Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Why Thief roaming players. Give people a bad impression. Is it caused by infinite stealth stacking?


Flee.5602

Recommended Posts

@saerni.2584 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Most thieves are just lousy players because they use stealth as a crutch. Throw a target painter on them and they just run away and if they don't they die fast because they don't know how to fight without stealth.

It’s my new favorite past time during roaming tbh. I notice someone target painted me and then I destroy them anyway because my build isn’t designed around long duration stealth.

But to be fair, if you run a stealth based build for defense and the enemy uses an auto reveal item it is completely legitimate to retreat until the Mark timer is up. If a item is fair to use against steathing opponents then mobility and retreat are perfectly acceptable counterplay in my eyes. You call stealth a crutch but it’s part of the basic class design for avoiding damage.

You misinterpreted what I said . I did not say stealth was a crutch. I said stealth is USED as crutch by lousy players. I agree that some are very capable of fighting without it but the majority don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 102
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@LetoII.3782 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

Must be an honor thing.

Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

Pfft I meant all those people who know how overpowered thief is but choose to make poor, weak Necro variants the most played class in WvW.

lol they know thieves are overpowered but they choose to make weak necro variants? Its like saying Atom Bombs in WWII is overpowered so lets counter that with Hand Grenades. Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Jabronee.9465 said:Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be
some
explanation why people choose the weaker class...

Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jabronee.9465 said:

@Jabronee.9465 said:Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be
some
explanation why people choose the weaker class...

Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

You should be able to see and hear the smoke fields, right? But No no, go ahead, continue.

It's true though, there are hardly any thieves compared to necs or other classes. I mean you may get a grp like SA or other gank grps but most roaming grps dont even use thief anymore but have necros in them with pocket healers lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@LetoII.3782 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

Must be an honor thing.

Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

Pfft I meant all those people who know how overpowered thief is but choose to make poor, weak Necro variants the most played class in WvW.

100% this^ sure as hell not 20 necros for every 1 thief in wvw cuz thief is strong and necro weak lol. Prob more necro/specs even in pvp now then thief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jabronee.9465 said:

@Jabronee.9465 said:Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be
some
explanation why people choose the weaker class...

Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)

Your teammates are also invisible to you?Facepalm indeed.

And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially.

And why are they needed?Just what is it that they bring to the table?Careful now...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Yasai.3549 said:The only reason I've ever hated Thief in WvW is ever since they gave them Shadow Portal.

Nothing is more infuriating than a DE is endlessly Stealthed in inner keep only to open a free path into the keep minutes later for a easy cap without defenders even realising they were around.

Even if yu realise there is a DE in the keep, they are extremely difficult to catch because of all their stealth applications and 2 charges of revealed removal.

Yu can literally blanket the entire inner with Reveal skills and not find the DE.

This is why these days it's pretty much a MUST to slot and activate Radar upon capping a Keep, just for the primary reason of outting pest like DEs still hiding.

And doing so prevents other useful anti siege tactics to be slotted in its place.

In all honesty, I find this method to be more of a balance, as it's about providing opportunity to small groups and servers with a lower active population in WvW that can't fend against servers that have a high active population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Jabronee.9465 said:Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be
some
explanation why people choose the weaker class...

Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)

Your teammates are also invisible to you?Facepalm indeed.

In wvw you are only talking about yr team? (Double Facepalm). So if there are no thief in my squad it should also mean less to no thieves on the opposing server? lolz.

And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially.

And why are they needed?Just what is it that they bring to the table?Careful now...

If you dont understand my previous reply you have no worries as you are forgiven.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Jabronee.9465 said:Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be
some
explanation why people choose the weaker class...

Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

You should be able to see and hear the smoke fields, right? But No no, go ahead, continue.

Ah i see. I guess other classes running around maps looking for smoke fields to count how many thieves. Great tactics brah. I have to salute you. Twice!

It's true though, there are hardly any thieves compared to necs or other classes. I mean you may get a grp like SA or other gank grps but most roaming grps dont even use thief anymore but have necros in them with pocket healers lol

Most roaming groups on your server or on other servers? NA or EU? I guess you have accounts on every servers on both NA and EU. A true dedicated fan indeed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Ubi.4136" said:There are several problems with stealth. Not all of those problems are even thief related.

  1. Stealth should not be random or timed, it should be turn on or turn off, meaning permanent unless combat actions are taken or revealed/damaged.
  2. Players should move slower in stealth, ~60% move speed untraited, 80-85% normal speed if traited (obviously have to add those traits).
  3. Stealth players should always be visible in a radius around you, ~120 maybe. That way you get a fraction of a second for counterplay as you would see them right before attacked. Mounted players would not get the detection radius. No mounted hunting parties looking for slower moving stealthers.
  4. Revealed (all forms, even marked) need removed and replaced with an increased detection radius (maybe 240) if traited (obv. need to add that too).
  5. Removal of reveal means the thief portal needs changed/removed or set to thief only. Due to permanent stealth availability.
  6. Stealth ends when combat starts. Once in combat, the stealther can not restealth (deadeye elite being the only way to stealth in combat, on a single use charge). This requires reworking a lot of things on multiple classes.
  7. Weapon skills require a target to use (including spirit weapons and wells/shades). This prevents spamming marks/aoe's to tag stealthers and remove stealth. Traps would still put the stealther in combat and remove stealth (maybe a specific few). All skills would require line of sight to use. No more rev porting through obstacles or barrage shots over walls. This would also make walls usable for defenders, since now spamming aoe's on walls would give you "no line of sight to target", or "out of range". Siege damage would not remove stealth, except the arrow cart skill.
  8. Very short duration stealth skills are available to classes other than thieves to aid with mass combat, mesmer and engineer for example. Stealth from combo fields would be removed, no other classes would have access to stealth (druid F5 and ranger pets reworked). Kind of like how necro should be the only class with access to fear (like anet told us at launch), but that's for another thread.

This is the short version, and it would go a long way to fixing a lot of other issues, including stealth.

Please go play thief or at least learn the game mechanics behind them before posting garbage like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jabronee.9465 said:

@Jabronee.9465 said:Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be
some
explanation why people choose the weaker class...

Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

You should be able to see and hear the smoke fields, right? But No no, go ahead, continue.

Ah i see. I guess other classes running around maps looking for smoke fields to count how many thieves. Great tactics brah. I have to salute you. Twice!

It's true though, there are hardly any thieves compared to necs or other classes. I mean you may get a grp like SA or other gank grps but most roaming grps dont even use thief anymore but have necros in them with pocket healers lol

Most roaming groups on your server or on other servers? NA or EU? I guess you have accounts on every servers on both NA and EU. A true dedicated fan indeed!

Good god, you must hate thieves with a passion lol. EU servers and all servers have grps like this. I guess to u wouldnt know as you're safely tucked up inside a zerg spamming #1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Ubi.4136" said:

  1. Weapon skills require a target to use (including spirit weapons and wells/shades). This prevents spamming marks/aoe's to tag stealthers and remove stealth. Traps would still put the stealther in combat and remove stealth (maybe a specific few). All skills would require line of sight to use. No more rev porting through obstacles or barrage shots over walls. This would also make walls usable for defenders, since now spamming aoe's on walls would give you "no line of sight to target", or "out of range". Siege damage would not remove stealth, except the arrow cart skill.

Only putting AOEs on your target kinda-sorta worked in GW1 because players moved slowly. It would be absolutely terrible in this game. All this to "fix" "stealth" by copying WoW's goofy slow-moving perma-stealth gameplay. :confused:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ASP.8093 said:

@"Ubi.4136" said:
  1. Weapon skills require a target to use (including spirit weapons and wells/shades). This prevents spamming marks/aoe's to tag stealthers and remove stealth. Traps would still put the stealther in combat and remove stealth (maybe a specific few). All skills would require line of sight to use. No more rev porting through obstacles or barrage shots over walls. This would also make walls usable for defenders, since now spamming aoe's on walls would give you "no line of sight to target", or "out of range". Siege damage would not remove stealth, except the arrow cart skill.

Only putting AOEs on your target kinda-sorta worked in GW1 because players moved slowly. It would be absolutely terrible in this game. All this to "fix" "stealth" by copying WoW's goofy slow-moving perma-stealth gameplay. :confused:

The problem is the devs designed wvw after Dark Age of Camelot, and got almost all of it wrong during implementation. I never played WoW, but the perma portion of stealth isn't the problem. But, in order to fix stealth in ways it needs to be fixed, to balance it, lots of other things will have to change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As well as stun brakes spame. Its ok for the thf class to have these things but they need to be forced to build for them giving up every thing to have them like other classes. If your still doing a 9k back stab or doing 2k condi ticks and still have these effects there is something broken about the build / class.

Erm no, thief doesn't hit 9k backstab. A standard thief build hits backstab for somewhere around 4k-5k. If you go full glass you will hit for around 7-7.5k.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Heibi.4251" said:Yep my stealth/thief adjustments that I have always said need to be implemented are:

  1. When stealhted you must move at walk speed in order to be "stealthy".
  2. No spiking from stealth.
  3. No stealthing while in combat. Blinding is one thing but going invis is completely different.
  4. Longer cooldowns on stealth - much longer.
  5. Once revealed you stay revealed until timer is gone - i.e. Target Painters - no traiting to insta-re-stealth and ignore certain mechanics.
  6. Portal should be changed to thief only - period. The current meta is completely unbalanced. Also the timing needs to be adjusted. It should be just like the mesmer portal timing. Right now a thief can drop the portal and run away for almost a minute then port back and drop another immediately.
  7. While in keeps that have just flipped you cannot stealth. Currently you can stealth and your dot vanishes and you are NOT MARKED. And with the ridiculous stealth stacking you can stay stealthed for a very long time - nearly permanent(with tiny visible windows.)

+1000 I'd be happy to see even half of these changes being applied

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Yasai.3549 said:The only reason I've ever hated Thief in WvW is ever since they gave them Shadow Portal.

Nothing is more infuriating than a DE is endlessly Stealthed in inner keep only to open a free path into the keep minutes later for a easy cap without defenders even realising they were around.

Even if yu realise there is a DE in the keep, they are extremely difficult to catch because of all their stealth applications and 2 charges of revealed removal.

Yu can literally blanket the entire inner with Reveal skills and not find the DE.

This is why these days it's pretty much a MUST to slot and activate Radar upon capping a Keep, just for the primary reason of outting pest like DEs still hiding.

And doing so prevents other useful anti siege tactics to be slotted in its place.

Warclaw Sniff should be upgradable to detect stealthed players imo and another upgrade to reveal them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Strider.7849" said:I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

and this is why thief either needs to get nerfed into the ground or stealth being removed from the game.

Thankfully, you are not a developer cause many people paid good money for access to classes with stealth. For 5 years on this board all I have ever seen you post about is how you hate stealth. But your kind of complaints has already essentially killed Mesmer outside of PvE so you gonna help me get my refunds?

That said:

I have long said that
to be used for
scouting
and
starting an attack
only. Once that thief or Mesmer is in the fight, they should either have to finish it or get far enough away to re-engage stealth that an easy follow up attack is not viable. I can think of only 2 skills where exceptions should be made,
and
and only because the entire point of those 2 skills are combat repositioning, are slow, require hits and have drawbacks, as well as a high cooldown (for weapon skills).

And it looking like 'predator cloak' to enemies when you are too close (200-250 units,
maybe
300) would also help. Yeah, it would break targeting, but not invalidate all cleave and AoE skill use.

Stealth should be SNEAKY, not a mid-melee attack skill.

It was a big disappointment when I discovered that thieves can remain permanently stealthed outside combat, while being detected by foes in close proximity.I would rather have ESO stealth system and replace GW2 Thief invisibility by a 1s-1.5s blur (1.5s-2s traited)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's be serious: Teef is balanced since the damage nerf patch.

  • it can not oneshot any semi competitive play oriented build anymore
  • it is still too squishy to have some noteworthy fight presence, so any form of counterpressue will still force it into defense

If you fight a thief these days you have a lot more time to react and you can make a lot more mistakes until the thief can punish you and gain the upper hand for the kill. Hell I do often taunt thief encounters and do a dogde jump (wasting a dodge) for no reason while it sneaks around me because its opening burst is most likely not a threat anymore.

Thief is now like it should have always been: when built for mobility (most roaming builds), it deals very low damage. When built for damage (pve builds), it has very low mobility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...