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killshot should at least go through walls, anet start make some sense.

Lighter.5631

By Lighter.5631
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Lighter.5631

Lighter.5631

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Lighter.5631 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

See Sobx's comment. Saying a few skills on a weapon, or even other weapons from another unrelated thread, need buffing is not the same as saying the class is bad. It's you and Felix arguing in bad faith with flawed logic here.

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Axl.8924

Axl.8924

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

See Sobx's comment. Saying a few skills on a weapon, or even other weapons from another unrelated thread, need buffing is not the same as saying the class is bad. It's you and Felix arguing in bad faith with flawed logic here.

So class isn't bad and it just a few weapon sets that's bad?

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Axl.8924 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

See Sobx's comment. Saying a few skills on a weapon, or even other weapons from another unrelated thread, need buffing is not the same as saying the class is bad. It's you and Felix arguing in bad faith with flawed logic here.

So class isn't bad and it just a few weapon sets that's bad?

I wouldn't even say the whole weapon sets or even whole traitlines. Some skills and traits just haven't aged well, and this isn't just a warrior issue the same can be said for every class. Discussing them constructively is how we can get Anet moving on tinkering with outdated portions of the classes. See the Brave Stride rework. That change was something actively discussed in the warrior forum. Anet even used some of the language verbatim from that post in the patch notes!

As far as the current meta, well they shook it up, and they'll shake it up again before the end of the year, it's what the balance team does. I swear half of their balance decisions are for shits and giggles.

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Axl.8924

Axl.8924

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

See Sobx's comment. Saying a few skills on a weapon, or even other weapons from another unrelated thread, need buffing is not the same as saying the class is bad. It's you and Felix arguing in bad faith with flawed logic here.

So class isn't bad and it just a few weapon sets that's bad?

I wouldn't even say the whole weapon sets or even whole traitlines. Some skills and traits just haven't aged well, and this isn't just a warrior issue the same can be said for every class. Discussing them constructively is how we can get Anet moving on tinkering with outdated portions of the classes. See the Brave Stride rework. That change was something actively discussed in the warrior forum. Anet even used some of the language verbatim from that post in the patch notes!

As far as the current meta, well they shook it up, and they'll shake it up again before the end of the year, it's what the balance team does. I swear half of their balance decisions are for kitten and giggles.

Actually the brave stride change sounds kinda nice with a decent ICD i would def take that if i was a war in PVP.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

Posted
Posted

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

See Sobx's comment. Saying a few skills on a weapon, or even other weapons from another unrelated thread, need buffing is not the same as saying the class is bad. It's you and Felix arguing in bad faith with flawed logic here.

So class isn't bad and it just a few weapon sets that's bad?

I wouldn't even say the whole weapon sets or even whole traitlines. Some skills and traits just haven't aged well, and this isn't just a warrior issue the same can be said for every class. Discussing them constructively is how we can get Anet moving on tinkering with outdated portions of the classes. See the Brave Stride rework. That change was something actively discussed in the warrior forum. Anet even used some of the language verbatim from that post in the patch notes!

As far as the current meta, well they shook it up, and they'll shake it up again before the end of the year, it's what the balance team does. I swear half of their balance decisions are for kitten and giggles.

Actually the brave stride change sounds kinda nice with a decent ICD i would def take that if i was a war in PVP.

It's a 10s ICD in WvW and PvP.

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Axl.8924

Axl.8924

Posted
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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

See Sobx's comment. Saying a few skills on a weapon, or even other weapons from another unrelated thread, need buffing is not the same as saying the class is bad. It's you and Felix arguing in bad faith with flawed logic here.

So class isn't bad and it just a few weapon sets that's bad?

I wouldn't even say the whole weapon sets or even whole traitlines. Some skills and traits just haven't aged well, and this isn't just a warrior issue the same can be said for every class. Discussing them constructively is how we can get Anet moving on tinkering with outdated portions of the classes. See the Brave Stride rework. That change was something actively discussed in the warrior forum. Anet even used some of the language verbatim from that post in the patch notes!

As far as the current meta, well they shook it up, and they'll shake it up again before the end of the year, it's what the balance team does. I swear half of their balance decisions are for kitten and giggles.

Actually the brave stride change sounds kinda nice with a decent ICD i would def take that if i was a war in PVP.

It's a 10s ICD in WvW and PvP.

I dunno its 2 sec stab for movement tech could be used to prevent being cced while attacking or escape i guess.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

Posted
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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:I full zerk warrior'd in wvw recently. Got in a 2v2, had a clean killshot setup mid fight from stealth so i pop rage signet, im at 25 stacks, I shoot the holosmith.... 8k.

Full crit volley on both targets piercing? 4k.

Rifle is done.It never started, but its done.

I would also prefer shotgun style but anet's excuse would be "that has already been dedicated to engi."

February patch was the stupidest laziest thing that they overhyped. Apparently people were dying to shield bash and bulls charge so they have to do 23 dmg, but aoe condi pollution has been fine this whole time. In fact lets add more of that and give scourge back more pollution HEUGH HEUGH HEUGH.

This game has fallen off so hard.

Holo though so it had protection up most likely. And probably running tank stats. That was half its health though probably. That volley though should have done more damage...

you don't really need to explain anything, the point is that rifle hit like noodle and you explaining why it's hitting that low it's like saying it's fine which is not. we all know it's hitting low and why it's hitting low. and the complain and the point of this thread is rifle hitting low.

Rifle doesn't always hit like a noodle though, so taking the bunker case and extrapolating it to all cases is disengenuous.

so you are saying that rifle is completely fine and doesnt need buffs at all, why do you think warrior suck again?

Did I say that? No, I do not think I did, stop extrapolating from the extremes mate. Rifle AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4 all need their coefficients reverted to before the balance patch. Volley and KS are okay power wise in this meta, the problem is that everyone now is running tank stats to capitalize on the less-power meta, so you encounter more bunker stats than before. Against a medium defense target, you'll still knock away half their HP or more in this meta its just a matter of if you set up the shot well enough.

did you even read what you said? you literally said rifle doesnt always do noodle damage and it's doing noodle damage because enemy is running tanky stats (which is exactly the goal of tanky stats and that implies everything is fine)

you also say that you can still knock a tons of HP off people( with medium to low defense target) with rifle, which also solidify the notion how rifle is fine and warrior damage is fine in general.why you think warrior suck again? please don't ever say warrior suck again as you right now just said it's fine.

You really like putting words into people's mouths don't you? I don't think I've ever said that warrior sucks either in this thread or any other, you may be confusing me with other posters, there are after all only so many icons to go around.

if asking for buffs doesn't imply the class being bad, then you are just asking to be overbuffed

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

"i'm gonna ask for more damage, more condition, but i also think the class is fine"your comments are just logically flawed.

See Sobx's comment. Saying a few skills on a weapon, or even other weapons from another unrelated thread, need buffing is not the same as saying the class is bad. It's you and Felix arguing in bad faith with flawed logic here.

So class isn't bad and it just a few weapon sets that's bad?

I wouldn't even say the whole weapon sets or even whole traitlines. Some skills and traits just haven't aged well, and this isn't just a warrior issue the same can be said for every class. Discussing them constructively is how we can get Anet moving on tinkering with outdated portions of the classes. See the Brave Stride rework. That change was something actively discussed in the warrior forum. Anet even used some of the language verbatim from that post in the patch notes!

As far as the current meta, well they shook it up, and they'll shake it up again before the end of the year, it's what the balance team does. I swear half of their balance decisions are for kitten and giggles.

Actually the brave stride change sounds kinda nice with a decent ICD i would def take that if i was a war in PVP.

It's a 10s ICD in WvW and PvP.

I dunno its 2 sec stab for movement tech could be used to prevent being cced while attacking or escape i guess.

That was the reason given for the suggested change here in the warrior forum. Warrior is defacto double melee, and the extra stab on movement was suggested to help against being kited.

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Jugglemonkey.8741

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I should read these forums more, they're pretty entertaining. popcornOn topic, the numbers being thrown around here seem to be on par with a not-complete-glass deadeye (think marauder gear with firework runes), which should be enough to chunk someone or finish them off if they are already at 50%. Given the risks and build investment needed is obviously different for the two classes, the questions you all ought to be asking are these;1) What would the fully specced/boosted killshot that hit a firebrand for 8k hit a glass ele for? Is that level of damage acceptable? (I am genuinely asking here, no sarcasm or hidden agenda)2) If the damage is fine on the top end vs glass, what can you do to make the build need less investment for the damage at the low end (read, have more utility/be more flexible while still maintaining usable damage) without pushing the damage ceiling to crazy levels?3) If the current top end damage vs glass is not fine and you buff it, given we are currently in a bunker meta, would the damage then be OK when the meta changes to something glassier or would it then be too much?If you don't frame the discussion in this sort of way, from my experience of similar topics on the thief forums odds are it will go round in circles.Have a good day! o/

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I should read these forums more, they're pretty entertaining. popcornThere are people who certainly generate content lol.On topic, the numbers being thrown around here seem to be on par with a not-complete-glass deadeye (think marauder gear with firework runes), which should be enough to chunk someone or finish them off if they are already at 50%. Given the risks and build investment needed is obviously different for the two classes, the questions you all ought to be asking are these;1) What would the fully specced/boosted killshot that hit a firebrand for 8k hit a glass ele for? Is that level of damage acceptable? (I am genuinely asking here, no sarcasm or hidden agenda)8k on a firebrand is a lot. A glass ele would have a bad day from that, but they have several means to recover from it depending on the build.2) If the damage is fine on the top end vs glass, what can you do to make the build need less investment for the damage at the low end (read, have more utility/be more flexible while still maintaining usable damage) without pushing the damage ceiling to crazy levels?Good question.3) If the current top end damage vs glass is not fine and you buff it, given we are currently in a bunker meta, would the damage then be OK when the meta changes to something glassier or would it then be too much?No, but if the meta shifts I'd expect 'balance' changes to what was buffed.If you don't frame the discussion in this sort of way, from my experience of similar topics on the thief forums odds are it will go round in circles.Have a good day! o/You do the same.

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Axl.8924

Axl.8924

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I should read these forums more, they're pretty entertaining. popcornOn topic, the numbers being thrown around here seem to be on par with a not-complete-glass deadeye (think marauder gear with firework runes), which should be enough to chunk someone or finish them off if they are already at 50%. Given the risks and build investment needed is obviously different for the two classes, the questions you all ought to be asking are these;1) What would the fully specced/boosted killshot that hit a firebrand for 8k hit a glass ele for? Is that level of damage acceptable? (I am genuinely asking here, no sarcasm or hidden agenda)2) If the damage is fine on the top end vs glass, what can you do to make the build need less investment for the damage at the low end (read, have more utility/be more flexible while still maintaining usable damage) without pushing the damage ceiling to crazy levels?3) If the current top end damage vs glass is not fine and you buff it, given we are currently in a bunker meta, would the damage then be OK when the meta changes to something glassier or would it then be too much?If you don't frame the discussion in this sort of way, from my experience of similar topics on the thief forums odds are it will go round in circles.Have a good day! o/

Personally got to say this reason the change in damage was even done across the board, is because classes like nec couldn't survive the onslaught from classes with too much damage and toughness was their only defense tool. This also affected ele as well.

I get the feeling ANET doesn't know what to do with warriors, because people hate being CC spammed but it looks like it harms the wares not having dmg on cc abilities.

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TeqkOneStylez.8047

TeqkOneStylez.8047

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Some of you above are missing the point. It was 8k on the holosmith, not firebrand. And I looked at the clip and he didnt have protection, AND it was literally with all the stars aligning in my favor with a stealth setup and 25 stack of might on a skill that normally wont be landing due to dodge, reflect , blind , random aegis,block,interrupt and whatever else.

FebruaryPatchIsNotBetter.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:Some of you above are missing the point. It was 8k on the holosmith, not firebrand. And I looked at the clip and he didnt have protection, AND it was literally with all the stars aligning in my favor with a stealth setup and 25 stack of might on a skill that normally wont be landing due to dodge, reflect , blind , random aegis,block,interrupt and whatever else.

FebruaryPatchIsNotBetter.

Still the possiblity that they stacked toughness and had dmg reduction food. Against a high toughness target 8k is about what you should expect, and armor class is kind of irrelevant once you get enough toughness.

I agree regardless though about February Patch.

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