Spolier* What happend to our warband? Spolier*

[Ritojana.2854]

Fellow Charr players, as you may have noticed in Drizzlewood Coast there's an event called defeat the Cache Keeper. Some of the champions in this event are actually our warband members depending on which legion we chose during the character creation. There's Luccia Wildeye from the Iron Legion, Elexus Shredskin from the Blood Legion and Yahuk Fellstrike from the Ash Legion. It's the first time we meet a member from our warband since the lvl 30 personal story. So what happend to our warband and why are they members in the dominion? Furthermore, since we have already met one of our warband members, does that also mean in the future that we will meet the acting legionnare and our sparring partner? And which side will it be on?

[Kalavier.1097]

From what I have read, Charr players will encounter their sparring Partner inside the main camp, who talks to them about the warbands defection/destruction after being rebuilt.

[draxynnic.3719]

Honestly, it's an extension of the "the PC never does anything apart from what is shown directly on-screen" principle that annoys me with ArenaNet a bit. If a charr PC was spending any time at all with their warband beyond level 20, the fact that the champion of Aurene is a member of their own warband and someone who's possibly discussed the actual nature of their relationship with Aurene over a drink or two should really have made the PC's warband pretty much inoculated against what Bangar was peddling. This was an opportunity to bring the warband NPCs back into play, but they really should have been on the United Legions side rather than as enemies.

Make it so that for PCs that didn't meet them in their own personal story, they just say that the leader of their warband is with the Pact and has told them enough that they know not to believe Bangar.

Would be much more satisfying than implying that charr PCs have been neglecting their warbands as much as ArenaNet has.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Kalavier.1097 said:From what I have read, Charr players will encounter their sparring Partner inside the main camp, who talks to them about the warbands defection/destruction after being rebuilt.

This is the short of it. The dialogue is the same for all sparring partners, and they basically said that under their leadership they couldn't manage to recruit [many] more members, suffered some deaths, and eventually at least one defection.

Basically, the lack of the charr PC being around combined with the less-than-good leadership of the sparring partner led to disillusionment.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Honestly, it's an extension of the "the PC never does anything apart from what is shown directly on-screen" principle that annoys me with ArenaNet a bit. If a charr PC was spending any time at all with their warband beyond level 20, the fact that the champion of Aurene is a member of their own warband and someone who's possibly discussed the actual nature of their relationship with Aurene over a drink or two should really have made the PC's warband pretty much inoculated against what Bangar was peddling. This was an opportunity to bring the warband NPCs back into play, but they really should have been on the United Legions side rather than as enemies.

Make it so that for PCs that didn't meet them in their own personal story, they just say that the leader of their warband is with the Pact and has told them enough that they know not to believe Bangar.

Would be much more satisfying than implying that charr PCs have been neglecting their warbands as much as ArenaNet has.

Personal headcanon, but I cannot fathom the charr PC not meeting up with the warband during Flame and Frost events and the moment they return during Season 2. It does seem that for PoF+S4, the PC never leaves Elona canonically until Thunderhead Keep, and until Joko's death communications with Central Tyria would be pretty much impossible. So neglecting does make sense during that timeframe. Same for the months from S2E3 to the end of HoT as well, but in-between HoT and S3 there was a good year of no real activity (that time gap does bother me a bit, given S3 begins with Eir's memorial - did it really take 7 months to set up a memorial for Eir?).

That said, even if we are just considering S3-and-later as being little to no contact, that could be enough with years with only off-and-on contact and the sparring partner being a not-so-great leader. The act of the three betrayals also highlights the harm of the civil war and how even level-headed charr are falling for Bangar and, it would seem given some dialogue in Drizzlewood, even Jormag's whispers are active in the area but not to the Commander.

[draxynnic.3719]

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Honestly, it's an extension of the "the PC never does anything apart from what is shown directly on-screen" principle that annoys me with ArenaNet a bit. If a charr PC was spending any time at all with their warband beyond level 20, the fact that the champion of Aurene is a member

of their own warband

and someone who's possibly discussed the actual nature of their relationship with Aurene over a drink or two should really have made the PC's warband pretty much inoculated against what Bangar was peddling. This was an opportunity to bring the warband NPCs back into play, but they really should have been on the United Legions side rather than as enemies.

Make it so that for PCs that didn't meet them in their own personal story, they just say that the leader of their warband is with the Pact and has told them enough that they know not to believe Bangar.

Would be much more satisfying than implying that charr PCs have been neglecting their warbands as much as ArenaNet has.

Personal headcanon, but I

cannot

fathom the charr PC not meeting up with the warband during Flame and Frost events and the moment they return during Season 2. It does seem that for PoF+S4, the PC never leaves Elona canonically until Thunderhead Keep, and until Joko's death communications with Central Tyria would be pretty much impossible. So neglecting

does

make sense during that timeframe. Same for the months from S2E3 to the end of HoT as well, but in-between HoT and S3 there was a good year of no real activity (that time gap

does

bother me a bit, given S3 begins with Eir's memorial - did it really take 7 months to set up a memorial for Eir?).

That said, even if we are just considering S3-and-later as being little to no contact, that could be enough with years with only off-and-on contact and the sparring partner being a not-so-great leader. The act of the three betrayals also highlights the harm of the civil war and how even level-headed charr are falling for Bangar and, it would seem given some dialogue in Drizzlewood, even Jormag's whispers are active in the area but not to the Commander.

I'm not sure about the Commander being stuck in Elona the whole time, given that there are the invasion events, Halloween, and so on to deal with - but that might be a distinction between fluff and gameplay.

But it's pretty much unbelievable in my mind that a charr commander wouldn't have checked in with the warband around the time of the prologue, and taken the time afterwards to correct the warband on what Bangar is saying. If we were looking at random warband members recruited after the Commander left, sure, but you get Elexus and Yahuk out of sufficiently bad circumstances that you'd expect the PC to have some goodwill to be believed over Bangar's gasbagging.

I get that they're trying to show how the civil war has been tearing warbands apart by making it personal, but I think this was a clumsy way of doing it.

[Genesis.8572]

It's worth pointing out that both Elexus and Yahuk were both Blood legion before being recruited by the Blood and Ash PCs, respectively. Do they have more reason to believe the PC over Bangar? Potentially. But there may also be some strong deeply-embedded loyalties and ideologies surrounding Blood Legion, the Treat of Ebonhawke, and other issues as well.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"draxynnic.3719" said:But it's pretty much unbelievable in my mind that a charr commander wouldn't have checked in with the warband around the time of the prologue, and taken the time afterwards to correct the warband on what Bangar is saying. If we were looking at random warband members recruited after the Commander left, sure, but you get Elexus and Yahuk out of sufficiently bad circumstances that you'd expect the PC to have some goodwill to be believed over Bangar's gasbagging.I doubt the warband would have been present. The rally was pretty much invite only and it isn't like all of the four legions were present, and the PC's warband was situated in Ascalon.

Unless their superior tribunes/imperators specifically brought them along, or for some reason they were stationed up north after the events of the PS, they wouldn't have been there.

As to that goodwill - saving them from a bad situation won't surpass several years of what could no doubt be viewed as desertion. Even taking the idea that the last moment of contact was between HoT and S3 (the last reasonable timeframelack of any story content in Ascalon) besides some letters, that's ~5 years of no contact, after 3 years of being away on an extended mission to liaison with the Orders (something the commander no longer does regardless of race) with only intermittent interactions.

By this point, the warbands' loyalties would be more towards the sparring partner than the PC, and if the sparring partner was a poor leader...

Not to mention Elexus and Yahuk, despite being gladium thanks to the Flame, are/were originally Blood. So those two are more likely to turn than Luccia, imo, especially if they have a view of "legion above warband" mentality that some charr do have (and both seem to, given the circumstances of their recruitment).

IMO, the poor storytelling here isn't that those three defected, it's that we don't know enough of why they defected - there is plenty compelling reasons for them to (less for Luccia mind you), but all we really get is "the sparring partner wasn't a good enough leader to keep them in line after some warband deaths".

[draxynnic.3719]

The warband might not have been present at Grothmar, but remember that we get to Grothmar via the Black Citadel, and afterwards we go into episode 1 from the Black Citadel. So there's a couple of opportunities there.

Like I said, it feels like the typical ArenaNet "gotcha" of focusing on the big important stories because the downtime isn't interesting from an MMORPG perspective, and then assuming that the PC is doing nothing and not paying attention to anything in that downtime, and then berating the player character for not attending to things that the developers never game the player the chance to do anything. It's something that goes back to GW1 (which had years between Factions and Nightfall, and years between Nightfall and EOTN, but in that time even Canthan PCs apparently didn't care about what was happening in their homeland and just washed their hands of everything after downing Shiro), and every time they do it it feels like it undermines the character and, in some cases, even makes them come across as incompetent.

It's understandable that ArenaNet doesn't want to spend a lot of resources dealing with the warbands when most PCs don't have a warband, but I'm getting a little tired of ArenaNet assuming that the PC is just sleeping through everything that doesn't happen under their spotlight.

[EMPI.4013]

I always thought Jormag was the one who corrupted our warband members. I mean Jormag managed to temporarily corrupt Crecia and Rytlock right in front of us. Perhaps our warband was weak willed.

[aymnad.9023]

I always missed my original warband. The charr personal story has always been my favorite. The characters had so much personality. I always wanted to see them again. So whenever we had characters from the personal story ( like Galina / Snarl the female from blood and the old male from ash ) I would be happy.

I noticed a boss looking like Luccia but when I noticed Reeva I was sure of it. Dominion seems to attract those who were gladiums so it makes sense. Even if this is sad news I am still really thankful that those characters have made it to somewhere else in the game. As happy as finding about the olmakhan doing magic since you see charr elementalists during the first mission and then they vanished for years. (a bit like our warband) (but now we finally have flame which I also wanted for a long time yay)

I am really looking forward the voice acting in this episode.

[Kulvar.1239]

@"draxynnic.3719" said:The warband might not have been present at Grothmar, but remember that we get to Grothmar via the Black Citadel, and afterwards we go into episode 1 from the Black Citadel. So there's a couple of opportunities there.

Like I said, it feels like the typical ArenaNet "gotcha" of focusing on the big important stories because the downtime isn't interesting from an MMORPG perspective, and then assuming that the PC is doing nothing and not paying attention to anything in that downtime, and then berating the player character for not attending to things that the developers never game the player the chance to do anything. It's something that goes back to GW1 (which had years between Factions and Nightfall, and years between Nightfall and EOTN, but in that time even Canthan PCs apparently didn't care about what was happening in their homeland and just washed their hands of everything after downing Shiro), and every time they do it it feels like it undermines the character and, in some cases, even makes them come across as incompetent.

It's understandable that ArenaNet doesn't want to spend a lot of resources dealing with the warbands when most PCs don't have a warband, but I'm getting a little tired of ArenaNet assuming that the PC is just sleeping through everything that doesn't happen under their spotlight.

I disagree, downtimes are important to let the tension settle so the new threats can get the proper tension back. Otherwise, people get dulled from constant tension.

[Jimbru.6014]

Elexus and Yahuk were both former Blood Legion, so their choosing to follow Bangar is kinda natural.

Luccia was former Iron Legion. Iron also suffered many defections thanks to Smodur's heavy handed "leadership". Luccia also was an older Charr, possibly of the same generation as Bangar, so maybe she shared his inherited generational attitudes.

What's missing to me is that all the action with our warband happened off screen. We meet our sparring partner in the camp, the "fixed" choice for each legion defected, and the "selectable" third member is not seen; from our sparring partner's dialogue, it's likely that the last one is dead. It would have been nice if we had been able to play through some of those events, or even prevent them; the absence of our warband (and Asura krewes, by the way) is one of the bigger weaknesses of our long personal story IMHO.

But at the same time, I get why they kept that off screen, because it would kinda leave the other races out of the story.

Speaking of story, it's also worth noting that this breakup of the warband effectively frees our Charr characters from their last anchor in the traditional Charr social structure. The Commander has always been independent operative of Centurion rank, but now is also sort of a gladium. Our sparring partner is all we seem to have left. What may come from that development remains to be seen.

[Jimbru.6014]

@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:I always thought Jormag was the one who corrupted our warband members. I mean Jormag managed to temporarily corrupt Crecia and Rytlock right in front of us. Perhaps our warband was weak willed.

It's also a bit of a guilt trip aimed at our toons. The warband fell apart without us there to guide them.

[EdwinLi.1284]

Ya sadly some of the warband for Charr origin character have either died or defected with the only one left loyal to the commander being their chosen origin partner.

Cerosi Breaksteel, Elexus Shredskin, Luccia Wildeye, and Yahuk Fellstrike are found in events being cache guards in the map.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

This update added journals to the cache champions:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Luccia%27s_Journalhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Yahuk%27s_Journalhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elexus%27s_Journal

TL;DR

• Luccia felt unneeded by the warband after PC left, Ranoah basically recruited her with the new devourer tank, and Jormag whispers pushed her into falling into Ranoah and the Dominion.
• Yahuk was too Blood to get along and work as Ash, didn't trust Aurene to be good, and felt like Bangar was doing what the PC should do/does.
• Thought sparring partner was trying to play big shot and getting warband killed, then pulled up by Bangar and Crecia and given praise, followed by meeting Veshen and effectively being recruited by her.

All three hint (some very heavily) that they are indeed Steel Warband recruits from the vision, and the story is basically that while the Commander was away, Bangar, Steel, and Jormag got their hooks into them.

[Wolfb.7025]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:This update added journals to the cache champions:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Luccia%27s_Journalhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Yahuk%27s_Journalhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elexus%27s_Journal

TL;DR

• Luccia felt unneeded by the warband after PC left, Ranoah basically recruited her with the new devourer tank, and Jormag whispers pushed her into falling into Ranoah and the Dominion.
• Yahuk was too Blood to get along and work as Ash, didn't trust Aurene to be good, and felt like Bangar was doing what the PC should do/does.
• Thought sparring partner was trying to play big shot and getting warband killed, then pulled up by Bangar and Crecia and given praise, followed by meeting Veshen and effectively being recruited by her.

All three hint (some very heavily) that they are indeed Steel Warband recruits from the vision, and the story is basically that while the Commander was away, Bangar, Steel, and Jormag got their hooks into them.

Nice, this is a good insight. I was thinking on how lame it was from anet just putting your old warband members as enemies and make you kill them just to dispose of these neglected story characters. but now it makes sense. its really appreciated to have some backstory of such minor characters.

Offtopic, I think charr player characters have lost the most out of all races. It starts with you losing 5 warband members, and as soon as you move to join the orders, you have to part ways as the leggionaire of your small newly made warband. I don't think other races had to leave so much behind in order to join in the battle against Zhaitan.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@Wolfb.7025 said:

Nice, this is a good insight. I was thinking on how lame it was from anet just putting your old warband members as enemies and make you kill them just to dispose of these neglected story characters. but now it makes sense. its really appreciated to have some backstory of such minor characters.

Offtopic, I think charr player characters have lost the most out of all races. It starts with you losing 5 warband members, and as soon as you move to join the orders, you have to part ways as the leggionaire of your small newly made warband. I don't think other races had to leave so much behind in order to join in the battle against Zhaitan.

I am honestly still surprised how the Charr player's warband never showed up in the Zhaitan arc. Considering the Pact during the Zhaitan Arc was literally gathering every single asset from all races to join them beyond the pact, heck they got the Human Origin story characters to return for one of the Zhaitan Arc story path, to fight Zhaitan.

[Wolfb.7025]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Wolfb.7025" said:

Nice, this is a good insight. I was thinking on how lame it was from anet just putting your old warband members as enemies and make you kill them just to dispose of these neglected story characters. but now it makes sense. its really appreciated to have some backstory of such minor characters.

Offtopic, I think charr player characters have lost the most out of all races. It starts with you losing 5 warband members, and as soon as you move to join the orders, you have to part ways as the leggionaire of your small newly made warband. I don't think other races had to leave so much behind in order to join in the battle against Zhaitan.

I am honestly still surprised how the Charr player's warband never showed up in the Zhaitan arc. Considering the Pact during the Zhaitan Arc was literally gathering every single asset from all races to join them beyond the pact, heck they got the Human Origin story characters to return for one of the Zhaitan Arc story path, to fight Zhaitan.Uhm, you get Galina and Snarl to help you, which are characters from the Iron Legion Charr Storyline. You have to "recruit them" on the Vigil Storyline though. not sure if that's a requisite to see them on the battle against Zhaithan and in the lv80 ending.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@Wolfb.7025 said:

@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@Wolfb.7025 said:

Nice, this is a good insight. I was thinking on how lame it was from anet just putting your old warband members as enemies and make you kill them just to dispose of these neglected story characters. but now it makes sense. its really appreciated to have some backstory of such minor characters.

Offtopic, I think charr player characters have lost the most out of all races. It starts with you losing 5 warband members, and as soon as you move to join the orders, you have to part ways as the leggionaire of your small newly made warband. I don't think other races had to leave so much behind in order to join in the battle against Zhaitan.

I am honestly still surprised how the Charr player's warband never showed up in the Zhaitan arc. Considering the Pact during the Zhaitan Arc was literally gathering every single asset from all races to join them beyond the pact, heck they got the Human Origin story characters to return for one of the Zhaitan Arc story path, to fight Zhaitan.Uhm, you get Galina and Snarl to help you, which are characters from the Iron Legion Charr Storyline. You have to "recruit them" on the Vigil Storyline though. not sure if that's a requisite to see them on the battle against Zhaithan and in the lv80 ending.

They will join the Pact in the Zhaitan arc regardless of recruiting them or not. The character recruiting is more of a advance recruitment where they join earlier than the other characters.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@Wolfb.7025 said:

Nice, this is a good insight. I was thinking on how lame it was from anet just putting your old warband members as enemies and make you kill them just to dispose of these neglected story characters. but now it makes sense. its really appreciated to have some backstory of such minor characters.

Offtopic, I think charr player characters have lost the most out of all races. It starts with you losing 5 warband members, and as soon as you move to join the orders, you have to part ways as the leggionaire of your small newly made warband. I don't think other races had to leave so much behind in order to join in the battle against Zhaitan.

I am honestly still surprised how the Charr player's warband never showed up in the Zhaitan arc. Considering the Pact during the Zhaitan Arc was literally gathering every single asset from all races to join them beyond the pact, heck they got the Human Origin story characters to return for one of the Zhaitan Arc story path, to fight Zhaitan.

The reason for why the warband doesn't show up in the later personal story is actually very simple - their survival and reformation is completely customizable. Any NPC that has a fate determined by the player's choices never show up in following story instances, especially in the personal story - I think that the charr warband showing up in Drizzlewood is the very first example of this happening, in fact.

Quinn, Tiachren, charr warband, Vallus Smokemane, Varkk, Kazz, and Doxa - these figures never show up or get mentioned again, because their survival is determined by the player's choices.

[Makion.3457]

I dont care, now I have an awesome shinny powerful Dragon by my side :D

[AzureShiron.7658]

The fact that they make you kill your friends, your brothers and sisters. Not even any voiced dialoge. They really do just constantly clown on charr players. Even after this your sparing partner doesnt do anything other than inform you that the warband is dead except for the two of you again.