The biggest barrier to raids

[Vilin.8056]

@Obtena.7952 said:It's not hard to do ... no one should need to be told if you don't like a game after 7 years it's worked this way, that's a choice you make to play it despite the things you don't like about it ... but here we are having people think the game caters to how they want it to work /shrug. Obviously the value you get from playing outweighs the things you dislike if you are still here ... or you are just sensationalizing how 'bad' things are to compel change.

Not sure what you're trying to get at, a player made a comment about the state of getting player participation in a WvW squad compare to raid, and I responded it can still just as difficult finding structured players and why. Did I made a comment on how he should choose which way should he approach the game?

All communities in old MMO's dwindle after some time (I won't argue that it's happening in the game because it doesn't really matter to my point) so that goes without saying. That doesn't change the truth of what I said though ... if you don't want to play a certain way that you see other people playing, the answer to fix that is social networking ... nothing Anet is going to do is going to make teams happen for you or others that think in a similar way. If you can't find enough people to team with that don't want to play like you, that says more about you than it does the game. MMO isn't a catering service.More like contradicting it, this forum is one of the biggest social networking of the entire game, did it convinced anyone on either side, instead of spewing more toxicity?

So the biggest barrier to raids? People not making the social connections they need that has been a fundamental part of every MMO ever. That goes for the same issue with people QQIng about karma trains in WvW. If the social group to play iwth likeminded people just isn't big enough, which make you exceptional, that isn't a reason for Anet to adjust the game to change it.Or people spending too much time trying to aquire recognitions by berating players, communities, and contents with meaningless debate tactics rather than playing the game.

[Obtena.7952]

@Vilin.8056 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It's not hard to do ... no one should need to be told if you don't like a game after 7 years it's worked this way, that's a choice you make to play it despite the things you don't like about it ... but here we are having people think the game caters to how they want it to work /shrug. Obviously the value you get from playing outweighs the things you dislike if you are still here ... or you are just sensationalizing how 'bad' things are to compel change.

Not sure what you're trying to get at, a player made a comment about the state of getting player participation in a WvW squad compare to raid, and I responded it can still just as difficult finding structured players and why. Did I made a comment on how he should choose which way should he approach the game?

You don't see how your comment is related to what I'm saying? OK .. no wonder you have problems. I mean, I did explain how social network is related to how people play the game successfully ... and it should be pretty clear to people that play MMO's. Not sure the part you aren't getting.

[Vilin.8056]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Vilin.8056 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It's not hard to do ... no one should need to be told if you don't like a game after 7 years it's worked this way, that's a choice you make to play it despite the things you don't like about it ... but here we are having people think the game caters to how they want it to work /shrug. Obviously the value you get from playing outweighs the things you dislike if you are still here ... or you are just sensationalizing how 'bad' things are to compel change.

Not sure what you're trying to get at, a player made a comment about the state of getting player participation in a WvW squad compare to raid, and I responded it can still just as difficult finding structured players and why. Did I made a comment on how he should choose which way should he approach the game?

You don't see how that's related? OK .. no wonder you have problems. I mean, I did explain how they are related so ... ?

Feel free to keep trolling, I'll simply stop here.

As said on another thread, and threads before it, your method never convinced anyone.

[Obtena.7952]

@Vilin.8056 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Vilin.8056 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It's not hard to do ... no one should need to be told if you don't like a game after 7 years it's worked this way, that's a choice you make to play it despite the things you don't like about it ... but here we are having people think the game caters to how they want it to work /shrug. Obviously the value you get from playing outweighs the things you dislike if you are still here ... or you are just sensationalizing how 'bad' things are to compel change.

Not sure what you're trying to get at, a player made a comment about the state of getting player participation in a WvW squad compare to raid, and I responded it can still just as difficult finding structured players and why. Did I made a comment on how he should choose which way should he approach the game?

You don't see how that's related? OK .. no wonder you have problems. I mean, I did explain how they are related so ... ?

Feel free to keep trolling, I'll simply stop here.

As said, your method never convinced anyone.

I'm not here to convince you ... there isn't any impact on me if you decide to listen or not ... if you want to continue to have problems doing things you like to do in GW2, that's a choice you make, not an aspect of the game Anet needs to fix for you. Maybe for some other people who aren't so narrowminded with an axe to grind, the suggestion to expand their social network to solve their problems is useful. There isn't actually any reason for you to be so hostile to me for suggesting such a thing.

[A R W E N.6895]

2 weeks later from my post I can say that nothing has changed. I still hit the benchmarks on multiple class, but guess what, getting 10 people for raids is still the hardest thing there is.

Its hot outside, I'm going in my pool

[maddoctor.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So the biggest barrier to raids? People not making the social connections they need that has been a fundamental part of every MMO ever.

Social connections are essential in most other MMOs yes, but in Guild Wars 2 they aren't as important because the vast majority of the game is playable on your own, without ever talking to or interacting with anyone. In most cases Guilds are just chat rooms.

OK ... but we are talking about team content here so ... ?

Which changes what I said in what way? Isn't it interesting how content that gets so little attention, like WVW, allows guilds to field 10, 20 or 30 players, while the content that gets the most attention (PVE) has very very few players of the same guild playing together. When was the last time you finished -any- meta event with 9 other members of your own guild in the same squad? With the exception of specialized guilds (WVW guilds, Raid guilds, PVP guilds) and the occasional guild mission, guilds aren't really encouraged to play together. Those that make the connections and join the appropriate guilds will find success, others will simply complain, but it doesn't have to be like this.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So the biggest barrier to raids? People not making the social connections they need that has been a fundamental part of every MMO ever.

Social connections are essential in most other MMOs yes, but in Guild Wars 2 they aren't as important because the vast majority of the game is playable on your own, without ever talking to or interacting with anyone. In most cases Guilds are just chat rooms.

OK ... but we are talking about team content here so ... ?

Which changes what I said in what way?

It doesn't ... We are talking about team content. Your statement was related to solo content. You didn't make the connection between your statement and the topic, I asked you to clarify. I still don't see it.

@maddoctor.2738 said:Isn't it interesting how content that gets so little attention, like WVW, allows guilds to field 10, 20 or 30 players, while the content that gets the most attention (PVE) has very very few players of the same guild playing together.

I don't think it's that interesting ... seems to me that the resources and efforts any game developer will put to a game has nothing to do with any specific parameter you want to cherry pick ... likely that where they focus their time is based on what makes them revenue. Not sure how that's related to the topic though, so let's make sure we stick with it shall we?

OP is saying barriers to raiding is finding people ... but people aren't that hard to find to do things with, so the answer here is social networking.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Vilin.8056 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Vilin.8056 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:So the real problem with Raids is that guilds aren't working as they should be. If your guild can't get 10 players together at a given time then it's time to start recruiting, or consider a different guild.

and at the same time, guilds in the dead game mode wvw don't struggle to get 10, 20, 30 people together. Go figure.

Maybe anet should stop the raid experiment.WvW guilds equally struggle to find over 10 structured players. Most 20+ squad runs consist a majority of Zergs that's incapable of sticking with tag in skirmishes.Some 30+ squad even turn to flee mode at the sight of 5-6 Roamer guild parties.

Many skilled WvW players have left this game due to disappointment.

well, my wvw guild was earlier this year and we have a solid 20 player core, doing well so far.A 'friend' guild isn't much older and does equally well.A very old guild I am in, doesn't care about organizing stuff. Someone just asks 'ebg?' and 5-10 are there.Which is called Zerging or Karma Train, that's what WvW has turned into.If you simply like the mindless grinding for track progress, all good, for the most hardcore WvW players this is just another form of tasteless PvE.

20-25 is not zerging. Neither is 5-10.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:So the real problem with Raids is that guilds aren't working as they should be. If your guild can't get 10 players together at a given time then it's time to start recruiting, or consider a different guild.

and at the same time, guilds in the dead game mode wvw don't struggle to get 10, 20, 30 people together. Go figure.

Maybe anet should stop the raid experiment.

Good then they can make 1, 2 or 3 full raid squads. Why aren't they doing it and are complaining about pugs on the forums?

I am not complaining, others do. The only thing I am 'invested in' when it comes to raids was ANETS monumental kitten decision to make the shiny legendary armor raid only.

Just face it: most people do not care about raids. Time to stop pretending and to stop flogging the dead horse.

[Vilin.8056]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Vilin.8056 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Vilin.8056 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:So the real problem with Raids is that guilds aren't working as they should be. If your guild can't get 10 players together at a given time then it's time to start recruiting, or consider a different guild.

and at the same time, guilds in the dead game mode wvw don't struggle to get 10, 20, 30 people together. Go figure.

Maybe anet should stop the raid experiment.WvW guilds equally struggle to find over 10 structured players. Most 20+ squad runs consist a majority of Zergs that's incapable of sticking with tag in skirmishes.Some 30+ squad even turn to flee mode at the sight of 5-6 Roamer guild parties.

Many skilled WvW players have left this game due to disappointment.

well, my wvw guild was earlier this year and we have a solid 20 player core, doing well so far.A 'friend' guild isn't much older and does equally well.A very old guild I am in, doesn't care about organizing stuff. Someone just asks 'ebg?' and 5-10 are there.Which is called Zerging or Karma Train, that's what WvW has turned into.If you simply like the mindless grinding for track progress, all good, for the most hardcore WvW players this is just another form of tasteless PvE.

20-25 is not zerging. Neither is 5-10.Doesn't matter if you're running 5-10 or 20-25.Feel free to ask in your server team chat the definition of Zerging in WvW if you don't believe me.

On a side note, most player don't care about WvW either, besides farming the Gift of Battle and the Legendary ring. If you really want to look into a grand scale of perspective.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:It doesn't ... We are talking about team content. Your statement was related to solo content. You didn't make the connection between your statement and the topic, I asked you to clarify. I still don't see it.

I already did make the connection, but let me repeat it: guilds in this game being chat rooms therefore not used to form teams, which is why the OP can't find players to play with. If their guild is in such a state they can't find 9 other players to play with, then that's not a problem of the content, but the guild.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Isn't it interesting how content that gets so little attention, like WVW, allows guilds to field 10, 20 or 30 players, while the content that gets the most attention (PVE) has very very few players of the same guild playing together.

I don't think it's that interesting ... seems to me that the resources and efforts any game developer will put to a game has nothing to do with any specific parameter you want to cherry pick ... likely that where they focus their time is based on what makes them revenue. Not sure how that's related to the topic though, so let's make sure we stick with it shall we?

Yes follow your advice and stick to the topic, what does revenue have to do with anything? The interesting part is that Guilds focusing on dead content (not my words) like WVW or even Raids can find 10 players to play their content just fine, this isn't disputed I hope. Meanwhile the content that gets all the attention has this "barrier" as the OP called it, if you remember topic. And if you haven't noticed that's wasn't even my argument, but you didn't find it important to call it off topic when it was first mentioned. Another interesting point to note.

OP is saying barriers to raiding is finding people ... but people aren't that hard to find to do things with, so the answer here is social networking.

The answer here is to have more social guilds and/or better ways to promote and find such guilds in game. If the OP can't find people then they either need to start recruiting or find a better guild that can get the people. There are no tools in game to search for guilds and find what you are looking for, only recruitment messages. And since there is barely anything to do with your guild, other than chat, this just makes the problem worse.

[panzerdragon.8791]

I'd say the biggest barriers to raids are :

-class competency-classroom work on each encounter ( videos and reading )-equally competent team-builds-lfg waiting times

Most of the above can be worked on . LFG times vary .

[A R W E N.6895]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It doesn't ... We are talking about team content. Your statement was related to solo content. You didn't make the connection between your statement and the topic, I asked you to clarify. I still don't see it.

I already did make the connection, but let me repeat it: guilds in this game being chat rooms therefore not used to form teams, which is why the OP can't find players to play with. If their guild is in such a state they can't find 9 other players to play with, then that's not a problem of the content, but the guild.

@maddoctor.2738 said:Isn't it interesting how content that gets so little attention, like WVW, allows guilds to field 10, 20 or 30 players, while the content that gets the most attention (PVE) has very very few players of the same guild playing together.

I don't think it's that interesting ... seems to me that the resources and efforts any game developer will put to a game has nothing to do with any specific parameter you want to cherry pick ... likely that where they focus their time is based on what makes them revenue. Not sure how that's related to the topic though, so let's make sure we stick with it shall we?

Yes follow your advice and stick to the topic, what does revenue have to do with anything? The interesting part is that Guilds focusing on dead content (not my words) like WVW or even Raids can find 10 players to play their content just fine, this isn't disputed I hope. Meanwhile the content that gets all the attention has this "barrier" as the OP called it, if you remember topic. And if you haven't noticed that's wasn't even my argument, but you didn't find it important to call it off topic when it was first mentioned. Another interesting point to note.

OP is saying barriers to raiding is finding people ... but people aren't that hard to find to do things with, so the answer here is social networking.

The answer here is to have more social guilds and/or better ways to promote and find such guilds in game. If the OP can't find people then they either need to start recruiting or find a better guild that can get the people. There are no tools in game to search for guilds and find what you are looking for, only recruitment messages. And since there is barely anything to do with your guild, other than chat, this just makes the problem worse.

Here we go! Quote : "There are no tools in game to search for guilds and find what you are looking for, only recruitment messages. And since there is barely anything to do with your guild, other than chat, this just makes the problem worse. "

We are getting somewhere now!

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It doesn't ... We are talking about team content. Your statement was related to solo content. You didn't make the connection between your statement and the topic, I asked you to clarify. I still don't see it.

I already did make the connection, but let me repeat it: guilds in this game being chat rooms therefore not used to form teams, which is why the OP can't find players to play with. If their guild is in such a state they can't find 9 other players to play with, then that's not a problem of the content, but the guild.

There are actually lots of guilds that are dedicated to raiding and there are ways to find them, so your claim that they are just chat rooms because GW2 is mostly solo content doesn't make sense. In addition, the game enables multi-guild membership, so no, it's not a reason the OP can't find players at all. Even if the tools ingame aren't that good, that's a self imposed restriction; there are many other places, including these forums, to find these guilds. I mean, the OP is ALREADY on here, so 'lack of good ingame tools' shouldn't be a problem for him ... it's just an excuse.

Yes, it would be nice to have a better guild recruiting function ingame ... but no, it's not a barrier to finding a guild, just like it's not a barrier to find any other specialized guild you want to join.

[A R W E N.6895]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It doesn't ... We are talking about team content. Your statement was related to solo content. You didn't make the connection between your statement and the topic, I asked you to clarify. I still don't see it.

I already did make the connection, but let me repeat it: guilds in this game being chat rooms therefore not used to form teams, which is why the OP can't find players to play with. If their guild is in such a state they can't find 9 other players to play with, then that's not a problem of the content, but the guild.

There are actually lots of guilds that are dedicated to raiding and there are ways to find them, so your claim that they are just chat rooms because GW2 is mostly solo content doesn't make sense. In addition, the game enables multi-guild membership, so no, it's not a reason the OP can't find players at all. Even if the tools ingame aren't that good, that's a self imposed restriction; there are many other places, including these forums, to find these guilds. I mean, the OP is ALREADY on here, so 'lack of good ingame tools' shouldn't be a problem for him ... it's just an excuse.

Yes, it would be nice to have a better guild recruiting function ingame ... but no, it's not a barrier to finding a guild, just like it's not a barrier to find any other specialized guild you want to join.

Who said I couldn't find players to raid with. I'm simply stating what I find to be true regarding the barriers to raid.

Seems like I need to repeat myself yet again. The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people. I mean, you need to be blind to not see that.

[Obtena.7952]

@A R W E N.6895 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It doesn't ... We are talking about team content. Your statement was related to solo content. You didn't make the connection between your statement and the topic, I asked you to clarify. I still don't see it.

I already did make the connection, but let me repeat it: guilds in this game being chat rooms therefore not used to form teams, which is why the OP can't find players to play with. If their guild is in such a state they can't find 9 other players to play with, then that's not a problem of the content, but the guild.

There are actually lots of guilds that are dedicated to raiding and there are ways to find them, so your claim that they are just chat rooms because GW2 is mostly solo content doesn't make sense. In addition, the game enables multi-guild membership, so no, it's not a reason the OP can't find players at all. Even if the tools ingame aren't that good, that's a self imposed restriction; there are many other places, including these forums, to find these guilds. I mean, the OP is ALREADY on here, so 'lack of good ingame tools' shouldn't be a problem for him ... it's just an excuse.

Yes, it would be nice to have a better guild recruiting function ingame ... but no, it's not a barrier to finding a guild, just like it's not a barrier to find any other specialized guild you want to join.

Who said I couldn't find players to raid with. I'm simply stating what I find to be true regarding the barriers to raid.

Seems like I need to repeat myself yet again. The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people. I mean, you need to be blind to not see that.

Yes, i read that ... but I disagree that finding 10 people to raid with is the biggest barrier because the population of raiders in this game isn't on the order of 10's or 100's of people ... and those people that do raid are not 'scattered' all over the place making themselves hidden... they want to raid, so they know where to go and hang out to be available for raiding. Repeating yourself doesn't make what you said more true. If finding 10 people to raid with is your biggest barrier, you're doing something extraordinary that you can likely fix.

[maddoctor.2738]

@A R W E N.6895 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:It doesn't ... We are talking about team content. Your statement was related to solo content. You didn't make the connection between your statement and the topic, I asked you to clarify. I still don't see it.

I already did make the connection, but let me repeat it: guilds in this game being chat rooms therefore not used to form teams, which is why the OP can't find players to play with. If their guild is in such a state they can't find 9 other players to play with, then that's not a problem of the content, but the guild.

@maddoctor.2738 said:Isn't it interesting how content that gets so little attention, like WVW, allows guilds to field 10, 20 or 30 players, while the content that gets the most attention (PVE) has very very few players of the same guild playing together.

I don't think it's that interesting ... seems to me that the resources and efforts any game developer will put to a game has nothing to do with any specific parameter you want to cherry pick ... likely that where they focus their time is based on what makes them revenue. Not sure how that's related to the topic though, so let's make sure we stick with it shall we?

Yes follow your advice and stick to the topic, what does revenue have to do with anything? The interesting part is that Guilds focusing on dead content (not my words) like WVW or even Raids can find 10 players to play their content just fine, this isn't disputed I hope. Meanwhile the content that gets all the attention has this "barrier" as the OP called it, if you remember topic. And if you haven't noticed that's wasn't even my argument, but you didn't find it important to call it off topic when it was first mentioned. Another interesting point to note.

OP is saying barriers to raiding is finding people ... but people aren't that hard to find to do things with, so the answer here is social networking.

The answer here is to have more social guilds and/or better ways to promote and find such guilds in game. If the OP can't find people then they either need to start recruiting or find a better guild that can get the people. There are no tools in game to search for guilds and find what you are looking for, only recruitment messages. And since there is barely anything to do with your guild, other than chat, this just makes the problem worse.

Here we go! Quote : "There are no tools in game to search for guilds and find what you are looking for, only recruitment messages. And since there is barely anything to do with your guild, other than chat, this just makes the problem worse. "

We are getting somewhere now!

To be honest I've been advocating for more guild visibility inside the game for a rather long time. It's odd to me that players need to resort to out of the game interactions (discord, reddit, or even the official forums) to find a guild for any given purpose. The second problem of the game being anti-social and not having to do anything with your guild is much harder to solve.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Yes, i read that ... but I disagree that finding 10 people to raid with is the biggest barrier because the population of raiders in this game isn't on the order of 10's or 100's of people ... and those people that do raid are not 'scattered' all over the place making themselves hidden... they want to raid, so they know where to go and hang out to be available for raiding. Repeating yourself doesn't make what you said more true. If finding 10 people to raid with is your biggest barrier, you're doing something extraordinary that you can likely fix."Finding 9 raiders" is indeed not that hard. "finding 9 players i would want to play with" is a bit harder, but still doable. It's the "finding 9 raiders i would want to play with" that is a problem.(Also, see my signature)

[Obtena.7952]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Yes, i read that ... but I disagree that finding 10 people to raid with is the biggest barrier because the population of raiders in this game isn't on the order of 10's or 100's of people ... and those people that do raid are not 'scattered' all over the place making themselves hidden... they want to raid, so they know where to go and hang out to be available for raiding. Repeating yourself doesn't make what you said more true. If finding 10 people to raid with is your biggest barrier, you're doing something extraordinary that you can likely fix."Finding 9 raiders" is indeed not that hard. "finding 9 players i would want to play with" is a bit harder, but still doable. It's the "finding 9 raiders i would want to play with" that is a problem.(Also, see my signature)

Sure ... the more restrictions you apply, the harder it becomes. Honestly, if you can't find 9 people you want to play with ... it's not the game, it's you.

[panzerdragon.8791]

Idk man I can put up an lfg for w1-7 fc lf: exp dps benchmark gods no mortals allowed ping kp and the party fills up fast. True if you need a Chrono tank on the fly it might take some time,but oh well. The most satisfying experiences in the entire game are found in the raids. Killing dhuum took us 20 hours straight and we used random people to fill in. Biggest issue on our raids is consistency on performance. People need to be able to perform adequately the entire fight every single pull. A single mistake per fight over ten people results in alot of failure.

[Enduronex.4865]

@"A R W E N.6895" said:Its not about skills or difficulty, its about getting 10 people together. That's the biggest challenge and the biggest barrier to raid.

Peace

Well yeah if you have LFG full of "Selling raids for 500g" that's whatcha get.

[Juan.6124]

This is one of the best troll posts I saw in a long time. Keep up the good work, Arwen.

[maddoctor.2738]

@memausz.7264 said:

@"A R W E N.6895" said:Its not about skills or difficulty, its about getting 10 people together. That's the biggest challenge and the biggest barrier to raid.

Peace

Well yeah if you have LFG full of "Selling raids for 500g" that's whatcha get.

You mean if your guild has less than 10 active players this is what you get

[Astralporing.1957]

@"memausz.7264" said:Well yeah if you have LFG full of "Selling raids for 500g" that's whatcha get.That's not the cause, that's the result.

@maddoctor.2738 said:You mean if your guild has less than 10 active players this is what you getOh come on, you know well enough that you would need way more than 10 active players.Because, out of all the active players:

• half or more would not be interested in the content at all
• many of the remaining ones interested in the content would not be skilled enough to run it
• of those, many would not be interested in putting a lot of effort into learning.
• teaching the unskilled that are still interested in learning would take time

And by the time you managed to get enough players taught to finally have that 10-man group, you would realize that a few of the skilled players you started with didn't want to wait for months for the guild getting it done, and have already found themselves other statics to run raids with. So, you need to train replacements for them. And in that time some people you trained will find their own statics...Been there, done that, in more than one guild, and way more than once. It was definitely beneficial for the raiding community as a whole, but for individual people that just wanted a group of friends to raid with, not so much.

That's a very common experience for guilds that aren't specifically raid focused. And for guilds that are raid focused it can sometimes be even worse, because the players there are joining mainly to find a group for raiding, not for the guild experience, so they can practically be expected to jump ship as soon as any problems will surface (or as soon as they'll get a better offer) with absolutely nothing holding them back.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Astralporing.1957 said:Because, out of all the active players:

• half or more would not be interested in the content at all
• many of the remaining ones interested in the content would not be skilled enough to run it
• of those, many would not be interested in putting a lot of effort into learning.
• teaching the unskilled that are still interested in learning would take time

There are easy Raids and even Strike Missions to bridge the gap there is no need to start from the hardest Raids directly. Furthermore, since Strike Missions are new and more are added on a regular basis, veteran/experienced players would want to run them anyway. In some time the guild can get at least 10 players together to start their instanced content experience and eventually get into Raids.

It's not like a group of 10 players that have played together for months or even years can't go and start raiding by themselves and in that case all your listed drawbacks go away. But yes all those apply for the impatient and those in guilds that do not have tight communities that can try things together, as a guild.