Isn't Smodur supposed to be the pragmatic one?

[Blocki.4931]

Seems like a typical, war-minded Charr to me. There has never been tolerance for defectors or enemy spies, so why show mercy to them now?

[draxynnic.3719]

@Blocki.4931 said:Seems like a typical, war-minded Charr to me. There has never been tolerance for defectors or enemy spies, so why show mercy to them now?

Because if you kill anyone who might otherwise defect to you, the defections will only ever flow one way. And if you kill all your prisoners, the enemy will fight to the death because they have nothing to lose.

This is a 'hearts and minds' campaign as much as a military one, and Smodur's policy hands that advantage entirely to the Dominion.

[Blocki.4931]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Seems like a typical, war-minded Charr to me. There has never been tolerance for defectors or enemy spies, so why show mercy to them now?

Because if you kill anyone who might otherwise defect to you, the defections will only ever flow one way. And if you kill all your prisoners, the enemy will fight to the death because they have nothing to lose.

This is a 'hearts and minds' campaign as much as a military one, and Smodur's policy hands that advantage entirely to the Dominion.

This is a cultural thing first and foremost. Blame the Charr, not him.

[Kossage.9072]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@"Sheader.6827" said:They jumped his personality too much. I remember from Season 2 how calm and respectful he was towards the PC and Rytlock. This is not the same character. The situation does not demand him to turn into Bangar 2.0.

To be fair, in Season 3 he had Rytlock arrested for questioning, and then deemed Rytlock's experiences in the Mists 'classified' so there was no opportunity to make the link between a figure in the Mists that could reignite Sohothin and Balthazar until Balthazar had already caught us by surprise.

But yeah, there does seem to be a shift in his characterisation.

That actually brings up an interesting point about charr politics: how much power do the imperators hold over other legions' officers?

We don't know if it was Smodur who was the sole person behind the arrest per se other than the appearance of the Adamant Guard which at least suggests his involvement as other imperators couldn't order the Adamant Guard around like that. But it opens another can of worms:

Back in Season 2 Rytlock and Smodur seemed to get along fine, and Smodur was certain Rytlock would survive the Mists trip. He did ask the Commander to deliver news to him once Rytlock returned so he could learn what Rytlock had experienced, but other than that he didn't seem to press the issue.

Upon his return from the Mists, Rytlock never had a conversation about Smodur with the Commander, on screen at least, so we don't know if the Commander ever relayed Smodur's wish to Rytlock. By the time Rytlock's return became widely known, he did receive summons to return to the Black Citadel, but he oddly rejected these summons despite the fact how at the time nothing he had done in the Mists (to our knowledge) would be dangerous per se: all we really learned over time was that he met Glint who taught him the ways of the revenant, he might have struggled mastering the powers of various legends a bit, and he freed a seemingly random spirit who had somehow reignited Sohothin. And yet Rytlock was willing to disobey orders even though a quick trip to the Citadel to report the aforementioned info would've been enough to satisfy Smodur's curiosity.

Second, Smodur shouldn't really have such an authority over Rytlock, at least not while Rytlock wasn't at the Black Citadel, and thus Iron grounds, at the time. Oddly enough Rytlock was even demoted, an act that Smodur as Iron Imperator shouldn't be able to do to my understanding. This, to me, suggests that perhaps Bangar was behind wanting a report from Rytlock and had the authority to demote Rytlock if he resisted, and somehow coerced Smodur to go along with the idea to bring Rytlock back to a tribunal (maybe threatening opening hostilities with Smodur if Blood's demands were not met). This would also explain Rytlock's reluctance to hand in a report as he wanted nothing to do with Bangar and tried to avoid responsibility as long as possible until no other choice was left for him (compare him e.g. reluctantly following us to Grothmar during the prologue episode).

If Iron Imperator Smodur somehow had the authority to demote a Blood Tribune like Rytlock, that would no doubt cause an incident between him and Bangar; even if Smodur enjoyed humiliating Bangar with such a show of power, he'd be dealing with the same Blood Imperator who had confiscated Iron artillery and had at one point intended to aim them at the Black Citadel just because of paranoia. Who knows how Bangar would've acted if he learned what Smodur had done to a Blood officer, so Smodur as a strategist should've hopefully known better than to take that chance.

Still, it begs the question why Rytlock was so tight-lipped about the Mists adventure at all. It couldn't have been freeing a random spirit or being taught by Glint as those, by themselves, aren't really that big a deal beyond introducing a new profession to Tyria. Given how the info was deemed classified so only tribunes and above had clearance for it while Rytlock's rank was somehow reinstated after his tribunal, there must've been something else to the story that convinced the charr brass of such secrecy and why Rytlock wasn't ordered to scrapper duty for the rest of his life.

I wonder if just freeing a random spirit really was that big a deal to the charr brass or if Rytlock is still hiding something from us. Perhaps he learned something and swore to Glint to never reveal it under any circumstance, hence his reluctance to elaborate on matters until he was forced to. Or maybe he discovered something that he personally wanted to keep a secret so whatever knowledge he learned wouldn't be abused by Bangar or anyone else.

It does make one think what Smodur's thought process was during the whole tribunal, and if this incident somehow soured his and Rytlock's budding friendship and respect to some degree. It would be nice if the writers explored what exactly happened during the closed doors meeting, why Rytlock was reluctant about turning in a report, and why his rank was reinstated despite his disobedience. It seems like we're still missing a key piece of Rytlock's Mists puzzle that has been ongoing since the subplot began in Season 2.

Curiously Season 2 also introduced the idea of Rox working as a free agent and reporting on some activities to someone in Smodur's office. I've written at length about "Rox's Secret", why she was acting as a spy, who exactly was she was spying on, what her relationship was with the enigmatic and hostile Monti Scythescrape, and why Rox even lied to the Pact Commander (with only the charr Commander realizing something was amiss in her explanations) during "Reunion with the Pact" and "Return to Camp Resolve" instances.

Was Rox working for Smodur as she was interested in Rytlock's Mists adventure as well as the egg based on her dialogue in S2 and HoT, or was she potentially working for Bangar if she was offered another chance to join the Stone Warband by delivering him intel on Core Tyrian activities? I wouldn't put it past Bangar to use Rox as a pawn in his game as he knows what buttons to push and what rewards to offer to make people dance to his tune. However, it still leaves the mystery of Monti whose armor our charr Commander didn't recognize, though, but Monti could've been Bangar's liaison for all we know unless there's something else to him as he and Rox seem to know each other from somewhere and don't seem to like one another that much.

Whatever the reason, it seems strange that Smodur would change his tune about Rytlock since "Plan of Attack" and start insulting him despite respecting him before. It's likewise strange why Rytlock would hesitate telling Smodur anything in S3 if Smodur was for the most part responsible for the arrest and tribunal as opposed to Bangar, as nothing that we know of Rytlock's Mists adventure is dangerous knowledge per se. Rytlock would be risking his entire career for nothing.

It seems to me like there's more to this story yet to be told, but whether we ever explore it now that both Angel McCoy and Scott McGough (who seem to have been the main architects of this idea and may have taken their plans with them) are gone remains to be seen. It would be a neat tie-in to Bangar and Smodur's storyline, especially if we ran into Monti again and learned just what exactly his relationship with Rox was, and if the story ever canonizes the cut Season 1 ending where Rox was suggested to be Rytlock's half-sister via sharing the same dam who had made Rytlock promise to watch over Rox while on her deathbed.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Seems like a typical, war-minded Charr to me. There has never been tolerance for defectors or enemy spies, so why show mercy to them now?

Because if you kill anyone who might otherwise defect to you, the defections will only ever flow one way. And if you kill all your prisoners, the enemy will fight to the death because they have nothing to lose.

This is a 'hearts and minds' campaign as much as a military one, and Smodur's policy hands that advantage entirely to the Dominion.

This is a cultural thing first and foremost. Blame the Charr, not him.

From the reactions of other charr in the episode, it's pretty clear that Smodur's choices are his own personal policy, not a universal charr cultural trait.

[CAA.9653]

Ehh, killing enemy solders, death penalty for treason, executing prisoners - sadly that is all too common in any war. But in then end, Bangar and Smolder will die, Rytlock or Crecia will become the new Imperator of the Blood Legion while the other returns to Tribute duties, Ryland will join the PC guild and become the new chosen one (e.g. Brahan) for their species/race. Personally, I like the dark turn the story is taking - more interesting than the kid stuff from the main story and early LS seasons.

[battledrone.8315]

@"CAA.9653" said:Ehh, killing enemy solders, death penalty for treason, executing prisoners - sadly that is all too common in any war. But in then end, Bangar and Smolder will die, Rytlock or Crecia will become the new Imperator of the Blood Legion while the other returns to Tribute duties, Ryland will join the PC guild and become the new chosen one (e.g. Brahan) for their species/race. Personally, I like the dark turn the story is taking - more interesting than the kid stuff from the main story and early LS seasons.

that "kids stuff" is actually quite important, we were the good guys fighting evil.in a grey world, ANYONE could be your next enemy...or friendyou are basically fighting the whole world to save.....the whole worldat that point, you are basically just a murder machine...GG

[Kulvar.1239]

Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

[battledrone.8315]

@"Kulvar.1239" said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

[CAA.9653]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"CAA.9653" said:Ehh, killing enemy solders, death penalty for treason, executing prisoners - sadly that is all too common in any war. But in then end, Bangar and Smolder will die, Rytlock or Crecia will become the new Imperator of the Blood Legion while the other returns to Tribute duties, Ryland will join the PC guild and become the new chosen one (e.g. Brahan) for their species/race. Personally, I like the dark turn the story is taking - more interesting than the kid stuff from the main story and early LS seasons.

that "kids stuff" is actually quite important, we were the good guys fighting evil.in a grey world, ANYONE could be your next enemy...or friendyou are basically fighting the whole world to save.....the whole worldat that point, you are basically just a murder machine...GG

You're making assumptions about what I meant based on what I said. I didn't say anything about a grey world. My point is, the story line was predictable and boring, and the sudden change in tone makes everything more interesting. But to your point, GWs has always been a shade of grey - everybody is either an ally or an enemy, and your PC is judge, jury, and executioner just like in most video games. Flame legion- the PC has killed hundreds/thousands of them, and now some are allies. Corsairs - enemies then allies. Bangar - ally now enemy. Sylvari - ally then enemy now ally again. But in the end, I don't think any of us play GW2 strictly for the well structured story narrative. But I promise you there will be a happy ending to this Saga because most people want to believe they are always fighting for the 'good' side.

[Kulvar.1239]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"Kulvar.1239" said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

[battledrone.8315]

@CAA.9653 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@CAA.9653 said:Ehh, killing enemy solders, death penalty for treason, executing prisoners - sadly that is all too common in any war. But in then end, Bangar and Smolder will die, Rytlock or Crecia will become the new Imperator of the Blood Legion while the other returns to Tribute duties, Ryland will join the PC guild and become the new chosen one (e.g. Brahan) for their species/race. Personally, I like the dark turn the story is taking - more interesting than the kid stuff from the main story and early LS seasons.

that "kids stuff" is actually quite important, we were the good guys fighting evil.in a grey world, ANYONE could be your next enemy...or friendyou are basically fighting the whole world to save.....the whole worldat that point, you are basically just a murder machine...GG

You're making assumptions about what I meant based on what I said. I didn't say anything about a grey world. My point is, the story line was predictable and boring, and the sudden change in tone makes everything more interesting. But to your point, GWs has always been a shade of grey - everybody is either an ally or an enemy, and your PC is judge, jury, and executioner just like in most video games. Flame legion- the PC has killed hundreds/thousands of them, and now some are allies. Corsairs - enemies then allies. Bangar - ally now enemy. Sylvari - ally then enemy now ally again. But in the end, I don't think any of us play GW2 strictly for the well structured story narrative. But I promise you there will be a happy ending to this Saga because most people want to believe they are always fighting for the 'good' side.

if you dont mean what you say, then you prolly shouldnt say it to begin withthis is a FANTASY mmo , and most people dream about being the hero, not some morally ambigious mercenarythey will prolly TRY to write a happy ending, but it wont be happy at all.the "boring and predictable" parts are actually needed, which they are about to find out

[battledrone.8315]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown showyou want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join youand a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

[draxynnic.3719]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown showyou want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join youand a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

For someone who's supposed to be good at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@draxynnic.3719 said:Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

For someone who's supposed to be good at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.What has Smodur ever actually negotiated himself though? The big thing usually accredited to him, the Ebonhawk Treaty, was almost entirely the work of Almorra, and Malice. He just likes taking the credit, something brought up in this very episode.

[battledrone.8315]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown showyou want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join youand a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

For someone who's supposed to be

good

at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.

it is both evil AND stupid, a total cartoon villain.leaders like that are usually directly supported (and controlled) by satan himselfthe only way it would make sense, is if theyre setting up the PC to take back the "commander" titleand if thats the case, they prolly chose the worst way to do it

[Kulvar.1239]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown showyou want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join youand a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

Or the alliance would have never happened. You can't know.

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown showyou want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join youand a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

For someone who's supposed to be

good

at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.

You're mostly true.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Honestly really expecting it will be revealed to be influence from Jormag with how much they went out of their way to highlight his behaviour.

[Loesh.4697]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Honestly really expecting it will be revealed to be influence from Jormag with how much they went out of their way to highlight his behaviour.

Nah, in Guild Chat they outright said the whispers had nothing to do with it.

[Wolfb.7025]

@JTGuevara.9018 said:He still is! He hasn't changed. I don't even see the problem here. Smodur is doing what is practically done in any conflict, hold the line and punish betrayal and defections. However, he does have a more heavy hand in war than in peace. But still, it's no diffferent than what any mere run-of-the-mill Charr warband does on a daily basis. The thing is, the player and Crecia want diplomacy so they can bring back Ryland in one piece. However, diplomacy doesn't always work. Bangar's forces have made it clear that they will oppose the legions to the death.

If people see a problem with Smodur, it's simply because the latest episode did a good job highlighting the differences between Crecia and co vs. Smodur, which in any case good job ANet! Basically, Smodur wasn't a problem until the story said he was a problem!

Just logged in to say I completely agree with you. I never wanted to see the story on a player's perspective (like, saying Bangar is dumb for believing he can tame an elder dragon and the defectors for following his ideals, for us players is really dumb, but for tyrians is a completely different thing to consider). And what Anet really made is make Smodur look bad just for the sake of looking like the villain and taking away part of the possibility of him becoming a Khan-Ur just for plot purposes. I just hope he doesn't end up receiving the Braham treatement to the point the player base loathe him.

[DaFishBob.6518]

He saw Ryland not follow the agreement to show up alone and already had enough of being shown up by this cub, at least since the parley.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

One thing to note is that Smodur has always done things based on what he feels like he NEEDS to do to survive.

• He accepted help from Blood and Ash because he couldn't fight the ghosts, flame legion, and Asclonians on his own
• He accepted the treaty with humanity because the siege against Ebonhawke had gone nowhere in hundreds of years, and he needed those forces on the other fronts
• He agreed to help fight Mordremoth because it was made clear no one nation could stand on its own

You know what Smodur doesn't need? Ryland, the Steel Warband, or the defectors. If he could Thanos snap them all to dust what would he really lose? Nothing. So far, nothing has given Smodur any reason to care about them, and after all the horrible stuff they pulled, Smodur's actions are tame by comparison. He attacked an enemy weapons research facility, and killed a prisoner of war... and the defectors mass murdered entire villages of people for literally no reason other then they could.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

For someone who's supposed to be

good

at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.What has Smodur ever actually negotiated himself though? The big thing usually accredited to him, the Ebonhawk Treaty, was almost entirely the work of Almorra, and Malice. He just likes taking the credit, something brought up in this very episode.

Almorra and Malice were (among) the first to decide that a truce with humans was the better option and helped to persuade Smodur, but Smodur is the one who did the actual negotiating, directly or through delegates, since the region formerly known as Ascalon is Iron Legion territory. And he's made a fair few territorial concessions in the process.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

• He accepted help from Blood and Ash because he couldn't fight the ghosts, flame legion, and Asclonians on his own

Pretty sure Smodur hasn't been alive, let alone Imperator, long enough to have been the one to have made that decision. The Blood-Ash-Iron alliance goes back pretty much to the Plains of Golghein.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@draxynnic.3719 said:Almorra and Malice were (among) the first to decide that a truce with humans was the better option and helped to persuade Smodur, but Smodur is the one who did the actual negotiating, directly or through delegates, since the region formerly known as Ascalon is Iron Legion territory. And he's made a fair few territorial concessions in the process.Ive never gotten this impression. Everything stated about how the treaty came to bee puts it in Almorra and Malice's hands. All Smodur is ever stated to have done is make a few token appeasement efforts, like freeing the human prisoners in the Black Citadel, and singing the paper.

Pretty sure Smodur hasn't been alive, let alone Imperator, long enough to have been the one to have made that decision. The Blood-Ash-Iron alliance goes back pretty much to the Plains of Golghein.I wasn't talking about the general Alliance between the three.

[battledrone.8315]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown showyou want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join youand a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

Or the alliance would have never happened. You can't know.

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution"best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown showyou want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join youand a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

For someone who's supposed to be

good

at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.

You're mostly true.

but he made it clear, that he is totally ruthless, and a moron. history is full of countries, that had leaders like thatthose countries always get shafted. always.following him is a sure way to a full blown disaster