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LS1 creates a huge gap


yukarishura.4790

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Hello, I just finished all living world stories (besides ls1 because you cannot purchase it) but it feels like there is a huge gap in the story because you cannot get to know taimi and the others without the lore of ls1, which ofc I googled and looked up on wikipedia but it doesn't feel enough imo. I also did the episodes in the scrying pool in EoN but yeah..it's kind of confusing for new players.

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@yukarishura.4790 said:Hello, I just finished all living world stories (besides ls1 because you cannot purchase it) but it feels like there is a huge gap in the story because you cannot get to know taimi and the others without the lore of ls1, which ofc I googled and looked up on wikipedia but it doesn't feel enough imo. I also did the episodes in the scrying pool in EoN but yeah..it's kind of confusing for new players.It does, yes.But the S1 content was really much lower quality than the current stuff. The scrying pool shows that very plainly.The playerbase is much better served by just getting over this than seeing yet more developer resources spent on unfun, unrewarding, clunky missions who's purpose is only to fill a gap in the story.Getting to know Taimi isn't worth it.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Everyone agrees with you. :) Except for those who hated Season 1. ;)

Not true. I hated Season 1, but I've campaigned for it's full return for years.Same here. But it needs to return in a proper form and not hidden behind Season 5 content. Fun or not, as @mindcircus.1506 points out it doesn't age greatly (same can be said for PS and S2 though, and S1>PS in several ways), but it should be there.

You wouldn't watch Lord of the Rings while skipping The Two Towers. You wouldn't watch the Star Wars original trilogy while skipping Empire Strikes Back. No one would enjoy the stories then. There's no reason why players should be incapable of playing Season 1.

I would like more than half-assed attempts in bringing them back, e.g., having once-per-character rewards instead of once-per-account or having minor rebalancing to fix issues that weren't an issue when the content was around for merely 2 weeks, but I'd take a proper half-assed attempt that puts the instances in the story journal in order over what Visions of the Past provided.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:You wouldn't watch Lord of the Rings while skipping The Two Towers. You wouldn't watch the Star Wars original trilogy while skipping Empire Strikes Back. No one would enjoy the stories then.This would be an apt comparison if Empire and Two Towers were awful films, written and directed by Uwe Boll, and made for 1/10th of the budget of the originals. If either of these stories were so bad that you sat there watching with the impression that the were being made up as they went along, then sure.But those are pretty decent movies.You can certainly watch the Star Trek movies without watching Final Frontier. Your enjoyment of the series would likely increase by skipping it.There's no reason why players should be incapable of playing Season 1.There are many reasons.The objectively bad quality of the narrative and execution is just one.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:You wouldn't watch Lord of the Rings while skipping The Two Towers. You wouldn't watch the Star Wars original trilogy while skipping Empire Strikes Back. No one would enjoy the stories then.This would be an apt comparison if Empire and Two Towers were awful films, written and directed by Uwe Boll, and made for 1/10th of the budget of the originals. If either of these stories were so bad that you sat there watching with the impression that the were being made up as they went along, then sure.But those are pretty decent movies.You can certainly watch the Star Trek movies without watching Final Frontier. Your enjoyment of the series would likely increase by skipping it.Unlike Star Trek movies, the GW2 story is a singular narrative, not disconnected plots featuring the same cast and only sometimes loosely connected. Quality of the individual release isn't as important as the fact that there is a continuity issue for new players and has been since 2014, with players both old and new constantly requesting Season 1's story to be made permanent.

You can take the same argument I used for any middle-of-a-series/movie that has a singular joined plot. To understand what the fuck's happening in Season 2, you NEED to know the contents of Season 1. And even ArenaNet knows this, because they put a half-assed summary into the game (that barely even covers 1/3rd of it).

There's no reason why players should be incapable of playing Season 1.There are many reasons.The objectively bad quality of the narrative and execution is just one.The narrative's very much subjective. The execution was fine for its time but like the personal story and season 2, did not age well. Are you then suggesting that ANet should remove the personal story or Season 2, or that players should objectively skip those plots all the time and just begin with Heart of Thorns? The worst part of the execution was that it was temporary content.

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I'm very much in the "Season One was terrible but they should still bring it back" camp. The OP might be interested in the fanmade movie version on YouTube:

Personally I found watching the movie preferable to reading about it on the Wiki. (I played about half of Season One, I think, but since it was bad I moved onto other games - so I watched the movie to fill in the gap when I eventually came back to GW2.)

If I recall correctly, many of the important characters weren't really introduced properly in the game anyway, they just turned up without explanation. They also barely interacted with your player character (who I think had no lines?) until Season Two, when they suddenly started calling you "boss". So it didn't really help me get to know or care about those characters.

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Instance-based Living Season 1 is possible.Or even better as seperate zones in the mists as part of 'visions of the past' similar to Forging Steel ( we could even visit full Old Lion Arch in the Mists!!! =) ).But again, crazy time we live in right now. Even if developers will take upon that task, it will take alot of time.

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The scrying pool shows that replaying random lws1 instances without context is a really, REALLY bad idea.

I think the Lws1 recap and the scrying pool were a cool idea in theory, but fumbled on the execution. I think it would have been cool if the devs took artistic license, and made some instances that told a story of how we got from PS to lws2, and why we should care about this "new" cast of characters.

Reading the wiki or watching fanmade videos endears me as much as reading plot spoilers.

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The in game story is incomplete. It should be completed, high quality or not. I would even be satisfied if they made it possible to watch that player made video in game. I love replaying the story on new characters until I hit that point. I then take a break and pick it up a few weeks later and treat it like GW3 so that having to read the plot on the wiki feels more acceptable because it happened "between games."

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  • 3 weeks later...

@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:I'm very much in the "Season One was terrible but they should still bring it back" camp. The OP might be interested in the fanmade movie version on YouTube:

Personally I found watching the movie preferable to reading about it on the Wiki. (I played about half of Season One, I think, but since it was bad I moved onto other games - so I watched the movie to fill in the gap when I eventually came back to GW2.)

If I recall correctly, many of the important characters weren't really introduced properly in the game anyway, they just turned up without explanation. They also barely interacted with your player character (who I think had no lines?) until Season Two, when they suddenly started calling you "boss". So it didn't really help me get to know or care about those characters.

Thanks for recommending my GW2 movie! Glad you enjoyed it! ?

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@DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:I'm very much in the "Season One was terrible but they should still bring it back" camp. The OP might be interested in the fanmade movie version on YouTube:
Personally I found watching the movie preferable to reading about it on the Wiki. (I played about half of Season One, I think, but since it was bad I moved onto other games - so I watched the movie to fill in the gap when I eventually came back to GW2.)

If I recall correctly, many of the important characters weren't really introduced properly in the game anyway, they just turned up without explanation. They also barely interacted with your player character (who I think had no lines?) until Season Two, when they suddenly started calling you "boss". So it didn't really help me get to know or care about those characters.

Thanks for recommending my GW2 movie! Glad you enjoyed it! ?

When I leveled my first character to 80, prior to speaking to the NPC for the in game "intro" to LWS1, I watched that video. It is quite long, over 3 hours, but if the story line, the lore is important to you, then I feel that it's worth it. It made subsequent game play more meaningful to me. Kudos to everyone involved in its production.

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Anet puts most of their resources and attention to story to the point where one would say this is a story based mmo yet, tey cba to properly fill in the massive gap they left and they are seemingly fine with that.

It doesnt matter if its well written or not it sets up basically the whole of the existing story and the alcl of it is a massive gap.

Such a shame and its honestly the main reason i tell ppl to try other mmos if they want a narrative experience.

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They need to bring it back in in some form even if it is just a condensed version that hits the highlights. It's rather mindblowing that they haven't done this already.

But the truth is this is just one of many areas where getting content into the game seems to be a much bigger challenge than it should be as the game has not been evolved nearly as much as you'd expect it to after 8 years.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:Any newcomer would get nothing out of those bits of ls1 that was hacked out. I werent around for ls1, and these visions felt pointless. Theres no need for newcomers to play these at all.

They might add further season 1 instances with each vision, until we have a proper season 1, which could have mail inbetween to mesh up the story.

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It bugs me too, and I played season 1.

I don't like holes in my games, movies and stories.. even though I agree with those who say season 1 wasn't that great It still bothers me greatly that it's missing from the game.I've been nagging about it for years though.. I expect LW1 won't become playable again until right at the end of this games lifespan.. and even then that's probably not going to happen either.

I'm not going to give up on it though.. Till the day this game goes offline I will continue supporting a LWS1 rework.In my eyes it's by far the most high priority thing Anet needs to focus on.. and i'll gladly accept a new content drought to see it happen.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:Any newcomer would get nothing out of those bits of ls1 that was hacked out. I werent around for ls1, and these visions felt pointless. Theres no need for newcomers to play these at all.

Those visions are literally the first time you meet Braham, Rox, Frostbite and Canach. It may not mean much to you, but to many people it at least explains why they suddenly show up in LS2; many newbies assume they are from Fractals instead.

And they're heavily incomplete. Those were just four missions out of many, and some of it was open-world.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Any newcomer would get nothing out of those bits of ls1 that was hacked out. I werent around for ls1, and these visions felt pointless. Theres no need for newcomers to play these at all.

Those visions are literally the first time you meet Braham, Rox, Frostbite and Canach. It may not mean much to you, but to many people it at least explains why they suddenly show up in LS2; many newbies assume they are from Fractals instead.

And they're heavily incomplete. Those were just four missions out of many, and some of it was open-world.

They mean absolutely nothing because theres no context with it. What is going on in those missions? Thats why I find them pointless, they should have restored all of ls1, instead of serving bits and pieces. And we dont know if we get more at all.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Any newcomer would get nothing out of those bits of ls1 that was hacked out. I werent around for ls1, and these visions felt pointless. Theres no need for newcomers to play these at all.

Those visions are literally the first time you meet Braham, Rox, Frostbite and Canach. It may not mean much to you, but to many people it at least explains why they suddenly show up in LS2; many newbies assume they are from Fractals instead.

And they're heavily incomplete. Those were just four missions out of many, and some of it was open-world.

It's not the first time, but it is the first time with combat. First time you meet Braham and Rox is in the Black Citadel talking with Rytlock, before they head to Cragstead / North Nolan Hatchery respectively. With Canach, we met him during The Lost Shores, but there were no instances for that. With Majrory and Kasmeer, that's the third plot they got involved, but was the first one where they were fighting in an instance.

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Any newcomer would get nothing out of those bits of ls1 that was hacked out. I werent around for ls1, and these visions felt pointless. Theres no need for newcomers to play these at all.

Those visions are literally the first time you meet Braham, Rox, Frostbite and Canach. It may not mean much to you, but to many people it at least explains why they suddenly show up in LS2; many newbies assume they are from Fractals instead.

And they're heavily incomplete. Those were just four missions out of many, and some of it was open-world.

They mean absolutely nothing because theres no context with it. What is going on in those missions? Thats why I find them pointless, they should have restored all of ls1, instead of serving bits and pieces. And we dont know if we get more at all.

While I agree with the eventual restoration of Season 1, I feel like it'd be better for ANet to do it in increments - instead of those four instances, imo, they should have brought back The Lost Shores + Flame and Frost, and do the rest in increments of covering four releases (which would be two plots, and ~5 instances + 10 events each, the latter should be as easy as a flip of a variable) with restoring the old achievements from historical.

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