Necromancer shroud is insanely strong and Condition damage outperforms power by a lot

[Dadnir.5038]

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:The purpose of the power damage nerf in sPvP/WvW was to increase the time-to-kill, conditions naturally take time to grow strong enough to kill while power is more immediate. That's why ANet nerfed power but not condition. Nobody drop 20 bleed/torment in a single hit, and even if they did, it still would need a few seconds to kill it's foe. That's the gist of it, don't look to far in what ANet does, some players posted how they thought the issue was the TTK in PvP and ANet just increased the TTK to please them, they didn't touched what already had a high enough TTK.

That’s far from the reality in Guild Wars 2, we have condition builds able to deal more than 20k damage within 3 seconds.Condition builds in Guild Wars 2 can be more effective than power builds at bursting down opponents.

Right now conditions are far more effective than power both as burst damage and sustained damage, the last one often comes with high defence too. The current situation is probably caused by an oversight from the developers, and should be addressed if the developers are still willing to nerf the burst damage potential (they failed when they nerfed power damage coefficients).

Dealing with conditions is also way more difficult than dealing with direct damage. They can also debilitate enemies. It is not surprising that many people hate them.

Keep in mind that it take longer to apply conditions and conditions are over time effect. You have Power builds that similarly allow you to deal 20k damage in 3 seconds, why hating only on the condition one? Apart from passive power damage reduction most of the way to deal with power damage also deal with the skills that apply condition damage. Truth be told, there is more way to deal with condition damage than there is to deal with power damage (contrary to your statement).

People don't like fighting condi build because they don't like to have to keep track on how many conditions are on them. They like to think simply in the middle of the fight: "I got hit, it hurt but at least I don't need to bother with the aftermath." It's understandable, nobody like to have more worry than necessary, conditions add a layer of complexity to the fight that a lot of players would rather not have to deal with.

[Black Storm.6974]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:The purpose of the power damage nerf in sPvP/WvW was to increase the time-to-kill, conditions naturally take time to grow strong enough to kill while power is more immediate. That's why ANet nerfed power but not condition. Nobody drop 20 bleed/torment in a single hit, and even if they did, it still would need a few seconds to kill it's foe. That's the gist of it, don't look to far in what ANet does, some players posted how they thought the issue was the TTK in PvP and ANet just increased the TTK to please them, they didn't touched what already had a high enough TTK.

That’s far from the reality in Guild Wars 2, we have condition builds able to deal more than 20k damage within 3 seconds.Condition builds in Guild Wars 2 can be more effective than power builds at bursting down opponents.

Right now conditions are far more effective than power both as burst damage and sustained damage, the last one often comes with high defence too. The current situation is probably caused by an oversight from the developers, and should be addressed if the developers are still willing to nerf the burst damage potential (they failed when they nerfed power damage coefficients).

Dealing with conditions is also way more difficult than dealing with direct damage. They can also debilitate enemies. It is not surprising that many people hate them.

Keep in mind that it take longer to apply conditions and conditions are over time effect. You have Power builds that similarly allow you to deal 20k damage in 3 seconds, why hating only on the condition one? Apart from passive power damage reduction most of the way to deal with power damage also deal with the skills that apply condition damage. Truth be told, there is more way to deal with condition damage than there is to deal with power damage (contrary to your statement).

People don't like fighting condi build because they don't like to have to keep track on how many conditions are on them. They like to think simply in the middle of the fight: "I got hit, it hurt but at least I don't need to bother with the aftermath." It's understandable, nobody like to have more worry than necessary, conditions add a layer of complexity to the fight that a lot of players would rather not have to deal with.

My statement was that dealing with conditions is way harder than dealing with direct damage.This is not in contrast with your statement about the presence of more ways to deal with condition damage.

Conditions are also not only damage.

[Josiah.2967]

Honestly all condition damage needs a needs a nerf in WVW. Once that is brought in line with Power, this will be a none issue.

[Nimon.7840]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Taril.8619 said:Personally, something I don't understand is many power skills have reduced damage in PvP/WvW compared to PvE.

Meanwhile, Conditions, with exception of Torment (On a target standing still only) and Confusion (Which will actually proc in PvP/WvW) all conditions deal the same damage across all modes.

So, people dropping stacks of 5/10/20 Bleeding/Torment or 5-10 stacks of Burning are doing the same damage as they would in PvE. While power builds are taking hits across many (If not all) of their skills from their PvE potentials.

The purpose of the power damage nerf in sPvP/WvW was to increase the time-to-kill, conditions naturally take time to grow strong enough to kill while power is more immediate. That's why ANet nerfed power but not condition. Nobody drop 20 bleed/torment in a single hit, and even if they did, it still would need a few seconds to kill it's foe. That's the gist of it, don't look to far in what ANet does, some players posted how they thought the issue was the TTK in PvP and ANet just increased the TTK to please them, they didn't touched what already had a high enough TTK.

But that's how it works right now, revenants hitting you, applying 6 stacks of torment per hit. Same goes for guards with their burning. And while you kinda can counter torment at least a bit by not walking, burning will take your life.Burn guards and condo revs are both way too strong, at least in wvw.Especially burn can easily kill you in 2 seconds. Great increase of ttk. Btw, ranger still able to oneshot people in wvw.Thief still doing 9-14k hits out of stealth...

And a lot more way to strong things, but yet, nothing done to change this.

[ASP.8093]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:At the end of the day isn't the biggest problem that players don't want to die but do want their enemy to die? Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way..true balance means that you can lose any fight.

Nerfing condis will make Bunker builds even stronger than they are now, because its literally the only way to bypass defenses like Protection and extremely high armor ratings, and Poison is the only viable counter to healing.

That's what people don't understand when they keep asking for nerfs. It won't help, it'll make things worse.

I think part of the discontent(†) is that it creates an environment where those bunkers are able to load up on conditions to fight each other while Toughness/Vitality/Protection/sustain keeps them pretty safe from bursty builds.

† - For the sake of fairness, I will note that there will always be discontent about something, though, and a great way to completely ruin the game is to uncritically listen to all of it. So any "solution" here does need to be studied very carefully.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Nimon.7840 said:But that's how it works right now, revenants hitting you, applying 6 stacks of torment per hit. Same goes for guards with their burning. And while you kinda can counter torment at least a bit by not walking, burning will take your life.Burn guards and condo revs are both way too strong, at least in wvw.Especially burn can easily kill you in 2 seconds. Great increase of ttk. Btw, ranger still able to oneshot people in wvw.Thief still doing 9-14k hits out of stealth...

And a lot more way to strong things, but yet, nothing done to change this.

You can block or evade this 6 torment hits just like you can do it with a power attack. Look, on one side you got a guy that hit you for 2k instantly (2k dps) and on the other side you got a guy that hit you for 2k over 6 seconds (333 dps). At 1 hit/s In 3 seconds, the first guy dealt 6k on you, the second guy dealt 1998 damage. That's how it work. The issue of the one that complain about condition is that when they react they've carelessly taken 6 hits from the condi build and realise that they take 2k damage per seconds due to conditions, they are down 7k health at this point and they can't catch up their breath by stepping back or blocking/evading at that moment because the damage will continue to tic. They had 6 seconds to react but when they realise it it's to late.

[Nimon.7840]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:But that's how it works right now, revenants hitting you, applying 6 stacks of torment per hit. Same goes for guards with their burning. And while you kinda can counter torment at least a bit by not walking, burning will take your life.Burn guards and condo revs are both way too strong, at least in wvw.Especially burn can easily kill you in 2 seconds. Great increase of ttk. Btw, ranger still able to oneshot people in wvw.Thief still doing 9-14k hits out of stealth...

And a lot more way to strong things, but yet, nothing done to change this.

You can block or evade this 6 torment hits just like you can do it with a power attack. Look, on one side you got a guy that hit you for 2k instantly (2k dps) and on the other side you got a guy that hit you for 2k over 6 seconds (333 dps). At 1 hit/s In 3 seconds, the first guy dealt 6k on you, the second guy dealt 1998 damage. That's how it work. The issue of the one that complain about condition is that when they react they've carelessly taken 6 hits from the condi build and realise that they take 2k damage per seconds due to conditions, they are down 7k health at this point and they can't catch up their breath by stepping back or blocking/evading at that moment because the damage will continue to tic. They had 6 seconds to react but when they realise it it's to late.

I don't complain about conditions. I complain about how easy it is for some classes to apply conditions.And how bursty these builds deal their condition damage that is meant to ramp up and kill slowly.But I guess that's a mistake that was made in order to make some builds viable for pve.

[Josiah.2967]

I mean...other professions are performing better top tier. shrug> @Nimon.7840 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Taril.8619 said:Personally, something I don't understand is many power skills have reduced damage in PvP/WvW compared to PvE.

Meanwhile, Conditions, with exception of Torment (On a target standing still only) and Confusion (Which will actually proc in PvP/WvW) all conditions deal the same damage across all modes.

So, people dropping stacks of 5/10/20 Bleeding/Torment or 5-10 stacks of Burning are doing the same damage as they would in PvE. While power builds are taking hits across many (If not all) of their skills from their PvE potentials.

The purpose of the power damage nerf in sPvP/WvW was to increase the time-to-kill, conditions naturally take time to grow strong enough to kill while power is more immediate. That's why ANet nerfed power but not condition. Nobody drop 20 bleed/torment in a single hit, and even if they did, it still would need a few seconds to kill it's foe. That's the gist of it, don't look to far in what ANet does, some players posted how they thought the issue was the TTK in PvP and ANet just increased the TTK to please them, they didn't touched what already had a high enough TTK.

But that's how it works right now, revenants hitting you, applying 6 stacks of torment per hit. Same goes for guards with their burning. And while you kinda can counter torment at least a bit by not walking, burning will take your life.Burn guards and condo revs are both way too strong, at least in wvw.Especially burn can easily kill you in 2 seconds. Great increase of ttk. Btw, ranger still able to oneshot people in wvw.Thief still doing 9-14k hits out of stealth...

And a lot more way to strong things, but yet, nothing done to change this.

Conditions are just to strong right now. No point in a power spec for WVW/sPVP. Some power specs were even over nerfed compared to other power specs.

I am more scared of a Guardian than I am a Necromancers....

[Tman.6349]

@Taril.8619 said:Personally, something I don't understand is many power skills have reduced damage in PvP/WvW compared to PvE.

Meanwhile, Conditions, with exception of Torment (On a target standing still only) and Confusion (Which will actually proc in PvP/WvW) all conditions deal the same damage across all modes.

So, people dropping stacks of 5/10/20 Bleeding/Torment or 5-10 stacks of Burning are doing the same damage as they would in PvE. While power builds are taking hits across many (If not all) of their skills from their PvE potentials.

Except for the part where you take actual stat caps into account. Condi damage in PvE/WvW (don't compare WvW to PvP) and PvP aren't close at all. Just like it would be silly if power builds could do their same 39k dps in PvP. Cutting EXPERTISE WAS THE COMPARABLE NERF. Condi lost a lot of damage too. Run vitality and cleanses OP.

[Yoci.2481]

@ASP.8093 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:At the end of the day isn't the biggest problem that players don't want to die but do want their enemy to die? Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way..true balance means that you can lose any fight.

Nerfing condis will make Bunker builds even stronger than they are now, because its literally the only way to bypass defenses like Protection and extremely high armor ratings, and Poison is the only viable counter to healing.

That's what people don't understand when they keep asking for nerfs. It won't help, it'll make things worse.

I think part of the discontent(†) is that it creates an environment where those bunkers are able to load up on conditions to fight each other while Toughness/Vitality/Protection/sustain keeps them pretty safe from bursty builds.

† - For the sake of fairness, I will note that there will always be discontent about

something

, though, and a great way to completely ruin the game is to uncritically listen to all of it. So any "solution" here does need to be studied very carefully.

I think this is true. Condition builds don't rely on many offensive stats, usually just condition damage is enough. Expertise is just a little bonus, because the hard hitting conditions will often be cleansed before they run out naturally. That leaves a lot of room for defensive stats. Power builds on the other hand have three offensive stats they want to maximize, every increase in defensive stats comes at a noticeable dps cost.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Yoci.2481 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:At the end of the day isn't the biggest problem that players don't want to die but do want their enemy to die? Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way..true balance means that you can lose any fight.

Nerfing condis will make Bunker builds even stronger than they are now, because its literally the only way to bypass defenses like Protection and extremely high armor ratings, and Poison is the only viable counter to healing.

That's what people don't understand when they keep asking for nerfs. It won't help, it'll make things worse.

I think part of the discontent(†) is that it creates an environment where those bunkers are able to load up on conditions to fight each other while Toughness/Vitality/Protection/sustain keeps them pretty safe from bursty builds.

† - For the sake of fairness, I will note that there will always be discontent about

something

, though, and a great way to completely ruin the game is to uncritically listen to all of it. So any "solution" here does need to be studied very carefully.

I think this is true. Condition builds don't rely on many offensive stats, usually just condition damage is enough. Expertise is just a little bonus, because the hard hitting conditions will often be cleansed before they run out naturally. That leaves a lot of room for defensive stats. Power builds on the other hand have three offensive stats they want to maximize, every increase in defensive stats comes at a noticeable dps cost.

To be honest, I've often wondered if this is more of a problem with Power builds than Condition builds. Power builds needing to spec into three stats for decent damage uses up all of your stats (before 4-stat sets and PvP Amulets, at least), and I think that's a flawed design to begin with because there's alot of stat combinations in the game that only have Power (e.g Clerics) and taking those effectively results in the player's DPS being nearly zero, despite that they specifically took a damage stat instead of just going full tank/support.

And then there's all the investment into traits that you need for %damage boosts, often using up all available slots.

This creates extremes that are unhealthy for the game. Like in PvE, the damage desparity between classes, gears and builds is up to 1000%, or about 10x according to ArenaNet, which is also consistent with what you see from arcDPS. That's too much; so it seems more that Power builds have/require too much complexity than that Condition builds don't require enough investment.

An average player should at least be able to do "medium" damage, not 10-20% of what you get for going "all in". What makes Condition builds stand out is an average (or even bad) player can do good damage with them.

[saerni.2584]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Yoci.2481 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:At the end of the day isn't the biggest problem that players don't want to die but do want their enemy to die? Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way..true balance means that you can lose any fight.

Nerfing condis will make Bunker builds even stronger than they are now, because its literally the only way to bypass defenses like Protection and extremely high armor ratings, and Poison is the only viable counter to healing.

That's what people don't understand when they keep asking for nerfs. It won't help, it'll make things worse.

I think part of the discontent(†) is that it creates an environment where those bunkers are able to load up on conditions to fight each other while Toughness/Vitality/Protection/sustain keeps them pretty safe from bursty builds.

† - For the sake of fairness, I will note that there will always be discontent about

something

, though, and a great way to completely ruin the game is to uncritically listen to all of it. So any "solution" here does need to be studied very carefully.

I think this is true. Condition builds don't rely on many offensive stats, usually just condition damage is enough. Expertise is just a little bonus, because the hard hitting conditions will often be cleansed before they run out naturally. That leaves a lot of room for defensive stats. Power builds on the other hand have three offensive stats they want to maximize, every increase in defensive stats comes at a noticeable dps cost.

To be honest, I've often wondered if this is more of a problem with Power builds than Condition builds. Power builds needing to spec into three stats for decent damage uses up all of your stats (before 4-stat sets and PvP Amulets, at least), and I think that's a flawed design to begin with because there's alot of stat combinations in the game that only have Power (e.g Clerics) and taking those effectively results in the player's DPS being nearly zero, despite that they specifically took a damage stat instead of just going full tank/support.

And then there's all the investment into traits that you need for %damage boosts, often using up all available slots.

This creates extremes that are unhealthy for the game. Like in PvE, the damage desparity between classes, gears and builds is up to 1000%, or about 10x according to ArenaNet, which is also consistent with what you see from arcDPS. That's too much; so it seems more that Power builds have/require too much complexity than that Condition builds don't require enough investment.

An average player should at least be able to do "medium" damage, not 10-20% of what you get for going "all in". What makes Condition builds stand out is an average (or even bad) player can do good damage with them.

All builds do hybrid damage to an extent. Power starts at 1k and then increases from there. Condi starts from zero. When you see “Condi” builds spiking large DPS numbers that includes a not insignificant amount of power damage.

If you build out for Dire/TB which is pure defensive stats you will do a lot less damage than a pure Berserker or Grieving set. Obviously, different professions will have varied results here in terms of total damage. Burn guard tends to be seen as an outlier for high per tick damage with just Burn doing that damage. But burn guard is heavily countered by cleanse so it becomes a poor comparison for balance considerations.

The binary framing of “Condi is one stat, Power is three” ignores how “Condi” builds tend to be supplemented by power damage output (with scaling for crit and crit damage).

[ASP.8093]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:To be honest, I've often wondered if this is more of a problem with Power builds than Condition builds. Power builds needing to spec into three stats for decent damage uses up all of your stats (before 4-stat sets and PvP Amulets, at least), and I think that's a flawed design to begin with because there's alot of stat combinations in the game that only have Power (e.g Clerics) and taking those effectively results in the player's DPS being nearly zero, despite that they specifically took a damage stat instead of just going full tank/support.

And then there's all the investment into traits that you need for %damage boosts, often using up all available slots.

This creates extremes that are unhealthy for the game. Like in PvE, the damage desparity between classes, gears and builds is up to 1000%, or about 10x according to ArenaNet, which is also consistent with what you see from arcDPS. That's too much; so it seems more that Power builds have/require too much complexity than that Condition builds don't require enough investment.

An average player should at least be able to do "medium" damage, not 10-20% of what you get for going "all in". What makes Condition builds stand out is an average (or even bad) player can do good damage with them.

Good point!

It does seem like the massive amount of direct-damage modifiers has resulted in baseline Power-damage skills being balanced around that, so they're basically all garbage if you don't max your criticals and stack offensive trait lines.

[pninak.1069]

but a lot of condi applications can be dodged like normal attacks. and you got many ways to reduce dmg of condis such as the use of good combos for auras, food, trait lines together with condi cleanse. an AA might have more dmg on it, but it takes time till it becomes worth it. if you cleanse at the right time normal AA with berserker stats gonna outmatch condi by a longshot. It is just the weird idea that zerkers shouldn't be forced to take condi cleanse, because they want their 1shot meta back in place. condi relies on taking lower amount of dmg and mitigating zerker stats slightly by getting more toughness to reduce the potential spike. and TB stats are banned from pvp anyways, while other amulets for power are still allowed.

condi is OP, bc I don't have the condi cleanse or try to find out the right time to dodge the condibomb.I roam cmirage in wvw and got 2 condi cleanses only and still do decent vs other condibuilds despite all the claims that condis are everywhere.One problem I see with condi is that not all classes can go glassy with condi cleanse. exceptions might be builds like zerk ranger with wilderness survival.

A good example is reaper's shround. you get easily mightstacks and also 20% increased critical dmg with the correct traits. compare dhuumfire to this combo. dhuumfire isn't worth taking, because normal AA with zerker beats dhuumfire.

[Tman.6349]

@ASP.8093 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:To be honest, I've often wondered if this is more of a problem with Power builds than Condition builds. Power builds needing to spec into three stats for decent damage uses up all of your stats (before 4-stat sets and PvP Amulets, at least), and I think that's a flawed design to begin with because there's alot of stat combinations in the game that only have Power (e.g Clerics) and taking those effectively results in the player's DPS being nearly zero, despite that they specifically took a damage stat instead of just going full tank/support.

And then there's all the investment into traits that you need for %damage boosts, often using up all available slots.

This creates extremes that are unhealthy for the game. Like in PvE, the damage desparity between classes, gears and builds is up to 1000%, or about 10x according to ArenaNet, which is also consistent with what you see from arcDPS. That's too much; so it seems more that Power builds have/require too much complexity than that Condition builds don't require enough investment.

An average player should at least be able to do "medium" damage, not 10-20% of what you get for going "all in". What makes Condition builds stand out is an average (or even bad) player can do good damage with them.

Good point!

It does seem like the massive amount of direct-damage modifiers has resulted in baseline Power-damage skills being balanced around that, so they're basically all garbage if you don't max your criticals and stack offensive trait lines.

But doing exactly that is what set the standard in the first place. 35k+ dps is hardly the baseline standard nor do I think it was ever intended to be.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Nimon.7840 said:Burn guards and condo revs are both way too strong, at least in wvw.Especially burn can easily kill you in 2 seconds. Great increase of ttk.It would be interesting to know if power guard can still kill you in 0.2s from 1200 range via delayed shield/hammer skill activations + judge, or if that was nerfed enough.

[saerni.2584]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:Burn guards and condo revs are both way too strong, at least in wvw.Especially burn can easily kill you in 2 seconds. Great increase of ttk.It would be interesting to know if power guard can still kill you in 0.2s from 1200 range via delayed shield/hammer skill activations + judge, or if that was nerfed enough.

Oh condi rev can kill you fast. But so can scrapper on power using nades. Just got one shot from stealth earlier today from exactly that. 1/4 second was all it took.

Sure the scrapper was glass but condi rev isn’t over performing based on condi, it’s strong because even running almost glass it still has 20k hp.

[insistent.8369]

This also why i like to run Tempest auramancer support, it also cleanse a lot of condi for teammate... But i also get focused a lot, specially necro.

[pcgamefreak.5208]

Necromancer shroud is insanely strong and Condition damage outperforms power by a lot

Omg....  This is the most untrue thing I have ever come across yet.  I'm guessing this statement is based on PvE....  Please tell me it's based on PvE....

In PvP/WvW, the Necro Class is the weakest Class in the game, all build types.

Shroud has no hard hitting abilities, it's just more conditional damage, which gets cleansed and reduced so much in WvW(pvp), it's basically a useless mechanic.  I have not seen a Condi Necro kill anything in WvW in ages but I have seen them get slaughtered up by every other Class in WvW.  In fact, they are hunted for sport in WvW.

Conditional damage can NOT outperfom Power because conditions are "DOT", damage over time, which means slow health loss and when you have resistance like many Classes do, that damage is reduced to nothing to cry about and when you add instant cleasning on top of that...  There's no way in the milky-way conditional damage is outperfoming power damage.  Power is instant damage!  Boom!  7k damage right of the top of you health pool!  You can't do that with conditions Buddy!

Just hop on a Meta Built Necro and enter WvW....it won't take long for you to realize just how wrong this statement is.

None of the Necro traits/specs/builds are any good for WvW.  If you want to do the most damage but still get outperformed in damage, then go with the Reaper.  If you want to play support, then go with the Scourge.  There's really no place for Core Necro in WvW because that build focus on Conditions and Conditions are a joke in PvP unless they're coming from a Non-Necro Classs.  Again, all other Classes do what the Necro does but way better.  The "Devs" clearly wanted to destroy the Necro Class and they have.

[ixon.2496]

51 minutes ago, Horace.3184 said:

Necromancer shroud is insanely strong and Condition damage outperforms power by a lot

Omg....  This is the most untrue thing I have ever come across yet.  I'm guessing this statement is based on PvE....  Please tell me it's based on PvE....

In PvP/WvW, the Necro Class is the weakest Class in the game, all build types.

Shroud has no hard hitting abilities, it's just more conditional damage, which gets cleansed and reduced so much in WvW(pvp), it's basically a useless mechanic.  I have not seen a Condi Necro kill anything in WvW in ages but I have seen them get slaughtered up by every other Class in WvW.  In fact, they are hunted for sport in WvW.

Conditional damage can NOT outperfom Power because conditions are "DOT", damage over time, which means slow health loss and when you have resistance like many Classes do, that damage is reduced to nothing to cry about and when you add instant cleasning on top of that...  There's no way in the milky-way conditional damage is outperfoming power damage.  Power is instant damage!  Boom!  7k damage right of the top of you health pool!  You can't do that with conditions Buddy!

Just hop on a Meta Built Necro and enter WvW....it won't take long for you to realize just how wrong this statement is.

None of the Necro traits/specs/builds are any good for WvW.  If you want to do the most damage but still get outperformed in damage, then go with the Reaper.  If you want to play support, then go with the Scourge.  There's really no place for Core Necro in WvW because that build focus on Conditions and Conditions are a joke in PvP unless they're coming from a Non-Necro Classs.  Again, all other Classes do what the Necro does but way better.  The "Devs" clearly wanted to destroy the Necro Class and they have.

This discussion was 3 years ago, nice bump buddy 😂😂

[Gotejjeken.1267]

55 minutes ago, Horace.3184 said:

In PvP/WvW, the Necro Class is the weakest Class in the game, all build types.

Despite this topic probably getting locked once a forum mod is on tomorrow because of the literal 3 year necro (irony), I have to lol at this.

Necro has actually never been the weakest class in the game.  From the old days of core tank to disco scourge to cele harbs of today--there has always been some super strong necro spec.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Thread gets locked in 3.. 2...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

Necromancer shroud is insanely strong and Condition damage outperforms power by a lot

Omg....  This is the most untrue thing I have ever come across yet.  I'm guessing this statement is based on PvE....  Please tell me it's based on PvE....

In PvP/WvW, the Necro Class is the weakest Class in the game, all build types.

Shroud has no hard hitting abilities, it's just more conditional damage, which gets cleansed and reduced so much in WvW(pvp), it's basically a useless mechanic.  I have not seen a Condi Necro kill anything in WvW in ages but I have seen them get slaughtered up by every other Class in WvW.  In fact, they are hunted for sport in WvW.

Conditional damage can NOT outperfom Power because conditions are "DOT", damage over time, which means slow health loss and when you have resistance like many Classes do, that damage is reduced to nothing to cry about and when you add instant cleasning on top of that...  There's no way in the milky-way conditional damage is outperfoming power damage.  Power is instant damage!  Boom!  7k damage right of the top of you health pool!  You can't do that with conditions Buddy!

Just hop on a Meta Built Necro and enter WvW....it won't take long for you to realize just how wrong this statement is.

None of the Necro traits/specs/builds are any good for WvW.  If you want to do the most damage but still get outperformed in damage, then go with the Reaper.  If you want to play support, then go with the Scourge.  There's really no place for Core Necro in WvW because that build focus on Conditions and Conditions are a joke in PvP unless they're coming from a Non-Necro Classs.  Again, all other Classes do what the Necro does but way better.  The "Devs" clearly wanted to destroy the Necro Class and they have.

Can we not necro long dead Necro threads that are no longer relevant?