What is the real list of OPness right now?

[Crab Fear.1624]

1. Revs, Holos
2. (something)
3. (something)

These top 3 need to be brought down to 4, and 4-9 need to be brought up to 4.

Remember as damage goes up, sustain goes down and vice versa.

I would say make your list and put it here, but do you booboo.

I mention the #2, and #3 because these are probably the loudest in complaints about the #1.

They want to be #1, but I don't want them to be number one.

They should be brought down as well.

I picked the number 1s based on the current pvp page, but I have my own #2, #3 that I feel will definitely become the next problem if these are brought down.

[Shiyo.3578]

1) Renegade, condi rev, power rev. Holosmith2) Any Ranger build3) Any Thief build including 0 traits spent

[mistsim.2748]

just glint/malyx. rest is more or less fine. mesmers need help.

[Virdo.1540]

top one are definitely tempests and holos

revs & mesmers are fine (except chrono)

[Black Storm.6974]

Maybe Engineer (both power and condition), Deadye, Tempest, Revenant (the problem are the conditions that still “need” to be reduced for everyone), other professions with their condition builds.

There is a general problem with conditions. There are a lot of condition builds that can make incredibly high burst damage, but also several condition builds with way too high sustained damage (often these have high defence too).Condition damage “needs” to be reduced at least as much as power damage was reduced. Let’s start balancing singular professions after building a “fair” base.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Last is Warrior. Thats for sure.

[dronte.3416]

Reaper is also high on my list.

And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

[Jekkt.6045]

1. power rev damage. it's too high. compare any damage build to this and it's apparent how strong it is.

2. holo damage/sustain. pick one anet. is holo a bruiser? nerf the damage. is holo a dps? nerf the sustain. nades f skill hitting up to 10k is not balanced.

3. condi herald sustain. if damage of other builds is brought down i feel like they should nerf the healing from resistance.

4. condi thief. something that people don't seem to talk about much. they nerfed s/d condi because the damage was too fast, yet p/d bursts even harder, granted its defense is weaker because it relies so much on stealth and range.

5. lightning aura on hit stun. make it a daze or shorten the duration. res glyph should have a more visible animation.

6. renegade spirits. i don't think it's broken by any means, just terrible design and the whole elite spec should get reworked because of how boring and lazy it is.

7. lich form. didn't we learn from rampage?

i feel like balance has reached a point where only nerfs are not enough anymore so i'll add what i think should get buffed.

thief: buff sword auto attack. it's bad.

mesmer: make core mesmer the dps spec and buff it without turning it into a stupid stealth oneshot build. mirage needs a rework and chrono support should be heavily buffed because it's laughable and can't even compete with support druid which speaks volumes about how bad it is.

warrior: traits are a mess and half the weapons too. discipline is always mandatory because of weapon swap trait and burst mastery.arms is absolute garbage.hammer gm trait in strength should really not be there. ever since you shuffled it around hammer has been unplayable. put it into tactics and make it a master trait.longbow needs buffs, f1 needs longer burning or more stacks, 3 could use a damage increase or apply burning on hit.berserker is way too gimmicky. give back burst skills for berserker with max lvl2 burst.spellbreaker should get a buff for dagger f1 damage with a more obvious animation. give it some yellow shiny stuff.

ele: air is dead and the only way to deal even some amount of damage is through burning. fresh air and lightning rod were never any good yet both were nerfed into nothingness. i told you years ago fresh air procs and scepter air 2 should have a delay with an obvious animation, yet all you did was nerf the damage because it was easy.staff is garbage. too slow, half the skills are bad. core ele is unplayable because it deals no damage and has no survivability. trait wise ele is probably one of the worst designed classes.

necro: scourge. make it a support spec if you don't want it to be condi necro 2.0

engi: scrapper. it needs at least some damage if you want it to be useful. it can't kill anything, it's just somewhat tanky, probably less than holo.. you could also try to make core engi the go to condi engi spec so holo can be dps, scrapper bruiser and core condi.

ranger: druid healing is sad. you could double the numbers and i'm not sure if it would be enough.

revenant: can you finally buff ventari? the healing is low and the range around the tablet is too small.

[Shiyo.3578]

A support cannot be overpowered when there are only two of them to pick from(FB and tempest). A support cannot be overpowered because they cannot solo carry themselves through ranks, and aren't even powerful enough to duo queue carry through ranks.

Please do not put tempest in this top3 list.

[Tayga.3192]

@Shiyo.3578 said:A support cannot be overpoweredThey sure can be

when there are only two of them to pick from(FB and tempest).That means those two are pretty strong compared to tactics warrior, druid etc

[Revolution.5409]

There are professions that have adapted better to the new Meta after the patches and others that have become garbage.Anet has made major changes to weapons and traits and their use has changed a lot in pvp, the warrior's hammer is an example.The problem is not the professions that make up the current Meta, the problem is the missing updates to make the other professions viable and the damage that has been lowered too much, even if Holo and Herald were nerfed, warrior and other specializations will remain garbage in every chance, useless to ruin other professions.

[viquing.8254]

What is the real list of OPness right now : mesmers bots.And thanks to them we can say that even with nerfs, mesmers are still played (20% player, 80% bots.).

[Black Storm.6974]

@dronte.3416 said:Reaper is also high on my list.

And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

Reaper is quite bad right now, you can realise it as soon as you fight against any competent team instead of “PvP beginners”.

Surviving with it is very difficult, it has low damage and/or low survivability compared to the things already mentioned here.When focused in team fight, if you don’t have competent support and a good team with you, you can be taken from 100% HP and 100% LF to death in about 4 seconds, while under the effect of CCs.

Its damage is not reliable. It is good while in Reaper Shroud, but if the enemy avoid it (and it is very simple with the powerful defences or mobility that other professions have access to) you find yourself with low damage weapons and bad defence for at least 10 seconds (usually more than enough to take down a Reaper).

Reaper is also a lot inferior to several things mentioned in this thread if fighting 1vs1.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@dronte.3416 said:Reaper is also high on my list.

And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

Reaper is quite bad right now, you realise it as soon as you fight against any competent team instead of “PvP beginners”.Surviving with it is very difficult, it has low damage and/or low survivability compared to things already mentioned here.

For sure thsts why necro/specs are higher in numbers than any class in wvw and only somewhat matched by thiefs and now revs in pvp, cuz their weak lol.

[Black Storm.6974]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@dronte.3416 said:Reaper is also high on my list.

And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

Reaper is quite bad right now, you realise it as soon as you fight against any competent team instead of “PvP beginners”.Surviving with it is very difficult, it has low damage and/or low survivability compared to things already mentioned here.

For sure thsts why necro/specs are higher in numbers than any class in wvw and only somewhat matched by thiefs and now revs in pvp, cuz their weak lol.

I wonder how someone could not notice “something so obvious” (what I mentioned in my post). Probably many people in Silver and Bronze division tend to see most things as OP when played by “decent players”, it is also natural, everyone needs time to learn and there is a lot to learn to become good in PvP.

PvP is full of things that can easily beat a Reaper, most professions can.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@dronte.3416 said:Reaper is also high on my list.

And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

Reaper is quite bad right now, you realise it as soon as you fight against any competent team instead of “PvP beginners”.Surviving with it is very difficult, it has low damage and/or low survivability compared to things already mentioned here.

For sure thsts why necro/specs are higher in numbers than any class in wvw and only somewhat matched by thiefs and now revs in pvp, cuz their weak lol.

I wonder how someone could not notice “something so obvious” (what I mentioned in my post). Probably many people in Silver and Bronze division tend to see most things as OP when played by “decent players”, it is also natural, everyone needs time to learn and there is a lot to learn to become good in PvP.

PvP is full of things that can easily beat a Reaper, most professions can.

Still seen more than most classes for reasons lol whether u want to admit or not players in this game seem to flock the most to classes that fit a certain criteria to put it nicely lol.

[Black Storm.6974]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@dronte.3416 said:Reaper is also high on my list.

And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

Reaper is quite bad right now, you realise it as soon as you fight against any competent team instead of “PvP beginners”.Surviving with it is very difficult, it has low damage and/or low survivability compared to things already mentioned here.

For sure thsts why necro/specs are higher in numbers than any class in wvw and only somewhat matched by thiefs and now revs in pvp, cuz their weak lol.

I wonder how someone could not notice “something so obvious” (what I mentioned in my post). Probably many people in Silver and Bronze division tend to see most things as OP when played by “decent players”, it is also natural, everyone needs time to learn and there is a lot to learn to become good in PvP.

PvP is full of things that can easily beat a Reaper, most professions can.

Still seen more than most classes for reasons lol

PvE has a lot of Reapers too, it is certainly not because it performs better than most professions (it does not).

Reaper is something that many people enjoy playing. Effectiveness is only one of the many things people can consider when choosing what to play. Necromancer was one of the most played professions in PvE even when most groups was refusing to play with them, even after years of exclusion.

It is also somewhat easier for beginners to start with Reaper.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think they should tweak damage again before messing with professions. its clearly too low. leave autos alone, reduce # 2 cds and buff damage a bit on them.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@dronte.3416 said:Reaper is also high on my list.

And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

Reaper is quite bad right now, you realise it as soon as you fight against any competent team instead of “PvP beginners”.Surviving with it is very difficult, it has low damage and/or low survivability compared to things already mentioned here.

For sure thsts why necro/specs are higher in numbers than any class in wvw and only somewhat matched by thiefs and now revs in pvp, cuz their weak lol.

I wonder how someone could not notice “something so obvious” (what I mentioned in my post). Probably many people in Silver and Bronze division tend to see most things as OP when played by “decent players”, it is also natural, everyone needs time to learn and there is a lot to learn to become good in PvP.

PvP is full of things that can easily beat a Reaper, most professions can.

Still seen more than most classes for reasons lol

PvE has a lot of Reapers too, it is certainly not because it performs better than most professions (it does not).

Reaper is something that many people enjoy playing. Effectiveness is only one of the many things people can consider when choosing what to play. Necromancer was one of the most played professions in PvE even when most groups was refusing to play with them, even after years of exclusion.

It is also somewhat easier for beginners to start with Reaper.

people play reaper in pve because they are fucking bad and are content with doing all content by going shroud and holding autoattack.necros are BY FAR the worst players, this entire class is design in a way to not teach the person playing it anything.

[Leonidrex.5649]

for me top would be.1 Rev of any kind is eithera Broken orb degenerate and too strong.2 Holo and necroa for holo alchemy needs to be finally properly nerfed, compensate core engi and scrapper, holo shouldnt run with fucking 15-25 might all day.b necro, is a shitty design only rivaled by thiefs retarded ini system, how the heck someone thought that entire class design would be having massive HP pool is a good idea i dont know, reduce their shroud gain by ~20% from ALL sources, nerf things that were forgotten, and give them a bone like additional block as F2 but out of shroud only. Heck they could give them F2 and F3. F2 blocks and gives defence, F3 deals damage and buffs damage outpot, both cost some shroud and both go on cd when one is used, mb this would be a good way to buff them in pve.3 Ranger, Tempest, FBthose 3 are slightly above the rest, and its hard to say if they need to be touched all that much, or mb other things should be moved to their level.4 Warrior and mesmer of any kind sucks, and honestly for the sake of the game and its playerbase I deeply hope that other classes will not be brought down to their shitty level.warrior needs dmg on CC back, AND something else on top, I dont know what It could be, maybe some more damage. but their evade uptimes are very high still...Mesmer needs couple of things, one and very important thing, is for thief to not fuck it in the ass by mere existance, two for the buggs to be fixed ( sword ambush, sword 3, axe 3 ) and honestly couple of proper qol changes like phantasms turning into clones faster could make it decent.Oh or mb make clones/phantasms stop generate things for other classes, giving other classes pulsing might, heals, lifesteal, adrenaline and all that shit is stupid.

And honorable mention, thief. Mandatory 1 thief in every team dunno what can be done, nerfing it is not the way honestly, if anything this game needs another spec that can contest thief in its role, PROPERLY

[Aktium.9506]

1. Holo
2. Rev
3. Ranger
4. Guardian
5. Necro
6. Thief
7. Ele
8. Mesmer
9. Warrior

@Leonidrex.5649 said:warrior needs dmg on CC backIt has plenty of those. That's not what's holding Warr back.

AND something else on top, I dont know what It could be

And honorable mention, thief. Mandatory 1 thief in every team dunno what can be done, nerfing it is not the way honestly, if anything this game needs another spec that can contest thief in its role, PROPERLYIf only there was a way to combine these and fix two problems in one go... ?

[Bazsi.2734]

@Shiyo.3578 said:A support cannot be overpowered when there are only two of them to pick from(FB and tempest). A support cannot be overpowered because they cannot solo carry themselves through ranks, and aren't even powerful enough to duo queue carry through ranks.

Please do not put tempest in this top3 list.

1. Tempest
2. Weaver
3. Core ele
4. Rest is trash, please nerf the above.

[Aktium.9506]

@Shiyo.3578 said:A support cannot be overpowered when there are only two of them to pick fromWhere was this sentiment when Blood Sage Scourge ran rampant?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Aktium.9506 said:

1. Holo
2. Rev
3. Ranger
4. Guardian
5. Necro
6. Thief
7. Ele
8. Mesmer
9. Warrior

@Leonidrex.5649 said:warrior needs dmg on CC backIt has plenty of those. That's not what's holding Warr back.

AND something else on top, I dont know what It could be

And honorable mention, thief. Mandatory 1 thief in every team dunno what can be done, nerfing it is not the way honestly, if anything this game needs another spec that can contest thief in its role, PROPERLYIf only there was a way to combine these and fix two problems in one go... ?

Regarding war damage is definitely part of whats holding it back. By design and how integrated the need for hard cc for a war to effectively burst someone having zero damage on cc hit wars overall damage and burst significantly compared to other classes. If the devs compensated wars non cc skills or skills that were commonly used as part of their burst with more damage then maybe things would be different. As it is now as predictable and counter playable as war bursts are, even if ur successful in getting the full burst rotation off most classes but glass ones will shrug off the damage due to the loss of damage on cc. Thst is if they simply don't pop stab or a stun break lolWar has a few well known bursts that are predictable and easy to counter yet if wars successful in getting the bursts off in most cases it would have to successfully land those bursts multiple times in a fight to get a player down as that's their only way to hope to do enough damage in a time frame that the opponents heal and sustain skills arnt comming off cd's. Wars in a bad spot cuz ud have to face a already almost dead opponent or get multiple burst attempts off and the opponent would have to be bronze level to fall for multiple war bursts.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:

1. Holo
2. Rev
3. Ranger
4. Guardian
5. Necro
6. Thief
7. Ele
8. Mesmer
9. Warrior

@Leonidrex.5649 said:warrior needs dmg on CC backIt has plenty of those. That's not what's holding Warr back.

AND something else on top, I dont know what It could be

And honorable mention, thief. Mandatory 1 thief in every team dunno what can be done, nerfing it is not the way honestly, if anything this game needs another spec that can contest thief in its role, PROPERLYIf only there was a way to combine these and fix two problems in one go... ?

Regarding war damage is definitely part of whats holding it back. By design and how integrated the need for hard cc for a war to effectively burst someone having zero damage on cc hit wars overall damage and burst significantly compared to other classes. If the devs compensated wars non cc skills or skills that were commonly used as part of their burst with more damage then maybe things would be different. As it is now as predictable and counter playable as war bursts are, even if ur successful in getting the full burst rotation off most classes but glass ones will shrug off the damage due to the loss of damage on cc. Thst is if they simply don't pop stab or a stun break lol

lack of damage and other classes being broken is holding warrior back.by nerfing shit up the list and adding SOME damage to CC would fix most warrior issues.Main problem off warrior is and always will be, its fair.