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Unpopular opinion: Icebrood Saga is bad


Clyan.1593

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@"battledrone.8315" said:most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIMEAFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.

If by "Most of the story in the start"

You mean, specifically post 2.1 (The end of the base game) and pre-3.0 (The start of the first expansion)

Then yes. That particular bit of story sucked.

But one isolated piece of poor story doesn't invalidate the rest of the story (2.0-2.1 was decent. 3.0-4.0 was excellent, 4.0-5.0 was good, 5.0-date is good)

@"battledrone.8315" said:lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner

I assume you're talking about the Lalafell race. To which you're being hyperbolic.

Lalafell

Their heads are not bigger than the rest of their body.

If anything, Asura have worse head sizes compared to the rest of their body:

asura-01.jpg

Not to mention, even in real life, there are animals that have disproportionatly large heads for their bodies (Notably, Ant Majors which have huge heads to function as soldiers and heavy laborers)

But all these is ignoring fantasy aspects, like, the whole "Everything is infused with magic" which could lead to more diverse biologies, such as small creatures with incredibly dense muscle allowing for them to be unusually strong for their size (Explaining how a Lalafell can hit someone with an Axe as hard as say, a Roegadyn)

@"battledrone.8315" said:a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the timea good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working outhow many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

I've seen plenty of professors with six packs. I know tons of nerds who go to the gym and work out.

It's not that hard to balance things out. Since you don't need to spend 100% of your time on something to be good at it (Heck, working out/training naturally involves downtime as your body needs to rest to repair and regain strength. The perfect time to pick up some books and do some studying)

Also, nothing stops you from making a muscular beefcake character who is a mage class. Like here in GW2, you can make a Staff Elementalist who's a male norn with maxed out beefcakeness and wears a dress.

This is before you even account for the plethora of fantasy archetypes that combine magic and martial fighting styles like spellblades (Elementalist and Mesmer are examples), Paladins (Guardian is an example), Deathknights (Reaper is an example)

Not to mention... What does this even have to do with progression anyway?

If it's just about "Putting points" into stats... No-one's put points into stats for years. Stats are gained solely from equipping magically enhanced gear, which happens to bypass a lot of the training and time needed to be good at something by providing instant ability. You need to be smart? Equip some intelligence gear, now you're instant Einstien. Need to be strong? Equip some strength gear and now you're instant Hafþór Björnsson. Need to be fast? Equip some agility gear and now you're instant Usain Bolt.

Even with single class per character, it's still all about gaining stats from gear, not from inherent with the class itself due to "Studying" or "Training" with it. (Example, in GW2 every single class has a baseline of 1000 all stats at level 80. Heck, GW2 doesn't even have divisions between martial and magical ability, "Power" will make you swing a weapon harder as well as make spells stronger)

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@HotDelirium.7984 said:

I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3. They need to revamp the mastery system and as I said before move some to core for new players. Maybe a core mobility mastery track that includes water skate that allows travel toys to travel over water at walking/running speed (to make them more than just fluff items), Pact Launch Pad (with more pads added around), bouncing mushrooms and Oakheart's essence (not usable in JPs). The last two could be spread around Tyria to allow new players to get around better before they earn their mounts.

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@Taril.8619 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:FF story is awful

FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a shit or brings it up again. Then a cute catgirl wants to kitten me for some reason."Premium story telling there.

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@Trise.2865 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:FF story is awful

FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again."Premium story telling there.

And Lord of the Rings is "A midget's journey to drop a piece of jewellery into a volcano"

If you simplify and butcher the entirety of the story, anything sounds bad.

P.s. "Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again" - You mean apart from literally EVERYONE talking about it CONSTANTLY throughout THE ENTIRE STORY? As it's not only the reason why you are even relevant to the story, but also why you and only you are capable of participating in all the important fights?

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@Trise.2865 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:FF story is awful

FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again. Then a cute catgirl wants to kitten me for some reason."Premium story telling there.

wooooosh

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@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3.

Yeah. I can't even think of any reason why this skill restriction exists, at least for some of the masteries. Seems like an arbitrary and poorly thought out concept that was implemented.

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@Taril.8619 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:FF story is awful

FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again."Premium story telling there.

And Lord of the Rings is "A midget's journey to drop a piece of jewellery into a volcano"

If you simplify and butcher the entirety of the story, anything sounds bad.

P.s. "Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again" - You mean apart from literally
EVERYONE
talking about it
CONSTANTLY
throughout
THE ENTIRE STORY?
As it's not only the reason why you are even relevant to the story, but also why you and only you are capable of participating in all the important fights?

Yes, they make it painfully clear that the warrior of light is nothing but a weapon to point at all the monsters that appear. A weapon doesn't need to think of course, just nod and off it goes.

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This is the problem with being of one of the most catered to demographics, the moment a content provider decides to notice an underserved demographic, the overserved fail to recognise the difference between personal taste and objectivity. The Icebrood Saga is good for those whom it appeals to, those who enjoy mystery and intrigue rather than everything being a murderfest. I feel that No Quarter was a bone thrown to the overserved, but overall the Icebrood Saga is meant for other costumers. I mean, I'm a whale, I can pay anywhere up to a thousand dollars a month on GW2 because it occasionally caters to me, and there are others like me, so we're a very profitable group.

I feel that the Icebrood Saga is ArenaNet acknowledging that. The thing is is that overserved demographics can just decide to go anywhere else. Everything appeals to them. I see Final Fantasy XIV and The Old Republic mentioned above and that's exactly what I mean. If GW2 doesn't appeal to them then they can just go to other games, this also means that the overserved demographics don't feel as compelled to financially support any of the games they play. That's fine, it's a valid attitude to have when everything appeals to you, but it doesn't exactly make overserved demographics popular. In fact, if you can consolidate enough underserved demographics and cater to them, it can be more profitable overall for the aforementioned reason.

I feel... I admit, weirdly targeted by The Icebrood Saga in a way no game ever has managed to before. It's compelling. A story where we might redeem a dragon rather than give into toxic masculinity and fling our phalluses at it until it gets slain to sate our manhood? Yes. Please. And. Thank. You. I like dragons. I like stories about redeeming and healing dragons. Jormag is a healer, who's very misunderstood. This appeals to me. Tales of mystery and intrigue appeal to me. And there's been a strong undercurrent of neurodiversity and mental health that's been there since definitely around LWS4 if not earlier. It's just now coming more to the forefront.

I like that Bangar is being used to tackle racism. I like that the humans are aiding the charr against Bangar and his rebels. I'm kind of tired of the Ascalonian perspective of hating people just for playing charr, it's old and tired, it doesn't really belong here. You were upset about the Searing, we get it, please get over it. It's been how many years now? How many decades?? The story with Bangar is necessary to make a point about in-Universe bigotry and why it has no place in Guild Wars 2. It's meant to make bigots feel uncomfortable and I'm glad it's happening. And despite how much I love the charr, I don't mind at all that they're using the charr to tell this story as no one's perfect. So I'm hoping it'll teach a few needed lessons or at least serve to alienate the more toxic elements of the community, though I don't think we have many left.

The point is? Sure, the Icebrood Saga isn't aimed at you. That doesn't make it bad. It just means that you've been overserved and now it's someone else's turn. You could be happy for those who enjoy it?

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:FF story is awful

FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

@battledrone.8315 said:you have lego characters

Which characters are "Lego"?

@battledrone.8315 said:i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIMEAFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winnera good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the timea good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working outhow many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

@battledrone.8315 said:FF story is awful

FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

@battledrone.8315 said:you have lego characters

Which characters are "Lego"?

@battledrone.8315 said:i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIMEAFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winnera good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the timea good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working outhow many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

have you ever been in a REAL fight? OF COURSE SIZE MATTERS, pretty much EVERY martial arts is divided by GENDER and WEIGHTasura have TECHNOLOGY to help them too, it is pretty much the foundation of their societyyes , every time i see one of those giant boss monsters, i lose all immersion i had. wow wasnt so bad in that regard, specially not in the older xpacsbeing the "chosen one" ruins the foundation of RPG, why would they pick someone with the WRONG SKILLS?and if you , by some miracle, already have all the right skills, then you cant change them again (if you want to keep the status of being "chosen")

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@Taril.8619 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIMEAFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.

If by "Most of the story in the start"

You mean, specifically post 2.1 (The end of the base game) and pre-3.0 (The start of the first expansion)

Then yes. That particular bit of story sucked.

But one isolated piece of poor story doesn't invalidate the rest of the story (2.0-2.1 was decent. 3.0-4.0 was excellent, 4.0-5.0 was good, 5.0-date is good)

@"battledrone.8315" said:lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner

I assume you're talking about the Lalafell race. To which you're being hyperbolic.

Lalafell

Their heads are not bigger than the rest of their body.

If anything, Asura have worse head sizes compared to the rest of their body:

asura-01.jpg

Not to mention, even in real life, there are animals that have disproportionatly large heads for their bodies (Notably,
which have huge heads to function as soldiers and heavy laborers)

But all these is ignoring fantasy aspects, like, the whole "Everything is infused with magic" which could lead to more diverse biologies, such as small creatures with incredibly dense muscle allowing for them to be unusually strong for their size (Explaining how a Lalafell can hit someone with an Axe as hard as say, a Roegadyn)

@"battledrone.8315" said:a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the timea good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working outhow many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

I've seen plenty of professors with six packs. I know tons of nerds who go to the gym and work out.

It's not that hard to balance things out. Since you don't need to spend 100% of your time on something to be good at it (Heck, working out/training naturally involves downtime as your body needs to rest to repair and regain strength. The perfect time to pick up some books and do some studying)

Also, nothing stops you from making a muscular beefcake character who is a mage class. Like here in GW2, you can make a Staff Elementalist who's a male norn with maxed out beefcakeness and wears a dress.

This is before you even account for the plethora of fantasy archetypes that combine magic and martial fighting styles like spellblades (Elementalist and Mesmer are examples), Paladins (Guardian is an example), Deathknights (Reaper is an example)

Not to mention... What does this even have to do with progression anyway?

If it's just about "Putting points" into stats... No-one's put points into stats for years. Stats are gained solely from equipping magically enhanced gear, which happens to bypass a lot of the training and time needed to be good at something by providing instant ability. You need to be smart? Equip some intelligence gear, now you're instant Einstien. Need to be strong? Equip some strength gear and now you're instant Hafþór Björnsson. Need to be fast? Equip some agility gear and now you're instant Usain Bolt.

Even with single class per character, it's still all about gaining stats from gear, not from inherent with the class itself due to "Studying" or "Training" with it. (Example, in GW2 every single class has a baseline of 1000 all stats at level 80. Heck, GW2 doesn't even have divisions between martial and magical ability, "Power" will make you swing a weapon harder as well as make spells stronger)

a modern "professor"dont need to be smart, idi amin was a professor. so was saddam hussein. and so was all the kims in north korea.we are talking nobel price quality here, not many sixpacks to be found thereputting the stats on the gear makes it even worse, that would make our characters a blank slate to be filled by gear grind

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@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3. They need to revamp the mastery system and as I said before move some to core for new players. Maybe a core mobility mastery track that includes water skate that allows travel toys to travel over water at walking/running speed (to make them more than just fluff items), Pact Launch Pad (with more pads added around), bouncing mushrooms and Oakheart's essence (not usable in JPs). The last two could be spread around Tyria to allow new players to get around better before they earn their mounts.

Not the mention some of the mount masteries. The extra endurance one is good but is irrelevant to springer. The linking vitality one is not great also because the mount doesn't have the same stats as you so that vitality goes down fast and then your downed so the risk isn't worth it so I never use it.

They SAID they could revamp old maps....well here we are. Do it.

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@Atomos.7593 said:

I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3.

Yeah. I can't even think of any reason why this skill restriction exists, at least for some of the masteries. Seems like an arbitrary and poorly thought out concept that was implemented.

We got a few of them in other maps and more in Dragonfall so they CAN do them but they won't which gives me pause. So WHY? My only guess is a weak logic of those masteries staying around the map that contains that plot explanation and maybe the spaghetti code, allegedly. Having a mastery mechanic where we can pledge ourselves to a human god and get that hymn some where out there would be pretty cool.

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Their insistence on pushing samey-same LW maps every release with an excessive focus on gem store sales, mediocre story, and an over-abundance of chaotic map metas instead of focusing on exploration, small group content, mechanical expansions, and PvP enhancements has already killed this game. Unless Cantha is somehow truly spectacular, I don't expect it to recover.

It's as if they knew the story was the worst part of the game from launch and spent years and years trying to fix/overcompensate without the talent to do it effectively and killed the game in the process.

In an MMO, immersion is important, but immersion needs a combination of deep mechanics, player camaraderie, and an interesting story. Even if the story was really good it would be insufficient to hold players on its own, and that's the fallacy with the way the game has developed.

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FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

@battledrone.8315 said:you have lego characters

Which characters are "Lego"?

@battledrone.8315 said:i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIMEAFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winnera good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the timea good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working outhow many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

@battledrone.8315 said:FF story is awful

FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

@battledrone.8315 said:you have lego characters

Which characters are "Lego"?

@battledrone.8315 said:i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIMEAFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winnera good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the timea good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working outhow many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

have you ever been in a REAL fight? OF COURSE SIZE MATTERS, pretty much EVERY martial arts is divided by GENDER and WEIGHTasura have TECHNOLOGY to help them too, it is pretty much the foundation of their societyyes , every time i see one of those giant boss monsters, i lose all immersion i had. wow wasnt so bad in that regard, specially not in the older xpacsbeing the "chosen one" ruins the foundation of RPG, why would they pick someone with the WRONG SKILLS?and if you , by some miracle, already have all the right skills, then you cant change them again (if you want to keep the status of being "chosen")

Size matters just in real life, dummy. In tyria it doesn't matter if it's a norn or asura who hits a dragon, unless they are empowered by something or someone and/or have some super weapon, You know "chosen one" if empowered, depends with the super weapon.

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@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:This is the problem with being of one of the most catered to demographics, the moment a content provider decides to notice an underserved demographic, the overserved fail to recognise the difference between personal taste and objectivity. The Icebrood Saga is good for those whom it appeals to, those who enjoy mystery and intrigue rather than everything being a murderfest. I feel that No Quarter was a bone thrown to the overserved, but overall the Icebrood Saga is meant for other costumers. I mean, I'm a whale, I can pay anywhere up to a thousand dollars a month on GW2 because it occasionally caters to me, and there are others like me, so we're a very profitable group.

I feel that the Icebrood Saga is ArenaNet acknowledging that. The thing is is that overserved demographics can just decide to go anywhere else. Everything appeals to them. I see Final Fantasy XIV and The Old Republic mentioned above and that's exactly what I mean. If GW2 doesn't appeal to them then they can just go to other games, this also means that the overserved demographics don't feel as compelled to financially support any of the games they play. That's fine, it's a valid attitude to have when everything appeals to you, but it doesn't exactly make overserved demographics popular. In fact, if you can consolidate enough underserved demographics and cater to them, it can be more profitable overall for the aforementioned reason.

I feel... I admit, weirdly targeted by The Icebrood Saga in a way no game ever has managed to before. It's compelling. A story where we might redeem a dragon rather than give into toxic masculinity and fling our phalluses at it until it gets slain to sate our manhood? Yes. Please. And. Thank. You. I like dragons. I like stories about redeeming and healing dragons. Jormag is a healer, who's very misunderstood. This appeals to me. Tales of mystery and intrigue appeal to me. And there's been a strong undercurrent of neurodiversity and mental health that's been there since definitely around LWS4 if not earlier. It's just now coming more to the forefront.

I like that Bangar is being used to tackle racism. I like that the humans are aiding the charr against Bangar and his rebels. I'm kind of tired of the Ascalonian perspective of hating people just for playing charr, it's old and tired, it doesn't really belong here. You were upset about the Searing, we get it, please get over it. It's been how many years now? How many decades?? The story with Bangar is necessary to make a point about in-Universe bigotry and why it has no place in Guild Wars 2. It's meant to make bigots feel uncomfortable and I'm glad it's happening. And despite how much I love the charr, I don't mind at all that they're using the charr to tell this story as no one's perfect. So I'm hoping it'll teach a few needed lessons or at least serve to alienate the more toxic elements of the community, though I don't think we have many left.

The point is? Sure, the Icebrood Saga isn't aimed at you. That doesn't make it bad. It just means that you've been overserved and now it's someone else's turn. You could be happy for those who enjoy it?

Thats all well and good, sending a message is great as its what art sometimes is for. But what about the norn? This is the story of Jormag their greatest foe; Why the heck is the charr center stage. You could EASILY of used the svanir to tell a story about the oppression of sexism and its wider effects on a society and more importantly a world, racism is a huge component of this story. Great, but bangar does not and should not be the main villain and the charr should not be the main focus as again they have been a HUGE part of the story through-out guild wars 2. The norn deserve better and as a norn exclusive player I feel personally that we are not being given the time of day, we are back ground and foreground with sprinklings of lore dropped here and there but we haven't done much of anything. Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualistic and are in my eyes at the very least kind of subverted due to their time away from holebrak and their people. We could use some "true" norn in here showcasing their ideals and what it means to be norn. Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands. Those in the vigil and such don't count as they are part of an organization which has undoubtedly changed their outlook on life, Im talking about the natives of hoelbrak who have everything to do with this conflict.

I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place. He has yet to be used as a character but has been set up for so much. Yet he will likely be ignored and just left where he is while they brought in bangar, DESPITE the idiot never making an appearance prior and only being mentioned same with Jhavi. Jhavi's arc is done she killed drakkar and avenged jora/svanir so honestly Im not sure outside of a background character as to why they would string her along. The purpose of her legend is done. But Knut is a direct descendant of Asgeir himself.... his bloodline is inherently and intrinsically linked to jormag... but rather we have braham to be asgeir 2.0. Personally its a waste of the Norn as a race and any potential story-telling that could be done through them.

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@Einlanzer.1627 said:Their insistence on pushing samey-same LW maps every release with a skin store and excessive and mediocre story instead of focusing on exploration, dungeons, mechanical expansions, and PvP enhancements has already killed this game. Unless Cantha is somehow truly spectacular, I don't expect it to recover.

It's as if they new the story was the worst part of the game from launch and spent years and years trying to fix/overcompensate for it and killed the game in the process.IMO, the worst parts of the original game was PVP, dungeons, and underwater combat. And the better parts were the story and exploration, something they have kept the focus on since then.

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@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualisticThe whole point of the Norn has always been that they are a race of "individuals", who shun the very idea of society as we understand it, and instead prefer to live alone/with their immediate family. They are nothing but a species of individuals. The Spirits of the Wild even led them south because they were driving themselves to extinction by trying to fight Jormag this way.

Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands.We already saw that in Bjora Marches. The Norn priests who are attempting to purify the shrines of Wolverine, Eagle, and Ox, are all non Vigil Norn(though usually being escorted/assisted by Vigil), who followed those spirits, who came up north to try to help their spirits now that it was possible to get up there. And the Norn priest protecting Jora's Keep is Havroun Wibe, a non Vigil Norn priest.

I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place.Knut Whitebear is an old man who has no real power over the Norn because, again, the Norn don't have an organized society, and are a species of individuals. Its exactly like the gathering of political leaders that occurred before we went to fight Mordremoth. Even back then, Knut admitted he really can't DO anything besides tell other Norn there is some glory to be had fighting the Dragon, since the Norn don't have an army, and don't really take orders from him. Knut himself isn't going to leave Hoelbrak, and risk getting himself killed, which would throw the closest thing the Norn have to a capital into chaos, and be immensely damaging to the Norn.

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@vier.1327 said:I hope something happens, this saga does not deserved an streaming announcement.

This is so very true, and hammers home a point I've made before: ANet's marketing decisions are baffling. I don't understand how it's possible that a group of adults who are very familiar with GW2 (and its ups and downs) could possibly have thought the streaming announcement would be a good thing.

@Tukaram.8256 said:I found Bjora to be very boring and Drizzlewood looks like something they slapped together over the weekend. But, it is free content, so no worries.

Agree on all counts. Bjora was a nice environment to explore once, but it seems to lack the fundamental feeling of... richness that the core maps and HoT maps have. As for Drizzlewood, I totally thought the exact same thing when it launched, but I appreciate that (1) it's free, and (2) they tried something different on a map that actually turned out really fun imo. AA duty with charzookas was an unexpected delight, and packs of Dominion mobs can actually kill my glass cannon builds if I'm not watching reflects/snares/etc. It's just about the only part of the game that can hold my attention right now between pvp matches.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:This is the problem with being of one of the most catered to demographics, the moment a content provider decides to notice an underserved demographic, the overserved fail to recognise the difference between personal taste and objectivity. The Icebrood Saga is good for those whom it appeals to, those who enjoy mystery and intrigue rather than everything being a murderfest. I feel that No Quarter was a bone thrown to the overserved, but overall the Icebrood Saga is meant for other costumers. I mean, I'm a whale, I can pay anywhere up to a thousand dollars a month on GW2 because it occasionally caters to me, and there are others like me, so we're a very profitable group.

I feel that the Icebrood Saga is ArenaNet acknowledging that. The thing is is that overserved demographics can just decide to go anywhere else. Everything appeals to them. I see Final Fantasy XIV and The Old Republic mentioned above and that's exactly what I mean. If GW2 doesn't appeal to them then they can just go to other games, this also means that the overserved demographics don't feel as compelled to financially support any of the games they play. That's fine, it's a valid attitude to have when everything appeals to you, but it doesn't exactly make overserved demographics popular. In fact, if you can consolidate enough underserved demographics and cater to them, it can be more profitable overall for the aforementioned reason.

I feel... I admit, weirdly targeted by The Icebrood Saga in a way no game ever has managed to before. It's compelling. A story where we might redeem a dragon rather than give into toxic masculinity and fling our phalluses at it until it gets slain to sate our manhood? Yes. Please. And. Thank. You. I like dragons. I like stories about redeeming and healing dragons. Jormag is a healer, who's very misunderstood. This appeals to me. Tales of mystery and intrigue appeal to me. And there's been a strong undercurrent of neurodiversity and mental health that's been there since definitely around LWS4 if not earlier. It's just now coming more to the forefront.

I like that Bangar is being used to tackle racism. I like that the humans are aiding the charr against Bangar and his rebels. I'm kind of tired of the Ascalonian perspective of hating people just for playing charr, it's old and tired, it doesn't really belong here. You were upset about the Searing, we get it, please get over it. It's been how many years now? How many decades?? The story with Bangar is necessary to make a point about in-Universe bigotry and why it has no place in Guild Wars 2. It's meant to make bigots feel uncomfortable and I'm glad it's happening. And despite how much I love the charr, I don't mind at all that they're using the charr to tell this story as no one's perfect. So I'm hoping it'll teach a few needed lessons or at least serve to alienate the more toxic elements of the community, though I don't think we have many left.

The point is? Sure, the Icebrood Saga isn't aimed at you. That doesn't make it bad. It just means that you've been overserved and now it's someone else's turn. You could be happy for those who enjoy it?

Thats all well and good, sending a message is great as its what art sometimes is for. But what about the norn? This is the story of Jormag their greatest foe; Why the heck is the charr center stage. You could EASILY of used the svanir to tell a story about the oppression of sexism and its wider effects on a society and more importantly a world, racism is a huge component of this story. Great, but bangar does not and should not be the main villain and the charr should not be the main focus as again they have been a HUGE part of the story through-out guild wars 2. The norn deserve better and as a norn exclusive player I feel personally that we are not being given the time of day, we are back ground and foreground with sprinklings of lore dropped here and there but we haven't done much of anything. Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualistic and are in my eyes at the very least kind of subverted due to their time away from holebrak and their people. We could use some "true" norn in here showcasing their ideals and what it means to be norn. Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands. Those in the vigil and such don't count as they are part of an organization which has undoubtedly changed their outlook on life, Im talking about the natives of hoelbrak who have everything to do with this conflict.

I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place. He has yet to be used as a character but has been set up for so much. Yet he will likely be ignored and just left where he is while they brought in bangar, DESPITE the idiot never making an appearance prior and only being mentioned same with Jhavi. Jhavi's arc is done she killed drakkar and avenged jora/svanir so honestly Im not sure outside of a background character as to why they would string her along. The purpose of her legend is done. But Knut is a direct descendant of Asgeir himself.... his bloodline is inherently and intrinsically linked to jormag... but rather we have braham to be asgeir 2.0. Personally its a waste of the Norn as a race and any potential story-telling that could be done through them.

I agree that Norn have not been in any kind of highlight really (exept Braham embarassing himself repeatedly) but the Asura/Charr are not much better. The most Asura get is Taimi pulling another world saving idea/device out her backside or occasionally someone else but that is it.

Besides, i don't remember the Charr or Asura as a species ever being important, only Taimi or Rytlock and mostly his sword but nothing more. Well, maybe their guns but that is basicly nothing and now you have the Norn spirits so i guess they are even. The fact that Norn have a little less just proves that Humans are the only ones that matter, kinda like they turned the commander into a Human no matter what race you choose. The Sylvari got one expac, which is much more than Charr/Norn/Asura COMBINED. Besides, a little highlight means nothing for any lore or information on the race itself, just what one person/group did.

Something other than Human would be the best thing that could happen but, well, next is Cantha for some unfathomable reason (but really, it's easy to recycle). I don't think anet is even trying, just the next most predictable thing on the list for easy money milking.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualisticThe whole point of the Norn has always been that they are a race of "individuals", who shun the very idea of society as we understand it, and instead prefer to live alone/with their immediate family. They are nothing but a species of individuals. The Spirits of the Wild even led them south because they were driving themselves to extinction by trying to fight Jormag this way.

Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands.We already saw that in Bjora Marches. The Norn priests who are attempting to purify the shrines of Wolverine, Eagle, and Ox, are all non Vigil Norn(though usually being escorted/assisted by Vigil), who followed those spirits, who came up north to try to help their spirits now that it was possible to get up there. And the Norn priest protecting Jora's Keep is Havroun Wibe, a non Vigil Norn priest.

I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place.Knut Whitebear is an old man who has no real power over the Norn because, again, the Norn don't have an organized society, and are a species of individuals. Its exactly like the gathering of political leaders that occurred before we went to fight Mordremoth. Even back then, Knut admitted he really can't DO anything besides tell other Norn there is some glory to be had fighting the Dragon, since the Norn don't have an army, and don't really take orders from him. Knut himself isn't going to leave Hoelbrak, and risk getting himself killed, which would throw the closest thing the Norn have to a capital into chaos, and be immensely damaging to the Norn.

So, as soon as you humanize the Norn, the Charr, and Asura the world instantly becomes a better place? sound about right, heh. When all races are like humans, the human gods return and transform them into humans and we get instant paradise, like in real life. Hah! (You didn't say that straight, so i just stated it for you. After all: not human = going to kill themselves one way or another.) Should get better writers instead of some children bed time story writers. If you "fail", you only "failed" so you could win bigger next time (remember aurene?).

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@"Yggranya.5201" said:So, as soon as you humanize the Norn, the Charr, and Asura the world instantly becomes a better place? sound about right, heh. When all races are like humans, the human gods return and transform them into humans and we get instant paradise, like in real life. Hah! (You didn't say that straight, so i just stated it for you. After all: not human = going to kill themselves one way or another.) Should get better writers instead of some children bed time story writers. If you "fail", you only "failed" so you could win bigger next time (remember aurene?).A. I never said anything about humanizing them.B. All species in fiction are based off of humanity. They are already humanized simply by being sentient species because humans only know of human existence so the only thing we have to base fictional species on is humanity.

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@"Yggranya.5201" said:Something other than Human would be the best thing that could happen but, well, next is Cantha for some unfathomable reason (but really, it's easy to recycle). I don't think anet is even trying, just the next most predictable thing on the list for easy money milking.Cantha is next for a really easily understandable reason... there isn't much left to do besides Cantha.

As it standsHumans(Kryta)

  • The bandit leaders are all either dead, or imprisoned, ending the threat of organized banditry in Kryta.
  • The Centaurs have been pushed out of Kryta, and their war leader killed, ending the Human-Centaur War with a decisive human victory.
  • The White Mantle, who was not only feeding the Bandit problem, but also manipulating Kryta from the inside, has been rooted out and destroyed, ending the insider threat once and for all.

Sylvari

  • The mystery behind their origin has been answered.
  • The Nightmare Court, never a large group, has had its numbers and leadership demolished by our attack on Twilight Arbor, the breaking up of their alliance with the Krait, and the numbers Mordremoth was able to turn.
  • The Pale Tree, injured by the Shadow of the Dragon's attack, has been put on the path to recovery thanks to the Commander's restoration of Caladbolg.

Charr

  • The Charr have made peace with the humans of Ascalon, and beyond, ending centuries of war between the two races.
  • The Flame Legion's leadership was destroyed, and the survivors have organized under Efram, who has made peace with the other legions. Bringing the Flame Legion back into the rest of Charr society.
  • Kralkatorrik and its generals have been killed, ending the threat of organized Branded attacks in Charr lands. And machines are being used to draw the last of the Branded from underground, so they can be finally removed once and for all.
  • The whole "Khan-Ur" thing is in the process of being resolved, and will likely be so by the end of Icebrood Saga.

Norn

  • Braham has broken Jormag's tooth, as per the legend.
  • We have killed the Fraenir, the highest ranking of the Svanir.
  • Jhavi has led an attack on Drakkar, and bested the beast in combat, earning her family some measure of revenge for what it did to them.
  • We have discovered what happened to the lost Spirits of the Wild, and have, at least temporarily, freed them from Jormag's influence.
  • We are currently in the middle of the Icebrood Saga, which will almost certainly see the defeat of Jormag by its end, thus ending the main Icebrood threat, and breaking the back of the Svair's cult.

Humans(Elona)

  • The Forged army has been broken, and mopped up.
  • Joko's empire is in total collapse in the face of civilian uprising across Elona.
  • The Sunpears have been reformed, with bases in Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi(and possibly Amnoon) and are leading a coalition government consisting of themselves, the Order of whispers, the Free Awakened, and Joko's Loyalists, to build a better future for Elona.

Besides the Asura story stuff(such as stopping the Inquest once and for all, going underground and finding one of the 6 lost great Asuran cities, and defeating Primordus), and ending the ghost problem in Ascalon(which really wouldn't take more then one release at this point), Guild Wars 2 has already wrapped up, or is currently wrapping up, every major story thread its introduced.

Going to Cantha makes sense because its the single biggest source of new plot threads. Dealing with the corrupt Ministry of Purity, and the xenophobic Canthan Empire, dealing with Kurzick and Luxon shenanigans, Kuunavang stuff, and probably the water dragon.

Then Anet will come back to Tyria proper, and do the Primordus/Asura story stuff, and.... then the game's story would be done at that point.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Yggranya.5201" said:So, as soon as you humanize the Norn, the Charr, and Asura the world instantly becomes a better place? sound about right, heh. When all races are like humans, the human gods return and transform them into humans and we get instant paradise, like in real life. Hah! (You didn't say that straight, so i just stated it for you. After all: not human = going to kill themselves one way or another.) Should get better writers instead of some children bed time story writers. If you "fail", you only "failed" so you could win bigger next time (remember aurene?).A. I never said anything about humanizing them.B. All species in fiction are based off of humanity. They are already humanized simply by being sentient species because humans only know of human existence so the only thing we have to base fictional species on is humanity.

But see that is what A-net is doing. Humanizing them to make them "Relatable" and people like them because of what they are, not because of what they could be. We love the charr because they are as they are... I don't want humanized versions of the races. But that is the narrative that A-net is choosing to follow. Bangar and Smodur at the only charr acting like charr.... the rest are... well.... kinda... humanish.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualisticThe whole point of the Norn has always been that they are a race of "individuals", who shun the very idea of society as we understand it, and instead prefer to live alone/with their immediate family. They are nothing but a species of individuals. The Spirits of the Wild even led them south because they were driving themselves to extinction by trying to fight Jormag this way.

Im not saying they aren't Im saying that all three of those individuals do not represent norn values. They have been changed by interactions with other races; So much so that Jhavi and Braham have little knowledge of their ancestors outside of Jhavi knowing she is tied to jora/svanir. We don't get to see their culture and how they function outside of the influence and sphere of other races. By all intents and purposes they might as well just as easily be humans, it wouldn't change the narrative in any meaningful way.

Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands.We already saw that in Bjora Marches. The Norn priests who are attempting to purify the shrines of Wolverine, Eagle, and Ox, are all non Vigil Norn(though usually being escorted/assisted by Vigil), who followed those spirits, who came up north to try to help their spirits now that it was possible to get up there. And the Norn priest protecting Jora's Keep is Havroun Wibe, a non Vigil Norn priest.

Havroun Weib however had no major lore connects, he hadn't interacted with us and we don't know how or why he came to this place. He was just present for the meta and as all things go the Meta may or may not be cannon. The priests are not from hoelbrak they are primarily from the vigil and other orders which means once more their view is altered based on how long they've been away. We don't have any norn following the old paths or beliefs within the maps outside of the few shamans ATTEMPTING to preform rituals they are unfamiliar with in hopes of helping their chosen spirits. This however does not mean we have norn warriors choosing to come of their own volition and the lore connection between the norn present and the narrative is loose at best. Im talking a full on chunk if not the majority of this saga should of been exploring their culture, their way of life and how it was prior and how it is now. Im not interested in stupid charr politics, im interested in the spirits of the wild and their connection to the mists and tyria. I want to know where the norn came from and their potential ties to the kodan; Id also like more interactions with the kodan and the norn and thus far its all "charr this, and charr that." Kinda makes it hard for me to feel invested when this was NOT THEIR PLOT. The norn were set up from day one to fight jormag, it was their plot so much so it features in their stories begining in this game. Yet.... it seems to be that the charr and friends will save the day. Thats bs writing and poor way of closing an arc.... the charrs enemy was Kralk, I likewise expected more charr influence in that fight..... yet it was a primarily human affair.

I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place.Knut Whitebear is an old man who has no real power over the Norn because, again, the Norn don't have an organized society, and are a species of individuals. Its exactly like the gathering of political leaders that occurred before we went to fight Mordremoth. Even back then, Knut admitted he really can't DO anything besides tell other Norn there is some glory to be had fighting the Dragon, since the Norn don't have an army, and don't really take orders from him. Knut himself isn't going to leave Hoelbrak, and risk getting himself killed, which would throw the closest thing the Norn have to a capital into chaos, and be immensely damaging to the Norn.

Doesn't matter, he is a hero and he should be allowed to feature and have some development. There are plenty of ways to write him in perhaps hoelbrak and many of those residing within wish to join the fight in an "all or nothing" scenario. They united around Asgeir when Jormag came down upon them so its not something the will oppose, especially in reclamation of their lands and the vengeance for their people. What of the other Havrouns, where are they? Why only Weib hell we don't even know if bear has a havroun considering that Gretchen dies in the core tyria story. There are tons of characters tied to this plot that ANYONE who has been paying attention would know about, what of wolf's new havroun. The one who replaced her mentor in the personal story when her mentor was murdered by svanir cultists, and what of the leopard shaman who took us into the mists. All of these are parts of the story that should feature here and they dont, we should be dealing with the spirits far more and the lore of ancient norn past. Hell why are the Jotuun involved? They have a bone to pick with jormag AND with the norn, and with the charr as well and from the personal story the rumors of a new king coming to power was hinted at even after you dealt with one of the growing warlords that was plauging the foothills region. WHAT ABOUT ALLLL OF THIS? Are you telling me its fine they ignore all these set ups and not play with them a bit, because "meh, charr". No Im so sick of the charr that its killing any interest in the story for me, because as a norn I have to share OUR plot-thread with them. This is all norn will ever get because from here its cantha, and more human drivel and probably from there even more human stuff. I doubt the Asuran will even feature in their own story so two of the five races get shafted while the other three get all the attention, then why bother having them at all.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:Their insistence on pushing samey-same LW maps every release with a skin store and excessive and mediocre story instead of focusing on exploration, dungeons, mechanical expansions, and PvP enhancements has already killed this game. Unless Cantha is somehow truly spectacular, I don't expect it to recover.

It's as if they new the story was the worst part of the game from launch and spent years and years trying to fix/overcompensate for it and killed the game in the process.IMO, the worst parts of the original game was PVP, dungeons, and underwater combat. And the better parts were the story and exploration, something they have kept the focus on since then.

That may be your opinion, but it wasn't the general consensus. Most aspects of the game were initially well reviewed with the story being routinely cited as the weakest link.

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