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[Survey] Worst class in the game after last patch?


Deadlysword.2718

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I love how players just pick their main in polls like these lol. Yeah soulbeast,tempest, revs and holo's are definitely worst classes in the game right now. Proof bias is a lie lol.

They probably voted based on subject rather than looking that it is based on PvP/WvW

True I never considered that to be honesy

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The title should be changed to WVW/PVP to match the content.

Since PVP/WVW is balanced differently, you can not combine them.

PVE end game: Necro is by far the worst. All the benches prove it. Necros are below average in WVW/PVP now, but not the worst.PVP end game: This is more debatable. Memsers have it bad in PVP but have the top DPS and the best Tank spec for end game PVE.

Combining really alters things, and does not help at all.

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@aymnad.9023 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I love how players just pick their main in polls like these lol.While that is true, an other issue is that people are voting for every game mode if you look at the comments (PvE, WvW, sPvP, maybe open world who knows), making it even more meaningless.

Ur 100% right, my statement was was wrong as I never considered the pve aspect.

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I went with necromancer not just because of how "Good" it might be but based on its overall design. Necromancer has the worst design philosophy in the game, bar none. Regardless if its top tier or not, the necromancer's design is absolute garbage. It can't be balanced with its current design, and its overall an extremely unfun class to play and fight.

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@"Lily.1935" said:I went with necromancer not just because of how "Good" it might be but based on its overall design. Necromancer has the worst design philosophy in the game, bar none. Regardless if its top tier or not, the necromancer's design is absolute garbage. It can't be balanced with its current design, and its overall an extremely unfun class to play and fight.

What makes you think this about necro?

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:I went with necromancer not just because of how "Good" it might be but based on its overall design. Necromancer has the worst design philosophy in the game, bar none. Regardless if its top tier or not, the necromancer's design is absolute garbage. It can't be balanced with its current design, and its overall an extremely unfun class to play and fight.

What makes you think this about necro?

Death shroud. The skills are poorly designed and its traits and skills are extremely Linear. It's a hyper selfish class that is held back by this selfishness and if its buffed too much it dominates low end PvP. But its also low skill and extremely low reward for everything except for the Scourge which is held back by the festering corpse that is core necromancer. It poorly synthesizes with the core spec needing special nerfs to keep it in check and was over nerfed because of its unusual design.

Scourge rather than spawning physical creatures that could be targeted and killed with high damage output they're untouchable that used to have semi decent damage but way too much control and have since been crippled making the spec a have a much higher skill ceiling than core and reaper but no higher of a reward for your trouble. Its extremely strange to me since scourge is using a totem mechanic and the shades don't have totem vulnerabilities.

You have reaper which is just a hot mess. It had some cool design but it was designed as appeasement for the zerker meta necromancer players who were complaining that necromancer wasn't viable in this extremely toxic meta environment of which only 2 classes were viable with 2 others being fringe use. So reaper, a elite spec designed to be the dedicated tank class with decent damage without much dedication to toughness was outshined instantly by the Chronomancer which could do what reaper did but 10x better. Granted, reaper was finally good in dungeons to which their rewards were nerfed. Further issues was that it was designed around the chill condition. The strongest condition in the game and they gave it a trait which made it a powerful dot on top of its debilitating effect. Reaper with its extremely high tankiness and access to high amounts of chill with half a dozen cover conditions made it way too oppressive in PvP while after the Jagged horror nerf it was completely forgotten in PvE. So you had this tank that could dish out more damage than a normal tank but was pathetic in its dps compared to a dps and its support non existent. Reaper languished for years and is still pretty underwhelming.

Now for core. Core has a lot of issues. Its primary mechanic of death shroud has passive damage reduction which reaper inherits while scourge does not. This reduction is noticeable and the life force pool is just massive being about 2/3rds the total health of the necromancer. This makes an incredibly time consuming class to fight with low damage output which can make fights with them not worth it. But if you're in a group this attrition class is worn down really quickly which means what it was designed to do is it's very weakness. And because its defenses are so locked into its shroud it lacks critical defenses elsewhere meaning if you can focus fire them they're a free kill.

Now for WvW. In WvW which I wanted to address separately, the necromancer has never had good damage here except for the early days of scourge. But because of the way life force works and their general bulk they become the perfect zerg unit. Damage doesn't matter when their defensive abilities is almost always maxed out which as long as you have units to buff them up or they can buff themselves[which they can, they're selfish] you have the perfect zergling. Tough and in high numbers they're a massive threat even if their DPS is nerfed to hell and back they're still just a threat since they always get refreshed by winning.

I forgot to mention the utility problem with necromancer. Which since they're locked out of their utility while in shroud this strips them of gameplay that would make them far more interesting to fight and play.

There are a lot of things mechanically I'd change about necromancer given just how similar shroud is to Dungeons and Dragons druid's wild shape only worse I'd rework shroud to be more utility than raw health. First I'd reduce the overall health it gives you. Rather than 2/3rds I'd go with half and 3/5ths while traited. I'd remove the damage reduction from shroud entirely and put the missing defenses in other skills, giving them teleports and short duration invulns or blocks. I'd increase their support a lot. Such as making death have real supposed traits as well as moving eternal life to death as a grandmaster in place of Unholy Sanctuary which I'd get rid of. I'd give some support to soul reaping and diversify blood magic a bit more so transfusion isn't an auto take. I'd roll the Condi duration of lingering curse into the scepter and figure something else to do with the trait. I'd remove parasitic bond from Curses and replace it with some form of support. I'd change dagger so its skill 3 sacrificed health instead of caused self bleed but the skill would cause your other dagger skills to change into new skills that are empowered by your sacrifice giving dagger a burst damage utility. Completely rework staff as a support weapon, make axe auto attack a chain skill, give the necromancer access to utility in shroud perhaps even healing. Some skills or traits would cause sacrifice of health for great power. Warhorn being given a trait to convert wail of doom into an aoe fear. Role sinister shroud into the baseline. Scourge would be given much of its damage back but their shades would be killable and death nova would trigger on them to add synergy with death. Heard of sorrow would have its charge time reduced and its recharge reduced since taking it as a dps os a straight up dps loss... I could go on and on really.

The dungeons and dragons druid has a lot of similarities with the GW2 necromancer in terms of what it can do. But it just does it a lot better. Druid does burning, toxic damage, bleeding, summons companions, heals and its beast form is similar to death should. Its honestly a better necromancer mechanically, at least in 5e. It doesn't have the recharge on death or life stealing really, but it does basically everything else without a draw back and much more. So I'd say if they're going to make something mechanical similar make it a good version of that mechanical niche as opposed to a much weaker and less interesting version.

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I think no class is weak. Some may not fit ones playstyle so one can't perform too good with them but that doesn't mean the class itself is bad. For example I will never be a good elementalist. But the class is strong nontheless. I really like the balance, each class has weaknesses and stfong sides.

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Scourage res is good for beginner groups that die a lot. That is its saving grace, and even with that, other support specs are better for an organized group. Necro doesn't have a top DPS end game PVE spec.

Speaking of: Mesmer is the it DPS spec and it Tank for endgame PVE.

We have a barrier scourge in our raid static as offheal if need be. It's brilliant and definitely not just for beginner group strikes.

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I played a lot of PvP recently.

Considering that experience I feel like, in the current “environment”, the weakest profession could be Mesmer, followed by Necromancer, then maybe Revenant. I’m not sure about Warrior.

Every other professions seems to have at least one incredibly strong build.

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@Lurana.7506 said:I think no class is weak. Some may not fit ones playstyle so one can't perform too good with them but that doesn't mean the class itself is bad. For example I will never be a good elementalist. But the class is strong nontheless. I really like the balance, each class has weaknesses and stfong sides.

A lot of the weaknesses of the classes, In my opinion, is caused by an early balancing choice Arena net made before launch. The removal of a unified energy mechanic for each of the classes had an unintended consequence of removing a means of balance. You can nerf or buff skills with energy costs but without that pillar you need to rely on cast time, effectiveness(damage, effect, duration), and Recharge. This seems fine at first, but it strips other aspects of gameplay such as wise use of resources or means to combat energy through conditions that tax energy or field effects that influence it in some way. Sure, the system we have now is theoretically simpler, but it also means that balancing can have far more drastic consequences to balance.

I live energy mechanics which is why I really like Scourge and Revenant. Which i'm not going to say that energy mechanics stop balancing issues from happening. They don't, but it is a pillar that shouldn't have been ignored or removed.

BUT with that said, not much we can do about it now. I have my quibbles with other profession's designs and not just necromancer's as I'm known for on the forums.

Revenant's energy mechanic matters too little in my opinion and the constant requirement of swapping legends to refill it causes a somewhat disjointed flow for the class. It also lacks utility and weapon options which holds it back.

Elementalist has just too much going on at once. Being able to attune to all elements at all times doesn't allow for elite specs to really specialize all that well which I personally dislike.

Engineer Is extremely reliant on kits in most situations and other utility are often extremely lacking in comparison especially turrets which fall far behind.

Mesmer is much too rogue like for my taste, lacking the real control aspect it was known for in GW1. Its lack of hex like abilities holds it back in my opinion.

Guardian is too DPS focused along with its fantastic support it becomes extremely dominant where its good. I'd much prefer it if the Guardian was more akin to a traditional Paladin than how powerful it is now.

Now those are just my opinions and not based in any hard fact or rule. Its my feelings on these classes. I don't have complaints for Rangers since I kinda feel they're about perfect as they are, but I'm not a ranger player so my perspective is a mute point. I don't play warrior or Thief enough to even come close to giving my perspective so I wont.

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I will say mesmer, only because us warriors still have SB and core to fall back on. Berserker though....yeesh...that's all I have to say. Ever since the "rework" berserker is a literal PAPER cannon. Yup! You read right, paper. I don't call it a glass cannon...it's a paper cannon. Berzerker is very prone to cc and its sustainability has been gutted to the ground. Of course this is mainly in pvp, wvw is ok

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@youle.5824 said:How can you vote thief when there are over 4 builds that can be used at highest pvp tier play on it.. condi core meta, condi DrD, power dp DrD meta, power sd DrD DE used by 1-2 in plat 3 NA and 1 EU as well..

Some players are considering the classes state in pve not pvp. The pole doesnt specify a spacific mode. I made the same assumption as u.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"youle.5824" said:How can you vote thief when there are over 4 builds that can be used at highest pvp tier play on it.. condi core meta, condi DrD, power dp DrD meta, power sd DrD DE used by 1-2 in plat 3 NA and 1 EU as well..

Some players are considering the classes state in pve not pvp. The pole doesnt specify a spacific mode. I made the same assumption as u.

I think it's more accurate to say that not everyone base it's opinion on the same criterions. For example I base my opinion on gameplay experience (or QoL if you like), while other will base theirs on numbers (raw damage/defense) or even on "metabattle".Thiefs have seen their ability to one shot other character significantly reduced and thus they believe they were hit hard (Which is true since a lot of thief focus on one shot strategy due to the design of the profession. I can easily understand why "thief mains" relying on this kind of strategy think their profession is now the "worst").

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