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Spirit Boon - Kalla


Turkeyspit.3965

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Can we change this from granting Retaliation to Fury?

Swapping to any of the other legends gives a useful boon in whatever content you're playing; regardless of whether it's solo PvE, instanced PvE, sPvP or WvW, gaining Might, Resistance, Stability, Regen or Protection is always helpful. But Retaliation? Pretty much only of use in competitive modes, and retaliation is already stupidly effective in WvW, given all it takes to activate is to swap legends.

I'd much rather swapping to Kalla grant something that would useful in all game modes, though at the same time, we don't want to make it too powerful.

My first thought was that it should give Quickness, but as I just said, that might be OP, given Kalla already can give Might and Alacrity.

I like the idea of swapping to Kalla granting Swiftness, given how you lose out on ports and swiftness from not channelling either Shiro or Glint, but Rapid Flow technically covers access to swiftness for master trait line, and for Kalla to grant it with this trait, you would then need to rework Rapid Flow.

Giving out Fury to 5 players would be a useful boon in all game modes, and in all circumstances; even in high level fractals where players tend to be crit capped, it would be more welcomed than Retaliation.

I think Spirit Boon is a nicely designed trait, but swapping to Kalla bestows a boon that serves very little purpose in most of the content in this game, and kind of sticks out like a sore thumb.

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@Virdo.1540 said:i think IF they are gonna make a change to it, then Shiro would deserve fury more than anyone else.2 might on switch to shiro is terrible. It deserves better, like 5might, fury or even 1sec quickness

Agreed on Shiro, although I think it should give vigor.

I think the retal is fine though. Group fury is Herald's niche, Kalla doesn't need to offer yet another boon. At that point Renegade would offer every boon Glint does, plus more. Besides, diversifying retal access in the game is good (even though I wish it'd get hard nerfed in WvW).

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:i think IF they are gonna make a change to it, then Shiro would deserve fury more than anyone else.2 might on switch to shiro is terrible. It deserves better, like 5might, fury or even 1sec quickness

Agreed on Shiro, although I think it should give vigor.

I think the retal is fine though. Group fury is Herald's niche, Kalla doesn't need to offer yet
another
boon. At that point Renegade would offer every boon Glint does, plus more. Besides, diversifying retal access in the game is good (even though I wish it'd get hard nerfed in WvW).

Those are fair points, but my issue remains that retal is pretty useless outside of mass fighting in WvW. Sure it contributes in small fights or sPvP, but it's way less useful than any of the other boons you get from their respective legends. Truthfully I think retal should just be removed from the game...any game for that matter, and have felt that was since I first saw it in an MMO playing as a Retaliation Paladin in WoW back in 2008.

I'm not overly concerned with Renegade being able to give out 'another' boon, and there is really no reason to compare it to Glint since neither is stepping on each other's toes. You aren't running Herald in Fractals, Raids or Strikes over Renegade, and you aren't running Renegade in place of Herald in either WvW or sPvP. They are chosen in their respective game modes for different reasons.

Spirit Boon is also competing with Incensed Response in this tier, an effective DPS trait, so even if Spirit Boon gets buffed for Renegade, it is still a support tradeoff.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:i think IF they are gonna make a change to it, then Shiro would deserve fury more than anyone else.2 might on switch to shiro is terrible. It deserves better, like 5might, fury or even 1sec quickness

Agreed on Shiro, although I think it should give vigor.

I think the retal is fine though. Group fury is Herald's niche, Kalla doesn't need to offer yet
another
boon. At that point Renegade would offer every boon Glint does, plus more. Besides, diversifying retal access in the game is good (even though I wish it'd get hard nerfed in WvW).

Those are fair points, but my issue remains that retal is pretty useless outside of mass fighting in WvW. Sure it contributes in small fights or sPvP, but it's way less useful than any of the other boons you get from their respective legends. Truthfully I think retal should just be removed from the game...any game for that matter, and have felt that was since I first saw it in an MMO playing as a Retaliation Paladin in WoW back in 2008.

I'm not overly concerned with Renegade being able to give out 'another' boon, and there is really no reason to compare it to Glint since neither is stepping on each other's toes. You aren't running Herald in Fractals, Raids or Strikes over Renegade, and you aren't running Renegade in place of Herald in either WvW or sPvP. They are chosen in their respective game modes for different reasons.

Spirit Boon is also competing with Incensed Response in this tier, an effective DPS trait, so even if Spirit Boon gets buffed for Renegade, it is still a support tradeoff.

u also have to think, Retal is a boon that almost nobody gives. Which gives another short extra damage boost(per boon) to 5 players, when switching to renegade. This is more useful having something like fury.Also i wouldnt say that retal is op in wvw or so. Its ok. Could use a little buff in pve tho

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@Yasai.3549 said:Lol people arguing about pros and cons on picking Spirit Boon.Here's me still wondering why we can't have Spirit boon as a GM Minor instead of Contained flipping Temper.

I also would like to have it as the GM minor. When I play heal Rev I have no use for all three of the minors but still take Invo because Charged Mists is so good. With Empty Vessel being gone, I think it's fair to have Spirit Boon become a minor.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Lol people arguing about pros and cons on picking Spirit Boon.Here's me still wondering why we can't have Spirit boon as a GM Minor instead of Contained flipping Temper.

I also would like to have it as the GM minor. When I play heal Rev I have no use for all three of the minors but still take Invo because Charged Mists is so good. With Empty Vessel being gone, I think it's fair to have Spirit Boon become a minor.

Why would one choose to play healing rev with Kala while herald makes it a stronger healer?Kala has its support builds but focus on heal with boon duration stats, makes it a weaker healer than could be.Herald has the stronguest regen in game to.

@Turkeyspit.3965Retaliation is quite decent when enemy want to win trough aoe spam, kala withing the certain stats makes a great support toon.There are one or another Retail group build for kala, since retaliation damage depends on the caster power:im by far an expert using Kala but should be something arround this(this is actually one of my hammer jalis vartiations, rev is so great in terms of build variations :P):We already have heroid command for might with decent boon duration will last far mor than the skill CD.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAIZldQLMHaj1QasHKj9RjsAygF1057H-zRJYwRF/IocA-e

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Lol people arguing about pros and cons on picking Spirit Boon.Here's me still wondering why we can't have Spirit boon as a GM Minor instead of Contained flipping Temper.

I also would like to have it as the GM minor. When I play heal Rev I have no use for all three of the minors but still take Invo because Charged Mists is so good. With Empty Vessel being gone, I think it's fair to have Spirit Boon become a minor.

Why would one choose to play healing rev with Kala while herald makes it a stronger healer?Kala has its support builds but focus on heal with boon duration stats, makes it a weaker healer than could be.Herald has the stronguest regen in game to.

@Turkeyspit.3965Retaliation is quite decent when enemy want to win trough aoe spam, kala withing the certain stats makes a great support toon.There are one or another Retail group build for kala, since retaliation damage depends on the caster power:im by far an expert using Kala but should be something arround this(this is actually one of my hammer jalis vartiations, rev is so great in terms of build variations :P):We already have heroid command for might with decent boon duration will last far mor than the skill CD.

u also have to think, even if herald has the strongest regen in game, regen is often not enough.

  • when being on herald, u have almost no healing output besides weapon and regen

on Kalla u get the insane 6 & elite heal, which are even without healing power Overpowered.

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@Virdo.1540 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Lol people arguing about pros and cons on picking Spirit Boon.Here's me still wondering why we can't have Spirit boon as a GM Minor instead of Contained flipping Temper.

I also would like to have it as the GM minor. When I play heal Rev I have no use for all three of the minors but still take Invo because Charged Mists is so good. With Empty Vessel being gone, I think it's fair to have Spirit Boon become a minor.

Why would one choose to play healing rev with Kala while herald makes it a stronger healer?Kala has its support builds but focus on heal with boon duration stats, makes it a weaker healer than could be.Herald has the stronguest regen in game to.

@Turkeyspit.3965Retaliation is quite decent when enemy want to win trough aoe spam, kala withing the certain stats makes a great support toon.There are one or another Retail group build for kala, since retaliation damage depends on the caster power:im by far an expert using Kala but should be something arround this(this is actually one of my hammer jalis vartiations, rev is so great in terms of build variations :P):We already have heroid command for might with decent boon duration will last far mor than the skill CD.

u also have to think, even if herald has the strongest regen in game, regen is often not enough.
  • when being on herald, u have almost no healing output besides weapon and regen

on Kalla u get the insane 6 & elite heal, which are even without healing power Overpowered.

Only the condition damage reducer in Kala healing is very good IMO, the elite depends allies placement and their atack rate, but both depends how far spirits aoe will last before they get killed.On herald/ventari its 1k+ regen per second for each ally plus protection on herald plus weapons that heal 5k and remove condis, other sources help the sustain, the jalis sources and fb's should be more than enought, when this settup is not enough kala spirits wont last longer if they are casted, wont even say how much ventari tablet heals and removes condis.I personaly dont like Kala besides being a alacrity and retal bot/support(reason i believe retaliation should not be removed as sugested by OP), as much its utilities can work on very smal sacale arround 3-5max players more than 15-20 the utilities are a bit useless since they will be killed with all the cleave and aoes arround.

To tell you the truth idk what the dev who designed Kala was thinking :\note: my healing rev has 2.2k healing power, i sacrifice many stats for healing output since anything else wont matter to me nor my team :) (i dont pve)

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

Why would one choose to play healing rev with Kala while herald makes it a stronger healer?Kala has its support builds but focus on heal with boon duration stats, makes it a weaker healer than could be.Herald has the stronguest regen in game to.

Sounds like you misunderstood what I wrote. I was stating that I find it silly that all 3 minors for Invocation are strictly dps-oriented despite it being a largely utility-focused traitline. When I play support Rev, I take Invocation in almost every single variant I run because Charged Mists is just that good, but it is a shame that all 3 minors in Invo are a total waste.

Contained Temper is an interesting trait and is nice to fill in fury downtime with for certain variant dps builds, but I'll come out of fights on my core power Rev with like 1min+ of fury after leaving combat. For most builds it is largely superfluous unless you are getting chain-corrupted.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@"Aeolus.3615" said:

Why would one choose to play healing rev with Kala while herald makes it a stronger healer?Kala has its support builds but focus on heal with boon duration stats, makes it a weaker healer than could be.Herald has the stronguest regen in game to.

Sounds like you misunderstood what I wrote. I was stating that I find it silly that all 3 minors for Invocation are strictly dps-oriented despite it being a largely utility-focused traitline. When I play support Rev, I take Invocation in almost every single variant I run because Charged Mists is just that good, but it is a shame that all 3 minors in Invo are a total waste.

Contained Temper is an interesting trait and is nice to fill in fury downtime with for certain variant dps builds, but I'll come out of fights on my core power Rev with like 1min+ of fury after leaving combat. For most builds it is largely superfluous unless you are getting chain-corrupted.

Its a "utility traitline for dps" :P as well, i do not mind having 3 minor traits increasing damag ouput, but i do agree it should be stuff that would improve legend themselves or the legend swap mechanic rather tha pure damage ouput.Contained Temper is nice to have in most setups and almost mandatory in most non Herald builds.

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Retaliation is extremely underestimated on Revenant. Given that when people focus you and you have the right tanking strategy, you're pretty much winning in everyway. This Retaliation helps you keeping it up when leaving Jalis.

Incensed Response in sPvP was horribly nerfed though. Never use it, Spirit Boon is laughably better, because whatever legend you use with Shiro. You're still getting a boon that has a more worthwhile if not longer lasting effect. In PvE/WvW it's still broken like before, should they have just nerfed the amount or duration, not both.

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@Virdo.1540 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Retaliation is a good Boon it just needs to be buffed in PvE, just like Confusion & Torment damage.

i think retal could be buffed in wvw too.Maybe only a little bit... like a tiny +1-2% of the enemies power or smth

i can reach 6k confusion and 8k torment... in pve why should it be buffed?its better for Anet just give a skill that wipe and loots every mob in map, so the players feel rewarded as well?

Gw2 is know to be a awfull pvp design and balance game, if pve becomes easyer than it is, its becomes a joke.. as well.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Retaliation is a good Boon it just needs to be buffed in PvE, just like Confusion & Torment damage.

i think retal could be buffed in wvw too.Maybe only a little bit... like a tiny +1-2% of the enemies power or smth

i can reach 6k confusion and 8k torment... in pve why should it be buffed?its better for Anet just give a skill that wipe and loots every mob in map, so the players feel rewarded as well?

Gw2 is know to be a awfull pvp design and balance game, if pve becomes easyer than it is, its becomes a joke.. as well.

Getting 14k DPS from two conditions is still only considered "low" damage in PvE, where Power benchmarks are 35k. And the damage from Confusion and Torment aren't constant, so they're alot less damage than they seems like.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Retaliation is a good Boon it just needs to be buffed in PvE, just like Confusion & Torment damage.

i think retal could be buffed in wvw too.Maybe only a little bit... like a tiny +1-2% of the enemies power or smth

i can reach 6k confusion and 8k torment... in pve why should it be buffed?its better for Anet just give a skill that wipe and loots every mob in map, so the players feel rewarded as well?

Gw2 is know to be a awfull pvp design and balance game, if pve becomes easyer than it is, its becomes a joke.. as well.

Getting 14k DPS from two conditions is still only considered "low" damage in PvE, where Power benchmarks are 35k. And the damage from Confusion and Torment aren't constant, so they're alot less damage than they seems like.

Conditions are not ment to burst, nor tick directly hight instant damage like power.If a condition is ticking like a direct hit and keeps ticking like that high dmage over and over its overperforming.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Retaliation is a good Boon it just needs to be buffed in PvE, just like Confusion & Torment damage.

i think retal could be buffed in wvw too.Maybe only a little bit... like a tiny +1-2% of the enemies power or smth

i can reach 6k confusion and 8k torment... in pve why should it be buffed?its better for Anet just give a skill that wipe and loots every mob in map, so the players feel rewarded as well?

Gw2 is know to be a awfull pvp design and balance game, if pve becomes easyer than it is, its becomes a joke.. as well.

Getting 14k DPS from two conditions is still only considered "low" damage in PvE, where Power benchmarks are 35k. And the damage from Confusion and Torment aren't constant, so they're alot less damage than they seems like.

Conditions are not ment to burst, nor tick directly hight instant damage like power.If a condition is ticking like a direct hit and keeps ticking like that high dmage over and over its overperforming.

then conditions were overperforming since years

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@Virdo.1540 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Retaliation is a good Boon it just needs to be buffed in PvE, just like Confusion & Torment damage.

i think retal could be buffed in wvw too.Maybe only a little bit... like a tiny +1-2% of the enemies power or smth

i can reach 6k confusion and 8k torment... in pve why should it be buffed?its better for Anet just give a skill that wipe and loots every mob in map, so the players feel rewarded as well?

Gw2 is know to be a awfull pvp design and balance game, if pve becomes easyer than it is, its becomes a joke.. as well.

Getting 14k DPS from two conditions is still only considered "low" damage in PvE, where Power benchmarks are 35k. And the damage from Confusion and Torment aren't constant, so they're alot less damage than they seems like.

Conditions are not ment to burst, nor tick directly hight instant damage like power.If a condition is ticking like a direct hit and keeps ticking like that high dmage over and over its overperforming.

then conditions were overperforming since years

it m8 be the case, just like condi rev was always stronger and far stronger before patch due possible easy sustain, but there were also more easier lower effort gimmicks builds that were rewarding faster and easier than condi rev, and thus overshadowing some condis that can burst cause few were using that gimick.

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