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Running antitoxin rune & still being unable to do anything vs Immob ranger/druid


solemn.9670

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@Swagger.1459 said:you were also outplayed over the course of 3 minutes and would have killed the Ranger had it not been for being immobilized... And the real problem here is that you are unwilling to change or ask for advice. It’s not like there aren’t counters to it, you just refuse to accept and learn from the loss.

Tell me how not being able to do anything is being outplayed.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You didn't need to repeat yourself, you needed to read what I wrote. Immob Druid is the HARD COUNTER to your build. Simple. It's ranged with lots of soft CC and kiting and you are melee that relies on mobility. There are some match ups that you just cannot win no matter what (skill being equal) and this is one of them, hence HARD COUNTER.

I'm citing Dunning-Kruger because of obvious reasons.

Edit: I just watched the video. How can you possibly be complaining about that? You either ran into or shadowstepped onto Every. Single. Trap. Not to mention, there's not even that much immob going on at all in that long duel.

Oh yeah cause when I'm using mobility/evasive skills/you know, playing the game, I try to keep track of where invisible shit on the ground is. Like any normal person. Lol.You're citing dunning-kruger because you'd rather be grandiloquent and condescending than acknowledge when a build is too powerful.

You keep citing how it's a hard counter to my build without acknowledging that the REASON why it is a hard counter is because IT IS OVERPOWERED.Lol

@Chaba.5410 said:I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

I don't even like running the build I was using in that video most of the time these days, sword/dagger is too slow, I'm much happier in fresh air d/d but that has even less condi cleanse.

If none of the mainstream ele builds can fight immob druid fairly, it's not a hard counter, it's OP. A hard counter can be hard-countered if you're good at the game. An OP build cannot.

@KrHome.1920 said:Ancient Seeds is annoying, but the way the OP descibes it, sounds like a big L2P issue.

Counters:

  • stability
  • cleanse and dodge
  • teleport
  • destroy the root with a high damage melee skill

The frequent reapplication is possible, because the trait has plenty of ways to deal with it. It's a cheese trait because it has its best effect on trailblazer gear which grants incredible tankyness and does even improve the immob duration. But it's far from being one of the worst examples of anets balancing fails.

The high damage possible in wvw compared to pvp, which makes it easier to destroy the root, is the reason the cooldown is 10s in wvw and 20s in pvp.

-I have stability uptime-I have cleanses and dodges-I have shadowsteps-I have enough melee dps to destroy the roots

I utilize all of these factors properly when fighting immob druid. It's just absurdly overpowered, end of story.

@Swagger.1459 said:@"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

Here is a story for ya... There is a really good player in the game that struggled fighting Mesmer builds. So that person asked friends to load up their Mesmer builds so they could practice 1v1s. Over time that player got better at fighting Mesmers.

Moral of the story is maybe next time chat with the person you lost to and practice, instead of all the other stuff.

I've actually done exactly that and found mesmers to be much easier ever since. However, back when condi mirage WAS OVERPOWERED, knowing how they did it wasn't as helpful. Because they were overpowered.

See how this works?

@Swagger.1459 said:@"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

There are some choices we have to deal with losses...

1- Post on the forums to ask the community for advice and tips.

Or

2- Complain that something is overpowered just because you lost to it, while also highlighting the facts that you win most of the time, can 3 shot most builds, can run a dps build that also a ton of defenses...

Choosing number 1 is a better option.

Man, are you a journalist because you sure love to cherry-pick/manipulate information that makes your bias seem correct instead of discuss relevant issues.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Chaba.5410 said:I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

BRUH

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

“I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.”

“I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”

“sustain very well and 1vX”

“Shoutout to Cellofrag”

“Elementalist is broken”

Weaver is way more... “absurdly overpowered, end of story.” than Trapper Druid. So you let me know when a Trapper Druid can “1vX” and win “7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating.” better than your, according to “Cellofrag”, broken Weaver... But you already knew all that because according to you... “ Weaver still OP”.

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@Chaba.5410 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Chaba.5410 said:I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

BRUH

@Swagger.1459 said:@"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

“I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.”

“I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”

“sustain very well and 1vX”

“Shoutout to Cellofrag”

“Elementalist is broken”

Weaver is way more... “absurdly overpowered, end of story.” than Trapper Druid. So you let me know when a Trapper Druid can “1vX” and win “7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating.” better than your, according to “Cellofrag”, broken Weaver... But you already knew all that because according to you... “ Weaver still OP”.

The point is that the immob druid barely needs to try ... and if I try my very hardest/do literally everything I can, I barely have a chance.Which one sounds more overpowered? The one that takes skill or the one that doesn't but wins anyway?

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Maybe you could make your own sb/s-t trapper druid and show us better results in wvw and spvp than your weaver? I’m sure many of us would be excited to see videos of you 1vXing and winning 7-8/10 duels.

Edit- Also, make sure to use the same slot skills as the player you fought and be sure to not edit any videos. You could also ask Cellofrag to duel you a bunch and show us how it goes.

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@"Swagger.1459" said:Maybe you could make your own sb/s-t trapper druid and show us better results in wvw and spvp than your weaver? I’m sure many of us would be excited to see videos of you 1vXing and winning 7-8/10 duels.

Edit- Also, make sure to use the same slot skills as the player you fought and be sure to not edit any videos.

This is the core problem in trying to have a dialogue with you. You do not understand. You think "weaver, in the right hands, is very good, therefore it's OP. Druid, in the wrong hands, is OP, therefore it's very good".

Your logic is backwards and you have now created a strawman to knock down and proclaim "ah! See! He won't do it because weaver is more OP", which isn't the case.

For someone who talks so much about skill level, you sure are unwilling to acknowledge that it plays a role in whether or not a build is balanced. Being able to faceroll keys and immob for days is unbalanced. Pressing every skill in the right order at the right time while analyzing what the opponent is doing and using movement/attunement changes accordingly, and just generally keeping track of a lot of things at once, is balanced because not everyone can do that.

Many others can, but judging by the way you're forming your arguments, I'd love to see this challenge reversed. Why don't you make your own weaver video and win 7/10 duels. Druid cannot do what you asked me to do with it, but weaver certainly can. Let's see how you fare.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Maybe you could make your own sb/s-t trapper druid and show us better results in wvw and spvp than your weaver? I’m sure many of us would be excited to see videos of you 1vXing and winning 7-8/10 duels.

Edit- Also, make sure to use the same slot skills as the player you fought and be sure to not edit any videos.

This is the core problem in trying to have a dialogue with you. You do not understand. You think "weaver, in the right hands, is very good, therefore it's OP. Druid, in the wrong hands, is OP, therefore it's very good".

Your logic is backwards and you have now created a strawman to knock down and proclaim "ah! See! He won't do it because weaver is more OP", which isn't the case.

For someone who talks so much about skill level, you sure are unwilling to acknowledge that it plays a role in whether or not a build is balanced. Being able to faceroll keys and immob for days is unbalanced. Pressing every skill in the right order at the right time while analyzing what the opponent is doing and using movement/attunement changes accordingly, and just generally keeping track of a lot of things at once, is balanced because not everyone can do that.

Many others can, but judging by the way you're forming your arguments, I'd love to see this challenge reversed. Why don't you make your own weaver video and win 7/10 duels. Druid cannot do what you asked me to do with it, but weaver certainly can. Let's see how you fare.

You were outplayed then. And if you think trapper Druid is as OP as weaver, as you well know, show us your unedited videos. And if you aren’t that good on trapper Druid then it should be easy to see just how much immobilized carries you in 1vX, duels and against players like Cell.

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@Chaba.5410 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Chaba.5410 said:I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

BRUH

Hahahaha

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Chaba.5410 said:I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

BRUH

@Swagger.1459 said:@"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

“I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.”

“I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”

“sustain very well and 1vX”

“Shoutout to Cellofrag”

“Elementalist is broken”

Weaver is way more... “absurdly overpowered, end of story.” than Trapper Druid. So you let me know when a Trapper Druid can “1vX” and win “7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating.” better than your, according to “Cellofrag”, broken Weaver... But you already knew all that because according to you... “ Weaver still OP”.

The point is that the immob druid barely needs to try ... and if I try my very hardest/do literally everything I can, I barely have a chance.Which one sounds more overpowered? The one that takes skill or the one that doesn't but wins anyway?

Bruh, I get what you're trying to say, but going through all your cooldowns multiple times with your health above 75% most of the time is not "barely a chance". And in that video the druid doesn't often have skills off cooldown and he's using them almost as soon as they do come off cooldown so I can't understand why you're saying that the druid "barely needs to try". He's doing literally everything he can too. Your post really comes off sounding like "anything I can't beat immediately is OP!"

Objectively, from that video, both your build and the druid's are pretty evenly matched and the only edge either one of you got in was when you guys made some mistake. There's plenty of builds that don't counter immob druid too well. You found one that does so congrats.

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@Chaba.5410 said:There's plenty of builds that don't counter immob druid too well.Imo, more than plenty, and too many. Hence this thread ..

@"LetoII.3782" said:This guy is a pvp God, y'all not getting it.Nobody should be beating him /thread

I don't understand why a few of you seem to be so obsessed over me. I never said or even slightly implied this. It's like pointing out that 2+2=4 and having people say "LOOK AT THIS GUY, HE'S A MATH GENIUS" ... no, I'm just stating facts ... get over yourself lol, nobody cares if you think I'm bad/good. This thread is not about ME. Please, stop the obsession, it's flattering but pointless and wasteful.

@"Swagger.1459" said:You were outplayed then. And if you think trapper Druid is as OP as weaver, as you well know, show us your unedited videos. And if you aren’t that good on trapper Druid then it should be easy to see just how much immobilized carries you in 1vX, duels and against players like Cell.

Just defaults to "you were outplayed" and ignores everything I said.I'll reply when you respond to my challenge, since your challenge is silly and mine isn't.

Seriously you guys are obsessed about videos. I don't record every time I fight a druid :'D go out into wvw and see for yourself, someone already posted a video showcasing how silly and unbalanced it is, I'm not wasting more time than I have to on this when the issue is willful ignorance.

I've already stated in this thread that I would benefit from learning the ins/outs of the druid immob build and that it's true that I lose vs them partially because I'm unfamiliar. After I stated this, everyone proceeded to drone on like a broken record about videos and skill and such ... we are discussing balance ... please stay on the subject and my lord, stop talking about me. I do not care what you think of me, we are discussing whether or not druid immobilization is balanced.

Yes? Explain why.No? Explain why.I do not care if you think I'm good/bad at the game. It's insane that I have to even say that, for ... the third time in this thread? Can you guys obsess over someone else? I do not care. Stay on the subject, say something relevant.

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@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW./Thread

Lmao I can't make this shit up if I tried

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW./Thread

Lmao I can't make this kitten up if I tried

Did you honestly think I'd bother to read past the title? :lol:

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@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW./Thread

Lmao I can't make this kitten up if I tried

Did you honestly think I'd bother to read past the title? :lol:

Well at least you're honest and have a sense of humour .. not like many of the above posters lol

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So this is what I understood from op and the vid:Weaver is very hard to play, as a result Weaver SHOULD win most if not all fights.Immob druid is a meme hence it should get nerfed to the groundIf someone agrees with what we say, it's "insightful commenting". If someone disagrees, it's bad.

Btw, weaver is as a meme as this druid, if not more. I personally see 10 weavers for each immob druid.

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Pulsing immobilize shouldn't be a thing, ever. Make it one long duration, not reapply after it's been cleansed.

How is one long duration a balance solution when a single cleanse can hard counter it? Long durations are only truly viable in PvE against NPCs that never cleanse. Duration increase in WvW is for capitalizing on opponent's mistakes and only needs a little longer duration to do.

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@Chaba.5410 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Pulsing immobilize shouldn't be a thing, ever. Make it one long duration, not reapply after it's been cleansed.

How is one long duration a balance solution when a single cleanse can hard counter it? Long durations are only truly viable in PvE against NPCs that never cleanse. Duration increase in WvW is for capitalizing on opponent's mistakes and only needs a little longer duration to do.

It's one of the single most powerful condi in the game, it stops you dead in your tracks and prevents you from dodging and basically guarantees you die in a team fight because you're stuck. A single condi cleanse countering it is literally how all condi works that isn't from a marked AoE, and even then you can just move out of the AoE. Why should your busted condi be able to counter one of the things meant to counter it? If I cleanse it, it should be gone and not reapplied because I couldn't move in the first place. It's like thief being able to remove revealed from itself.

Also, cover condi. Bury the immobilize that's at a longer duration and it's much less likely to be cleansed.

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