Regeneration

[Jski.6180]

The current set up for Regeneration boon seems to be out dated to both out going healing strong reg skill and runes that bluntly buff the reg effect.

Per wiki: Regeneration is a boon that grants healing over time. It stacks in duration. The boon with the highest healing contribution is used before other lower healing power applications. Only healing power affects boon prioritization; healing modifiers do not.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regeneration

This means that a class who has the highest healing power gets the reg ticks even if the reg it self from the skill or out going heal effects has a higher tick. So your in effect loosing out on a way of playing the game only because of build in healing power effects (such as a class getting +250 healing power). This seems like a comply out dated effect that needs to be fixed as it remove a massive part of skills for classes who simply do not get as much "free" healing power + effects.

Regeneration should tick for the highest amount NOT the highest healing power or your making skills that are balanced with a high reg tick in mind invaded.

[Khisanth.2948]

There has never been a time when regeneration's set up wasn't out of date. ?

On the other hand that is mostly an issue with multiple healers around ...

[Heizero.9183]

Maybe Regeneration should now start stacking intensity instead of duration. I only think its fair. Regeneration is such a lackluster boon currently and with all of the conditions dot damage stacking inensity, including burning, it seems fair for regeneration to be the boon that should stack intensity.

[Jski.6180]

@Heizero.9183 said:Maybe Regeneration should now start stacking intensity instead of duration. I only think its fair. Regeneration is such a lackluster boon currently and with all of the conditions dot damage stacking inensity, including burning, it seems fair for regeneration to be the boon that should stack intensity.

That would not fix the underlying problem of healing power being the main effect that will tick the reg it self. Stacking say 25 of lower end reg with still the highest healing power would still negate stronger reg effects from stacking.

That is the problem here you having strong reg effects not working because of this healing power only letting the tricks trigger. Stacking duration OR insistently would still have the same problem.

[Taril.8619]

@Jski.6180 said:That is the problem here you having strong reg effects not working because of this healing power only letting the tricks trigger. Stacking duration OR insistently would still have the same problem.

Only in the case where you are hitting 25+ stacks of Regen.

Which, how often will that actually occur? Especially without duration stacking to put up long duration Regen effects.

Many applications of Regen only last for a few seconds, meaning you'd need a bunch of sources to apply Regen within a small timeframe AND then have build discrepancies such as some people having Healing Power while others have no Healing Power but a ton of Regeneration amp effects to even have a case where you'd lose tick efficiency.

[Jski.6180]

@Taril.8619 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:That is the problem here you having strong reg effects not working because of this healing power only letting the tricks trigger. Stacking duration OR insistently would still have the same problem.

Only in the case where you are hitting 25+ stacks of Regen.

Which, how often will that actually occur? Especially without duration stacking to put up long duration Regen effects.

Many applications of Regen only last for a few seconds, meaning you'd need a bunch of sources to apply Regen within a small timeframe AND then have build discrepancies such as some people having Healing Power while others have no Healing Power but a ton of Regeneration amp effects to even have a case where you'd lose tick efficiency.

I mean condi dmg use to have the same problems right? You would hit a cap at some point unless you want to make reg stacking capless witch would cause a lot of problems.

It may not seem like it but the game is full of reg skills and often they are balanced with reg in mind of part of the skill effect. Reg is base off of a very old mind set of balancing that has been non existing for 7 years now. If anet dose not simply make the strongest reg tick take over (out going healing and reg effectiveness being part of the pirotily of the tick) you simply have whom ever can spam it the most OR who simply has the most "free" healing power as classes build for out going heal not healing power.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@Taril.8619 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is the problem here you having strong reg effects not working because of this healing power only letting the tricks trigger. Stacking duration OR insistently would still have the same problem.

Only in the case where you are hitting 25+ stacks of Regen.

Which, how often will that actually occur? Especially without duration stacking to put up long duration Regen effects.

Many applications of Regen only last for a few seconds, meaning you'd need a bunch of sources to apply Regen within a small timeframe AND then have build discrepancies such as some people having Healing Power while others have no Healing Power but a ton of Regeneration amp effects to even have a case where you'd lose tick efficiency.

Im pretty sure regen caps at 5 stacks, not 25.

[Taril.8619]

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is the problem here you having strong reg effects not working because of this healing power only letting the tricks trigger. Stacking duration OR insistently would still have the same problem.

Only in the case where you are hitting 25+ stacks of Regen.

Which, how often will that actually occur? Especially without duration stacking to put up long duration Regen effects.

Many applications of Regen only last for a few seconds, meaning you'd need a bunch of sources to apply Regen within a small timeframe AND then have build discrepancies such as some people having Healing Power while others have no Healing Power but a ton of Regeneration amp effects to even have a case where you'd lose tick efficiency.

Im pretty sure regen caps at 5 stacks, not 25.

Regen doesn't stack.

I was inferring the previous posters comment about Regen stacking to 25.

@Jski.6180 said:I mean condi dmg use to have the same problems right? You would hit a cap at some point unless you want to make reg stacking capless witch would cause a lot of problems.

Condi damage used to not stack intensity and would only stack duration. They were changed to all stack intensity so that multiple sources of conditions would work together.

Other similar things were changed too, such as Reaper's GM Trait Deathly Chill. It used to make Reaper's Chill deal damage over time, but it had sloppy interactions with other players in PvE applying longer duration Chill effects that would overwrite Reaper's many instances of low duration chills and thus invalidate the damage from this trait.

@Jski.6180 said:It may not seem like it but the game is full of reg skills and often they are balanced with reg in mind of part of the skill effect.

It is full of regen skills. Not many are used though.

Especially given how terrible Regen is without Healing Power (Similar issues exist for Guardian's Virtue of Resolve and honestly... Any heal effect that isn't an actual healing skill or Soulcleave's Summit... Including most weapon skill heals...)

Healing for ~130 health per second for 3-6 seconds is not particularly noteworthy against healthpools of 11,000-20,000.

Which is why this issue with regeneration isn't particularly prominent, since the main users of Regen, are heal builds (Such as Druid or Scrapper) which will typically be running Healing power and thus their Regen ticks will take priority over some of the other incidental regen applications.

[Jski.6180]

@Taril.8619 said:

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is the problem here you having strong reg effects not working because of this healing power only letting the tricks trigger. Stacking duration OR insistently would still have the same problem.

Only in the case where you are hitting 25+ stacks of Regen.

Which, how often will that actually occur? Especially without duration stacking to put up long duration Regen effects.

Many applications of Regen only last for a few seconds, meaning you'd need a bunch of sources to apply Regen within a small timeframe AND then have build discrepancies such as some people having Healing Power while others have no Healing Power but a ton of Regeneration amp effects to even have a case where you'd lose tick efficiency.

Im pretty sure regen caps at 5 stacks, not 25.

Regen doesn't stack.

I was inferring the previous posters comment about Regen stacking to 25.

@Jski.6180 said:I mean condi dmg use to have the same problems right? You would hit a cap at some point unless you want to make reg stacking capless witch would cause a lot of problems.

Condi damage used to not stack intensity and would only stack duration. They were changed to all stack intensity so that multiple sources of conditions would work together.

Other similar things were changed too, such as Reaper's GM Trait Deathly Chill. It used to make Reaper's Chill deal damage over time, but it had sloppy interactions with other players in PvE applying longer duration Chill effects that would overwrite Reaper's many instances of low duration chills and thus invalidate the damage from this trait.

@Jski.6180 said:It may not seem like it but the game is full of reg skills and often they are balanced with reg in mind of part of the skill effect.

It is full of regen skills. Not many are used though.

Especially given how terrible Regen is without Healing Power (Similar issues exist for Guardian's Virtue of Resolve and honestly... Any heal effect that isn't an actual healing skill or Soulcleave's Summit... Including most weapon skill heals...)

Healing for ~130 health per second for 3-6 seconds is not particularly noteworthy against healthpools of 11,000-20,000.

Which is why this issue with regeneration isn't particularly prominent, since the main users of Regen, are heal builds (Such as Druid or Scrapper) which will typically be running Healing power and thus their Regen ticks will take priority over some of the other incidental regen applications.

Right but if you apply the 99+ stack rule to reg you see 5k+ reg ticks no where balanced.

Reg is a bit more complex that just 130 hp per sec there real ways to buff it with out going heal as well as keep it balanced so self sustain is not too op. By making healing power the only way for ticks to trigger for each stacking player you make reg even more weaker as an support effect making the healing power player the more likely to get the ticks and make the self support stronger then it should be by making the all in healing power the way to build reg ticks.

There are a few skills that do stack reg in insistently all be them very rare. Healing Rain is a "3" stack reg power effect where it heals 390 per sec ticks base BUT because of the healing power priority it makes the ticks never happen because of other ppl simply getting there 1 stack reg tick to trigger due to other classes having simply higher base healing power.

You can never "fix" any thing about reg or even add in strong effects because of this healing power priority problem. Any suggestion will run into this dead end over and over. It makes skills that could be useful and effected worthless.

@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 the best reg is 6 stacks Healing Spring. 780 healing per sec base.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration. Healing Power is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

[otto.5684]

I always thought that reg will work much better if it functioned like might. 80 hp reg, not tied to stats. With limit of either 4 or 5 stacks.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@Taril.8619 said:

Im pretty sure regen caps at 5 stacks, not 25.

Regen doesn't stack.

It does. Just not the usual way. You can get Regeneration from 5 Sources, the 6th source will overwrite the shortest duration stack IF it would last longer. You dont see a number, but all boons are stack capped at either 5 or 9.

[Jski.6180]

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration. Healing Power is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration.

Healing Power

is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

That is... very inconsequential. In theory it is only a minor discrepancy, but in practice you're not going to see that. Organized PVE has one dedicated healer per group, so there won't be any overlap. WvW healer builds go all out, building up as much healing power and boon duration as possible, so it is very rare for there to be any significant loss in regeneration ticks between different healer. It is going to require some convoluted circumstances for discrepancies between healer's regeneration is going to have a big impact.

You're still getting those stacks of regeneration. The only way you lose out is if a dedicated healer is constantly providing regeneration to you, in which case you're straining at the gnat. You don't need your personal regeneration if you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive. Even if you only get a small burst of regeneration, then your complaint is that you're getting superior immediate heals than what you would have originally had, immediately followed by your own personal regeneration stacks.

[Jski.6180]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration.

Healing Power

is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

That is... very inconsequential. In theory it is only a minor discrepancy, but in practice you're not going to see that. Organized PVE has one dedicated healer per group, so there won't be any overlap. WvW healer builds go all out, building up as much healing power and boon duration as possible, so it is very rare for there to be any significant loss in regeneration ticks between different healer. It is going to require some convoluted circumstances for discrepancies between healer's regeneration is going to have a big impact.

You're still getting those stacks of regeneration. The only way you lose out is if a dedicated healer is

constantly

providing regeneration to you, in which case you're straining at the gnat. You don't need your personal regeneration if you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive. Even if you only get a small burst of regeneration, then your complaint is that you're getting superior immediate heals than what you would have originally had, immediately followed by your own personal regeneration stacks.

Its never a good thing to have conflicting effects just because you build less effective for support running more healing power making your self more tankly but less able to heal vs out going healing making you less tankly but better support. You even have a rune set that makes regs stronger as well as traits yet with out the amount of healing power to win out over passively higher healing power builds makes it all pointless. You even have strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers witch is a very rare effect but its all lost and there by lose of balancing of the skill just because healing power controls the regs that get to trick and not the amount of the regs it self.

Your getting reg stacks that are stronger but not ticking there by making them pointless in a fight of any type. The current way reg works makes it so ppl can troll build in a way to stop more effective game play.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration.

Healing Power

is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

That is... very inconsequential. In theory it is only a minor discrepancy, but in practice you're not going to see that. Organized PVE has one dedicated healer per group, so there won't be any overlap. WvW healer builds go all out, building up as much healing power and boon duration as possible, so it is very rare for there to be any significant loss in regeneration ticks between different healer. It is going to require some convoluted circumstances for discrepancies between healer's regeneration is going to have a big impact.

You're still getting those stacks of regeneration. The only way you lose out is if a dedicated healer is

constantly

providing regeneration to you, in which case you're straining at the gnat. You don't need your personal regeneration if you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive. Even if you only get a small burst of regeneration, then your complaint is that you're getting superior immediate heals than what you would have originally had, immediately followed by your own personal regeneration stacks.

Its never a good thing to have conflicting effects just because you build less effective for support running more healing power making your self more tankly but less able to heal vs out going healing making you less tankly but better support. You even have a rune set that makes regs stronger as well as traits yet with out the amount of healing power to win out over passively higher healing power builds makes it all pointless. You even have strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers witch is a very rare effect but its all lost and there by lose of balancing of the skill just because healing power controls the regs that get to trick and not the amount of the regs it self.

Your getting reg stacks that are stronger but not ticking there by making them pointless in a fight of any type. The current way reg works makes it so ppl can troll build in a way to stop more effective game play.

You don't passively win out over high healing power builds. That level of modifiers to regeneration don't exist. And again, you don't have "strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers." Regeneration only stacks in duration, period. Having a skill give 3 stacks of 2 second regeneration is effectively the same as giving 1 stack of 6 seconds of regeneration.

[Jski.6180]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration.

Healing Power

is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

That is... very inconsequential. In theory it is only a minor discrepancy, but in practice you're not going to see that. Organized PVE has one dedicated healer per group, so there won't be any overlap. WvW healer builds go all out, building up as much healing power and boon duration as possible, so it is very rare for there to be any significant loss in regeneration ticks between different healer. It is going to require some convoluted circumstances for discrepancies between healer's regeneration is going to have a big impact.

You're still getting those stacks of regeneration. The only way you lose out is if a dedicated healer is

constantly

providing regeneration to you, in which case you're straining at the gnat. You don't need your personal regeneration if you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive. Even if you only get a small burst of regeneration, then your complaint is that you're getting superior immediate heals than what you would have originally had, immediately followed by your own personal regeneration stacks.

Its never a good thing to have conflicting effects just because you build less effective for support running more healing power making your self more tankly but less able to heal vs out going healing making you less tankly but better support. You even have a rune set that makes regs stronger as well as traits yet with out the amount of healing power to win out over passively higher healing power builds makes it all pointless. You even have strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers witch is a very rare effect but its all lost and there by lose of balancing of the skill just because healing power controls the regs that get to trick and not the amount of the regs it self.

Your getting reg stacks that are stronger but not ticking there by making them pointless in a fight of any type. The current way reg works makes it so ppl can troll build in a way to stop more effective game play.

You don't passively win out over high healing power builds. That level of modifiers to regeneration don't exist. And again, you don't have "strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers." Regeneration only stacks in duration, period. Having a skill give 3 stacks of 2 second regeneration is effectively the same as giving 1 stack of 6 seconds of regeneration.

But they do. You can modifies the amount of reg though out going heal and a rune set. As well as you have some skills that simply have the reg effect modified build in and these skills are balanced with that in mind.

You as a player can make your reg stronger with out going into healing power with out going heal and the game is better for having it work this way because your out going heal effect dose not make your healer harder to kill yet healing power dose.

I am not sure what game your playing but if your reg is running out at any point there is something wrong. Reg is every where and its duration can be pushed to a high amount. To say that some one reg will tick because other regs will run out so its all fine seems a bit short sighted.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration.

Healing Power

is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

That is... very inconsequential. In theory it is only a minor discrepancy, but in practice you're not going to see that. Organized PVE has one dedicated healer per group, so there won't be any overlap. WvW healer builds go all out, building up as much healing power and boon duration as possible, so it is very rare for there to be any significant loss in regeneration ticks between different healer. It is going to require some convoluted circumstances for discrepancies between healer's regeneration is going to have a big impact.

You're still getting those stacks of regeneration. The only way you lose out is if a dedicated healer is

constantly

providing regeneration to you, in which case you're straining at the gnat. You don't need your personal regeneration if you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive. Even if you only get a small burst of regeneration, then your complaint is that you're getting superior immediate heals than what you would have originally had, immediately followed by your own personal regeneration stacks.

Its never a good thing to have conflicting effects just because you build less effective for support running more healing power making your self more tankly but less able to heal vs out going healing making you less tankly but better support. You even have a rune set that makes regs stronger as well as traits yet with out the amount of healing power to win out over passively higher healing power builds makes it all pointless. You even have strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers witch is a very rare effect but its all lost and there by lose of balancing of the skill just because healing power controls the regs that get to trick and not the amount of the regs it self.

Your getting reg stacks that are stronger but not ticking there by making them pointless in a fight of any type. The current way reg works makes it so ppl can troll build in a way to stop more effective game play.

You don't passively win out over high healing power builds. That level of modifiers to regeneration don't exist. And again, you don't have "strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers." Regeneration only stacks in duration, period. Having a skill give 3 stacks of 2 second regeneration is effectively the same as giving 1 stack of 6 seconds of regeneration.

But they do. You can modifies the amount of reg though out going heal and a rune set. As well as you have some skills that simply have the reg effect modified build in and these skills are balanced with that in mind.

You as a player can make your reg stronger with out going into healing power with out going heal and the game is better for having it work this way because your out going heal effect dose not make your healer harder to kill yet healing power dose.

I am not sure what game your playing but if your reg is running out at any point there is something wrong. Reg is every where and its duration can be pushed to a high amount. To say that some one reg will tick because other regs will run out so its all fine seems a bit short sighted.

No they don't. There isn't enough modifiers to overpower a dedicated healing build. There is no heal skill that has a modified version of regeneration. The only reason why regeneration would be continuous is if a dedicated healer is constantly giving you regeneration.

[Jski.6180]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration.

Healing Power

is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

That is... very inconsequential. In theory it is only a minor discrepancy, but in practice you're not going to see that. Organized PVE has one dedicated healer per group, so there won't be any overlap. WvW healer builds go all out, building up as much healing power and boon duration as possible, so it is very rare for there to be any significant loss in regeneration ticks between different healer. It is going to require some convoluted circumstances for discrepancies between healer's regeneration is going to have a big impact.

You're still getting those stacks of regeneration. The only way you lose out is if a dedicated healer is

constantly

providing regeneration to you, in which case you're straining at the gnat. You don't need your personal regeneration if you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive. Even if you only get a small burst of regeneration, then your complaint is that you're getting superior immediate heals than what you would have originally had, immediately followed by your own personal regeneration stacks.

Its never a good thing to have conflicting effects just because you build less effective for support running more healing power making your self more tankly but less able to heal vs out going healing making you less tankly but better support. You even have a rune set that makes regs stronger as well as traits yet with out the amount of healing power to win out over passively higher healing power builds makes it all pointless. You even have strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers witch is a very rare effect but its all lost and there by lose of balancing of the skill just because healing power controls the regs that get to trick and not the amount of the regs it self.

Your getting reg stacks that are stronger but not ticking there by making them pointless in a fight of any type. The current way reg works makes it so ppl can troll build in a way to stop more effective game play.

You don't passively win out over high healing power builds. That level of modifiers to regeneration don't exist. And again, you don't have "strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers." Regeneration only stacks in duration, period. Having a skill give 3 stacks of 2 second regeneration is effectively the same as giving 1 stack of 6 seconds of regeneration.

But they do. You can modifies the amount of reg though out going heal and a rune set. As well as you have some skills that simply have the reg effect modified build in and these skills are balanced with that in mind.

You as a player can make your reg stronger with out going into healing power with out going heal and the game is better for having it work this way because your out going heal effect dose not make your healer harder to kill yet healing power dose.

I am not sure what game your playing but if your reg is running out at any point there is something wrong. Reg is every where and its duration can be pushed to a high amount. To say that some one reg will tick because other regs will run out so its all fine seems a bit short sighted.

No they don't. There isn't enough modifiers to overpower a dedicated healing build. There is no heal skill that has a modified version of regeneration. The only reason why regeneration would be continuous is if a dedicated healer is constantly giving you regeneration.

You can get +40% out going heal as well as +20% reg effectiveness from runes and +20% form a trait. That a massive amount of reg buff for a duration of a fight. All of that means nothing if you do not have more healing power then a class who can easily spam reg on ppl. Its just not good balancing.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Regeneration really needs to both stack in intensity (up to five times), and take outgoing healing% into account.

Its the main source of healing for some classes (like Rev, which gets 1k Regen ticks).

When properly used its so powerful that it can outstrip the smaller heals from classes that can't buff it as much, and its also a source of many other mechanics in the game like building up Celestial Avatar. Therefor its important that this boon be brought up to date and not just be treated as "forgotten". Other boons like Quickness need to stack in intensity, too.

Stacking by duration is an outdated mechanic that limits the usefulness of certain boons and conditions in groups, and actively contributes to the excess of boons in competitive modes if they can't be stripped frequently.

Take Fury for example, it could be changed to 5% per stack, max 5 stacks, so your group would have 5-25%. You would need better builds, and more coordination to maintain the uptime, but your average damage would be higher, and it would overall be healthier for the game because then the Fury boon could be added to more classes and skills, and more players could provide it safely.

Same for all boons that work that way, really.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:There's been a misunderstanding. When the wiki says that healing power affects boon prioritization, this isn't talking about how many stacks of regeneration a skill gives. It is talking about the attributes of the player who applied regeneration.

Healing Power

is an attribute, much like precision and condition damage. It is this attribute that determines which stacks of regen goes first.

I.E. An Elementlaist with 1000 healing power uses Tidal Surge, giving 8 seconds of regeneration, healing for 255 health per second. If a ranger with 0 healing power uses Healing Spring, it will give out 3 seconds of regeneration every 2 seconds, which would heal for 130 health per second. They're going to stack like this:

1) Ele Regen (8), Range Regen (3)2) Ele Regen (7), Ranger Regen (3)3) Ele Regen (6), Ranger Regen (6)4) Ele Regen (5), Ranger Regen (6)5) Ele Regen (4), Ranger Regen (9)

And so on. Until the Elementalist's stronger regen of 255 per second is completely consumed, the weaker regen of the ranger of 130 per second is going to keep stacking up in the background. The way the ordering works means that your regeneration is only going to be put on the back burner if somebody else with higher healing power gives you regeneration. Then, your regeneration ticks are going to sit in the background, waiting until the new regeneration is done.

Sadly that dose not seem to work like that when it comes to whom getting the tick. If your ele has 1k healing power but your ranger has only 0 the ranger will not get any tricks as the priority of healing power blocks the ranger reg from doing any thing till that ele reg falls off. Offten that means the lesser reg dose nothing in a fight its there but your missing out on a lot of healing effects for skills and it comply messes up the balancing of that skill.

Another way to think about it is if you have an ele with 1k healing power and +20% out going heal vs a scraper with 1250 healing power and only 10% out going heals the scraper reg will trigger before the eles because of the healing power priority effect. Even though the eles reg will be stronger because of the out going healing. That where the real problem is and it should be fixed.

This misunderstanding is that there more to healing then just healing power in gw2 yet its messing up healing balancing of skills because they have not been updated.

That is... very inconsequential. In theory it is only a minor discrepancy, but in practice you're not going to see that. Organized PVE has one dedicated healer per group, so there won't be any overlap. WvW healer builds go all out, building up as much healing power and boon duration as possible, so it is very rare for there to be any significant loss in regeneration ticks between different healer. It is going to require some convoluted circumstances for discrepancies between healer's regeneration is going to have a big impact.

You're still getting those stacks of regeneration. The only way you lose out is if a dedicated healer is

constantly

providing regeneration to you, in which case you're straining at the gnat. You don't need your personal regeneration if you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive. Even if you only get a small burst of regeneration, then your complaint is that you're getting superior immediate heals than what you would have originally had, immediately followed by your own personal regeneration stacks.

Its never a good thing to have conflicting effects just because you build less effective for support running more healing power making your self more tankly but less able to heal vs out going healing making you less tankly but better support. You even have a rune set that makes regs stronger as well as traits yet with out the amount of healing power to win out over passively higher healing power builds makes it all pointless. You even have strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers witch is a very rare effect but its all lost and there by lose of balancing of the skill just because healing power controls the regs that get to trick and not the amount of the regs it self.

Your getting reg stacks that are stronger but not ticking there by making them pointless in a fight of any type. The current way reg works makes it so ppl can troll build in a way to stop more effective game play.

You don't passively win out over high healing power builds. That level of modifiers to regeneration don't exist. And again, you don't have "strong reg effects on skills stacking reg numbers." Regeneration only stacks in duration, period. Having a skill give 3 stacks of 2 second regeneration is effectively the same as giving 1 stack of 6 seconds of regeneration.

But they do. You can modifies the amount of reg though out going heal and a rune set. As well as you have some skills that simply have the reg effect modified build in and these skills are balanced with that in mind.

You as a player can make your reg stronger with out going into healing power with out going heal and the game is better for having it work this way because your out going heal effect dose not make your healer harder to kill yet healing power dose.

I am not sure what game your playing but if your reg is running out at any point there is something wrong. Reg is every where and its duration can be pushed to a high amount. To say that some one reg will tick because other regs will run out so its all fine seems a bit short sighted.

No they don't. There isn't enough modifiers to overpower a dedicated healing build. There is no heal skill that has a modified version of regeneration. The only reason why regeneration would be continuous is if a dedicated healer is constantly giving you regeneration.

You can get +40% out going heal as well as +20% reg effectiveness from runes and +20% form a trait. That a massive amount of reg buff for a duration of a fight. All of that means nothing if you do not have more healing power then a class who can easily spam reg on ppl. Its just not good balancing.

Out-going healing doesn't affect yourself. You can't take all of those modifiers at the same time. Only one class has an effectiveness bonus (Herald). If you take the Runes of Dwayna for the 20% regen bonus, you are also going to get healing power, which will cause your regeneration to take precedence over everyone else... except for dedicated healing builds, which will quickly leave you in the dust with their superior healing power. 20% from runes, and an additional 20% on Herald is not enough to overpower a healing build.

You're straining at a gnat. The problem you are talking about is unheard of in the game, and even if it did show it up would be the most inconsequential problem in the game.

[Khisanth.2948]

The amount of outgoing healing modifiers can get pretty high

Lets assume a rev with ascended harrier ...1355 healing power1044 concentration

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tranquil_Balance+20%/+7% while health is >75%

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invoking_Harmony+20%/+10% after invoking a legend

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serene_Rejuvenation+15%/+10%

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Selfless_Amplification+1.5% per 100 healing power+20.325%

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Delicious_Rice_Ballhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Fruit_Salad_with_Mint_Garnishhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mint_Creme_Brulee+10%

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Maintenance_Oil+0.6% per 100 healing power+8.13%+0.8% per 100 concentration+8.352%

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Transference+10%

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Benevolence+0.5% per stack, 25 stacks max+12.5% at max stacks

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Monk+10%+1% per boon applied to allies within the last 3 seconds up to+10%

144.307%/116.307% total

If we eliminate the situational(Tranquil Balance, Invoking Harmony, Sigil of Benevolence) it becomes91.807%/86.807%

Since a lot of that is just from things every class has access to if we just look at the class specifics it becomes

Guardian - 10%+ to 35%+https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorated_Bulwark5% per stack after blocking, max of 5 stacks25% at max stacks

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will1% per 100 vitality10% minimum at lv80

Elementalist - 15%https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aquamancer%27s_Training15%

Ranger(Druid) - 20%https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Mender2% per stack when healing another ally, maximum 10 stacks20% at max stacks

Engineer - 20% while using med kithttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health_Insurance

Rev - 35% to 75%

On the other hand if we only consider 10+ group content with an organized group this problem can already be at least partially mitigated by correctly arranging your subsquads

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

He's not talking about dedicated healing builds. He's talking about regeneration that you apply to yourself from some strange, unspecified, hybridized build. In that case, the only bonuses to regeneration are on the Herald, and the runes of Dwayna. That caps at 40% for one class, and 20% for others.

Or at least that is what I think he's talking about, because nothing he is saying makes sense. For one, if you build a group healer with a whole bunch of out-going modifiers but no healing power, then you're running some jank-incompetent build that nobody would recommend. Second, if you've made a competent healing build, then you shouldn't be afraid of somebody else somehow having higher healing power, but significantly weaker heals to the point where it actually matters. We're talking about comparing 84% to 94% bonus on regeneration only. The only situation where anything he says matters is if there is a hybrid build that, for personal survival, decided to invest an unholy amount of effort into self-healing with regeneration (which caps at 40%, mind you) without putting any points into healing power, only to somehow get trolled by a nearby player who has the exact right amount of healing power to both take priority yet be inferior to the dedicated self healer, and this player also has dedicated themselves to spamming as much regeneration as possible on other people.

For reference, every 1% boost to healing is equivalent to 10.4 points of healing power, if you don't have any healing power. This means that, at 1040 healing power, you are effectively doing a 100% increase, dwarfing all modifiers completely. But, lets look at the regeneration example again, and assume you have 40% healing bonus without any healing power. It would take 416 healing power to match it. The lowest amount of healing power that a build could accidentally have is 604 from Exotic Celestial, which would completely dwarf the bonuses that you're running.

That's why I don't buy it. You would have to purposefully go out and invent some convoluted, hybridized build built exclusively to make Jski's fears come true, and even then we're talking about the most minuscule of differences in regeneration ticks.

[Jski.6180]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:He's not talking about dedicated healing builds. He's talking about regeneration that you apply to yourself from some strange, unspecified, hybridized build. In that case, the only bonuses to regeneration are on the Herald, and the runes of Dwayna. That caps at 40% for one class, and 20% for others.

Or at least that is what I think he's talking about, because nothing he is saying makes sense. For one, if you build a group healer with a whole bunch of out-going modifiers but no healing power, then you're running some jank-incompetent build that nobody would recommend. Second, if you've made a competent healing build, then you shouldn't be afraid of somebody else somehow having higher healing power, but significantly weaker heals to the point where it actually matters. We're talking about comparing 84% to 94% bonus on regeneration only. The only situation where anything he says matters is if there is a hybrid build that, for personal survival, decided to invest an unholy amount of effort into self-healing with regeneration (which caps at 40%, mind you) without putting any points into healing power, only to somehow get trolled by a nearby player who has the exact right amount of healing power to both take priority yet be inferior to the dedicated self healer, and this player also has dedicated themselves to spamming as much regeneration as possible on other people.

For reference, every 1% boost to healing is equivalent to 10.4 points of healing power, if you don't have any healing power. This means that, at 1040 healing power, you are effectively doing a 100% increase, dwarfing all modifiers completely. But, lets look at the regeneration example again, and assume you have 40% healing bonus without any healing power. It would take 416 healing power to match it. The lowest amount of healing power that a build could accidentally have is 604 from Exotic Celestial, which would completely dwarf the bonuses that you're running.

That's why I don't buy it. You would have to purposefully go out and invent some convoluted, hybridized build built exclusively to make Jski's fears come true, and even then we're talking about the most minuscule of differences in regeneration ticks.

The complete opposite i am talking about all in healing builds that are going high end reg aimed build. The problem is that the strongest reg tick is not the effect that is going off its the highest healing power reg tick witch may not be the best. And i am going out of my way to talk about how out going healing is better as a means of how well the reg tick is going off on then just healing power as out going heal is better for balancing as you cant be more tankly as a healer with it like you can with healing power.