't tried and thus didn't really understand. There are a few builds like that out there though, and they're all relatively intuitive in their counters -- yet immob druid is something different.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"Baldrick.8967" said:I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

Feel free to replicate my results.Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

Using your own words...

You brag that you have a 70%-80% win rate in 1v1. You brag that you don’t have any problems beating Ranger builds. You brag that you can 3 shot stuff. You brag that you can run a damage build that has “Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.”... aka great use of barrier and healing capabilities that we all know about... You brag about all this stuff but now you have a huge problem with immobilized bc you were outplayed and lost... That’s your problem, not with Druid.

There are ways to deal with Immobilized. Druid has been in existence for 5 years. Most have shed learning curves from the last e-specs. None of that matters to you because all you care about is winning and cannot accept losing... That’s clear to read from you, and I’m not the only one who sees that...

Don’t blame Druid, or Immobilized, just because the devs made Ele limited to 1 weapon or 1 set of weapons in combat. If you run a melee weapon then you are stuck to mostly melee attacks, so of course if you get immobilized it’s hard. But that’s not the design fault of Druid or Immobilized, that’s an Ele trade off for having double the amount of skills through attunements.

Stop blaming everyone else for your loss. And stop asking for nerfs just because you lost. And again, this game isn’t Duel Wars 2, it’s a team based game and you are complaining about 1v1 stuff in a mode primarily designed for Realm vs Realm combat.

Edit- And trapper Druid is an absolute joke outside of 1v1. It doesn’t do jack squat for any team based play. It’s essentially a junk build with a niche use. Immobilized is a joke too in team based play, and there are far better uses of skills and traits outside of 1v1.

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Kinda related.

Ancient Seeds might actually be the dumbest design (not must overpowered or anything, just by far most toxic) I have seen in any game every.

I don't know how someone comes up with

"If you attack an already CCed enemy, CC them more".

In a game where CC being spammy is one of it's biggest issues.

From an actual balance perspective I have no idea why this trait only got 10 sec CD, it basically procs an ultimate that has 60 sec cd on your enemy with a very easy condition to meet.

Condi druid would not be a thing without ancient seeds, just remove that trait, maybe also rework Jacaranda's embrace, roots should be limited to entangle.

Unrelated to any of this, remove the stuns from pets that aren't of their f2 skill, random passive CC is not good design.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"Baldrick.8967" said:I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

Feel free to replicate my results.Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

Using your own words...

You brag that you have a 70%-80% win rate in 1v1. You brag that you don’t have any problems beating Ranger builds. You brag that you can 3 shot stuff. You brag that you can run a damage build that has “Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.”... aka great use of barrier and healing capabilities that we all know about... You brag about all this stuff but now you have a huge problem with immobilized bc you were outplayed and lost... That’s your problem, not with Druid.

There are ways to deal with Immobilized. Druid has been in existence for 5 years. Most have shed learning curves from the last e-specs. None of that matters to you because all you care about is winning and cannot accept losing... That’s clear to read from you, and I’m not the only one who sees that...

Don’t blame Druid, or Immobilized, just because the devs made Ele limited to 1 weapon or 1 set of weapons in combat. If you run a melee weapon then you are stuck to mostly melee attacks, so of course if you get immobilized it’s hard. But that’s not the design fault of Druid or Immobilized, that’s an Ele trade off for having double the amount of skills through attunements.

Stop blaming everyone else for your loss. And stop asking for nerfs just because you lost. And again, this game isn’t Duel Wars 2, it’s a team based game and you are complaining about 1v1 stuff in a mode primarily designed for Realm vs Realm combat.

Edit- And trapper Druid is an absolute joke outside of 1v1. It doesn’t do jack squat for any team based play. It’s essentially a junk build with a niche use. Immobilized is a joke too in team based play, and there are far better uses of skills and traits outside of 1v1.

Actually, immobilized is a very powerful condition in blob vs blob. Eles that run arcane (elemental surge) can mass immob enemies, hence making bombs much more potent. By no means is immob a joke in teamplay.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"saerni.2584" said:So basically you have two players running some kind of sustain build. The Weaver is more so a sustain build versus condi than a general sustain build.

The condi Druid is struggling to get the Weaver down because the weaver has a lot of cleanses and barrier. The Weaver is struggling because the Druid is also using decent amounts of cleanse but also has stealth and mobility skills to avoid getting hit with many applications of condi.

But, because the Weaver lacks stealth and took more hits over time compared to the Druid, the Druid wins the overall fight after an extended engagement. Without Ancient Seeds, the Druid wouldn’t have been able to apply enough conditions to overwhelm the Weaver and the fight would probably have stalemated out.

Which sounds really painfully awful to me. Why should Ancient Seeds be nerfed? Mobility skills that cleanse immobilize or a single cleanse + dodge get you out of the seeds. There is counter play. You want your build to passively counter the seeds without having to play around it. Seeds aren’t a normal immobilize. If I have to fight this build I don’t think “I need to cleanse.” I think “I need to use mobility to get out of the seeds.” It’s like a pulsing field but tiny. It’s not “just dodge.” It’s “don’t stand in red circles.”

You can't just deconstruct everything down to the theoretical. I play weaver relatively aggressively and if a fight lasts over 2.5 minutes I'll usually just disengage because they're clearly running full sustain which
I do not
. Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.

& since when is binding roots a red circle/field that you can simply step out of.You are required to clear the roots & clear the immob/wait it out, at which point you will be immobilized again and then given roots again.But I should "just dodge" or "don't stand in red circles", I assume. Thx

Alright you know what, I'll test the druid build. I know it's obviously going to be easier to counter if I'm more familiar with it. It just struck me as being absurdly powerful, even for a build that I hadn't tried and thus didn't really understand. There are a few builds like that out there though, and they're all relatively intuitive in their counters -- yet immob druid is something different.

I only meant sustain in terms of condi. With that much cleanse it took him an awfully long time to kill you.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"Baldrick.8967" said:I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

Feel free to replicate my results.Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

Using your own words...

You brag that you have a 70%-80% win rate in 1v1. You brag that you don’t have any problems beating Ranger builds. You brag that you can 3 shot stuff. You brag that you can run a damage build that has “Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.”... aka great use of barrier and healing capabilities that we all know about... You brag about all this stuff but now you have a huge problem with immobilized bc you were outplayed and lost... That’s your problem, not with Druid.

Bragging? Only someone very insecure would consider that bragging .. I am so sorry to have offended your pride. No, fact of the matter is that most people I come across roaming in WvW are kind of on the noob side, and when I encounter a reasonably good player I either have a very satisfying 1v1 where I lose or win, doesn't matter to me, or I absolutely get my ass handed to me. Don't really care, had fun. But I win most of my matchups, because most of the players I fight are just average players.

I don't generally have issues fighting most ranger builds. That has remained true, I don't see the issue here. I just struggle with the immob builds because they're ridiculous.

I can 3-shot certain builds with a little bit of luck, if they're caught off guard or on cooldowns, and running glassy. MANY other builds in the game are better than my build for ganking, LOL.

I was outplayed by who exactly? Who has outplayed me on druid that you are referencing? I don't really care, I just want to know who it was because you KEEP going on and on and on and on about this druid who """outplayed""" me with excessive immobilizes. I'd love to see them do it on a build that is half as cheesy! And either way, do you think I care about one player beating me? Do you really think I have as much of an ego in this game as you do, that I would care? Keep clutching to your comments about me having barrier access while ranger has nearly the same utility-skill, rofl...

Man, you really have it out for me, I don't understand ... are you envious, do you feel threatened or something?

There are ways to deal with Immobilized. Druid has been in existence for 5 years. Most have shed learning curves from the last e-specs. None of that matters to you because all you care about is winning and cannot accept losing... That’s clear to read from you, and I’m not the only one who sees that...

Sure I do, and good for you/them for "seeing" what I've been freely admitting this entire time. But have you asked me anything about this, by the way? Nah, cause then you wouldn't be able to just assume random nonsense / create strawman fallacies to kick down in order to prove some non-point :'D

Don’t blame Druid, or Immobilized, just because the devs made Ele limited to 1 weapon or 1 set of weapons in combat. If you run a melee weapon then you are stuck to mostly melee attacks, so of course if you get immobilized it’s hard. But that’s not the design fault of Druid or Immobilized, that’s an Ele trade off for having double the amount of skills through attunements.

Great, good for that, excessive immob access is still an unbalanced gameplay mechanic.

Stop blaming everyone else for your loss. And stop asking for nerfs just because you lost. And again, this game isn’t Duel Wars 2, it’s a team based game and you are complaining about 1v1 stuff in a mode primarily designed for Realm vs Realm combat.

Great, we all know that, good for that. Excessive immob access is still an unbalanced gameplay mechanic.

Edit- And trapper Druid is an absolute joke outside of 1v1. It doesn’t do jack squat for any team based play. It’s essentially a junk build with a niche use. Immobilized is a joke too in team based play, and there are far better uses of skills and traits outside of 1v1.Ty, the god of PvP, everyone.

Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points about my own competence (which no one came here to read about) because he was so incredibly offended by the fact that I actually win most of my matchups and that losing to immob druid played by average/below-average players is kind of annoying. We have now spent our time discussing completely irrelevant things, like how good/bad I am at the game because you just couldn't handle my (valid) comment. Thank you, great contribution to the thread!

Are you done crying? Please exit the thread if you just came here to troll.edit: rofl, do you know this guy has me blocked in-game already? On both accounts. That's actually hilarious. Awwww! I'm sorry :'DPretty clear why he's giving me a hard time lmao, he's mad.

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This strikes me as the sort of situation taking earth line was born for. Diamond skin basically makes you immortal vs condi druids and earthen blessing can get tossed on to add insult to injury. The banality and terrible synergy with other lines earth has though makes this really unappealing, and difficult to fit into most builds, even as a temporary swap.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"kiwituatara.6053" said:Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

I think the reason I find it so absurd is because I'm running a full melee build with a lot of mobility. Because I have so much mobility, it's basically not so different from a ranged build, so I don't generally struggle with rangers - or, I didn't, before patch. Since I can't move, I can't CC, attack their pet etc.. One of my cleanses is a weapon swap which on ele I am doing constantly, so there is no way to assure that I'll have the cleanse at the appropriate time, another is a dodge, which I cannot do while rooted/immobed, another is locked behind a 4-8 second attunement cooldown, and the other requires a critical hit which I cannot do without any ranged attacks and probably wouldn't suffice anyway because chances are it ends up transferring cripple/bleed instead.

I could run fire weaver, which has much easier cleanse uptime -- and I have done this before -- and every time he would immob me to bait a cleanse, I'd be immobed again and before someone says "just dodge after cleansing" yes I've tried that, the next immob is only a few seconds away don't worry, you're GOING to be immobed again, that's the problem with this build. Too many GD immobs.

And anyway, is anyone here seriously challenging the idea that being immobed/CC constantly while fighting off condi simultaneously is an unfun and unrewarding meta? Seriously, do people like this? Are we happy with this?

I dunno about druids being meta, theres a reason people don't use druids in spvp. I think your build just gets countered by immob druids, probably good to change it up a bit. Its like if I run power melee soulbeast, I have very little chance against condi necros.

I think if you have enough -incoming condition duration, you don't even need to use condi cleanse, you can just walk out of the roots cuz they tick 1s of immob every 1s? Antitoxin runes is -25%, some foods are -20%. Or just run diamond skin. Bring a focus to the fight for CCs. And you should really try focusing on pets, they die reallllly quickly, especially on druids since they have -20% stats as elite spec 'trade-offs"

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