Some thoughts about Jormag rising trailer

[hugo.4705]

I'm a little disturbed by the scene starting at 0:30: With the whatever machine, converter or portal.I always viewed charr as capable of using steam, heat or mechanics but I never considered being able to use electricity. I mean, if they were, they would basically have laser guns, phaser rifles or well, electric torches. The recent episode of drizzlewood included things like propaganda speakers, or electro-magnetic pulse charges, even remote bombs. So conceding that charr now about electricity, making emitter or wireless antennas. Even the recent vision of the past included a radio in the tank.

But I dunno why, it feels off. In grothmar, the metal legion had amps, but it was explained by the asura technician. Also the spy devices were surely made my separatists or renegades and so possible stolen technologies. But for charrs, core tyria charr, I always considered they were just able to use steam, gears and wires to make engines, pumps or metal siege engines but nothing more. The airship as example, it moves and float only thanks to the asura repulsors and turbine at the back of the airship.

The trailer, now assume that, charr know how to manipulate draconic essences, which is an aberration, the device is high tech and highly remind me the clockheart containment cell in aetherpath or the ones used by aetherblade in general. I highly doubt there is any asura there (Well possible Inquest to study Jormag (think of test bed zeleph for zhaithan, base in dragon stand or sandswept)), also I highly doubt there were an aetherblade base here. It even have some holographic part in it.... If you pay attention, it even have some holo-ball generators around.

Sure, they introduced in the third episode, a secret facility developing new weapons, "never saw before" but I highly doubt that Jormag has any knowledge into technologies, and even how to extract its own essence! Plus, I don't imagine sons of svanir being created in a "lab" passing through a gate! Can't those charr convert themselves by performing a group ritual? They obviously met sons of svanir, why not asking them? Jormag have in its army in majority, Norn and Charr, with some kodans. Through kodans have respectable knowledge I doubt they have very strong abilities into telling how again, to play with essences. The process of worshipping is too slow? I can get it if jormag capture a random asura knowing about all of that, but i really feel this is a very stretched hypothesis, and that having an essence infuser is kinda a joke. it's either, you modernize everything, or nothing. I never saw again, even recently, charr equipped with a tazer chestplate, throwing sparks arks or whatever (haha, btw that description would be aetherblade). Well apart EMG and remote charge, but I still wonder how they know about that. In core story, I get the remote things, because it is a coalition of races and so no doubt an human could have come showing how to make detonator. through, note that the tonn story or the one to destroy a risen tower included both an asura, in charge of the detonation.

But if anybody can affirm that charr, since core, know about electricity and how to use it, I'm very interested. Even streetlamps in Black citadel are flames.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@hugo.4705 said:But if anybody can affirm that charr, since core, know about electricity and how to use it, I'm very interested. Even streetlamps in Black citadel are flames.There is a charr in the Black Citadel that actively talks about trying to use electricity as a power source. This map being stuck in 1325 AE, they could have easily found a way to do so in the last decade. Add onto the fact that asura golems seem to use wires (per the heart right outside Rata Sum), and that charr and asura were working closely in the Pact, they no doubt have gotten electricity working for quite some time. I imagine that asura use magic instead of electricity, but use the same / similar conduction methods.

Also the spy devices were surely made my separatists or renegades and so possible stolen technologies.I fail to see why you think this, when they're very clearly utilized and planted by the Ash legion (only Blood charr PCs wouldn't be exposed to this dialogue). If the charr didn't create these, then they likely originate from the asura's own monitoring devices we can see in specific core hearts, as that's the closest thing we really get for these kinds of things.

But for charrs, core tyria charr, I always considered they were just able to use steam, gears and wires to make engines, pumps or metal siege engines but nothing more.Wires = electricity though?

The trailer, now assume that, charr know how to manipulate draconic essences, which is an aberration, the device is high tech and highly remind me the clockheart containment cell in aetherpath or the ones used by aetherblade in general. I highly doubt there is any asura there (Well possible Inquest to study Jormag (think of test bed zeleph for zhaithan, base in dragon stand or sandswept)), also I highly doubt there were an aetherblade base here. It even have some holographic part in it.... If you pay attention, it even have some holo-ball generators around.

The only similarity I see is the fact it's a circular platform with four slightly curved pillars at diagonals to the expected entry. This is a pretty basic design, and can be seen in various other things - even in GW1's Lion's Arch platforms. That said, the aesthetics of the structure are definitely charr-inspired, so I don't think there's any direct influence from Inquest or Aetherblades. It is entirely plausible that Bangar had spies steal notes from Crucible of Eternity via the Pact, or contracted Inquest advisors, though I doubt the latter.

The Frost Citadel, based on the aesthetics and name, definitely seems to be of charr origins. Whether the charr utilized others' research in building it is another matter though, but with so many Blood soldiers in the Pact, it would be far from impossible.

[hugo.4705]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@hugo.4705 said:Also the spy devices were surely made my separatists or renegades and so possible stolen technologies.I fail to see why you think this, when they're very clearly utilized and planted by the Ash legion (only Blood charr PCs wouldn't be exposed to this dialogue). If the charr didn't create these, then they likely originate from the asura's own monitoring devices we can see in specific core hearts, as that's the closest thing we really get for these kinds of things.

But for charrs, core tyria charr, I always considered they were just able to use steam, gears

and wires

to make engines, pumps or metal siege engines but nothing more.Wires = electricity though?

Firstly, thanks for your really detailed explanations.I wanted to return on those two points, because I think I haven't gave enough details to make it clear.

EDIT: For the devices, was blood legion so missed the dialogue. But yeah checked wiki too, they are ash devices.

Secondly, for wires, I meant if fact tubes and conduits using steam or combustion for making war machines or simple empty iron tubes for plating or linking things together. Even in the ash hidden base of grothmar, they use a djinn stone, or let's say ley line stone to power the facility.

[Ashantara.8731]

@hugo.4705 said:I'm a little disturbed by the scene starting at 0:30: With the whatever machine, converter or portal.I always viewed charr as capable of using steam, heat or mechanics but I never considered being able to use electricity.

I don't see electricity, I see ice.

I think the trailer also shows us a Bangar that is converted into Icebrood (Frost Legion). Perhaps that's the contraption they use for it?

[hugo.4705]

@"Ashantara.8731" My first post right of the picture.It's a faraday cage.

https://www.defendershield.com/faraday-cages-what-they-are-how-they-block-emf-radiation/

There is two big columns with electric rings at top plus two small ball generators at the bottom corners of the picture. The subject is struck by a lightning or a mutagenic essence charged laser.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"hugo.4705" said:For the devices, It was implied in grothmar in an achiev tied to an npc in the blood fortress. "Eye for ears" and the dialogue says malice doesn't know about the devices.There were a mission to locate them and to turn them off. Maybe ash, but I don't remember it was their, more a trial to acces their hidden base. I'm blood legion, may have not access to a specific dialogue. Mission were given by a blood legion.Like I said, if you're Blood, then you're not told they're from Ash. Ferox Keenaxe only talks to Blood Legion charr. If you're not Blood charr, then you have to talk to Iovis Nearspecter who state he was responsible for placing those devices in order to monitor for Renegade movement.

Secondly, for wires, I meant if fact tubes and conduits using steam or combustion for making war machines or simple empty iron tubes for plating or linking things together. Even in the ash hidden base of grothmar, they use a djinn stone, or let's say ley line stone to power the facility.The djinn crystal isn't there to power the facility, it's - as Marjory points out - a cautionary measure against what was formerly nearby Kralkatorrik corruption - and they're keeping it in case of Aurene's branding becoming hostile.

[hugo.4705]

Yeah just figured out, I forgot to re-edit my former answer (now edited), the devices are from ash. Thnaks for the info from Marjory, I think the recon cove is the only place where I haven't listened to all dialogues. But so it works with electricity. There is even a laser training parkour.

[Psientist.6437]

That machine opens some interesting plot directions. Bangar could be siphoning draconic energy without Jormag's consent. Banagar didn't walk as though he was a subordinate.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"Psientist.6437" said:That machine opens some interesting plot directions. Bangar could be siphoning draconic energy without Jormag's consent. Banagar didn't walk as though he was a subordinate.That, or Jormag has seen the usefulness of minions that can think on their own after the great success of Pact Commander and Aurene, and the loss of the previous three dragons.

This is probably similar to Aurene's "Branding" of Caithe, where Aruene asked, Caithe allowed it to happen, and it allowed her to "corrupt" another dragon minion, despite that typically not being possible directly. Caithe still keeps her free will and all that, but is still connected to Aurene. Jormag has always done something similar, using promises of power to "corrupt" living beings into accepting it willingly, without just outright Icebrooding them directly.

Given that Jormag has been manipulating Bangar from the beginning, its safe to assume Jormag isn't having its power taken unwillingly, or at least, it isn't truly unwilling, even if Bangar thinks it is.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I think there's multiple types of electricity in Tyria, actually. In the real world, its the same--although we think of "electricity" as just just applied electrical power, it comes from many, many different sources including light and heat

All you need is an appropriate converter, to harness the energy and turn it into electrical power.

Its the same in Tyria, I think. The Asura seem to generate electricity via magic, which gives their technology its magitech feel. The Charr definitely do have electrity, we even see electrical weapons (the Engineer and Scrapper are a Charr class) and light fixtures. The Human Gods even used electricity to power the light globes throughout Dwayna's Temple and the City of Arah.

We also see many, many references to magnets, and electromagnetism.

You may think, "none of that is electricity". But electricity is a fundamental concept of physics, and exists naturally in nature and in Tyria, even as elementals. As I've said earlier, that can come from many different sources in our world, and in Tyria as well.

Btw, the most basic form of electrical power conversion is generators built using steam turbines.

[hugo.4705]

Recently, I saw Kossage who gave a thought about that on reddit, he noticed that:1-Unknown person damaged brand stompers to attract branded in grothmar. And Vetia spotted an asura giving aid.2-Researcher Dwidd in grothmar spoke about harnessing aurene power and about using it.3-The machine reminded him the subversion machines shooting draconic essence in crucible of eternity. Also, the machine has ice on it, like she were here since an expedition, before bangar arrived.

Those 3 things are inderectly linked to draconic energies. Maybe hinted by writers since the start of the saga. I just find it suspicious too, but curious about the explanation that would be given in game.

Here is a very wild explanation for how the machine works imho:-Jormag corruptive essences are firstly dispensed from above, then they turn on the two big static electricity donut generator.-The electric arcs naturally aim to the center of the structure which is essentially metal and charge itself with the essences.-The Subject is struck by the very high voltage bolt and instantly die.-But due to the essence, it is imediately turned into icebrood.

That's why Bangar isn't converted at the end of the cinematic, he doesn't want to be killed by the machine. And use soldiers to check if it works. I'm in no way saying there is alive inquest, but maybe they had a little facility, rapidly overrun and got decimated. The charr fortress could have been built later, over that.

I'm very surprised that Gorrik doesn't have a bounty over its head. In personal story, for messing with them we had a whole assassination team after us and engineer ready to blow up the whole cliff over the rata sum home instance. Somebody will recover Gorik one day or another. To cite a writer:

"Scott McGough: The Inquest doesn't like its members to leave, and they have taken extreme steps to punish or reclaim those who try. They're especially tough on those who try to get out if those people have valuable or incriminating information the Inquest wants to keep to themselves. "

[Obliviscaris.6937]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Psientist.6437" said:That machine opens some interesting plot directions. Bangar could be siphoning draconic energy without Jormag's consent. Banagar didn't walk as though he was a subordinate.That, or Jormag has seen the usefulness of minions that can think on their own after the great success of Pact Commander and Aurene, and the loss of the previous three dragons.

This is probably similar to Aurene's "Branding" of Caithe, where Aruene asked, Caithe allowed it to happen, and it allowed her to "corrupt" another dragon minion, despite that typically not being possible directly. Caithe still keeps her free will and all that, but is still connected to Aurene. Jormag has always done something similar, using promises of power to "corrupt" living beings into accepting it willingly, without just outright Icebrooding them directly.

Given that Jormag has been manipulating Bangar from the beginning, its safe to assume Jormag isn't having its power taken unwillingly, or at least, it isn't truly unwilling, even if Bangar thinks it is.

This is precisely what (aside from Jormag's voice) has made me really enjoy Jormag as not only as an elder dragon, but a character. She's completely flipped any preconceived ideas I had about dragons on it's head. It's further torn to shreds by Aesgier's diary 'A Burden'. The characterization of Jormag is nothing beyond stellar. Interactions with previous dragons have felt pretty empty. It's such a refreshing change.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Obliviscaris.6937 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Psientist.6437" said:That machine opens some interesting plot directions. Bangar could be siphoning draconic energy without Jormag's consent. Banagar didn't walk as though he was a subordinate.That, or Jormag has seen the usefulness of minions that can think on their own after the great success of Pact Commander and Aurene, and the loss of the previous three dragons.

This is probably similar to Aurene's "Branding" of Caithe, where Aruene asked, Caithe allowed it to happen, and it allowed her to "corrupt" another dragon minion, despite that typically not being possible directly. Caithe still keeps her free will and all that, but is still connected to Aurene. Jormag has always done something similar, using promises of power to "corrupt" living beings into accepting it willingly, without just outright Icebrooding them directly.

Given that Jormag has been manipulating Bangar from the beginning, its safe to assume Jormag isn't having its power taken unwillingly, or at least, it isn't truly unwilling, even if Bangar thinks it is.

This is precisely what (aside from Jormag's voice) has made me really enjoy Jormag as not only as an elder dragon, but a character. She's

completely

flipped any preconceived ideas I had about dragons on it's head. It's further torn to shreds by Aesgier's diary 'A Burden'. The characterization of Jormag is nothing beyond stellar. Interactions with previous dragons have felt pretty empty. It's such a refreshing change.

This may have to do with the fact that previous Elder Dragons have all had some insane advantage, which likely made them unhinged.

Zhaitan literally made its home base in the Ruined City of Arah, not only one of the most significant ley line hubs in the world, but also former home to the Human Gods. It also started out with an army of thousands, if not millions, due to the sinking of Orr, including getting powerful leuitenants for free. Despite this, Zhaitan was still so hungry that it saught out magical artifacts to gain even more power, and tried to conquer the nearby lands despite not even needing to, which ultimately lead to its downfall as it overestimated itself, and underestimated the Pact.

Zhaitan was essentially a kid born with a silver spoon in its mouth; it was spoiled.

Mordremoth had alot of the same things going on. It was based upon a major ley line hub and had an incredible proximity to Rata Sum and The Grove, which it was migrating towards from SCAR Lane, through an area that hasn't yet been added to the game. Its ability to spread underground gave it an unfair advantage over all the other Elder Dragons, since it had a virtually unlimited reach, which made it overextend. It also had another free army in the form of Sylvari, who weren't supposed to be awakened until it was, but had 25 years of development to "ripen them up for the taking". And this isn't taking into account variables like inheriting Zhaitan's power, which seemed to bring along some of the same personality traits e.g, seeking out magical artifacts, despite already having a near-infinite source of power. Again, this lead to overconfidence, especially in its own mental abilities and role in Tyria.

Like Zhaitan, Modremoth was spoiled beyond belief. The one fork in its entire plan was that the same advantage it had--Sylvari having been existing prior to its uprising, lead to some of them being resistant against its call, leading to its downfall.

Kralkatorrik is the most extreme example, combining all the flaws of Zhaitan, Modremoth, and Balthazar. I'd need an entire page to describe what went wrong with it, but needless to say, its a wonder we had an spoken audience at all, what was left of it by the end. Kralkatorrik essentially became corruption itself. Not only were its minions corrupted, but Kralk itself was corrupted to the very core.

Compared to all of this, Jormag is alot more "pure". It seems to have none of these advantages that we know of. Its had to fight the hard fight just to stay in the Elder Dragon game, hence the serious limitations like the reach on its domain, minions and influence. On top of this, having its magic sapped by Balthazar means its the most vulnerable an Elder Dragon has ever been; a team like Destiny's Edge or Dragon's Watch could likely kill it at this stage. It knows that if it makes a mistake, and doesn't play all its cards right, its game over, goodnight.

"But we wouldn't do that, because the world would be destroyed". Dragons aren't all-knowning, they only know what their minions know, and Jormag has no way of knowing that we don't have some kind of backup plan.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"hugo.4705" said:Here is a very wild explanation for how the machine works imho:-Jormag corruptive essences are firstly dispensed from above, then they turn on the two big static electricity donut generator.-The electric arcs naturally aim to the center of the structure which is essentially metal and charge itself with the essences.-The Subject is struck by the very high voltage bolt and instantly die.-But due to the essence, it is imediately turned into icebrood.

I disagree on the death part, and I don't think there's actual electricity running through the charr exposed to Jormag's magic.

On death: It's been established that Jormag is more careful and experimental with the powers from the other Elder Dragons compared to Primordus and Kralkatorrik. This is why we're not seeing dozens of plant/death-touched icebrood, but instead only saw the one Unstable Abomination and Drakkar being influenced by Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magics. Per retcon in Season 3, Elder Dragons other than Zhaitan can only corrupt corpses / make use of corpses by taking Zhaitan's death magic, as silly as it sounds (this being in counter to the quaggan personal story in recruiting Baroosh, where we see several "Sickly Quaggan"s die, then become Corrupted Quaggans after clear the room of Sons of Svanir and interact with the sole living Sickly Quaggan who turns while living). Regardless of the retcon (or any retcon to the retcon like Primordus' case), Jormag being very cautious and experimental would indicate that Jormag wouldn't suddenly just go for abusing the death magic it got from Zhaitan in large enough quantities to create the Frost Legion.

On electricity: While it may appear as though there is an electrical current, I do not think there is - at least, not in the sense that we're familiar in talking about. It should be established that high concentrations of magic often appear to have static discharges - if you're in doubt, simply go to Drakkar Spurs in Frostgorge Sound and you will notice such electrical discharges around the corrupted ice, the highest concentration of Jormag's corruption in the core maps. Furthermore, while we do see two orbs generating what seems like electricity, it doesn't fluctuate at all as the device activates, indicating that they're not utilized in the conversion process. The beam does have a lightning-like arcing to it, but this is likely aesthetic choice to not have it a straight up pillar of magic. Having some minor arcing in any plasma-like discharges is fairly common aesthetics - perfect straightness is a rare thing, after all.

For the reason why Bangar hasn't turned Icebrood (yet) I'm betting that it's simply because Bangar's not an idiot. He'd know corruption risks losing one's free will, and he's out to subjugate an Elder Dragon, not be subjugated by. Even if he's influenced by Jormag's whispers, if he's wise enough to realize Braham's bow won't be enough to make Jormag kneel, he isn't going to risk Jormag suddenly "playing nice" - if he is so willing to use the bow as a propaganda tool, why not his open proclamations of becoming Jormag's champion by slaying Drakkar (which, itself, is a bit of a lie and he knows it).

Simply put, Bangar's probably still got enough of his sense of self to realize Jormag has no reason to perfectly play nice. Even if he does have illusions of grandeur. Heck, it wouldn't be far fetched to believe that the machine's purpose is to steal Jormag's magic, and we'll end up finding Jormag somehow chained down or otherwise restrained from while it slept (also wouldn't be far fetched to believe Jormag's letting itself be chained down in such a scenario, rather than actually being imprisoned).

[hugo.4705]

Or Jormag is manipulating them, after promising strength and hopes to save its peoples; Jormag keeps corrupting ice to fuel the machine. (Corrupted Ice turned into dust, energized or whatever) after passing through the machines bangar troops are satisfied but Jormag too , having more troops. I suspect that Bangar saw how Varinia changed, and definitely does not want to be changed.The steel warband weren't corrupted too. Bangar indeed doesn't trust Jormag, and he refused icebrooding his close loved ones.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Obliviscaris.6937 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Psientist.6437" said:That machine opens some interesting plot directions. Bangar could be siphoning draconic energy without Jormag's consent. Banagar didn't walk as though he was a subordinate.That, or Jormag has seen the usefulness of minions that can think on their own after the great success of Pact Commander and Aurene, and the loss of the previous three dragons.

This is probably similar to Aurene's "Branding" of Caithe, where Aruene asked, Caithe allowed it to happen, and it allowed her to "corrupt" another dragon minion, despite that typically not being possible directly. Caithe still keeps her free will and all that, but is still connected to Aurene. Jormag has always done something similar, using promises of power to "corrupt" living beings into accepting it willingly, without just outright Icebrooding them directly.

Given that Jormag has been manipulating Bangar from the beginning, its safe to assume Jormag isn't having its power taken unwillingly, or at least, it isn't truly unwilling, even if Bangar thinks it is.

This is precisely what (aside from Jormag's voice) has made me really enjoy Jormag as not only as an elder dragon, but a character. She's

completely

flipped any preconceived ideas I had about dragons on it's head. It's further torn to shreds by Aesgier's diary 'A Burden'. The characterization of Jormag is nothing beyond stellar. Interactions with previous dragons have felt pretty empty. It's such a refreshing change.

This may have to do with the fact that previous Elder Dragons have all had some insane advantage, which likely made them unhinged.

Zhaitan literally made its home base in the Ruined City of Arah, not only one of the most significant ley line hubs in the world, but also former home to the Human Gods. It also started out with an army of thousands, if not millions, due to the sinking of Orr, including getting powerful leuitenants for free. Despite this, Zhaitan was still so hungry that it saught out magical artifacts to gain even more power, and tried to conquer the nearby lands despite not even needing to, which ultimately lead to its downfall as it overestimated itself, and underestimated the Pact.

Zhaitan was essentially a kid born with a silver spoon in its mouth; it was spoiled.

Mordremoth had alot of the same things going on. It was based upon a major ley line hub and had an incredible proximity to Rata Sum and The Grove, which it was migrating towards from SCAR Lane, through an area that hasn't yet been added to the game. Its ability to spread underground gave it an unfair advantage over all the other Elder Dragons, since it had a virtually unlimited reach, which made it overextend. It also had another free army in the form of Sylvari, who weren't supposed to be awakened until it was, but had 25 years of development to "ripen them up for the taking". And this isn't taking into account variables like inheriting Zhaitan's power, which seemed to bring along some of the same personality traits e.g, seeking out magical artifacts, despite already having a near-infinite source of power. Again, this lead to overconfidence, especially in its own mental abilities and role in Tyria.

Like Zhaitan, Modremoth was spoiled beyond belief. The one fork in its entire plan was that the same advantage it had--Sylvari having been existing prior to its uprising, lead to some of them being resistant against its call, leading to its downfall.

Kralkatorrik is the most extreme example, combining all the flaws of Zhaitan, Modremoth, and Balthazar. I'd need an entire page to describe what went wrong with it, but needless to say, its a wonder we had an spoken audience at all, what was left of it by the end. Kralkatorrik essentially became corruption itself. Not only were its minions corrupted, but Kralk itself was corrupted to the very core.

Compared to all of this, Jormag is alot more "pure". It seems to have none of these advantages that we know of. Its had to fight the hard fight just to stay in the Elder Dragon game, hence the serious limitations like the reach on its domain, minions and influence. On top of this, having its magic sapped by Balthazar means its the most vulnerable an Elder Dragon has ever been; a team like Destiny's Edge or Dragon's Watch could likely kill it at this stage. It knows that if it makes a mistake, and doesn't play all its cards right, its game over, goodnight.

"But we wouldn't do that, because the world would be destroyed". Dragons aren't all-knowning, they only know what their minions know, and Jormag has no way of knowing that we don't have some kind of backup plan.

I don't think their situation made them 'unhinged'. I don't think sanity in our definition applies 1:1 to Elder Dragons as we know it. I just think the very nature of Jormag is different at her core (I'm going to use this pronoun for all intents and purposes), and because of that the writers have a chance to have her become more fleshed out as an actual character. Mordremoth received this treatment EVER so slightly in the final moments of the game. I mean I believe every dragon does HAVE a personality at it's core, but they've had no reason to show it. Because as personalities they function differently. They get shit done differently. And because of the way she gets things done, her characterizing herself works to her advantage, because it gets inside heads without them really truly realizing it (whereas Mordremoth was a bull in a fragile mental China shop).

She's quite literally conscripting armies at this point. That's the scariest part; she's well and truly proved that she doesn't need to physically or even mentally corrupt, she's just that damn good at her job. She quite literally did this to Aesgir, which resulted in the Norn building their culture around a big fat tooth shaped lie. That's insidious. That's damn impressive. I mean she'd make a killer attorney. Or she'd run a really tight drug cartel.

I just believe that Jormag works on a far more cerebral level and her ways of doing things are much more in line with what the most cunning of us would do in a comparative sense. In this way I'm very glad they've moved away from this pure 'force of nature' direction (likely because it just didn't have the 'wow' factor on players, and it reeeeeally didn't. But to call her purer? I don't know about purer, but she's more efficient, calculating, and she plays the long game. That's something to really be scared of.

[hugo.4705]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:On electricity: While it may appear as though there is an electrical current, I do not think there is - at least, not in the sense that we're familiar in talking about. It should be established that high concentrations of magic often appear to have static discharges - if you're in doubt, simply go to Drakkar Spurs in Frostgorge Sound and you will notice such electrical discharges around the corrupted ice, the highest concentration of Jormag's corruption in the core maps. Furthermore, while we do see two orbs generating what seems like electricity, it doesn't fluctuate at all as the device activates, indicating that they're not utilized in the conversion process. The beam does have a lightning-like arcing to it, but this is likely aesthetic choice to not have it a straight up pillar of magic. Having some minor arcing in any plasma-like discharges is fairly common aesthetics - perfect straightness is a rare thing, after all.

New trailer with more shots about the machineI definitely think those two pillars are Tesla Coils amplificating electrical current.The room, since we now have a more global view of it, feature several pipes conducting what seems to be corrupted liquid ice / water. I definitely think, one more time that Bangar and its troops collect corrupted ice from Jormag to fuel the machine. And that somehow electricity discharge is required in the transformation process.My guess is that it was an oversight during the original trailer to not having electric arcs coming out of the two coil towers. I think in fact that the two little shining orbs are power storage. That trailer really shows the electricity is passing from a metal part to another without caring of the ice. But I still have no explanation for the lightning bolt at the middle apart a faraday cage concentrating the arcs generated by the tesla coils. Charr made? Will just say it is ingenious. I'm only bothered by the fact that the center of the device has ice, like somebody came in and added it on it...

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"hugo.4705" said:New trailer with more shots about the machineI definitely think those two pillars are Tesla Coils amplificating electrical current.The room, since we now have a more global view of it, feature several pipes conducting what seems to be corrupted liquid ice / water. I definitely think, one more time that Bangar and its troops collect corrupted ice from Jormag to fuel the machine. And that somehow electricity discharge is required in the transformation process.

On the bold: check again. Those are the same kind of "pipes" we see throughout Pact encampments. These are channeling energy which is meant to help repel dragon minions. Now that we can see more of the Frost Citadel, there's an interesting mixture of Pact and charr aesthetics, and most of the Pact stuff is in the form of those "pipes" channeling energy. The "shining orbs" you postulate as power storage is also Pact tech/aesthetics.

I imagine that the Dominion had renovated the purpose of the tech from channeling dragon minion repellent magical energy, to channeling Jormag's magic to make it seem to the Icebrood that the fortress is "one of them" (similar method is used in Orr for a skritt to move through risen mobs).

I wouldn't even be surprised if we find out that the Frost Citadel was built as a Pact encampment, forced to abandon for the fight against Mordremoth. We know that the Pact were establishing a small foothold against Jormag while fighting Zhaitan, and was preparing an assault on Kralkatorrik after Zhaitan's death until the Commander called for the World Summit; presmably, while preparing an assault on Kralkatorrik, they could have built a fort far north to monitor Jormag without usurping Vigil's outposts such as Jora's Keep.

My guess is that it was an oversight during the original trailer to not having electric arcs coming out of the two coil towers.Or that there are phases where it's powered up and powered down, and the two trailers show the different phases for those coil towers.

[Susy.7529]

Mmh...uh...ah...ooh...uh-uh.That's all.

[Psientist.6437]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Simply put, Bangar's probably still got enough of his sense of self to realize Jormag has no reason to perfectly play nice. Even if he does have illusions of grandeur. Heck, it wouldn't be far fetched to believe that the machine's purpose is to steal Jormag's magic, and we'll end up finding Jormag somehow chained down or otherwise restrained from while it slept (also wouldn't be far fetched to believe Jormag's letting itself be chained down in such a scenario, rather than actually being imprisoned).

Wouldn't be far fetched at all as it fits Bangar's personality and motivations. We also don't know if Jormag is being rational. Some of their whispers indicate they are acting from desperation or possibly from instinct. Jormag may not be the master mind some are making them out to be. If anyone needs to be corrupted into Jormag's 'champion', I hope it is Ryland and Bangar escapes and becomes the Commander's nemesis. The Commander needs a nemesis, someone who doesn't care about anything except causing the Commander trouble.

[Fenom.9457]

@Susy.7529 said:Mmh...uh...ah...ooh...uh-uh.That's all.

Most of the awesome knowledgeable people here: puts out huge awesome paragraphs of detailed theories based on existing lore

Me, watching the trailer: hey look, there’s ice in that shot there!

[Steven.7534]

https://imgur.com/4iq9xtF

I found this print in the mission "Distract, Destroy Distrust". It was when we destroy the supply bunker for Smodur. This might have been a hint of what the Domination was planning for Jormag.

[hugo.4705]

@"Steven.7534" said:https://imgur.com/4iq9xtF

I found this print in the mission "Distract, Destroy Distrust". It was when we destroy the supply bunker for Smodur. This might have been a hint of what the Domination was planning for Jormag.

I was wondering what that thing was and it is written in asuran script. It's sketches of the original models of asuran gates (concept art) and a leviathan. It is translated as...."This is what I believe brought forth the blessed vehicle" pointing at center of asura gate. The outer ring of the gate is legended "Octostash".Along several other asuran sentences and mechanic terms.

It also has very funny sentences like "With wheels lights as emblems of Nissan etched on rear"!

That asset is also present in recon cove, grothmar valley but lower quality, so took the one in drizzlewood to translate. Thanks the devs btw to have put that asset again with better quality.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@hugo.4705 said:

@"Steven.7534" said:

https://imgur.com/4iq9xtF

I found this print in the mission "Distract, Destroy Distrust". It was when we destroy the supply bunker for Smodur. This might have been a hint of what the Domination was planning for Jormag.

I was wondering what that thing was and it is written in asuran script. It's sketches of the original models of asuran gates (concept art) and a leviathan. It is translated as...."This is what I believe brought forth the blessed vehicle" pointing at center of asura gate. The outer ring of the gate is legended "Octostash".Along several other asuran sentences and mechanic terms.

It also has very funny sentences like "With wheels lights as emblems of Nissan etched on rear"!

That asset is also present in recon cove, grothmar valley but lower quality, so took the one in drizzlewood to translate. Thanks the devs btw to have put that asset again with better quality.

That's a very generic billboard art asset that has existed since the core game. You can find it in most Order of Whispers or Priory bases, including the Chantry of Secrets, Durmand Priory, and the Ebonhawke Whisper base iirc.

It has zero lore relations to the Icebrood Saga.

[draxynnic.3719]

@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:This is probably similar to Aurene's "Branding" of Caithe, where Aruene asked, Caithe allowed it to happen, and it allowed her to "corrupt" another dragon minion, despite that typically not being possible directly. Caithe still keeps her free will and all that, but is still connected to Aurene. Jormag has always done something similar, using promises of power to "corrupt" living beings into accepting it willingly, without just outright Icebrooding them directly.

We've known since Kudu's Monster that multi-corruption was possible, just that the Elder Dragons seemed to refrain from doing so. It's possible that the reason is that once a creature is made into a dragon minion, a second dragon corrupting the creature does not grant the second dragon control so the second dragon has nothing to gain from corrupting another dragon's minion - which isn't a problem for the Inquest and may even be beneficial, since they're looking to break or subvert the connection between Elder Dragons and their minions themselves. Aurene's conversion of Caithe, therefore, might purely be a matter of Aurene not caring about control because she doesn't want minions that lack free will.