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Thief Rifle SPvP Issue


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So I have been playing a lot of Rifle DE lately in SPvP.It's a build that I enjoy in PvE (Even tho DD is 10x easier) and I really want to practice it and play it in PvP.I couldn't figure out why it was so bad since it technically poses all the needed traits to work, it has high range, stealth access, mobility built in, a non existent 5 skill (lol). But it has the basics of what it should need to work.After about 120 games, I think the real reason it cant compare to other builds is:A.) It really doesn't have a #5 skill in PvP. Kneeling is horrible in 99.9% of all situations. However, this can be overlooked as the next point is the real issue.B.) It's #1 in all forms needs something more. Its auto attack rotation is pretty much the worst AA in thief's arsenal. It's damage and AUX effects are all worthless.B. 2.0) Death's Judgement needs some kind of unblockable or penetration....or both. It is the primary source or burst for rifle, but it has also been made into one of the slowest moves in the games. And it is EASILY the most projected move in the game. Any player with minimal skill can easily dodge roll DJ.

  1. However, you now add the ability to block/reflect DJ, and suddenly certain classes like Guardian, Elementalist, Rev, Engi and Warrior are basically immune to DJ as they have access to tons of blocks, as well as rolling it since everyone can see it coming.
  2. Additionally, it does not have penetration, which makes any 1v1 potential for DJ to be effective not work, as any pets will just eat it. Thus, making it completely unavailable against Rangers, Mesmers, Necro's, and quite often in this meta, Thief's with their Elite.

We look at the above and....well...that's ALL of the classes that our main source of damage and burst in rifle is useless against in SPvP.

I really think DJ receiving Unbloackable, Penetration, or both, would make Rifle a much more viable spec in PvP. Even if it needs to be added into a talent tree. Heck, my opinion would be to rework Collateral Damage. It's a trait that is used in no build, in any area of the game. Change this to "Death's Judgement gains Unblockable and Penetration". It would take away from Thief's Damage Ability by not being able to take Malicious Intent, but provide more utility by rendering DJ actually viable to use.

As of right now, all I see, even in other threads right on the front page and on the Thief Professions page are people talking about how useless DE is in both PvP and PvE. Sure would be nice to try and fix that, even starting with just this quick change to test it out.

What do you guys think the issue with DE is?

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The biggest Problem with Thief's rifle is that it's Thief's rifle.Thief damage is balanced with it's runaway potential (which includes the overly abundant amounts of teleporting and stealth) in mind.On top of that, the rifle has 1500 range.If you combine the philosophy of making ranged weapons generally weaker (seemingly all except for Ranger Longbow) and Thief damage generally being low to make up for their runaway potential, you get a seemingly useless weapon.

But if you look at PvP around average rating (which should be somewhere around Gold 1 and Silver 2,3), where to majority of participants (players and others) end up, you see enough people dying to DJ.

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@"Luclinraider.2317" said:So I have been playing a lot of Rifle DE lately in SPvP.It's a build that I enjoy in PvE (Even tho DD is 10x easier) and I really want to practice it and play it in PvP.I couldn't figure out why it was so bad since it technically poses all the needed traits to work, it has high range, stealth access, mobility built in, a non existent 5 skill (lol). But it has the basics of what it should need to work.After about 120 games, I think the real reason it cant compare to other builds is:A.) It really doesn't have a #5 skill in PvP. Kneeling is horrible in 99.9% of all situations. However, this can be overlooked as the next point is the real issue.B.) It's #1 in all forms needs something more. Its auto attack rotation is pretty much the worst AA in thief's arsenal. It's damage and AUX effects are all worthless.B. 2.0) Death's Judgement needs some kind of unblockable or penetration....or both. It is the primary source or burst for rifle, but it has also been made into one of the slowest moves in the games. And it is EASILY the most projected move in the game. Any player with minimal skill can easily dodge roll DJ.

  1. However, you now add the ability to block/reflect DJ, and suddenly certain classes like Guardian, Elementalist, Rev, Engi and Warrior are basically immune to DJ as they have access to tons of blocks, as well as rolling it since everyone can see it coming.
  2. Additionally, it does not have penetration, which makes any 1v1 potential for DJ to be effective not work, as any pets will just eat it. Thus, making it completely unavailable against Rangers, Mesmers, Necro's, and quite often in this meta, Thief's with their Elite.

We look at the above and....well...that's ALL of the classes that our main source of damage and burst in rifle is useless against in SPvP.

I really think DJ receiving Unbloackable, Penetration, or both, would make Rifle a much more viable spec in PvP. Even if it needs to be added into a talent tree. Heck, my opinion would be to rework Collateral Damage. It's a trait that is used in no build, in any area of the game. Change this to "Death's Judgement gains Unblockable and Penetration". It would take away from Thief's Damage Ability by not being able to take Malicious Intent, but provide more utility by rendering DJ actually viable to use.

As of right now, all I see, even in other threads right on the front page and on the Thief Professions page are people talking about how useless DE is in both PvP and PvE. Sure would be nice to try and fix that, even starting with just this quick change to test it out.

What do you guys think the issue with DE is?

The issue with DE is DE, in this game a snipper have no place, they made DE as fanservice but after they realized(not at all but in some maner) that a 1500 range stealth oneshooter is broken as hell and they start to make adjustements to try to balance the aberration they made

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People who understood thief were advocating against it since the inception of suggestions of giving thief a sniper OHKO elite spec.It's impossible to balance. Either you make thief take risks and commit to its damage with skilled tools to not instantly die, or it takes no risks and deals no damage.

Following the same logic, it's why I think longbow soulbeast and pretty much anything running permanent protection with good disengage is absolute BS.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:The biggest Problem with Thief's rifle is that it's Thief's rifle.Thief damage is balanced with it's runaway potential (which includes the overly abundant amounts of teleporting and stealth) in mind.

Not with their runaway potential, but with shortbow 5s mobility letting you be anywhere on the map. But, well, its not like DE is good even with shortbow.

On top of that, the rifle has 1500 range.

It only has 1200. As he pointed out, you never kneel. Its incredibly terrible.

If you combine the philosophy of making ranged weapons generally weaker (seemingly all except for Ranger Longbow) and Thief damage generally being low to make up for their runaway potential, you get a seemingly useless weapon.

Eh, ranged weapons arent really generally weaker. Necros Axe was insane for a while, and you got the usual culprits in ranger and dragonhunter. Probably some versions of Ele and Mesmer too.

But if you look at PvP around average rating (which should be somewhere around Gold 1 and Silver 2,3), where to majority of participants (players and others) end up, you see enough people dying to DJ.

Eh, nowadays you dont even see that. At some point people realised "If I dodge when that obnoxious sound happens and the bright orange line appears, I dont take damage".

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Dj had an unblockable after the rework, which also made kneeling bad. I don’t think they want to undo all this. Just so you know though rifle 2 damage is pgood and is good in ranked as a high risk high reward spec. It’s actually somewhat good into revs Holos and necros. If you also want to play like s/d or s/p with shadow arts that’s workable compared to any other shadow arts sword build.

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@"Dantheman.3589" said:Dj had an unblockable after the rework, which also made kneeling bad. I don’t think they want to undo all this. Just so you know though rifle 2 damage is pgood and is good in ranked as a high risk high reward spec. It’s actually somewhat good into revs Holos and necros. If you also want to play like s/d or s/p with shadow arts that’s workable compared to any other shadow arts sword build.

lol... "high risk" with the stealth on dodge atop of all other thief evasion skills.

DE would be a high risk high reward thing if they need mandatory to kneel and kneel truly root them on spot, but while is a shot-dodge- reposition and reset in stealth- repeat is not a high risk thing

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@megilandil.7506 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:Dj had an unblockable after the rework, which also made kneeling bad. I don’t think they want to undo all this. Just so you know though rifle 2 damage is pgood and is good in ranked as a high risk high reward spec. It’s actually somewhat good into revs Holos and necros. If you also want to play like s/d or s/p with shadow arts that’s workable compared to any other shadow arts sword build.

lol... "high risk" with the stealth on dodge atop of all other thief evasion skills.

DE would be a high risk high reward thing if they need mandatory to kneel and kneel truly root them on spot, but while is a shot-dodge- reposition and reset in stealth- repeat is not a high risk thing

It has 1 sec on stealth on dodge only with rifle if traited which becomes 2 secs if you take shadow arts. Out of all the thief builds rn deadeye is by far the highest risk. You think it’s low risk try playing in plat1 as a non thief main and you’ll understand why most don’t play deadeye for any reason other than carrying ranked.

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Thief rifle is exactly how it's supposed to be. Stealthed sniper mechanic will always be toxic in competitive, this is GW2 not call of duty. Combat system is better balanced with action - reaction mechanism, give a class a range stealth burst and that goes away.What you are asking is to make a build that cannot be healthy to the game viable. Of course there is a way to balance out things, but it won't be fun to fight against. That's the same reason people dislike fighting against scourge, explosive entrance mortar engies, burn guards, etc. and are slowly leaving the game.

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@"Luclinraider.2317" said:So I have been playing a lot of Rifle DE lately in SPvP.It's a build that I enjoy in PvE (Even tho DD is 10x easier) and I really want to practice it and play it in PvP.I couldn't figure out why it was so bad since it technically poses all the needed traits to work, it has high range, stealth access, mobility built in, a non existent 5 skill (lol). But it has the basics of what it should need to work.After about 120 games, I think the real reason it cant compare to other builds is:A.) It really doesn't have a #5 skill in PvP. Kneeling is horrible in 99.9% of all situations. However, this can be overlooked as the next point is the real issue.B.) It's #1 in all forms needs something more. Its auto attack rotation is pretty much the worst AA in thief's arsenal. It's damage and AUX effects are all worthless.B. 2.0) Death's Judgement needs some kind of unblockable or penetration....or both. It is the primary source or burst for rifle, but it has also been made into one of the slowest moves in the games. And it is EASILY the most projected move in the game. Any player with minimal skill can easily dodge roll DJ.

  1. However, you now add the ability to block/reflect DJ, and suddenly certain classes like Guardian, Elementalist, Rev, Engi and Warrior are basically immune to DJ as they have access to tons of blocks, as well as rolling it since everyone can see it coming.
  2. Additionally, it does not have penetration, which makes any 1v1 potential for DJ to be effective not work, as any pets will just eat it. Thus, making it completely unavailable against Rangers, Mesmers, Necro's, and quite often in this meta, Thief's with their Elite.

We look at the above and....well...that's ALL of the classes that our main source of damage and burst in rifle is useless against in SPvP.

I really think DJ receiving Unbloackable, Penetration, or both, would make Rifle a much more viable spec in PvP. Even if it needs to be added into a talent tree. Heck, my opinion would be to rework Collateral Damage. It's a trait that is used in no build, in any area of the game. Change this to "Death's Judgement gains Unblockable and Penetration". It would take away from Thief's Damage Ability by not being able to take Malicious Intent, but provide more utility by rendering DJ actually viable to use.

As of right now, all I see, even in other threads right on the front page and on the Thief Professions page are people talking about how useless DE is in both PvP and PvE. Sure would be nice to try and fix that, even starting with just this quick change to test it out.

What do you guys think the issue with DE is?

There is none. At least in the way you're implying, of course there are projectile based bugs.

You mentioned that 1v1 ability for the spec is bad. It's because DE has insane damage potential. Berserkers amulet, scholar runes, separation sigil, assassin signet, BQoBK... it's not that hard to stack all your modifiers which result in a 2.5 second window where you can land enough damage to down anything short of a full shroud necromancer. The "skill" involved is knowing when to land the burst, and how to force windows where the enemy is vulnerable to it.DJ used to be unblockable, it was taken away during the nerfs gradually tuning all overperforming specs down. At the time it was unfair, now it definitely isn't. DE-s real tradeoff is getting better(and ranged) damage at the cost of reliance on stealth+projectiles, with lessened mobility. An unblockable DJ would bypass half of this tradeoff, and would make DE far too OP - especially on lower ratings.

People saying DE is underpowered can't play it properly. It works for me just fine.

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@"Bazsi.2734" said:

You mentioned that 1v1 ability for the spec is bad. It's because DE has insane damage potential. Berserkers amulet, scholar runes, separation sigil, assassin signet, BQoBK... it's not that hard to stack all your modifiers which result in a 2.5 second window where you can land enough damage to down anything short of a full shroud necromancer. The "skill" involved is knowing when to land the burst, and how to force windows where the enemy is vulnerable to it.DJ used to be unblockable, it was taken away during the nerfs gradually tuning all overperforming specs down. At the time it was unfair, now it definitely isn't. DE-s real tradeoff is getting better(and ranged) damage at the cost of reliance on stealth+projectiles, with lessened mobility. An unblockable DJ would bypass half of this tradeoff, and would make DE far too OP - especially on lower ratings.

People saying DE is underpowered can't play it properly. It works for me just fine.

  • de can do somthing in 1v1, but it depends on where, what cooldowns will u have, etc. U will never kill a mirage, ranger and some dp thief - all of these guys can be ur same skill lvl with u or a bit lower, that doesnt matter-. U can also be kited by weaver pretty long and be killed too.

  • de has no damage potential in pvp, cuz we talking about pvp. It has better sustain than dp, but burst damage lower than pd condi. To provide damage u need need hit with 2 skills (crit gives doublemalice) and 3 if u have m7 what is played more oftenly, cuz it gives much more sustain compared to bqobk(+ malicious intent that gives u 1 malice when u used mark). And this trait is completely useless, cuz u have to pick one in chamber to have more stealth access, i hope nooneneeded here to explain why stealth is so important to thieves. SO, this is all that i have said is to land 1 dj, that will hit for 10k (with full m7 and if u not dead yet to enemies that have no tooughness modifier or protection). all u can do during 2.5 secs using bqobk is to hit some 3rb but ofc u wont hit with it. Cuz in current state everyone do at least dodgeroll or pressing block after u land a mark, and u ll stay kneeled down with all ur burst stuff and w8 until block ends, or just miss with all skills and waste all of ur initiative. U wont kill anyone with these 2.5 secs or do some worthy impact. Other ur burst if u have assasin signet with stacked modifiers wont be able to land, cuz u have to play defensively and dat necro fore example (who is easiest target) will spam u fear/condies/chills or put shroud. And im not telling anything about magnetic auras, scourge barriers and fb's sphere that does reflect to u. Using bers+scholar = instakill for enemy thief, that will just fear u throught landing backstab + heartseeker, allmost instakill for enemy mirage, oneshot from enemy pew pew soulbeast, guaranteed kill for enemy rev. As u can see, at all variants ur combat will be long, and bqobk was taken to land fast burst earlier, before patch to land some heavy damage and then finish that guy. Now all what u can do is just waste ur initiative and land some random 2.3k bullet, or 3.5k dj cuz u wont have all 5/7 malice for good dj. De's main problem is slowness. He gains secondary resourse too ling to land some worthy strike at the moment u need, and also de has no unblokable strikes/interrupts to deal with some rangers, interrupt guardians hea;, it has only stealth and shadowstep as save skill, and some ok sustain, not good not bad, just ok. De is good for cutting noobs, on higher mmr u will be hardly punished for every time u left stealth.

  • And yes, de is useless, u just need one of: tempest, rev, hfb, or healscg (metasupps) and u wont be able to kill someone earlier than ur mates die. If de had potential someone would play it, but none of p2+ does, de just a meme and taken for fun, what is rare at g3+. U could carry a game with this build before feb patch, but not now. Sadly, but i love playing sniper, and take it sometimes when we lack of sustain in team, but it easily countered, espesially if enemies can rotate. U can play prorely and just got smashed by some mirage + dp thief that has far more mobility than u for +1.

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DE is just an unhealthy spec since the very beginning. Starting at malicious backstab that could oneshot back in the days, ending with stealth at will, 1200+ range, knockdown and immobilize (oh, and removing revealed ofc). Barely any risk, out of all teef specs id say its the safest one (as long as you know what youre doing).

I get what ANet wanted to do, and design was not bad, but the product weve got is just made for toxic gameplay. One of the reasons why in most games, characters with high stealth access and assassin gameplay are made for close meele range. High damage, good utility, but also paper if played badly.

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@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Luclinraider.2317" said:So I have been playing a lot of Rifle DE lately in SPvP.It's a build that I enjoy in PvE (Even tho DD is 10x easier) and I really want to practice it and play it in PvP.I couldn't figure out why it was so bad since it technically poses all the needed traits to work, it has high range, stealth access, mobility built in, a non existent 5 skill (lol). But it has the basics of what it should need to work.After about 120 games, I think the real reason it cant compare to other builds is:A.) It really doesn't have a #5 skill in PvP. Kneeling is horrible in 99.9% of all situations. However, this can be overlooked as the next point is the real issue.B.) It's #1 in all forms needs something more. Its auto attack rotation is pretty much the worst AA in thief's arsenal. It's damage and AUX effects are all worthless.B. 2.0) Death's Judgement needs some kind of unblockable or penetration....or both. It is the primary source or burst for rifle, but it has also been made into one of the slowest moves in the games. And it is EASILY the most projected move in the game. Any player with minimal skill can easily dodge roll DJ.
  1. However, you now add the ability to block/reflect DJ, and suddenly certain classes like Guardian, Elementalist, Rev, Engi and Warrior are basically immune to DJ as they have access to tons of blocks, as well as rolling it since everyone can see it coming.
  2. Additionally, it does not have penetration, which makes any 1v1 potential for DJ to be effective not work, as any pets will just eat it. Thus, making it completely unavailable against Rangers, Mesmers, Necro's, and quite often in this meta, Thief's with their Elite.

We look at the above and....well...that's ALL of the classes that our main source of damage and burst in rifle is useless against in SPvP.

I really think DJ receiving Unbloackable, Penetration, or both, would make Rifle a much more viable spec in PvP. Even if it needs to be added into a talent tree. Heck, my opinion would be to rework Collateral Damage. It's a trait that is used in no build, in any area of the game. Change this to "Death's Judgement gains Unblockable and Penetration". It would take away from Thief's Damage Ability by not being able to take Malicious Intent, but provide more utility by rendering DJ actually viable to use.

As of right now, all I see, even in other threads right on the front page and on the Thief Professions page are people talking about how useless DE is in both PvP and PvE. Sure would be nice to try and fix that, even starting with just this quick change to test it out.

What do you guys think the issue with DE is?

There is none. At least in the way you're implying, of course there are projectile based bugs.

You mentioned that 1v1 ability for the spec is bad. It's because DE has insane damage potential. Berserkers amulet, scholar runes, separation sigil, assassin signet, BQoBK... it's not that hard to stack all your modifiers which result in a 2.5 second window where you can land enough damage to down anything short of a full shroud necromancer. The "skill" involved is knowing when to land the burst, and how to force windows where the enemy is vulnerable to it.DJ used to be unblockable, it was taken away during the nerfs gradually tuning all overperforming specs down. At the time it was unfair, now it definitely isn't. DE-s real tradeoff is getting better(and ranged) damage at the cost of reliance on stealth+projectiles, with lessened mobility. An unblockable DJ would bypass half of this tradeoff, and would make DE far too OP - especially on lower ratings.

People saying DE is underpowered can't play it properly. It works for me just fine.

This is the best answer in this thread. DE is definately working fine at the moment for people who know when to play it and how to play it, and I'm talking of Plat games.

DE has an insane kill potential in a game, it's up to you if you wish to loose your time 1v1ing someone on a node they have taken already. If you wish to play it against good thieves that will farm you the whole game, it's also your mistake.

I don't even understand how you can argue for a spec that can actually oneshot people to have unblockable projectiles. Do you even realize what that'd mean in a teamfight ?

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Let me explain a few things here:

  1. Rifle used to have unblockable on DJ. It was nerfed because everyone complained about it.
  2. Deadeye was never good in high tiered pvp even before the several nerfs, because its entire design prevents it from ever being able to stand on a node. It's great in WvW, terrible in SPvP, always has been. The reasons why it's bad have nothing to do with the mechanical components you were trying to examine. It simply cannot stand on a node. If a DE tries to stand on a node, it's like he's putting a big red bulls eye on his head and saying "Hey, I'm right here, come teleport-burst or sic em-burst me." and that's exactly what will happen if he stands there on the node. And even if an excellent DE is attempting to fight to defend a node, he has to stealth so often, that he will immediately lose the node anyway, and be forced to allow an opponent to cap it. DE is inherently bad in conquest because it essentially leaves its team 4v5 when it comes to the node play. Even if it was OP in terms of statistical value in combat, it would still suck in conquest play for that reason.
  3. Deadeye is always going to suck in conquest. If you want you play that specialization, chew on that, swallow it, digest it, and accept it now. Deadeye, just like Ranger, has 1500 ranged projectile play. Guild Wars 2 players absolutely hate ranged play. It doesn't matter how underpowered longbows or thief rifle becomes, you will still always see threads written where people are complaining about a thief rifle, because it is able to hit them from 1500 range from a ledge, and their warrior can't brawl with it. The majority of the GW2 pvp player base has a misunderstanding of what is actually overpowered & overperforming and what is annoying them. Regardless, Arenanet listens to these kinds of complaint threads and wallah, this is why no one plays Deadeye competitively anymore. And things will stay that way, I'll guarantee you that.
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@Aihao.5824 said:

@"Bazsi.2734" said:

You mentioned that 1v1 ability for the spec is bad. It's because DE has insane damage potential. Berserkers amulet, scholar runes, separation sigil, assassin signet, BQoBK... it's not that hard to stack all your modifiers which result in a 2.5 second window where you can land enough damage to down anything short of a full shroud necromancer. The "skill" involved is knowing when to land the burst, and how to force windows where the enemy is vulnerable to it.DJ used to be unblockable, it was taken away during the nerfs gradually tuning all overperforming specs down. At the time it was unfair, now it definitely isn't. DE-s real tradeoff is getting better(and ranged) damage at the cost of reliance on stealth+projectiles, with lessened mobility. An unblockable DJ would bypass half of this tradeoff, and would make DE far too OP - especially on lower ratings.

People saying DE is underpowered can't play it properly. It works for me just fine.
  • de can do somthing in 1v1, but it depends on where, what cooldowns will u have, etc. U will never kill a mirage, ranger and some dp thief - all of these guys can be ur same skill lvl with u or a bit lower, that doesnt matter-. U can also be kited by weaver pretty long and be killed too.

Doing something is hardly ever worth it unless you get a kill out of that "something" within seconds. Reliance on stealth means you cannot hold points, even contesting them is pretty hard over a longer period of time.

  • de has no damage potential in pvp, cuz we talking about pvp.It does, I even listed the main components and modifiers you can cram into a build currently, did you even read it?It has better sustain than dp, but burst damage lower than pd condi. To provide damage u need need hit with 2 skills (crit gives doublemalice) and 3 if u have m7 what is played more oftenly, cuz it gives much more sustain compared to bqobk(+ malicious intent that gives u 1 malice when u used mark). And this trait is completely useless, cuz u have to pick one in chamber to have more stealth access, i hope nooneneeded here to explain why stealth is so important to thieves. SO, this is all that i have said is to land 1 dj, that will hit for 10k (with full m7 and if u not dead yet to enemies that have no tooughness modifier or protection). all u can do during 2.5 secs using bqobk is to hit some 3rb but ofc u wont hit with it. Cuz in current state everyone do at least dodgeroll or pressing block after u land a mark, and u ll stay kneeled down with all ur burst stuff and w8 until block ends, or just miss with all skills and waste all of ur initiative. U wont kill anyone with these 2.5 secs or do some worthy impact. Other ur burst if u have assasin signet with stacked modifiers wont be able to land, cuz u have to play defensively and dat necro fore example (who is easiest target) will spam u fear/condies/chills or put shroud. And im not telling anything about magnetic auras, scourge barriers and fb's sphere that does reflect to u. Using bers+scholar = instakill for enemy thief, that will just fear u throught landing backstab + heartseeker, allmost instakill for enemy mirage, oneshot from enemy pew pew soulbeast, guaranteed kill for enemy rev. As u can see, at all variants ur combat will be long, and bqobk was taken to land fast burst earlier, before patch to land some heavy damage and then finish that guy. Now all what u can do is just waste ur initiative and land some random 2.3k bullet, or 3.5k dj cuz u wont have all 5/7 malice for good dj.

Ah yes, DE is really hard to play when you pick the wrong traits and do subpar combos.

De's main problem is slowness.Look up what Meld with Shadows does. Shadow Arts is mandatory.He gains secondary resourse too ling to land some worthy strike at the moment u need, and also de has no unblokable strikes/interrupts to deal with some rangers, interrupt guardians hea;, it has only stealth and shadowstep as save skill, and some ok sustain, not good not bad, just ok. De is good for cutting noobs, on higher mmr u will be hardly punished for every time u left stealth.

Well I guess I just imagine being top 100 with it. I must be quite delusional. After all you cannot pewpew once a reflecting dome or swirling winds goes up on mid, so that match is pretty much over I guess.

  • And yes, de is useless, u just need one of: tempest, rev, hfb, or healscg (metasupps) and u wont be able to kill someone earlier than ur mates die. If de had potential someone would play it, but none of p2+ does,

Again, guess I don't exist.

de just a meme and taken for fun, what is rare at g3+. U could carry a game with this build before feb patch, but not now. Sadly, but i love playing sniper, and take it sometimes when we lack of sustain in team, but it easily countered, espesially if enemies can rotate. U can play prorely and just got smashed by some mirage + dp thief that has far more mobility than u for +1.

For some reason, this is not just your opinion, almost everyone thinks this way. Either they are too lazy to properly learn DE, or I'm a uniquely gifted PvP god. As much as I want to think it's the latter, reality is people just don't want to put in effort into a lame looking pew-pew. Just say you don't want to play it.

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@Lighter.5631 said:stealth/teleport on a ranged nuke will never be a thing, because it's just toxictry warrior killshot, the real sniper with real risks. DE has basically 0 risk.

Ironically of the 2, DE has far more risk. Killshot warrior is still Warrior, a class with blocks evades and decent healing. If a thief, a rev or any other mobile class jumps on you, or another ranged class attacks you, you can manage. If the same happens to a DE? He is dead unless he burns shadowstep.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Let me explain a few things here:

  1. Rifle used to have unblockable on DJ. It was nerfed because everyone complained about it.
  2. Deadeye was never good in high tiered pvp even before the several nerfs, because its entire design prevents it from ever being able to stand on a node. It's great in WvW, terrible in SPvP, always has been. The reasons why it's bad have nothing to do with the mechanical components you were trying to examine. It simply cannot stand on a node. If a DE tries to stand on a node, it's like he's putting a big red bulls eye on his head and saying "Hey, I'm right here, come teleport-burst or sic em-burst me." and that's exactly what will happen if he stands there on the node. And even if an excellent DE is attempting to fight to defend a node, he has to stealth so often, that he will immediately lose the node anyway, and be forced to allow an opponent to cap it. DE is inherently bad in conquest because it essentially leaves its team 4v5 when it comes to the node play. Even if it was OP in terms of statistical value in combat, it would still suck in conquest play for that reason.
  3. Deadeye is always going to suck in conquest. If you want you play that specialization, chew on that, swallow it, digest it, and accept it now. Deadeye, just like Ranger, has 1500 ranged projectile play. Guild Wars 2 players absolutely hate ranged play. It doesn't matter how underpowered longbows or thief rifle becomes, you will still always see threads written where people are complaining about a thief rifle, because it is able to hit them from 1500 range from a ledge, and their warrior can't brawl with it. The majority of the GW2 pvp player base has a misunderstanding of what is actually overpowered & overperforming and what is annoying them. Regardless, Arenanet listens to these kinds of complaint threads and wallah, this is why no one plays Deadeye competitively anymore. And things will stay that way, I'll guarantee you that.

Exactly why deadeye is a niche play, but it's totally viable in a lot of ranked games.As deadeye, your only job is to kill people, that's why you're there. That's how you compensate for not being able to hold any nodes and not doing the classic thief job.

Making projectiles unblockable is just allowing DE to overperform without any skills in ranked IMO.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Let me explain a few things here:

  1. Rifle used to have unblockable on DJ. It was nerfed because everyone complained about it.
  2. Deadeye was never good in high tiered pvp even before the several nerfs, because its entire design prevents it from ever being able to stand on a node. It's great in WvW, terrible in SPvP, always has been. The reasons why it's bad have nothing to do with the mechanical components you were trying to examine. It simply cannot stand on a node. If a DE tries to stand on a node, it's like he's putting a big red bulls eye on his head and saying "Hey, I'm right here, come teleport-burst or sic em-burst me." and that's exactly what will happen if he stands there on the node. And even if an excellent DE is attempting to fight to defend a node, he has to stealth so often, that he will immediately lose the node anyway, and be forced to allow an opponent to cap it. DE is inherently bad in conquest because it essentially leaves its team 4v5 when it comes to the node play. Even if it was OP in terms of statistical value in combat, it would still suck in conquest play for that reason.
  3. Deadeye is always going to suck in conquest. If you want you play that specialization, chew on that, swallow it, digest it, and accept it now. Deadeye, just like Ranger, has 1500 ranged projectile play. Guild Wars 2 players absolutely hate ranged play. It doesn't matter how underpowered longbows or thief rifle becomes, you will still always see threads written where people are complaining about a thief rifle, because it is able to hit them from 1500 range from a ledge, and their warrior can't brawl with it. The majority of the GW2 pvp player base has a misunderstanding of what is actually overpowered & overperforming and what is annoying them. Regardless, Arenanet listens to these kinds of complaint threads and wallah, this is why no one plays Deadeye competitively anymore. And things will stay that way, I'll guarantee you that.

a long ranged spec to be balanced have to be bad at close range and/or unable to continuos disengaging, you have your oportunoty while you keep enemy at range, but if enemy can tank/dodge your dmg and get to your close range you are almost dead period... but ranger have gs that is a good weapon set not a bad one that only serves to capitalize the possible health advantage you get from your long range atack and DE have spam stealth and reset. Thats the problem not just being annoying

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@megilandil.7506 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Let me explain a few things here:
  1. Rifle used to have unblockable on DJ. It was nerfed because everyone complained about it.
  2. Deadeye was never good in high tiered pvp even before the several nerfs, because its entire design prevents it from ever being able to stand on a node. It's great in WvW, terrible in SPvP, always has been. The reasons why it's bad have nothing to do with the mechanical components you were trying to examine. It simply cannot stand on a node. If a DE tries to stand on a node, it's like he's putting a big red bulls eye on his head and saying "Hey, I'm right here, come teleport-burst or sic em-burst me." and that's exactly what will happen if he stands there on the node. And even if an excellent DE is attempting to fight to defend a node, he has to stealth so often, that he will immediately lose the node anyway, and be forced to allow an opponent to cap it. DE is inherently bad in conquest because it essentially leaves its team 4v5 when it comes to the node play. Even if it was OP in terms of statistical value in combat, it would still suck in conquest play for that reason.
  3. Deadeye is always going to suck in conquest. If you want you play that specialization, chew on that, swallow it, digest it, and accept it now. Deadeye, just like Ranger, has 1500 ranged projectile play. Guild Wars 2 players absolutely hate ranged play. It doesn't matter how underpowered longbows or thief rifle becomes, you will still always see threads written where people are complaining about a thief rifle, because it is able to hit them from 1500 range from a ledge, and their warrior can't brawl with it.
    The majority of the GW2 pvp player base has a misunderstanding of what is actually overpowered & overperforming and what is annoying them.
    Regardless, Arenanet listens to these kinds of complaint threads and wallah, this is why no one plays Deadeye competitively anymore. And things will stay that way, I'll guarantee you that.

a long ranged spec to be balanced have to be bad at close range and/or unable to continuos disengaging, you have your oportunoty while you keep enemy at range, but if enemy can tank/dodge your dmg and get to your close range you are almost dead period... but ranger have gs that is a good weapon set not a bad one that only serves to capitalize the possible health advantage you get from your long range atack and DE have spam stealth and reset. Thats the problem not just being annoying

There is no problem. There are only people who get annoyed by 1500 range, regardless of how much the thing sucks that's shooting at them with 1500 range. Deadeyes haven't been seen in any competitive AT team in years, and you don't see them in the top 100 anymore either. There are big reasons why concerning all of the direct nerfing it has received, along with how everything in the game now has reveals and instant cast teleports. Deadeye is right down in the bottom 3 least effective conquest specs to choose from. It's right there with Berserker and Druid. End of story.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Let me explain a few things here:
  1. Rifle used to have unblockable on DJ. It was nerfed because everyone complained about it.
  2. Deadeye was never good in high tiered pvp even before the several nerfs, because its entire design prevents it from ever being able to stand on a node. It's great in WvW, terrible in SPvP, always has been. The reasons why it's bad have nothing to do with the mechanical components you were trying to examine. It simply cannot stand on a node. If a DE tries to stand on a node, it's like he's putting a big red bulls eye on his head and saying "Hey, I'm right here, come teleport-burst or sic em-burst me." and that's exactly what will happen if he stands there on the node. And even if an excellent DE is attempting to fight to defend a node, he has to stealth so often, that he will immediately lose the node anyway, and be forced to allow an opponent to cap it. DE is inherently bad in conquest because it essentially leaves its team 4v5 when it comes to the node play. Even if it was OP in terms of statistical value in combat, it would still suck in conquest play for that reason.
  3. Deadeye is always going to suck in conquest. If you want you play that specialization, chew on that, swallow it, digest it, and accept it now. Deadeye, just like Ranger, has 1500 ranged projectile play. Guild Wars 2 players absolutely hate ranged play. It doesn't matter how underpowered longbows or thief rifle becomes, you will still always see threads written where people are complaining about a thief rifle, because it is able to hit them from 1500 range from a ledge, and their warrior can't brawl with it.
    The majority of the GW2 pvp player base has a misunderstanding of what is actually overpowered & overperforming and what is annoying them.
    Regardless, Arenanet listens to these kinds of complaint threads and wallah, this is why no one plays Deadeye competitively anymore. And things will stay that way, I'll guarantee you that.

a long ranged spec to be balanced have to be bad at close range and/or unable to continuos disengaging, you have your oportunoty while you keep enemy at range, but if enemy can tank/dodge your dmg and get to your close range you are almost dead period... but ranger have gs that is a good weapon set not a bad one that only serves to capitalize the possible health advantage you get from your long range atack and DE have spam stealth and reset. Thats the problem not just being annoying

There is no problem. There are only people who get annoyed by 1500 range, regardless of how much the thing sucks that's shooting at them with 1500 range. Deadeyes haven't been seen in any competitive AT team in years, and you don't see them in the top 100 anymore either. There are big reasons why concerning all of the direct nerfing it has received, along with how everything in the game now has reveals and instant cast teleports. Deadeye is right down in the bottom 3 least effective conquest specs to choose from. It's right there with Berserker and Druid. End of story.

The 1500/1200 range shooting has never been the issue...nobody ever complained about range shooting when it's easy to neutralize it, you don't see people ever complaining about staff ele for a reason. Now when you have traits like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Binding_Shadow -https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devourer_Venom

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DE is potential cancer like the rest of the POF specks, too much RP and PVE DPS, not enough good non toxic mechanics for PVP. What is holding it back is the rest of the thief builds, biggest counter to thief is a thief or shiro revenant(thief with guardian/warrior abilities).DE is a teamfight/roamer speck and not being able to hold nodes by itself is ok, but having a thief in that position means that there is no decapper for your team and most probably the other team has the other types of thieves. So DE shares the position with Reaper which one ups it by being able to hold nodes for some time till help arrives or die miserably if it doesn't. Also DE needs something to draw attention so it can pew pew and kill people.It is off meta elite that needs off meta team comp that is build around it to work or the other team doesn't have the porty classes and they end up farmed cause they can't stop the DE at all.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:stealth/teleport on a ranged nuke will never be a thing, because it's just toxictry warrior killshot, the real sniper with real risks. DE has basically 0 risk.

Ironically of the 2, DE has far more risk. Killshot warrior is still Warrior, a class with blocks evades and decent healing. If a thief, a rev or any other mobile class jumps on you, or another ranged class attacks you, you can manage. If the same happens to a DE? He is dead unless he burns shadowstep.

now you are just pulling BS out of your ass.i play DE exclusively in wvw for how risk free it is, DE easily be double the sustain a rifle warrior has.clearly you have no idea what you talking about either DE nor killshot warrior.when you are a squishy build, no amount of healing/evade will save you from being focused except mobility and stealth.

heres a recommendation, before you ever make comparsion, try them.

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