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Downstate - To Change or Not To Change...yeah that's the question


TheGrimm.5624

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Yes, its is another dreaded poll, queue music. Dun dun DUNNNN!

So to keep it simple, let's take a look at where people are today but keep it kind of broad since there are a lot of options on one side and not much on the other. Should downstate be kept as is with no changes. Or changed in some fashion. Forums are a small percentage of players but since references are made to older polls and a number of people didn't want to distract from Alliances but it seems clear it won't anyway so...where are people at with their thoughts? Appreciate your time and opinion. Good gaming!

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I don't think it should be removed, I like the mechanic It keeps things interesting.Some of the classes have a way better time in downstate which I wish they would look at like Ele's vapor form going into doors for one example but My main problem with it is in a big group it's just too easy to ress anyone who goes down, Maybe a reduction in the health pool some more would help.

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I think the first place to start is to remove or reduce the speed increase of revival you see where multiple players hit F, which is really where it gets out of hand.

20 players stacked tight around some rams can revive a player who goes down from AC fire in about 1 second. We got rid of instant Warclaw stomps which countered that tactic, now we need to address the tactic itself.

Normalize the revive speed during combat so it doesn't matter if 1 player or 3 players is involved?

And sorry, but they need to stat split Life Leech. If two players go into downed state at the same time, and only one is a Necro, everybody knows the outcome. Even in PvE I'd say it's a tad OP, but in a competitive mode, compared to what every other profession has? Yeah.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Solanum.6983 said:Maybe a reduction in the health pool for every time someone goes down would help, Like a 3 times and you're dead for good?Uh thats exactly how it works now.

@Solanum.6983 said:Maybe a reduction in the health pool for every time someone goes down would help, Like a 3 times and you're dead for good?Uh thats exactly how it works now.

Is that with both healthpools? Huh I never realized, My bad.

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The poll options are kinda bad. Don't think downstate is troublesome as it is.

They could reduce downstate health % a bit so it takes a bit more to ress people but don't think it matters.

Truth is, I don't understand this downstate hate train. Just die at a spot where you can get ressed at & kill enemies where they can't.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:I think the first place to start is to remove or reduce the speed increase of revival you see where multiple players hit F, which is really where it gets out of hand.

20 players stacked tight around some rams can revive a player who goes down from AC fire in about 1 second. We got rid of instant Warclaw stomps which countered that tactic, now we need to address the tactic itself.

Normalize the revive speed during combat so it doesn't matter if 1 player or 3 players is involved?

And sorry, but they need to stat split Life Leech. If two players go into downed state at the same time, and only one is a Necro, everybody knows the outcome. Even in PvE I'd say it's a tad OP, but in a competitive mode, compared to what every other profession has? Yeah.

Only 5 person can revive something now.

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You left an option out.

Remove downstate.

But if it has to stay then then they need to reduce the HP pool by half, reduce the number of rezzers to 1 or 2, and they need to do a complete rework of the downskills on each class and actually make them balanced with each other, I'd be open to having more downskills though. Bandage Self should heal for more though than it currently does.

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@Threather.9354 said:The poll options are kinda bad. Don't think downstate is troublesome as it is.

They could reduce downstate health % a bit so it takes a bit more to ress people but don't think it matters.

Truth is, I don't understand this downstate hate train. Just die at a spot where you can get ressed at & kill enemies where they can't.

I did a more detailed poll in the past and people said there were too many options. So to understand where people are now 6 months later figured go with more binary options. I think we have seen in regards to the change side that people have lots of differences but there is a common thread of some change is needed. So trying to understand from the limited forum sampling what that looks like or is it just some of us are more vocal about it overall.

Been thinking about how to phrase a poll to understand the people that are looking for change, where are they coming from and is this is an environment side thing or something else. It over simplified to say gankers want to gank. I can only speak for myself here but, as I have stated in the past, coming at it from a roamer/havoc perspective downstate too much favors numbers. There are no tools for a smaller force to slow a larger one if the larger one just has the ability to bring their dead right back in the same spot after the fight. That just discourages people from fighting in the first place if they can't impact the end result and it was pointless to try. Zergs complain about havocs running but why shouldn't they if the fight won't have any value outside of the smaller force having to just regroup. There is no price to a winning pyrrhic victory. During no downstate weeks we see large impacts where smaller forces can and do send zergs back to spawn allowing smaller forces to better defend or at least slow larger numbers. So to me, its at least needs to be changed in some ways.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:You left an option out.

Remove downstate.

But if it has to stay then then they need to reduce the HP pool by half, reduce the number of rezzers to 1 or 2, and they need to do a complete rework of the downskills on each class and actually make them balanced with each other, I'd be open to having more downskills though. Bandage Self should heal for more though than it currently does.

Actually, I didn't I included it in the change side, hence the extra text after the option. I see the removal people on the side of the change versus leave as is. Again last time a lot of people indicated too many option so just trying to highlight are the forum people seeing a change could be made before we go round and round with what does that change look like.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:You left an option out.

Remove downstate.

But if it has to stay then then they need to reduce the HP pool by half, reduce the number of rezzers to 1 or 2, and they need to do a complete rework of the downskills on each class and actually make them balanced with each other, I'd be open to having more downskills though. Bandage Self should heal for more though than it currently does.

Actually, I didn't I included it in the change side, hence the extra text after the option. I see the removal people on the side of the change versus leave as is. Again last time a lot of people indicated too many option so just trying to highlight are the forum people seeing a change could be made before we go round and round with what does that change look like.

That's fair. Removing it certainly is a change. The current problem with downstate is that HP is too high for the damage levels right now. That and even 2 rezzers can get someone off the ground quicker than someone can finish a target.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:You left an option out.

Remove downstate.

But if it has to stay then then they need to reduce the HP pool by half, reduce the number of rezzers to 1 or 2, and they need to do a complete rework of the downskills on each class and actually make them balanced with each other, I'd be open to having more downskills though. Bandage Self should heal for more though than it currently does.

Actually, I didn't I included it in the change side, hence the extra text after the option. I see the removal people on the side of the change versus leave as is. Again last time a lot of people indicated too many option so just trying to highlight are the forum people seeing a change could be made before we go round and round with what does that change look like.

That's fair. Removing it certainly is a change. The current problem with downstate is that HP is too high for the damage levels right now. That and even 2 rezzers can get someone off the ground quicker than someone can finish a target.

I agree, I "think" air quotes that its been posted out there to try a week where the extra health pool that downed were given was removed to see if that would play out better and help the numbers imbalance a bit more. Might achieve the same impact that no downstate weeks do but still allow for some advantage to numbers but less glaring of one.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:You left an option out.

Remove downstate.

But if it has to stay then then they need to reduce the HP pool by half, reduce the number of rezzers to 1 or 2, and they need to do a complete rework of the downskills on each class and actually make them balanced with each other, I'd be open to having more downskills though. Bandage Self should heal for more though than it currently does.

Actually, I didn't I included it in the change side, hence the extra text after the option. I see the removal people on the side of the change versus leave as is. Again last time a lot of people indicated too many option so just trying to highlight are the forum people seeing a change could be made before we go round and round with what does that change look like.

That's fair. Removing it certainly is a change. The current problem with downstate is that HP is too high for the damage levels right now. That and even 2 rezzers can get someone off the ground quicker than someone can finish a target.

I agree, I "think" air quotes that its been posted out there to try a week where the extra health pool that downed were given was removed to see if that would play out better and help the numbers imbalance a bit more. Might achieve the same impact that no downstate weeks do but still allow for some advantage to numbers but less glaring of one.

That would do wonders I think. I still think that if downstate stays that they should do a full revamp of the downstate skill sets.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:

..... The current problem with downstate is that HP is too high for the damage levels right now. That and even 2 rezzers can get someone off the ground quicker than someone can finish a target.

I agree, I "think" air quotes that its been posted out there to try a week where the extra health pool that downed were given was removed to see if that would play out better and help the numbers imbalance a bit more. Might achieve the same impact that no downstate weeks do but still allow for some advantage to numbers but less glaring of one.

That would do wonders I think. I still think that if downstate stays that they should do a full revamp of the downstate skill sets.


Hello there, i see an issue with the "extra health pool while downed removed" suggestion, which is within the different armor types of classes, or even the roles they are in. IF the extra health pool will be removed, a middle ground of hp over all classes must be found - no matter the class or build they are actually playing. It may just be me, but i do not see, why while in downstate, a staff ele should have ~16k hp, but warrior 24k, firebrand 27k, and so on (of course, depending on the build, the numbers can be way higher). Its the downstate, why are there hp differences?

I agree with TheGrimm.5624 about a revamp of the downstate skills (i want them to be equalized), and i made my comment above with that in mind.

Equalize the downstate skills, equalize the hp of the ones in downstate independent of the class or role/build they are in.And the rally have to go. You should not get up from downstate, because 15-30 sec before you placed an aoe-skill....

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Downstate adds some flavor to the game instead of just dps dps dps, and also gives a role to some builds, so I don't mind keeping it. They should remove rally, as it is a haphazard mechanic. You can do dumb things like rally off a third party's guards if two servers are fighting over a third party's target. It also creates toxicity because rallybotting makes it able for new players to greatly impact a fight negatively for being unskilled, and incentivizes guilds to avoid pug "rallybots". This is especially bad in small scale where players that aren't properly equipped to fight in that context simply won't get help because they are liabilities.

While toxcity and such will always exist, we can't change the way people act, but we can change the game to reduce the opportunities for it to occur. Gatekeeping at this point in the game's lifespan is nothing but fatal.

My goal here is not to design a game around who has the biggest kitten. At its core, we need to accept Gw2 is a casual game, and I think these changes would be healthiest to maintaining a working community, instead of being fragmented into the slowly dying mess it is now.

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By the way, this was the most interresting read of all topics made up since the first "no downstate"-event.Both of you, Lan Deathrider.5910 and TheGrimm.5624, expressed yourselfs very well, and even though i dont agree in everything...well, let me say: thank you, for not falling back into stupid insinuations (like zerg-players are mindless sheeps, having barely the skills to press the "one"-button).

I really (still) have hope, for wvw to become to be more fair, and more enjoyable for everyone.... people can dream.

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@Jeran.6850 said:By the way, this was the most interresting read of all topics made up since the first "no downstate"-event.Both of you, Lan Deathrider.5910 and TheGrimm.5624, expressed yourselfs very well, and even though i dont agree in everything...well, let me say: thank you, for not falling back into stupid insinuations (like zerg-players are mindless sheeps, having barely the skills to press the "one"-button).

I really (still) have hope, for wvw to become to be more fair, and more enjoyable for everyone.... people can dream.

@""user"" btw will link to someone and they will get notified. @Jeran.6850 for instance. If you are unsure how to do that then look up when you quote someone and it does it at the first line.

Downstate in its current form does not work well in WvW, hence the negative feelings that get posted. No downstate is the easiest fix, they're able to disable it for an event so they are able to disable it. Reworking the whole system would take more time and resources that I think most players would feel is better sent elsewhere.

That said, I do feel that if it is kept then downstate HP needs to be lower, down skills need a full rework, and the number of rezzers needs to be reduced to a single person.

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And that is where i have to disagee (but thank you about your advise about the "quote" function -and i realy mean it :) ):in this state of the game, it should not happen what seems to be the easiest solution. Obviosly, people that do care about the gamemode are still here....but its an almost impossible task to find a middle ground solution, both from player side, and from developer side.I really fear the consequences of gw2 wvw without the downstate...and that is a fear on several levels of "balance", that i dont even know how to begin to talk about.

As an example: if the downstate will be removed (because its the easiest to implement solution), what will happen to stealth stacking as a consequence? Will it be like with superspeed, where every "new" application of superspeed, even if its lower duration, overwriting what you have before?Because something like that HAVE to happen to stealth abilities, if the downstate will be removed at all.

I really think where on a good road of balance right now, there are a lot of possibilties to enjoy the gamemode:from roaming, small-scale to large scale. We should not want that to be destroyed with unforseeable consequences. Its not perfect, but we are in the best state since introduction of pof. Lets not destroy everything, just for "a change".

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