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WvW Performance and Map Cap Testing


Cal Cohen.2358

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@misterman.1530 said:I'm sorry. This has to be a typo. Max number of players on a map - overall - will be 21? Max of 7 per Server/Team? Will this test cover every map? That means at any given time, the maximum number of players that can be in WvW is 84 (21 on each of the 4 maps). 28 per Server. That'll be interesting. Since it means the servers that stack heavy in NA off-hours will be a disadvantage - am all for that actually. :)

They are reducing the cap by 21 players. The phrasing is a bit confusing, I had to read the post multiple times. Does anyone know what the current cap is?

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TBH, I agree with this new improvement. But the problem is there're too many stacks of condi (like burning, torments, bleeding and confusions) need to be applied with less amount of stacks and duration.

The other problem is there are many organized guilds that are in Discord comms want to take SMC all the time where it increases WvW points by, IDK, 20/30 for T3..? But unfortunately, there are also many pugs that try to join squads that are either in comms or not, or just tagging up without comms and they're the ones popping map bread queues all the time (depends on their active timezone).

Another thing to worry about is there are some big servers paired with big servers, for e.g.: JQ + BP, Mag + SoR and FC + NSP. No disrespect, but ya guys need to pair servers wisely, not blob servers + blob servers and blob servers + medium to high servers. This is why skill lags happen, because of this. And pugs are also a wild card.

But in other words, I'm glad to see some improvements and I can't wait to try it out. I know that it takes a long time, but keep up with your great efforts. ;)

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@StARlORD.2736 said:Another thing to worry about is there are some big servers paired with big servers, for e.g.: JQ + BP, Mag + SoR and FC + NSP. No disrespect, but ya guys need to pair servers wisely, not blob servers + blob servers and blob servers + medium to high servers. This is why skill lags happen, because of this. And pugs are also a wild card.

SoR was Medium population until being linked to Mag, after that the bandwagon hit us hard. Since the change from Medium to Very High and then back down to High all happened post link announcement, that at least can't be blamed on the link matching formula.

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@Alpha Neuxs.5483 said:

@misterman.1530 said:I'm sorry. This has to be a typo. Max number of players on a map - overall - will be 21? Max of 7 per Server/Team? Will this test cover every map? That means at any given time, the maximum number of players that can be in WvW is 84 (21 on each of the 4 maps). 28 per Server. That'll be interesting. Since it means the servers that stack heavy in NA off-hours will be a disadvantage - am all for that actually. :)

They are reducing the cap by 21 players. The phrasing is a bit confusing, I had to read the post multiple times. Does anyone know what the current cap is?

Seems like it's around 70-80 per side

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If you reduce the size of players on the map with already full servers and links to those full servers that are almost full I can guarantee you that you’re going to have some very (more) angry players. Many players are already waiting hours to get on at reset. All maps are already queued.

This is simply a really lousy hotfix to a problem that’s been ongoing for quite some time.

And yeah, Alliances.

This Is Not The Way

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I think our guild SHLD, has discussed adding another map if this is possible. That would at the very least, offset the problem of latency during play and the dessert BL's are already coded into the game with would mitigate the workload of the coders and NCSoft. Thank you for creating an environment for the best of us that want GW2 to continue with success.

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Don't forget to enable pips in Edge of the Mists and consider un-nerfing its rewards! Even bigger queues, no one will play EotM when it's fun just like regular WvW; they'll just play PvE, PvP, or quit the game.

If I were ArenaNet, I would re-release EotM as an EBG2 rather than leave it as a dead overflow map. People already love Eternal Battlegrounds, and this would be a way to turn the least popular map into the most popular map. It would be silly not to.

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@Odnako.7456 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:

This sounds perfectly normal. Fps always drop like a rock when there's many players nearby.

it could "sound normal" if I had it and always before.But, if they were attentive, they would see what I wrote, before I did not drop the FPS.

Reading this was painful, and i literally have no idea what u where trying to say lol. Please proofread ur post b4 u submit it =D

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Okei, anyone remember this video over 5 years ago?

Also when it comes to server pop and lag. I find it that when 2 enemy servers stack massive blobs the 3rd server will hit its "peak population" way before the actual limit of players. Say there is 70 for other servers and when your prime time starts a bit later then you wont be able to get 70 in and will start getting a que at 40, not sure why that is.As far as lag, in big fights the server who initiates the fight wont have lag, the one who reacts will have lag, all the damage (mostly condition ticks) calculations will be done in priority to the server who started the fight, thus when u are reacting you will always be behind ... As we have seen when it comes to gvg or wvw support the "ideal idea" is to decrease the rosters for each it seems, so in the end we will be ending up in the pvp tournament style format, since thats what the servers are capable of calculating ...Servers are bad and slow when it comes to big scale fights!
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@"Vova.2640" said:thank you cmc.

If these tests prove successful please consider adding a 2nd EBG-like map to the mode to compensate the cap decrease on other maps.or even open a 2nd instance of ebg for prime hours (eg 8pm to midnight EST, 2 skirmishes).

ps. boons and condis dont cause skill lag. u can have 3x75+ blobs standing in close proximity doing absolutely nothing and the game will be unplayable.

Yeah, that's the interesting part of the lag. You can see it and "feel" it coming. Whether it's 30-40 players from your own server or the enemy, you can always see the slightest stuttering when lots of players are approaching. Mounts are obviously making it worse and I would imagine even mini pets don't help. Every time someone runs a minion raid the amount of visual artifacts that follow behind them is mildly amusing. The game also has a second type of server side lag though, the result is the same, but you don't get that "feel" of the lag, you just get the effect, and of course, the inability to do anything but move your character, cause no skills will work.

Every MMO for 20 years has had the ability to "turn off other players effects"...except this one. I wonder if they added this option if it would save the servers trying to report all that flashy stuff to every single client, and reduce some of the lag. It might also reduce some of the seizure inducing light shows that the game has become.

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Stacking buffs, condi's, the big shiny animations, as well as server population are all contributing factors to server lag. The fact that you as a company, selling us sparkly shiny things that ends up being garbage to play because...well, we can't play it. The fact that you can't even correspond with us unless its once in a blue moon is ridiculous. Are you guys just hiring new people all the time and shuffling people around from department to department so no one has a clue on what is actually happening in the game? Sure it's a start to start with....seven people per server. sigh With copious evidence with video clips on the forums, you'd think it would be a bit more than just twenty-one all up. This mallarky has been occurring for years. Y E A R S. I get more feedback and communication from talking to a brick wall.

At least with the server lag, you can tell that a third group is near. But jfc. Just. Talk. More. Fixing your hogwash game would be a nice thing too.

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@"Tomas.6092" said:What is the current total number of players per map?Like legit, month or so ago, one of the devs said on stream that there can be nothing done to reduce the lags.And now doing the easiest kitten possible - just lowering the amount of people that can get into the map, idk if that a solution to fix.We don't even know how many people per server can currently fit to map. Idk why it's even a secret

At one point it was 100 per server. Before they switched to the new forums we got told it was 80 per server. That was also the last that was said on it that I can recall. I'm just hoping they make sure each side is set to the same number, cause quality control hasn't been great.

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I think the massive frustration here is that even us non-technical muppets understand this problem.

Pushing more stuff through the same size pipe = problems.Solutions = Two, huzzah!Solution One = Get a bigger fucking pipe.Solution Two = Put less fucking stuff through the pipe.

The rumour is that you had good pipes, but then traded them in for shit pipes and now wonder why you have a problem. Then your solution is to ask less customers to use the pipes (which is just fucking mindboggling for a company that provides a service like you do).

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Well if you reduce the player cap sizes in maps, then I feel like there something should be added in there to offset the player lower count.

What you could do is either re-purpose EOTM (edge fo the mists) into a new map, like complete revamp it and make it part of the actual wvw maps, make function like a normal wvw map. Or get rid of EOTM and give another wvw map to reduce the load, 5th map, a neutral map, which doesn't belong to anyone.If the players are divided between more maps then wouldn't that help?

We have EBG, Green Borderland, Blue Borderland and Red Borderland.Make a Purple Borderland which is netural, Give it Jungle like theme something akin to HoT as there isnt something like that in wvw, Red Borderland is desert themed like PoF.

This way players who would be in those ques have some where to go. While giving something new to the wvw players.As it stands now EOTM (edge fo the mists) is a ghost town and doesn't feel like an actual part of WvW, From what I've seen most people don't even bother with EOTM, and just wait in que as if it doesn't exist, what is the point of keeping the map if no-one bothers with it or cares about it. Only recently I discovered it exisited, I thought it was like WvW tutorial area on the sode so I didn't bother with it.

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@Squeak.7093 said:Stacking buffs, condi's, the big shiny animations, as well as server population are all contributing factors to server lag. The fact that you as a company, selling us sparkly shiny things that ends up being garbage to play because...well, we can't play it. The fact that you can't even correspond with us unless its once in a blue moon is ridiculous. Are you guys just hiring new people all the time and shuffling people around from department to department so no one has a clue on what is actually happening in the game? Sure it's a start to start with....seven people per server. sigh With copious evidence with video clips on the forums, you'd think it would be a bit more than just twenty-one all up. This mallarky has been occurring for years. Y E A R S. I get more feedback and communication from talking to a brick wall.

At least with the server lag, you can tell that a third group is near. But jfc. Just. Talk. More. Fixing your hogwash game would be a nice thing too.

Shiny cosmetics are handled by your GPU and CPU, it doesn't affect skill lag in any way. It will affect your framerate, sure, but we need to make a distinction between those 2 things. People conflate them way too often.

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@"Sombike.6291" said:Okei, anyone remember this video over 5 years ago?

Also when it comes to server pop and lag. I find it that when 2 enemy servers stack massive blobs the 3rd server will hit its "peak population" way before the actual limit of players. Say there is 70 for other servers and when your prime time starts a bit later then you wont be able to get 70 in and will start getting a que at 40, not sure why that is.As far as lag, in big fights the server who initiates the fight wont have lag, the one who reacts will have lag, all the damage (mostly condition ticks) calculations will be done in priority to the server who started the fight, thus when u are reacting you will always be behind ... As we have seen when it comes to gvg or wvw support the "ideal idea" is to decrease the rosters for each it seems, so in the end we will be ending up in the pvp tournament style format, since thats what the servers are capable of calculating ...Servers are bad and slow when it comes to big scale fights!

That video still cracks me up!

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I think the downsize is only for testing purposes, to see if it improves any. In the case that it does, it doesn't necessarily mean that the change will stay, but that they need to improve the current server by that margin (21 players).

On the other hand, you Really dont have Any excuses regarding Alliances. Go make up your own excuses this time :p

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@zealex.9410 said:Its sad pvp and wvw cant have a more substantial split from pve balance so you guys could change the function of skills and even have a pvp/wvw trait page.

Maybe if cmc tries to talk to the balance team to reduce the boon and condie bloat :/

If it's boon/condi/triggered-ability bloat that's triggering performance issues (which is a theory I find highly credible, certainly), I think you'd want to also reduce them in PVE, tbh. Because the big event-driven maps are also going to be prone to similar issues.

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How is it that we used to have greater map populations at launch than we do today? All that's occurred over 8 years is a constant erosion of map populations and world populations. Neither of which make the game more fun. In fact, the population reductions make the game less fun.

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I did notice an improvement in skill lag this reset compared to most resets the last few months. 50v50 fights had no noticeable skill lag and the couple of 50v50v50 fights we had had maybe 1-2s skill lag compared to the 5-10s lag with rubber banding that I had come to expect. The lag was also only for a short time while the fights were going on, rather than when everyone is just looking at each other as had been the case before. One night isn't enough data to come to a conclusion and there's still room for improvement but it's a start.

It is not at all ideal to have to lower the cap like this, so please do continue working on those optimisations. Skill lag has been a major issue which has often put me off playing entirely.

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