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Li / Killproof for Strikes are a Problem


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@WolfOwl.3968 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Id rather enjoy the content now and let it die, than have it ruined for me by being forced to play with people who are totally not ready to do it in the first place.

That's totally your choice. I'm just saying a little encouragement now could repay itself later, but maybe that's just me.

I do lead raid training runs and no LI strikes sometimes, but only when I have time free at weekends ect. Most days I just dont have the time to explain mechanics over and over and wipe while people learn.

I dont think I should be forced into teaching players content every day, which is what alot of people are advocating for in this thread.

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@"WolfOwl.3968" said:I'm just going to start off by saying that asking for KP, AP, or what have you as "proof" of your skill is, for the most part, simply gate-keeping.

Is it really gatekeeping? Asking for kp doesn't prevent anyone from playing the content. Anyone can make a squad.

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@zombyturtle.5980 said:I dont think I should be forced into teaching players content every day, which is what alot of people are advocating for in this thread.I actually agree with you there, forcing other's to accept you in a group is toxic behavior.

@knite.1542 said:Is it really gatekeeping? Asking for kp doesn't prevent anyone from playing the content. Anyone can make a squad.

Since no content is barred to any player there's no effective way to actually gate-keep. But it discourages new players or inexperienced ones from even attempting the content, effectively acting as a psychological barrier.

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@WolfOwl.3968 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Since no content is barred to any player there's no effective way to actually gate-keep. But it discourages new players or inexperienced ones from even attempting the content, effectively acting as a psychological barrier.

that's my stance on it aswell. I have done 1-2 strikes before people started with these absurd requirements. even in gw1 people were happy enough to allow newcomers in guilds/groups and teaching them the content. The keyproblem for me is that a lot of players think dpswise is the only way to do the content. It is true that glassy play gets more rewarded than tanky play. since glasscannons have been meta from day 1 it shouldn't be a big problem for players to do decent dps even if they don't follow the rotation. for me it is just a matter of 10 more seconds.

Another thing I might add is the fact that you get rewarded for most content pretty easily. I personally don't like it, because it gives a false sense of accomplishment. It pretty much erodes the option for tougher cotent, because people don't get frustrated.

gw2 biggest problem has been that you don't have specific roles. in most scs in gw1 you have a very specific build that works for this specific situation and each skill is used for a different purpose. here all is just spam.

A funny thing that happened to me once was that a raid player told me following rotations is super important, but easiest class to join raid is thief.... a class with 0 CDs. I don't really consider this skill, because you can use all the skills you like without facing a penalty when not. And another tried to tell me it isn't that necessary unless you want to improve, but was unable to show-off with his Li.

In fact, coming back to teaching, it ensures players propably are more likely to give the content another try. slowly growing number of players. Just recently I heard raids are pretty much dead, because playerpool is too small and bigger guilds can do them only.

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@kharmin.7683 said:If strikes are meant as a stepping stone to raids, why then are the seemingly more hard-core raiders doing strikes?

Because the raiders have already finished their first, second or third full clear of that week.Because strike missions are new content.Because strike missions have some new and exclusive rewards.Because they are quick and easy content for when you have a bit of time in between doing something else.Because they will fail as a steeping stone, but can still succeed as recycled instanced content built from assets originally created for story or open world purposes.I am pretty sure that I have missed a few reasons, but that is all I could think of.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:tl;drIf strikes are meant as a stepping stone to raids, why then are the seemingly more hard-core raiders doing strikes?

Better rewards.

Wow. I don't raid, so I didn't know that this was the case. If so, then to me it seems that strikes may have failed in their intention. I would think that the better rewards would be in raids to encourage that progression from strikes. Guess this is why I'm not a game developer.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:tl;drIf strikes are meant as a stepping stone to raids, why then are the seemingly more hard-core raiders doing strikes?

Better rewards.

Wow. I don't raid, so I didn't know that this was the case. If so, then to me it seems that strikes may have failed in their intention. I would think that the better rewards would be in raids to encourage that progression from strikes. Guess this is why I'm not a game developer.

Well when counting that you can do strikes daily the rewards are better then weekly raid clear yes.

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Browsing the appropriate sub forum (Fractals/Dungeons/Strike Missions/Raids) you will find plenty of threads on the subject:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/106885/please-stop-asking-li-for-strike-missions/p1https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107757/li-killproof-for-strikes-are-a-problem/p1

The solution to this "problem" is rather simple: make your own group, or join an active guild that has enough active players

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Perhaps if ANet were providing raid encounters in addition to Strikes, the alleged people calling for KP would have something to do. The truth is, at this point, that strikes are replacing raids, not leading up to them. While that may be a temporary state of affairs, many MMO players do not take the long view.

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@"Nightcore.5621" said:So half the people in lfg ask for 200Li kp. Strike missions was suppose to be the step before raids or help people get into raids.. you all see the problem here?

I used to complain about this very thing myself at first, but now I'm just making my own squads with the role constellation I'd like to see and the addition of "exp players only" or "Know the mechanics!"

So, no problem at all.

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Strikes have better loot and they are dailyBeing faster in them results in better lootSo raiderscome there for the loot not for learning to go raids xDYou my dear friends who complain about these groups... are going to learn strikes so u can go play raids later if u want... soooooooo let the raiders loot peacefully and find a training group for LEARNING. You rly dont need the loot at strikes. You can go dragon fall or drizzlewood coast for better loots or farm bjora chests if u want loot

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The LI/KP system is something we have in the game for years. It is necessary so experienced players can play in groups which meet their quality standards.

Strike Missions were implemented to introduce new players to instanced content and give them an easy entrance towards Raiding. Depending on who you ask, Strike Missions are seen as tutorial-difficulty or warmups to raids with a few mechanics. Some missions are more difficult than others. Works as intended. Strike Missions can be farmed and are farmed for rewards. That is why the regular instanced community does them frequently. This grants a solid player-base, which is active and willing to get the job done. Also works as intended.

However, if you are new to the game and instanced content, it gets a bit confusing. You have heard of this new content that works as an introduction to Raids, so you want to give it a try. You open the LFG and see minimum requirements for the groups, which pretty much say "be an expert in Raiding or do not join our group." That does not fit? The reason for most of the threads related to this topic at the moment.

We have basically two different groups of players who meet in the Strike Missions:

  • active instanced content players
  • new players and casuals who want to give it a try

But we do use the same LFG. If you close the Strike Missions tab for once and go to the Fractals Section, you notice a few things are different. First of all, the LFG is separated into different difficulty-tiers. Tier 1 is starter, T2 - T3 is getting more difficult and T4 is for experts. So when you want to give Fractals a try, you obviously check the Tier 1 section. There you meet players who are new, players who have just started, players who want to get a certain achievement and players who just want to play easy for some basic rewards. A newbie can easily fit in there. But you will almost never run into a group that requires 250 LI for Tier 1 dailies + rec run.

With the increasing difficulty, the rewards get better. So the highest pressure is obviously in T4. There you have farmers, players who enjoy hard content, perfectionists and other people. But rarely any real newbies.

I would like to see a better LFG for the Strike Missions. So players who are interested in trying this content out do not get into the same channel as the experienced players. Just a split into starter & experienced. Both with their own LFG and LFM channel. That would stop the confusion in my opinion.

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Meh ... there are just some crazy people. Like those asking for LI to do Shiverpeak Pass ?

On the other hand I was also in a group the other day that insisted on doing Cold War with 0 healer.

As for strikes being a step to raids, I don't think any of them would help with that except maybe WoJ.

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