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Are grenades ever going to be toned down?


mrauls.6519

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

its fine to have burst skills, in fact its very healthy. whats unhealthy is having everything as burst skill due to ~20 stacks of might, berk amulet and having omega low cooldowns on everything, on top of massive sustain that makes running berserker VERY safe.Its fine when core booms you with barrage, they have WAY less ways to boom you, so you can keep your cooldowns ready for it, against holo they just have so much shit that hits hard that you just run dry.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability
if
all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

Personally I do have a major problem with ranged classes getting so much damage. Try and play Warrior as pure melee and wonder why none of your skills do this much damage despite being in your opponents face. This damage is fine but you MUST be taking some of risk to do this damage. There is no risk for an engy to sit on elevated terrain and throw nades at enemies on the point.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

Is mortar fine too? that's holosmith too..no wait.....-_-

As a matter of fact, yes. Congratulations. You've figured out that the damage boosting traits of the Holosmith spec combined with its easy Might income from the same trait line is the source of the potentially absurd damage of not only the Grenade Kit, but also the Mortar Kit, and also all damage dealing skills!

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Glad at least a few people get it.

If a build is overperforming, you determine the root of the issue. Nades are not overperforming. Nades are the hardest hitting component of an over performing build.Nerf Holo's might gen and/or damage multipliers and you nerf their nade dps.

Nades will continue to be balanced on both Core and Scrapper.

Nerf nades and you leave the core issue behind. Holo will most likely find some other way (prybar) to melt your face off.

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@kraven.9578 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

Is mortar fine too? that's holosmith too..no wait.....-_-

Are nades and mortar as powerful on Core and Scrapper as they are on Holo? No, they are not.

you can get the same dmg with nades on core ... the difference between holo and core nades isnt the damage. both can achieve same damage but with different trait lines.

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Holo is just overall good. The damage on nades is great, but the spec actually needs to kite a lot if you want to 1v1 on it, that’s where it annoys me with so much utility- an Invuln that isn’t channeled, crazy mobility and super fast resustain with huge boon uptime, just great overall.

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@Dantheman.3589 said:Holo is just overall good. The damage on nades is great, but the spec actually needs to kite a lot if you want to 1v1 on it, that’s where it annoys me with so much utility- an Invuln that isn’t channeled, crazy mobility and super fast resustain with huge boon uptime, just great overall.

Wait, why does it matter if the invuln is channeled or not?

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Holo is just overall good. The damage on nades is great, but the spec actually needs to kite a lot if you want to 1v1 on it, that’s where it annoys me with so much utility- an Invuln that isn’t channeled, crazy mobility and super fast resustain with huge boon uptime, just great overall.

Wait, why does it matter if the invuln is channeled or not?

They can stomp downs risk free duh. Just adds even more to an already insanely fast paced spec

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability
if
all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

Blind, bleed, combo fields, 9 stacks of poison - it does plenty. The poison may not be that big of a deal without running a condition build but the healing reduction is. The conditions negating effects like regen. That damage doesn’t need to be baked into a kit. Do ele conjured weapons even do that much damage? And they’re on a cool down with limited charges.

And yes, it hits like a truck on scrapper too.

We could also just stop giving professions easy access to full stacks of might. Or in engineers case, seemingly every boon in the game.

Reducing power coefficients doesn’t mean much when you give a class 25 might for pressing a few buttons, on top of easy access to quickness that’s increasing attack and skill speed.

If you look at over performing classes, it seems the commonality has always been boon access. With the exception of mirage which was mechanic based.

Firebrand, scrounge if running boon on removal, holo, ranger, what else?

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@Bast.7253 said:

Blind, bleed, combo fields, 9 stacks of poison - it does plenty. The poison may not be that big of a deal without running a condition build but the healing reduction is. The conditions negating effects like regen. That damage doesn’t need to be baked into a kit. Do ele conjured weapons even do that much damage? And they’re on a cool down with limited charges.

First of all, I was talking about grenade barrage, not the grenade kit.And grenade barrage does nothing of the things you list there except the bleed if you use the trait shrapnel. Which is currently not used on the holosmith build.

Second, where does grenade kit provide any combo fields?It doesn't have any. It used to have a poison combo field on 5, but they changed that 5 years ago. Seems your data is a bit outdated....

And yes, engineer actually needs that much damage baked into kits. Elementalist doesn't rely that heavily on conjured weapons, since they have 4 weapon sets by default because of the attunement mechanic.

Engineer doesn't have attunements, all toolbelt skills have a cooldown and therefore a downtime, too.Kits are the replacement for weapons on engineer. By design, engineer has the least amount of chosable weapons. Core just has 3 weapon sets in total to chose from (rifle, pistol/shield, pistol/pistol)!

And the weapons we have are also kinda bad compared to the weapons of other classes. The improvement to shield recently was a step in the right direction, but in comparison engineer's weapons are still bad.As long as they don't change that, engineer absolutely needs the kits to do good damage.

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@Bast.7253 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability
if
all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

Blind, bleed, combo fields, 9 stacks of poison - it does plenty. The poison may not be that big of a deal without running a condition build but the healing reduction is. The conditions negating effects like regen. That damage doesn’t need to be baked into a kit. Do ele conjured weapons even do that much damage? And they’re on a cool down with limited charges.

It does not create combo fields. Youre thinking of mortar kit. For which you could make a similar list, and yet it isnt used at all. And yeah that damage needs to be baked into a kit, thats the whole point. Engineer only has 1 weaponset instead of 2, so kits are there to replace other weapons at the cost of a utility slot. Ele has 4 skill bars, by comparision. Also, yes, actually. Im pretty sure conjured weapons hit even harder, theyre just not good because theyre conjured weapons.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

It does not create combo fields. Youre thinking of mortar kit. For which you could make a similar list, and yet it isnt used at all. And yeah that damage needs to be baked into a kit, thats the whole point. Engineer only has 1 weaponset instead of 2, so kits are there to replace other weapons at the cost of a utility slot. Ele has 4 skill bars, by comparision. Also, yes, actually. Im pretty sure conjured weapons hit even harder, theyre just not good because theyre conjured weapons.

Still think that grenade kit and mortar kit are way too similar, btw. Both apply poison, chill, blind...Mortar kit just gets the associated combo fields in exchange for damage.

We could really use a big kit rework patch in general. I don't quite understand why they are all so mixed in their damage type.They made flamethrower almost entirely condition based.... except the auto attack, which still uses power damage primarily.Bombs should be our power damage kit in my opinion, yet we have the fire bomb as one of our best condition attacks in it and some confusion.Elixir gun is supposed to be a supportive kit, yet we have a hard hitting power damage skill in it with acid bomb.

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@Kuma.1503 said:Glad at least a few people get it.

If a build is overperforming, you determine the root of the issue. Nades are not overperforming. Nades are the hardest hitting component of an over performing build.Nerf Holo's might gen and/or damage multipliers and you nerf their nade dps.

Nades will continue to be balanced on both Core and Scrapper.

Nerf nades and you leave the core issue behind. Holo will most likely find some other way (prybar) to melt your face off.

You do realize more than one thing can be overperforming at once, right? Just because something is core and not on an elite doesn't mean it can't be too strong, I'm sick of seeing this defense. The moment someone says something is strong that isn't on an elite spec, people freak out because omg leave core alone when sometimes something in the core class is still too strong, it being made much worse by another overperforming thing like an elite just compounds it.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

It does not create combo fields. Youre thinking of mortar kit. For which you could make a similar list, and yet it isnt used at all. And yeah that damage needs to be baked into a kit, thats
the whole point
. Engineer only has 1 weaponset instead of 2, so kits are there to replace other weapons at the cost of a utility slot. Ele has 4 skill bars, by comparision. Also, yes, actually. Im pretty sure conjured weapons hit even harder, theyre just not good because theyre conjured weapons.

Still think that grenade kit and mortar kit are way too similar, btw. Both apply poison, chill, blind...Mortar kit just gets the associated combo fields in exchange for damage.

Thats because Mortar Kit originally wasnt a kit. They are probably too similar, but Im not sure how to fix it. Mortar kit should have the range advantage, but you never hit someone at loooong range.

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