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Please stop asking LI for strike missions


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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"DutchRiders.2871" said:I wanna play with people that raid hence I ask for LI.

If strikes go non existent I dont care, they are not that interesting. If they get more easy, that means more easy loot.

"I only want to play with the cool kids" is why raids were abandoned by the developers.

But those "kewl kids" happens due the lamest class design game has/had aand awfull skill balance >_>, if classes were putted trough more thinking we could have more kewl kids playing whathever they want and having decent setuups to raid rather than gimmicks and find glitches to make the raids.

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@yann.1946 said:You are ignoring the fact that if content gets harder veery slowly, people will get mechanically better eventually without feeling forced to. People only leave if they feel that the gap is to big. It's always about relative difficulty.Giving new players an insta-80 item won't help them learn if content gradually becomes more difficult from level one.

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We always look at this problem from one perspective. Let us switch the roles for once:

  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have it

Would you consider that a toxic behavior and unfair treatment?Would you rather be judged by your skill, experience and behavior than just kicked due to some prejudices?Would you consider reporting a person who does this?Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?Would you start an argument with the leader of the group after getting kicked? Telling your KP/LI say nothing about your behavior in the group?Would you complain about such an experience in your guild/discord or even on the forums?

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:We always look at this problem from one perspective. Let us switch the roles for once:

  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have it

Would you consider that a toxic behavior and unfair treatment?Would you rather be judged by your skill, experience and behavior than just kicked due to some prejudices?Would you consider reporting a person who does this?Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?Would you start an argument with the leader of the group after getting kicked? Telling your KP/LI say nothing about your behavior in the group?Would you complain about such an experience in your guild/discord or even on the forums?Here's another perspective:Why is nobody making a squad this way?Why aren't you doing it?

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:We always look at this problem from one perspective. Let us switch the roles for once:

  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have it

Would you consider that a toxic behavior and unfair treatment?Would you rather be judged by your skill, experience and behavior than just kicked due to some prejudices?Would you consider reporting a person who does this?Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?Would you start an argument with the leader of the group after getting kicked? Telling your KP/LI say nothing about your behavior in the group?Would you complain about such an experience in your guild/discord or even on the forums?

I just wouldn't have joined a party clearly not designed for me in the first place since its stated in the LFG I am not the target audience.

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@"tim.4596" said:Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.

It's damaging for both party.

It's either gonna continue to split the community in two between those who can do "harder" strike missions and those who can do "easier" strike missions, and as we saw with both fractals and raids, that content is just gonna be non-existent in the long run.

So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI. If you also know what you're doing as a commander there is no scenario in which you can't adapt to the situation, a good team comp should make up for whatever group you have. And low damage just means you won't get gold at the end of the strike.

I can understand the frustration of how much time it might take if you don't ask for LI but, if you value your time then just go with a group full of guildies.

The latest that just got released on Tuesday with the new episode is another "easy mode" strike, and if this continues strike is gonna go back to shiver peak level.

No, Tim! I want to get them done with people who know how to dodge. I do not want to spend 1hour or an eternity teaching people who are well in their masteries that there is such a thing as dodging red AOE. I learned how to dodge 4 years ago when I started this game. I had 0 hold handing. I just was very interested in the game and how I could improve and I did. Got into a raid guild, tested with beginners, learned raids, and then found a static, then another one. And now I am at a place where I can dodge red AOEs and perform normally in general content. Nobody taught me anything until I put in the time and willingness and the research. I watched clips of various raids bosses to prepare myself for the mechanics. I deserve to have it easier. I deserve to select the people I play with. And its my experience. It doesn't need to be yours. It's all good. Do you do that? Do you put in the time to learn? Or just come here on the forum to complain? LI requirements in groups doesn't prevent you from learning at your own pace, from playing the game the way you want to. It's all fine. But I am in charge of my game experience. Not you. I don't believe it's the game design that turns people away from harder content. It's the people complaining about things that they are not willing to learn. What exactly is your problem with raiders? They are not cool kids, nobody is here, really. I met great kind raiders, and I met toxic raiders. And I chose to continue with the groups that suited me. I learned fractals, cuz I was interested in more in learning the game than complaining that people were asking for KPs when I had none. Ofc the community is split between skill levels. Why would that even be a problem!? Why are you making into a problem. Not everyone is willing to put in the time to get mechanically good in a game. And why should they. It's a personal choice. Respect that!

"So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI." I believe you have quite the nerve to ask me how I should spend my time in the game, how much and with whom. Make your own groups and enjoy this game at the pace and level you want to. Nothing wrong with that.

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:We always look at this problem from one perspective. Let us switch the roles for once:

  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have it

Would you consider that a toxic behavior and unfair treatment?Would you rather be judged by your skill, experience and behavior than just kicked due to some prejudices?Would you consider reporting a person who does this?Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?Would you start an argument with the leader of the group after getting kicked? Telling your KP/LI say nothing about your behavior in the group?Would you complain about such an experience in your guild/discord or even on the forums?

No arguments from me. You clearly state the group requirements and as someone who does not fit those requirements, it would be my bad if I tried to force my way in. I would simply make an LI only group to play with like minded players.

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@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:We always look at this problem from one perspective. Let us switch the roles for once:

  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have it

Would you consider that a toxic behavior and unfair treatment?

No. I would wonder about the goal of the squad, but that's not my concern. I would simply not join if it's not intended for me.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Would you rather be judged by your skill, experience and behavior than just kicked due to some prejudices?

You are making a leap here and your question is posed in bad faith. If there were better ways to judge player skill BEFORE engaging content, those would see use. No one enjoys having to use LI/KP or similar gating mechanisms. It's a necessity by now given the huge skill gap and repeated experience that a big part of the player base is not good at the game.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Would you consider reporting a person who does this?

No, why would I? It's none of my business if someone wants to make a squad for what ever purpose. As long as there is no breach with say offensive wording like slurs or racial slurs, etc.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?

First off, you are making a very general separation which does not fit . The playerbase is not divided into raiders and non raiders. Even among players who have engaged in raids there are huge differences. You have not yet given a proper definition of what constitutes a "raider or farmer". Is it a player with 1 raid boss kill? Is it a player with 50? Your own proposed LFG is already unclear, compared to the opposite as demanding a certain amount of LI/KP.

Please fix the issue with your proposed LFG first. In case you desire players with absolutely 0 LI/KP, make clear that that is the goal post.

In which case, yes I might not ping my LI, if I had joined the group, which I would not have in the first place. The most direct reason why I would not join is simple (besides the group not wanting me): I would not have faith in this groups performance, would be worried to waste my time and not enjoy the experience.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Would you start an argument with the leader of the group after getting kicked? Telling your KP/LI say nothing about your behavior in the group?

No.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Would you complain about such an experience in your guild/discord or even on the forums?

I would certainly make fun of this yes, but mostly because of the hilarious backwards approach to content. Other than that, honestly: no one would give a kitten.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

@Vilin.8056 said:Here's another perspective:Why is nobody making a squad this way?Why aren't you doing it?

I intend to. Just would like to hear your feedback first.

Please do and let us know how it went.

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have it

Well those that will get kicked by that have more serious issues, like reading comprehension problems, if they join a team specifically asking for no raiders and then they ping their LI/KP it's their own fault for getting kicked. Other than that, it's as simple as joining and not pinging LI/KP even if you have it. Problem solved

Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?

Why would the leader care if someone has LI/KP?

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:
  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have it

Well those that will get kicked by that have more serious issues, like reading comprehension problems, if they join a team specifically asking for no raiders and then they ping their LI/KP it's their own fault for getting kicked. Other than that, it's as simple as joining and not pinging LI/KP even if you have it. Problem solved

Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?

Why would the leader care if someone has LI/KP?

I dont think the reason matters. It could be because they want to players that dont care about builds and/or make a fuss about dps. Whatever the reasoning may be, they have a right to make that group and remove people from it if joiners dont meet said conditions. No matter how silly it sounds they have a right to do it as it doesnt break tos.

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@"Shikaru.7618" said:I dont think the reason matters. It could be because they want to players that dont care about builds and/or make a fuss about dps. Whatever the reasoning may be, they have a right to make that group and remove people from it if joiners dont meet said conditions. No matter how silly it sounds they have a right to do it as it doesnt break tos.

Wait. You mean a person that has KP/LI cannot play without caring about builds and dps? News to me, is KP/LI a contagious virus that forces a player to play in a specific way? It's not like you can enforce it anyway, it takes only a bit of intelligence to simply not ping KP/LI if you join such a group, when the requirement is NOT to ping something it's by default filled. They have the right to make any group they want, it's just that the part of "don't have KP/LI" cannot be enforced

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Shikaru.7618" said:I dont think the reason matters. It could be because they want to players that dont care about builds and/or make a fuss about dps. Whatever the reasoning may be, they have a right to make that group and remove people from it if joiners dont meet said conditions. No matter how silly it sounds they have a right to do it as it doesnt break tos.

Wait. You mean a person that has KP/LI cannot play without caring about builds and dps? News to me, is KP/LI a contagious virus that forces a player to play in a specific way? It's not like you can enforce it anyway, it takes only a bit of intelligence to simply not ping KP/LI if you join such a group, when the requirement is NOT to ping something it's by default filled. They have the right to make any group they want, it's just that the part of "don't have KP/LI" cannot be enforced

You're right it's near impossible to enforce. No arguments from me on the lack of logical soundness of this type of group. However it's still their right to make such a group and remove anyone that doesnt fit the conditions, assuming anyone is dumb enough to actually ping.

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@Shikaru.7618 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:I dont think the reason matters. It could be because they want to players that dont care about builds and/or make a fuss about dps. Whatever the reasoning may be, they have a right to make that group and remove people from it if joiners dont meet said conditions. No matter how silly it sounds they have a right to do it as it doesnt break tos.

Wait. You mean a person that has KP/LI cannot play without caring about builds and dps? News to me, is KP/LI a contagious virus that forces a player to play in a specific way? It's not like you can enforce it anyway, it takes only a bit of intelligence to simply not ping KP/LI if you join such a group, when the requirement is NOT to ping something it's by default filled. They have the right to make any group they want, it's just that the part of "don't have KP/LI" cannot be enforced

You're right it's near impossible to enforce. No arguments from me on the lack of logical soundness of this type of group. However it's still their right to make such a group and remove anyone that doesnt fit the conditions, assuming anyone is dumb enough to actually ping.Of course. It doesn't matter whether the requirements are ridiculous or reasonable, all should be adhered to equally. If you don't like one, don't join.

The raid/strike LFG requirements are not, and never were a real problem. If someone doesn't like them, they should rather start complaining about the content that makes them seem reasonable to at least some players.

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:We always look at this problem from one perspective. Let us switch the roles for once:

  • We start a LFG with "relaxed run, starters, no rush, no skip, NO RAIDERS OR FARMERS"
  • Once the party/squad gets filled, ask for LI and other raid related KP and then kick those people who have itNon raiders won't have Kp/Li to link. But for those who joined, its best to inform them to leave/kick the moment they joined than wait till the party is filled. Wasting each others time and getting their hopes up, which may cause displease :sweat_smile:.

Would you consider that a toxic behavior and unfair treatment?No, if there's a valid reason. As stated "No raiders" (slightly misleading/easily missed). Might vary depending on player(s) and consequences if not handled properly. There is also the issue of sooner or later, everyone in the group will earn Li; what then? :sweat_smile:

Would you rather be judged by your skill, experience and behavior than just kicked due to some prejudices?The first. But its what comes after that matters, usually.

Would you consider reporting a person who does this?Unlikely, but providing the reason for it would help. Mostly due to miscommunication, slightly misleading or didn't read LFG properly.

Would you consider lying about the questions from the party/squad leader, to stay in the group? Just not linking any of your KP/LI although you stack it in your inventory?Would you start an argument with the leader of the group after getting kicked? Telling your KP/LI say nothing about your behavior in the group?No. If there's conflict, preferred it to be settled and done with, beforehand. Imagine it will feel unsettling for the entire process, no thank you.

Would you complain about such an experience in your guild/discord or even on the forums?Might be brought up as a discussion among friends and guildies to share their views on it. No reason not to(some might find it weird, but could be norm nothing to be ashamed of) and sharing information with them to be prepared(if encounter such group).

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@Maat.3940 said:

@"tim.4596" said:Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.

It's damaging for both party.

It's either gonna continue to split the community in two between those who can do "harder" strike missions and those who can do "easier" strike missions, and as we saw with both fractals and raids, that content is just gonna be non-existent in the long run.

So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI. If you also know what you're doing as a commander there is no scenario in which you can't adapt to the situation, a good team comp should make up for whatever group you have. And low damage just means you won't get gold at the end of the strike.

I can understand the frustration of how much time it might take if you don't ask for LI but, if you value your time then just go with a group full of guildies.

The latest that just got released on Tuesday with the new episode is another "easy mode" strike, and if this continues strike is gonna go back to shiver peak level.

No, Tim! I want to get them done with people who know how to dodge
.
I do not want to spend 1hour or an eternity teaching people who are well in their masteries that there is such a thing as dodging red AOE.
I learned how to dodge 4 years ago when I started this game. I had 0 hold handing. I just was very interested in the game and how I could improve and I did. Got into a raid guild, tested with beginners, learned raids, and then found a static, then another one. And now I am at a place where I can dodge red AOEs and perform normally in general content. Nobody taught me anything until I put in the time and willingness and the research. I watched clips of various raids bosses to prepare myself for the mechanics. I deserve to have it easier. I deserve to select the people I play with. And its my experience. It doesn't need to be yours. It's all good. Do you do that? Do you put in the time to learn? Or just come here on the forum to complain? LI requirements in groups doesn't prevent you from learning at your own pace, from playing the game the way you want to. It's all fine. But I am in charge of my game experience. Not you. I don't believe it's the game design that turns people away from harder content. It's the people complaining about things that they are not willing to learn. What exactly is your problem with raiders? They are not cool kids, nobody is here, really. I met great kind raiders, and I met toxic raiders. And I chose to continue with the groups that suited me. I learned fractals, cuz I was interested in more in learning the game than complaining that people were asking for KPs when I had none. Ofc the community is split between skill levels. Why would that even be a problem!? Why are you making into a problem. Not everyone is willing to put in the time to get mechanically good in a game. And why should they. It's a personal choice. Respect that!

"So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI." I believe you have quite the nerve to ask me how I should spend my time in the game, how much and with whom. Make your own groups and enjoy this game at the pace and level you want to. Nothing wrong with that.

Yes, I've sadly realised after writing this post and reading most comments, that people are entitled to value their time and thus only want to do strikes with LI group.

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Please stop blaming on the community what is caused by the bad construction of the game.

Why are you asking to players that only wish to clear bosses decently and if possible quickly, to take by the hand and teach newer players, people that will mostly not listen anyway ? Playing this game isn't a job, it's a leisure. Don't try to force people into doing stuff that they aren't here for.

The people whose jobs it is to make the progression smooth so that players learn to play and access content are the devs, not the other players. Some of the playerbase are actually taking time to teach and stuff (Raid-teaching guilds and communities etc), but that is merely something that they are kind enough to do on their free time.So leave the people who want to play with others of similar level to have decent kills to their LFGs, and if that is not what you seek, do respect them and do not click to join their groups. It's as simple as that.

It's not because /you/ only want to clear things and do not care how much time it takes and how the kill is performed that your standards applies to all players. Some people don't have much time to play, other players would rather restart the boss if the kill isn't clean enough because they like when it's well done, etc ...

People seem to believe "Elitists" hate new players, but the truth is that most "Elitists" only dislike people that lie, fake stuff to get in the groups, do not ever try to learn anything and generally believe that other players are there solely to carry them into the content without doing any efforts.

Most people I know would be happy to answer questions or even take time to help someone at the golem or on gearing and build advices provided they are asked politely in PMs and know the answers. Aslong as people are genuinly motivated to learn, content isn't hard to get into. It might be a tad long, but it isn't at all if you compare it with gearing time and stuff like that on other MMOs.

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@"Antioche.7034" said:Please stop blaming on the community what is caused by the bad construction of the game.

Why are you asking to players that only wish to clear bosses decently and if possible quickly, to take by the hand and teach newer players, people that will mostly not listen anyway ? Playing this game isn't a job, it's a leisure. Don't try to force people into doing stuff that they aren't here for.

The people whose jobs it is to make the progression smooth so that players learn to play and access content are the devs, not the other players. Some of the playerbase are actually taking time to teach and stuff (Raid-teaching guilds and communities etc), but that is merely something that they are kind enough to do on their free time.So leave the people who want to play with others of similar level to have decent kills to their LFGs, and if that is not what you seek, do respect them and do not click to join their groups. It's as simple as that.

It's not because /you/ only want to clear things and do not care how much time it takes and how the kill is performed that your standards applies to all players. Some people don't have much time to play, other players would rather restart the boss if the kill isn't clean enough because they like when it's well done, etc ...

People seem to believe "Elitists" hate new players, but the truth is that most "Elitists" only dislike people that lie, fake stuff to get in the groups, do not ever try to learn anything and generally believe that other players are there solely to carry them into the content without doing any efforts.

Most people I know would be happy to answer questions or even take time to help someone at the golem or on gearing and build advices provided they are asked politely in PMs and know the answers. Aslong as people are genuinly motivated to learn, content isn't hard to get into. It might be a tad long, but it isn't at all if you compare it with gearing time and stuff like that on other MMOs.

Exactly that. If someone asks I will take time to explain. But I dont want to carry someone who doesnt try.

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@tim.4596 said:

@tim.4596 said:Asking li for strike missions, no matter which strike missions you're planning on doing just doesn't make sense. Strike missions are supposed to be an introduction to raid and not the other way around.

It's damaging for both party.

It's either gonna continue to split the community in two between those who can do "harder" strike missions and those who can do "easier" strike missions, and as we saw with both fractals and raids, that content is just gonna be non-existent in the long run.

So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI. If you also know what you're doing as a commander there is no scenario in which you can't adapt to the situation, a good team comp should make up for whatever group you have. And low damage just means you won't get gold at the end of the strike.

I can understand the frustration of how much time it might take if you don't ask for LI but, if you value your time then just go with a group full of guildies.

The latest that just got released on Tuesday with the new episode is another "easy mode" strike, and if this continues strike is gonna go back to shiver peak level.

No, Tim! I want to get them done with people who know how to dodge
.
I do not want to spend 1hour or an eternity teaching people who are well in their masteries that there is such a thing as dodging red AOE.
I learned how to dodge 4 years ago when I started this game. I had 0 hold handing. I just was very interested in the game and how I could improve and I did. Got into a raid guild, tested with beginners, learned raids, and then found a static, then another one. And now I am at a place where I can dodge red AOEs and perform normally in general content. Nobody taught me anything until I put in the time and willingness and the research. I watched clips of various raids bosses to prepare myself for the mechanics. I deserve to have it easier. I deserve to select the people I play with. And its my experience. It doesn't need to be yours. It's all good. Do you do that? Do you put in the time to learn? Or just come here on the forum to complain? LI requirements in groups doesn't prevent you from learning at your own pace, from playing the game the way you want to. It's all fine. But I am in charge of my game experience. Not you. I don't believe it's the game design that turns people away from harder content. It's the people complaining about things that they are not willing to learn. What exactly is your problem with raiders? They are not cool kids, nobody is here, really. I met great kind raiders, and I met toxic raiders. And I chose to continue with the groups that suited me. I learned fractals, cuz I was interested in more in learning the game than complaining that people were asking for KPs when I had none. Ofc the community is split between skill levels. Why would that even be a problem!? Why are you making into a problem. Not everyone is willing to put in the time to get mechanically good in a game. And why should they. It's a personal choice. Respect that!

"So no matter how much longer you take to clear Boneskinner or Whisper of Jormag with a random group, just don't ask for LI." I believe you have quite the nerve to ask me how I should spend my time in the game, how much and with whom. Make your own groups and enjoy this game at the pace and level you want to. Nothing wrong with that.

Yes, I've sadly realised after writing this post and reading most comments, that people are entitled to value their time and thus only want to do strikes with LI group.

It's ok! I think it's just important to enjoy our time in the game the way we can. <3

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  • 3 months later...

If Strike Missions have the same fate as Raids , create a new ''format'' rather than waiting to be fixed on its own .Nurture a good Fundation and population and if they decide they can demand Strike to be re-ignited

The LFG part , automatically put you as a leader(without knowing) if you are in a area between the Boss and Map , just like the Jumping Puzzle . (default faction)And somewhere in the LFG there's a small asterisk* for Experienced Groups, where is pressed, it loads the ''manual'' LFG with each group requirements

Or people list themselves in the default LFG , a baseline message will ocupy the space with ''Hello - Welcome'' offer more rewards , but its more slow to be completed . While the pros LFG groups are hiden by the asterisk*

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Excuse me for saying, but Strike Missions are meant to be a bridge to Raids. Requiring LI for a game mode that was meant to introduce less experienced players to step into raids just seems ridiculous. Not to mention LI’s are obtainable only through raids. In my opinion, if you want your squad to have LI, go do raids and leave people in strikes alone. Just my two cents.

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