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The correct way to rework mirage.


Jekkt.6045

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@otto.5684 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Frankly, I always thought Mirage's focused on accenting the profession's capacity to be a mobile, evasive, condition skirmisher the obvious draw back should be towards Mirage should be a serious vitality penalty. You'd become as evasive as a thief, but you'd have their same health pool so that if you screw up on a mirage it's significantly more punishing.

It's more in line with the philosophy of the elite spec while providing very clear tangible weakness. It even fits thematically because as a Mirage you have the capacity to be come intangible, but you're less stable when attacks do land.

I would 10,000x be down for that were they to give mirage the thieves level of on demand access to evades.

Having draw backs or trade offs doesn't NECESSARILY mean screwing with the profession mechanic. I've never agreed with Arenanet's approach to this at all. I've thought just in terms of how laser focused the spec is, Druid never really needed a real trade off due to the fact that taking Druid means you will NEVER do as much damage as a core ranger, let alone Soulbeast. Taking druid already has strengths and weaknesses just due to the nature of their traits and skills and unique weapon. The main problem with Druid wasn't a lack of trade off but how it is both terrible at actually supporting other players in PvP and also GW2's inherent problem where anything that heals others a lot becomes an absurdly resilient bunker as opposed to a squishy healer who can keep the team alive but is susceptible to being focused like how healers work in other games.

Another one for example is I've always believed Holosmith should have some sort of healing penalty due to how the elite spec is designed around being a higher risk+higher reward super DPS augment to core engineer. Very high and easy damage, but you
need
to land it correctly and avoid counterattacks properly because you just wouldn't have the sustain of a core engineer, let alone a scrapper.

You can build in strengths and weaknesses to the elite specs without having to gut the class mechanic entirely. Sometimes the elite spec altering the profession mechanic is the right thing to do, sometimes it's not. That's always been my philosophy.

If the capabilities of a core profession look like this;

8OP0VMq.png

Elite specs should in turn be altering the profession like this.

GgFnJg3.png

I really wish Anet understood this. Having a mechanic that is different does not create a "trade-off." And you also could have a trade-off without changing any mechanics.The result of the implementing trade-off has to match-up with the goal of it, and they rarely do. I personally view the trade-off balance talk as nothing more than a publicity stunt. There might be a grandiose idea of how things should work, but in reality, it never does, cuz Anet devs do not think things through.

the sad truth is, if balanced properly no elite spec should require a trade off. as the name suggests, elite specs should specialize your class in some way. but they rarely do and are just upgrades most of the time. why is that? because most elite specs do the same thing as the core specs, just better. if we compare some elite specs it becomes quite evident. druid on release was basically ranger + sustain. soulbeast was ranger + more damage + better survivability. in reality, ranger should be the damage spec, druid the healing spec and soulbeast the condi spec... heck dagger is even a condi weapon.

elite specs should make things possible that your core spec can't do, not improve on what the core spec is already capable of. how can a designer achieve that? by creating skills traits and weapons that only do what the elite spec is supposed to do. the elite spec is a healer? then make healing skills and traits. there's no need for damage or offensive condi traits if that's not the elite spec's job. look at chrono traits, they're a complete mess. there are like 2-3 supportish traits and the rest is damage or slow stuff.

it's fine if an elite spec can't be played in a different way than intended. sure, it's more limiting, but it's also better for balance. elite specs should not be jack of all trades traitlines..

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hi i just opened a thread in mesmer subforum for suggestions about mirage (but also chrono) changes. all ppl are welcome to add their ideas. the goal is, to come to a shorter 1-2 wordpad document for cmc to read. that was the conclusion we had after the meeting with cmc and the class coaches in the pvp discord (a link to join the discord you find in the mesmer subforum thread). feel welcome to join as long as you are constructive and focus one the elite mechanic questions first, there will be the time for a second document about nerf and buff suggestions later. so avoid nerf/buff controversials in this thread for once if possible :)

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/108992/doc-mesmer-changes-suggestions-for-cmc#latest

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@"Jazz.4639" said:hi i just opened a thread in mesmer subforum for suggestions about mirage (but also chrono) changes. all ppl are welcome to add their ideas. the goal is, to come to a shorter 1-2 wordpad document for cmc to read. that was the conclusion we had after the meeting with cmc and the class coaches in the pvp discord (a link to join the discord you find in the mesmer subforum thread). feel welcome to join as long as you are constructive and focus one the elite mechanic questions first, there will be the time for a second document about nerf and buff suggestions later. so avoid nerf/buff controversials in this thread for once if possible :)

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/108992/doc-mesmer-changes-suggestions-for-cmc#latest

I wasn't in the mood to add my suggestions until now, i lost my hope about Anet admitting any mistakes and just want Mesmers to be trash tbh, at least until i saw the Chrono changes today. Even though you have most of it in private mails from longer ago already and a lot of it was inspired by talking with you anyway, i think i should post my wall of texts there again? I will do it in the next days then.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@"Jazz.4639" said:hi i just opened a thread in mesmer subforum for suggestions about mirage (but also chrono) changes. all ppl are welcome to add their ideas. the goal is, to come to a shorter 1-2 wordpad document for cmc to read. that was the conclusion we had after the meeting with cmc and the class coaches in the pvp discord (a link to join the discord you find in the mesmer subforum thread). feel welcome to join as long as you are constructive and focus one the elite mechanic questions first, there will be the time for a second document about nerf and buff suggestions later. so avoid nerf/buff controversials in this thread for once if possible :)

I wasn't in the mood to add my suggestions until now, i lost my hope about Anet admitting any mistakes and just want Mesmers to be trash tbh, at least until i saw the Chrono changes today. Even though you have most of it in private mails from longer ago already and a lot of it was inspired by talking with you anyway, i think i should post my wall of texts there again? I will do it in the next days then.

yes pls so i have all at same place. makes it easier

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Just restore 2 dodges and remove energy sigil lmao

because removing a sigil because of one elite spec is a good idea, yeah no.

No but removing a sigil which is used by every single class for years is, however. Go on godsofpvp and look for yourself.

certain classes have better defensive options available to them than others, that's where sigil of energy makes up for it. other classes rely on dodge effects and make use of them that way. you just have to balance the on dodge effects well enough and it won't be a problem. energy sigil was nerfed from 50% to 25% already so it's not a problem anymore, just a good general sigil like cleansing too.

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@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Just restore 2 dodges and remove energy sigil lmao

because removing a sigil because of one elite spec is a good idea, yeah no.

No but removing a sigil which is used by every single class for years is, however. Go on godsofpvp and look for yourself.

certain classes have better defensive options available to them than others, that's where sigil of energy makes up for it. other classes rely on dodge effects and make use of them that way. you just have to balance the on dodge effects well enough and it won't be a problem. energy sigil was nerfed from 50% to 25% already so it's not a problem anymore, just a good general sigil like cleansing too.
  1. Every class uses it for years
  2. It makes counting dodges unreliable for no reason (u cant tell if they have sigil or not)
  3. Makes some dodge mechanics aids, prominently mirage cloak, explosive entrance, prenerf warrior dodge
  4. The argument that "certain classes need it" is a bad one just as it was for sigil of agility. It is a crutch.
  5. Yes cleansing is the 2nd best sigil
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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Just restore 2 dodges and remove energy sigil lmao

because removing a sigil because of one elite spec is a good idea, yeah no.

No but removing a sigil which is used by every single class for years is, however. Go on godsofpvp and look for yourself.

certain classes have better defensive options available to them than others, that's where sigil of energy makes up for it. other classes rely on dodge effects and make use of them that way. you just have to balance the on dodge effects well enough and it won't be a problem. energy sigil was nerfed from 50% to 25% already so it's not a problem anymore, just a good general sigil like cleansing too.
  1. The argument that "certain classes need it" is a bad one just as it was for sigil of agility. It is a crutch.

Of course it is a bad argument, but do you seriously expect anet to rework the defense of classes that rely on energy sigil? They can remove it for all i care if they fix the class balance first.

And the same applies to vigour, some classes have it some do not and it makes counting dodges unreliable aswell.

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@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Just restore 2 dodges and remove energy sigil lmao

because removing a sigil because of one elite spec is a good idea, yeah no.

No but removing a sigil which is used by every single class for years is, however. Go on godsofpvp and look for yourself.

certain classes have better defensive options available to them than others, that's where sigil of energy makes up for it. other classes rely on dodge effects and make use of them that way. you just have to balance the on dodge effects well enough and it won't be a problem. energy sigil was nerfed from 50% to 25% already so it's not a problem anymore, just a good general sigil like cleansing too.
  1. The argument that "certain classes need it" is a bad one just as it was for sigil of agility. It is a crutch.

Of course it is a bad argument, but do you seriously expect anet to rework the defense of classes that rely on energy sigil? They can remove it for all i care if they fix the class balance first.

And the same applies to vigour, some classes have it some do not and it makes counting dodges unreliable aswell.

which class(es) are you talking about specifically?

you can see vigor though, and it is also slower and less immediately impactful

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Just restore 2 dodges and remove energy sigil lmao

because removing a sigil because of one elite spec is a good idea, yeah no.

No but removing a sigil which is used by every single class for years is, however. Go on godsofpvp and look for yourself.

certain classes have better defensive options available to them than others, that's where sigil of energy makes up for it. other classes rely on dodge effects and make use of them that way. you just have to balance the on dodge effects well enough and it won't be a problem. energy sigil was nerfed from 50% to 25% already so it's not a problem anymore, just a good general sigil like cleansing too.
  1. The argument that "certain classes need it" is a bad one just as it was for sigil of agility. It is a crutch.

Of course it is a bad argument, but do you seriously expect anet to rework the defense of classes that rely on energy sigil? They can remove it for all i care if they fix the class balance first.

And the same applies to vigour, some classes have it some do not and it makes counting dodges unreliable aswell.

which class(es) are you talking about specifically?

you can see vigor though, and it is also slower and less immediately impactful

The ones that are slow or very squishy. Not all specs hold true to this anymore, but as far as core specs go, eles guardians and necros rely on energy sigil the most.Now, necro these days is a lot more tanky compared to what it used to be, but not being able to dodge cc in a teamfight even with shroud could probably still be certain death. Ele and guardian because of their health pools and because guardian is really slow if you can't port to a target for reasons.

Mesmer and thief are obviously very squishy, but they're also more slippery than the above mentioned three. So I feel like they need energy less than the others.

Ranger, Warrior, Rev, Engi would probably care the least about the removal of sigil of energy.

Yes vigour is better in terms of how clear the endurance regen is, but nonetheless adds a layer of irrgularity that needs to be accounted for when you count/bait dodges. Is it bad for the game? I don't think so.

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@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Just restore 2 dodges and remove energy sigil lmao

because removing a sigil because of one elite spec is a good idea, yeah no.

No but removing a sigil which is used by every single class for years is, however. Go on godsofpvp and look for yourself.

certain classes have better defensive options available to them than others, that's where sigil of energy makes up for it. other classes rely on dodge effects and make use of them that way. you just have to balance the on dodge effects well enough and it won't be a problem. energy sigil was nerfed from 50% to 25% already so it's not a problem anymore, just a good general sigil like cleansing too.
  1. The argument that "certain classes need it" is a bad one just as it was for sigil of agility. It is a crutch.

Of course it is a bad argument, but do you seriously expect anet to rework the defense of classes that rely on energy sigil? They can remove it for all i care if they fix the class balance first.

And the same applies to vigour, some classes have it some do not and it makes counting dodges unreliable aswell.

which class(es) are you talking about specifically?

you can see vigor though, and it is also slower and less immediately impactful

The ones that are slow or very squishy. Not all specs hold true to this anymore, but as far as core specs go, eles guardians and necros rely on energy sigil the most.Now, necro these days is a lot more tanky compared to what it used to be, but not being able to dodge cc in a teamfight even with shroud could probably still be certain death. Ele and guardian because of their health pools and because guardian is really slow if you can't port to a target for reasons.Yep this is why I asked, because things like necro are not as dependant on it as before the big nerf patch. We are tanky now, in general we don't need evade spam (exaggerating here) anymore.

Mesmer and thief are obviously very squishy, but they're also more slippery than the above mentioned three. So I feel like they need energy less than the others.Mesmer (mirage and chrono specifically) needs it a lot but you are right that this would be a buff for thief because they don't need energy bcs of initiative mechanic.

Ranger, Warrior, Rev, Engi would probably care the least about the removal of sigil of energy.Don't think they would care less than ele par example. Explo engi loves enegy sigil.

Yes vigour is better in terms of how clear the endurance regen is, but nonetheless adds a layer of irrgularity that needs to be accounted for when you count/bait dodges. Is it bad for the game? I don't think so.I have thought about this before actually, I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't have added it if it did not exist but it is too late to reconcider it now. Energy on the other hand is a gamechanger and also easy to remove, just like sigil of agility.
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@Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

@"Jekkt.6045" said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

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@"otto.5684" said:

I really wish Anet understood this. Having a mechanic that is different does not create a "trade-off." And you also could have a trade-off without changing any mechanics.The result of the implementing trade-off has to match-up with the goal of it, and they rarely do. I personally view the trade-off balance talk as nothing more than a publicity stunt. There might be a grandiose idea of how things should work, but in reality, it never does, cuz Anet devs do not think things through.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks "tradeoff" talk from ANet sounds extremely hollow.

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You guys are all so 200IQ when it comes to Balance, why don't you design your own Game.I rather not hope ArenaNet take Feedback from the Majority of the Community into consideration.In fact, 99% of the Community doesn't have a clue when it comes to Balance and META, and the top 1% that does, those are the people ArenaNet should communicate with regarding Balance and Meta shifts/changes.

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Just restore 2 dodges and remove energy sigil lmao

because removing a sigil because of one elite spec is a good idea, yeah no.

No but removing a sigil which is used by every single class for years is, however. Go on godsofpvp and look for yourself.

certain classes have better defensive options available to them than others, that's where sigil of energy makes up for it. other classes rely on dodge effects and make use of them that way. you just have to balance the on dodge effects well enough and it won't be a problem. energy sigil was nerfed from 50% to 25% already so it's not a problem anymore, just a good general sigil like cleansing too.
  1. Every class uses it for years
  2. It makes counting dodges unreliable for no reason (u cant tell if they have sigil or not)
  3. Makes some dodge mechanics aids, prominently mirage cloak, explosive entrance, prenerf warrior dodge
  4. The argument that "certain classes need it" is a bad one just as it was for sigil of agility. It is a crutch.
  5. Yes cleansing is the 2nd best sigil

"u cant tell if they have sigil or not""Every class uses it for years"

Do you care to make some sense or think before you actually write a point that you invalid with a previous one?

" It makes counting dodges unreliable for no reason"So is Vigor, yet you don't request to have that Boon removed from the game.

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@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

yes, mesmer really needs that 500 dmg from torment from maim the disillusioned. kek.if you dont understand the class at all, dont give rework ideas FFS. you are not the one that will be playing the stupid shit you come up with

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

yes, mesmer really needs that 500 dmg from torment from maim the disillusioned. kek.if you dont understand the class at all, dont give rework ideas kitten. you are not the one that will be playing the stupid kitten you come up with

it's around 2k torment damage, but you don't seem to care anyway. "kek".i play everything these days, so yes, i would actually be playing it. there is nothing wrong with my rework as it fixes multiple issues (not all ofc) mirage has and pushes it more in the direction of what condi mesmer was and should be again.

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@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

yes, mesmer really needs that 500 dmg from torment from maim the disillusioned. kek.if you dont understand the class at all, dont give rework ideas kitten. you are not the one that will be playing the stupid kitten you come up with

it's around 2k torment damage, but you don't seem to care anyway. "kek".i play everything these days, so yes, i would actually be playing it. there is nothing wrong with my rework as it fixes multiple issues (not all ofc) mirage has and pushes it more in the direction of what condi mesmer was and should be again.

I care plenty, im just sick of these stupid ideas people are throwing. You will fix 1 problem and introduce 3 others, way to go fam.as for the torment, yes perect scenarion = 2k dmg, mesmer CANT function without that 2k man

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

yes, mesmer really needs that 500 dmg from torment from maim the disillusioned. kek.if you dont understand the class at all, dont give rework ideas kitten. you are not the one that will be playing the stupid kitten you come up with

it's around 2k torment damage, but you don't seem to care anyway. "kek".i play everything these days, so yes, i would actually be playing it. there is nothing wrong with my rework as it fixes multiple issues (not all ofc) mirage has and pushes it more in the direction of what condi mesmer was and should be again.

I care plenty, im just sick of these stupid ideas people are throwing. You will fix 1 problem and introduce 3 others, way to go fam.as for the torment, yes perect scenarion = 2k dmg, mesmer CANT function without that 2k man

of course changing stuff can introduce new problems, that's why you iron them out afterwards. but you need a good foundation first and you can't leave mirage with that crippled design it currently has. just going back to having 2 dodges with mirage cloak won't fix it either, because a) it will reintroduce the same problems again and b) if it's too strong you need to nerf everything around it so hard that the rest won't feel good anymore. you want to get it right to a point where it feels good to play (and play against to some extent), everything else after that is just numerical tweaking.

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@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

yes, mesmer really needs that 500 dmg from torment from maim the disillusioned. kek.if you dont understand the class at all, dont give rework ideas kitten. you are not the one that will be playing the stupid kitten you come up with

it's around 2k torment damage, but you don't seem to care anyway. "kek".i play everything these days, so yes, i would actually be playing it. there is nothing wrong with my rework as it fixes multiple issues (not all ofc) mirage has and pushes it more in the direction of what condi mesmer was and should be again.

I care plenty, im just sick of these stupid ideas people are throwing. You will fix 1 problem and introduce 3 others, way to go fam.as for the torment, yes perect scenarion = 2k dmg, mesmer CANT function without that 2k man

of course changing stuff can introduce new problems, that's why you iron them out afterwards. but you need a good foundation first and you can't leave mirage with that crippled design it currently has. just going back to having 2 dodges with mirage cloak won't fix it either, because a) it will reintroduce the same problems again and b) if it's too strong you need to nerf everything around it so hard that the rest won't feel good anymore. you want to get it right to a point where it feels good to play (and play against to some extent), everything else after that is just numerical tweaking.

its very easy to fix IH problem, you dont have to swing with sledgehammer to do it.something small like stopping de from working with ih alone would propably be enough, but hey, lets fucking remake entire espec instead :D

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

yes, mesmer really needs that 500 dmg from torment from maim the disillusioned. kek.if you dont understand the class at all, dont give rework ideas kitten. you are not the one that will be playing the stupid kitten you come up with

it's around 2k torment damage, but you don't seem to care anyway. "kek".i play everything these days, so yes, i would actually be playing it. there is nothing wrong with my rework as it fixes multiple issues (not all ofc) mirage has and pushes it more in the direction of what condi mesmer was and should be again.

I care plenty, im just sick of these stupid ideas people are throwing. You will fix 1 problem and introduce 3 others, way to go fam.as for the torment, yes perect scenarion = 2k dmg, mesmer CANT function without that 2k man

of course changing stuff can introduce new problems, that's why you iron them out afterwards. but you need a good foundation first and you can't leave mirage with that crippled design it currently has. just going back to having 2 dodges with mirage cloak won't fix it either, because a) it will reintroduce the same problems again and b) if it's too strong you need to nerf everything around it so hard that the rest won't feel good anymore. you want to get it right to a point where it feels good to play (and play against to some extent), everything else after that is just numerical tweaking.

its very easy to fix IH problem, you dont have to swing with sledgehammer to do it.something small like stopping de from working with ih alone would propably be enough, but hey, lets kitten remake entire espec instead :D

and what does that fix? i'd prefer having the damage on the mesmer instead of on the clones as it's not a pet build. you can even buff the ambush damage if it's too low. and when it comes to clone survivability because of the mirage cloak, buff clone health. not like other mesmer builds don't have clone survivability issues, yet lockinga big part of it behind mirage is a bad idea. a clone has 2433 base health, which is ridiculously low.

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@Jekkt.6045 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:yet condi mirage rarely uses shatters...

It was at this moment I realized you had no clue what you were talking about. I really hope Anet doesn't look for advice from people on the forums who don't understand the very basics of their class.

say what you want, it's still the correct way to rework mirage from a design standpoint. obviously i was wrong about the part with shattering, but the only reason mirage uses shatters at all right now is because you can't spam ambushes anymore and because ambushes have been nerfed hard on most weapons, so you need that damage, especially the torment from maim the disillusioned.

it still doesn't change the fact that mirage cloak on dodge was a terrible idea and as a consequence they lost 1 dodge to "balance" it.

The more you keep going the more you show you really don't know what you're talking about. Mirage uses shatter because it is an EXTREMELY important part of it's kit (that goes for all Mesmer specs), not because of 1 dodge. F1 is burst, torment application and vigor. F2 is your huge burst attack, tons of confusion PLUS blindness PLUS torment PLUS vigor. F3 is your interrupt, stop people from rezzing, healing, performing important actions and vigor. F4 is your invuln - INSANELY important, with torment and vigor. All of these a massive part of your kit w/ or w/o IH.

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