Mantra of Solace in PvP and WvW nerfed to worthless. Why?!?

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

My question isn't some much about the nerf as to looking at it in comparison to all of the other healing skills and trait combinations , has anybody found an example of something that make sense out of this kind of heavy handed reduction , I'm not saying there isn't one but I haven't found one or at least not one to validate this degree of a reduction. Sorry for the out of dated question but I have kind of steered away from FB after the constant nerf hammer attacks on it(and I was never a big fan of Mantras).

[RisenHowl.2419]

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:My question isn't some much about the nerf as to looking at it in comparison to all of the other healing skills and trait combinations , has anybody found an example of something that make sense out of this kind of heavy handed reduction , I'm not saying there isn't one but I haven't found one or at least not one to validate this degree of a reduction. Sorry for the out of dated question but I have kind of steered away from FB after the constant nerf hammer attacks on it(and I was never a big fan of Mantras).

They changed quickness to grant vitality instead of toughness, so they removed the healing from mantra of solace to compensate

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Mantras for healing are in a difficult place as they have no effective cooldown and thus can be used to proc traits like Smiter's Boon and bonuses from Runes on every ICD, so even though it appears weak on some builds it's very powerful.

There's also the fact that the benefits from Quickness are baked into the skill.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Mantras for healing are in a difficult place as they have no effective cooldown and thus can be used to proc traits like Smiter's Boon and bonuses from Runes on every ICD, so even though it appears weak on some builds it's very powerful.

There's also the fact that the benefits from Quickness are baked into the skill.

The cool down issue was my thoughts also but then I checked the Mesmer's healing mantra and I saw that there wasn't a reduction in it's healing output for competitive(pvp,wvw) and the mesmer's also would benefit from runes(Superior Rune of Flock being particularly helpful) in the same way and again Quickness is also easily accessible for Mesmer so that again doesn't support the reasoning for the amount of the reduction without seeing the some sort of reduction to the Mesmer's healing mantra output which there isn't and pointing to Smiter's Boon is rather mixed being as it has a 20 second cool down and the Vitality gain is only while you have Quickness up so again it's value isn't overwhelming. So overall I'm looking at taking the output from 977 where it was after the big balance patch in Feb and then dropping to 199 in March so there was a loss approximately 80% of it's healing output value. Just curious what anyone else's take on this is.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Mantras for healing are in a difficult place as they have no effective cooldown and thus can be used to proc traits like Smiter's Boon and bonuses from Runes on every ICD, so even though it appears weak on some builds it's very powerful.

There's also the fact that the benefits from Quickness are baked into the skill.

The cool down issue was my thoughts also but then I checked the Mesmer's healing mantra and I saw that there wasn't a reduction in it's healing output for competitive(pvp,wvw) and the mesmer's also would benefit from runes(Superior Rune of Flock being particularly helpful) in the same way and again Quickness is also easily accessible for Mesmer so that again doesn't support the reasoning for the amount of the reduction without seeing the some sort of reduction to the Mesmer's healing mantra output which there isn't and pointing to Smiter's Boon is rather mixed being as it has a 20 second cool down and the Vitality gain is only while you have Quickness up so again it's value isn't overwhelming. So overall I'm looking at taking the output from 977 where it was after the big balance patch in Feb and then dropping to 199 in March so there was a loss approximately 80% of it's healing output value. Just curious what anyone else's take on this is.

Quickness used to give 150 toughness, they changed it to 150 vitality. Or another way to see it is that gaining quickness now acts as a 1.5k heal. To compensate for the extra healing, they nerfed the healing on the mantra, because it is the only way to proc quickness often.

[otto.5684]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:My question isn't some much about the nerf as to looking at it in comparison to all of the other healing skills and trait combinations , has anybody found an example of something that make sense out of this kind of heavy handed reduction , I'm not saying there isn't one but I haven't found one or at least not one to validate this degree of a reduction. Sorry for the out of dated question but I have kind of steered away from FB after the constant nerf hammer attacks on it(and I was never a big fan of Mantras).

They changed quickness to grant vitality instead of toughness, so they removed the healing from mantra of solace to compensate

This was wayyyy back before the change to mantra of solace. They are not remotely related. Also, per Anet the change was done for PvE purposes, exchanging toughness for vitality, to prevent players from pulling agro. Quickness Uptime for FB in sPvP is close to nonexistent. This is not a factor in anything.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

With regard to the swap of Toughness to Vitality I seem to remember some discussion about the dev's addressing players concerns about how the intermittent adjustments to the health pool would work out but I can't find the thread, but either way you look at how this plays out in the competitive side it is careless because particularly in a PvP mode you really have nothing in the way of uptime for Quickness. So again here is another example of a "Buff" that is actually a Nerf but in addition they Nerf the healing mantra to balance out for the so called Buff that was actually a nerf , go figure.

Just for clarity the mantras only give 1 sec and 4 sec., the Elite "Feel My Wrath" gives 5 sec, Liberator's Vow and Stalwart Speed both give 2 sec and Swift Scholar only gives 1 1/2 sec(competitive). You might be able to keep uptime going first run through all of you Tomes but once they go on cool down you uptime is going to be short.

[Ragnarox.9601]

haha mantra 150 heal thats my food tick :D FB is garbage now, I actually made dps working before all the nerfs, mantra that gives 1.5s quickness hahaha worthless now (before had 4 sec and was actually worth taking). They nerfed everything instead of actually dividing self benefit from party/area benefit which can be easily adjusted if ppl were crying about something on FBs. Next xpac I wont buy if they actually dont make dps version of guardian cause DH dps is garbage, FB is even worse and I didnt bought 2 expansions just to put my main to shelf cause its useless in everything except healing/bunkering that I dont like....