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WvW Performance and Map Cap Testing


Cal Cohen.2358

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This change really only affects reset and the one or two queued maps at prime time.Pretty sure you can still get skill lag in 3 way blob fight while the map isn't queued out, although was in a some 3 ways on sat and didn't notice any skill lag.

Lag was actually reduced because necros hit less targets, and mirage has one less dodge to compute...... :)

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Lag definitely improved, but really sad that this is the solution.

Improving server performance would have been the CORRECT solution to the problem rather than adding to queues.

outta curiosity how much would the needed sever upgrades cost?

Any chance of starting a gofundme for this?

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@"Chaba.5410" said:I'll just add this old discussion here due to lots of technical information: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-state-of-skill-lag-and-server-optimizations/first

Also: "As far as skills just not executing (noticed some people claiming utilities are more susceptible to this), its mostly just a race-condition as far as processing on the server. You’ll notice that your auto-attack skill seems to process more reliably than other skills. This is mostly due to the fact that we process things like auto-attack timers before player input. Obviously that sounds like a bug (and honestly now that I think about it, I want to look into doing something about it), but the reality is that under normal circumstances, the player input would process before the auto-attack timer triggers. Something you can try to verify this is disabling your auto-attack and see if your other skills become more responsive."

TL;DR: Turn off your auto-attack! Haha!

That was a great link, thanks!

Like the linked thread it's also a matter for this one to make sure people are talking about the same latency issues and not confusing it with things like FPS.

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For those who have trouble distinguishing fps-drops, skill-lag and rubberbanding:

When you press a skill and it doesn't activate like normal, press esc (happens clientside so not affected by anet server load) and look at your ping (which you should check often to know what is normal for you).

If it's:a) Higher than normal - you will probably notice rubberbanding because it's your connection or packet loss causing it, the servers are not at faultb) Normal - you are experiencing skill lag and it has nothing to do with your connection since this is server wide

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Yesterday we had a short 3-side encounter and had skilllags.Blue had 3 guilds (average around 20 players per guild)Red had a zerg of 55-60Green had a zerg of 55-60It was only for a very short and single time that all 3 sides encountered each other with full numbers. But when it happened it caused skilllag.

At the same time I don't enjoy the reduced cap at all for a number of reasons (queue; filling up a squad when a lot of solo players are on a map; switching maps).So I would prefer having the mapcap back to normal again as soon as possible.

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@"rng.1024" said:a) Higher than normal - you will probably notice rubberbanding because it's your connection or packet loss causing it, the servers are not at faultErrr not true at all. Global rubberbanding on top of the skill lag when a third zerg approach 2 zergs clashing has been a major issue the last couple of years (with the noticable change that previously "only" skills lagged while movement was generally fine).

You kind of got a huge tell this is the case when 50 people on discord go "whoa you're warping all over the place" at the same time.

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@"Dovahkiin from HighRock.4682" said:

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,[...]

We’re planning to run some tests to see what performance gains we can get by reducing the total number of players on the map. [...]

None , RTX 2070+ i7-8700 + fiber+ ssd --> 13 FPS, ping 110+ in EB No improvement in fps (normal ping is 20-40, 60fps)

Cal is talking about server-side performance, not your client-side.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"rng.1024" said:a) Higher than normal - you will probably notice rubberbanding because it's your connection or packet loss causing it, the servers are not at faultErrr not true at all. Global rubberbanding on top of the skill lag when a third zerg approach 2 zergs clashing has been a major issue the last couple of years (with the noticable change that previously "only" skills lagged while movement was generally fine).

You
kind of
got a huge tell this is the case when 50 people on discord go "whoa you're warping all over the place" at the same time.

I have been playing WvW with a stable connection and low ping for years during primetime in tier 1-3 EU.

Like you say, rubberbanding is clientside so all 50 see you flying around the place because you are the one with the bad connection. Conversely you will also see everyone else move sporadically for the same reasons, mass rubberbanding never was a thing.

However this isn't about feelings. This is about hard facts that can be used to determine the cause of lag, and with 100% accuracy you will have skill lag without ping spike every time - which of course isn't true the other way around as you point out.

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@rng.1024 said:Like you say, rubberbanding is clientside so all 50 see you flying around the place because you are the one with the bad connection. Conversely you will also see everyone else move sporadically for the same reasons, mass rubberbanding never was a thing.Except when everyone is seeing everyone rubberband at the same time when they approach the same enemy zerg repeatedly. Note repeatedly.

Thats not clientside and nothing you can say change that fact.

Is there players locally rubberbanding too? Yes I've heard plenty of people note they are rubberbanding when I see them rubberband and no one else. Thats another thing.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@rng.1024 said:Like you say, rubberbanding is clientside so all 50 see you flying around the place because
you
are the one with the bad connection. Conversely you will also see everyone else move sporadically for the same reasons, mass rubberbanding never was a thing.Except when
everyone
is seeing
everyone
rubberband
at the same time
when they approach
the same enemy zerg repeatedly
. Note
repeatedly
.

Thats
not
clientside and nothing you can say change that fact.

Is there players locally rubberbanding too? Yes I've heard plenty of people note they are rubberbanding when I see
them
rubberband and no one else. Thats another thing.

Again, tier 1-3 EU prime time (6-11) 7 days a week for 3 years, and it has never occured even once.

Unless you can get anyone else to confirm this, it's still just a fringe case on your end that has nothing to do with server lag but rather packet loss on your end.

The only way you make sense is if you consider skill-lag the same as rubberbanding. There's a big difference, where rubberbanding will consistently delay each action/movement by the same time interval every time, preceded by a ping spike.

Skill lag on the other hand will sporadically backlog what you do and try to execute everything at once when there is an opportunity - without any ping increase. And only skills at that simply because client position reporting has the highest priority possible in server calculation. This is why you always see skill lag before more egregious effects, like structure-portals not working.

I'm not saying you and maybe a few others haven't experienced packet loss at the same time and shared the reaction, I'm just saying that my extensive observations does not back it up at all. You never bring up your ping either, which is the only thing that can tell if your connection is sour or the server is, which makes the whole argument questionable at best.

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Hello Anet devs, what will happen now that we've been through this 1 week of testing? I hope we hear results/plans and not a sudden disappearance not to be mentioned again. I really want something to come out of this.Now I'm getting lag T1 NA. Are the map caps etc still on? Are they taking it off only at EU reset or before that happens?

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Unless you can get anyone else to confirm this, it's still just a fringe case on your end that has nothing to do with server lag but rather packet loss on your end.

I've had a few cases previously during large fights where my position, even on my own screen, is rubber banding constantly. It's a completely different behaviour to the usual bad connection where it would only make you look like you were rubber banding to others. In those cases it effected everyone in squad and not just me, as well as skill lag.

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@Deniara Devious.3948 said:For the technically minded: I thought the player amount and required computations would scale by square (power of 2), but it seems to grow cubic (power of 3) when 3 blobs are near each other.

It's probably a higher scaling function because there are more than just pairwise interactions here. For an example a warrior bubble or scourge breach can affect several people at once.

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@Murderous Clown.9723 said:

Unless you can get anyone else to confirm this, it's still just a fringe case on your end that has nothing to do with server lag but rather packet loss on your end.

I've had a few cases previously during large fights where my position, even on my own screen, is rubber banding constantly. It's a completely different behaviour to the usual bad connection where it would only make you look like you were rubber banding to others. In those cases it effected everyone in squad and not just me, as well as skill lag.

Yeah you should be the last to notice unless you use skills while it's catching up. Depending on the severety of packet loss (anet once had me run a test), this is known to happen.

It's natural everyone else will see you teleport though. And the thing about packet loss is it can affect your local ISP, your ISP as a whole, a region of a country, and depending on server location whole countries at the same time - but they all have one thing in common, they increase your server response time (ping) regardless.

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@briggah.7910 said:reset NA spent first 40 mins in EoTM. then 1 hour in EBG. no skill lag but 1 spike for a few seconds. 19 in queue took 40 mins to get into EBG

Yes. Before the map capping test, during the first hour on reset days, we have map queues only in one and maybe two maps. Two map queues was very rare. And even then the queue is short, like less than 20. And, there are days where there is no queue at all on all maps just 30 mins after reset.

Yesterday's reset? WOW!All maps were on queue and some even as high as 40+ in queue. I didn't know that 7 is such a magical number...

edit: I told youu ♫

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