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Forced to grind levels, even on a paid account?


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I've been around for many different iterations of the game, including before and after the starting zones were revamped and again when they added the 'new player experience' collections and achievements. Throughout this, I've leveled a number of characters to 80 and never felt limited in the ways you describe.

You're not meant to rush to level 80 or immediately dive into the expansions or even bulletrun to the end of the personal story. For your first playthrough, the idea is to simply experience core Tyria, touching on the personal story as you grow strong enough to do so (you even get in-game mail notifying you of your progress as it pertains to dungeon access). The road block you're talking about (you must be level x to do content y) seems perfectly natural to me. I've played countless games where your character will see a blocked off area with the dialogue 'I'm not strong enough to face the monsters in there; I'll come back later!'

By the time you make a second character, it's expected you'll know the ropes and be able to either use level tomes (these start to accumulate very quickly) or the skills you learned while leveling your last character to complete the leveling process more quickly. With the addition of gliding and mounts from the expansions, the ability to breeze through leveling and map completion has been made even faster.

Maybe there's a sense of urgency when starting the game now because there are two expansions, five LS seasons, and therefore a lot of ground to cover. Removing level requirements from content won't do a single thing to help with that.

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I'm not missing your point I'm trying to determine if you have actually done anything in game that has had a time gate which has effectively a very lengthy grind behind it which in the matter of gaining a few levels for story seems fairly silly and getting outraged over a very minor point of content even sillier. The fact that you havent answered the question make me wonder what you truly think grind IS.

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@"AgentMoore.9453" said:I've been around for many different iterations of the game, including before and after the starting zones were revamped and again when they added the 'new player experience' collections and achievements. Throughout this, I've leveled a number of characters to 80 and never felt limited in the ways you describe.

You're not meant to rush to level 80 or immediately dive into the expansions or even bulletrun to the end of the personal story. For your first playthrough, the idea is to simply experience core Tyria, touching on the personal story as you grow strong enough to do so (you even get in-game mail notifying you of your progress as it pertains to dungeon access). The road block you're talking about (you must be level x to do content y) seems perfectly natural to me. I've played countless games where your character will see a blocked off area with the dialogue 'I'm not strong enough to face the monsters in there; I'll come back later!'

By the time you make a second character, it's expected you'll know the ropes and be able to either use level tomes (these start to accumulate very quickly) or the skills you learned while leveling your last character to complete the leveling process more quickly. With the addition of gliding and mounts from the expansions, the ability to breeze through leveling and map completion has been made even faster.

Maybe there's a sense of urgency when starting the game now because there are two expansions, five LS seasons, and therefore a lot of ground to cover. Removing level requirements from content won't do a single thing to help with that.

But this is my main issue with this entire thing.

"I have played many games that do ..."

Guild Wars, has never been about that sort of gating.

You can explore the world, if you are able.

I understand your point in the sense of "Urgency" and trying to catch up with people now the game is 8 years old.

But I think more than likely, the issue is that people that are NOW joining the game have already experienced this grind before on another MMORPG - and do not want to experience it again.

If Guild Wars 2 wants to increase their player base, they do not want to be gating the best part of their content behind Milking Cows (Which literally just has the character doing a dance Emote - Really?)

If it was gated behind Quality content, that was entertaining to all, then YES. I understand - but its not. Its repetitive, and drawn out. Not just for veteran Guild Wars players, but any sort of Veteran MMORPG players.

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Different strokes. A few years ago I was looking into this game, seeing if I'd want to play it. I found some older videos of the personal storyline on youtube, and when watching them, I noticed that the player was constantly having to level up to get to the next story step. It looked so incredibly boring, tedious, and grindy that it very nearly drove away any interest I had in the game, even though I liked the story. I had the same problem with SWTOR, which used the same system of leveling. Bleh. It sapped all the fun I had and, at times, felt like a slogging drudge to go level up just so I can experience the next tiny bit of story.

When I started playing, I found that it had changed: each story "chapter" was in a chunk of content, every ten levels. So much more manageable to deal with! It felt natural for story progression and implies the passage of time between chapters. I never felt forced to "grind" - I was using the in-story time off I got from the last chapter to rest and relax and go do whatever I wanted in the grand wide world of Tyria.

Your experience is different than mine. My experience is different than your friend's. I don't think there's any one right or wrong way to do it, but I'm personally quite happy with the way the personal story is set up now.

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@Head Kracker.4790 said:I'm not missing your point I'm trying to determine if you have actually done anything in game that has had a time gate which has effectively a very lengthy grind behind it which in the matter of gaining a few levels for story seems fairly silly and getting outraged over a very minor point of content even sillier. The fact that you havent answered the question make me wonder what you truly think grind IS.

I am rank 1250 in WvW.

That is about it.

I do not grind, nor do most people want too. They want to play content they enjoy.

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@"Batel.9206" said:Different strokes. A few years ago I was looking into this game, seeing if I'd want to play it. I found some older videos of the personal storyline on youtube, and when watching them, I noticed that the player was constantly having to level up to get to the next story step. It looked so incredibly boring, tedious, and grindy that it very nearly drove away any interest I had in the game, even though I liked the story. I had the same problem with SWTOR, which used the same system of leveling. Bleh. It sapped all the fun I had and, at times, felt like a slogging drudge to go level up just so I can experience the next tiny bit of story.

When I started playing, I found that it had changed: each story "chapter" was in a chunk of content, every ten levels. So much more manageable to deal with! It felt natural for story progression and implies the passage of time between chapters. I never felt forced to "grind" - I was using the in-story time off I got from the last chapter to rest and relax and go do whatever I wanted in the grand wide world of Tyria.

Your experience is different than mine. My experience is different than your friend's. I don't think there's any one right or wrong way to do it, but I'm personally quite happy with the way the personal story is set up now.

Was Guild Wars 2 your first MMO?

Edit, because I have just seen you have played SWTOR before - I have never played that game so I cannot compare.

I am basing what I saying right now, on my experience of the influx of new players aNet are getting and how they are accept the game as is.

Its not positive overall.

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My experience was amazing positive, which is why I here after 15 years of Guild Wars game play.

But I wasn't restricted to the time-gate to play the story.

The amount of times I have had to give people the answer "If you don't want to grind this PvE content, you need Tomes of knowledge" answer is just sickening.

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OP keeps repeating that Guild Wars 2 was never about having a requisite for the Personal Story; yet, that requisite has been part of the Personal Story for three-quarters of Guild Wars 2's lifespan.
Also, how is it 'grinding' when you can visit a variety of maps and do all manner of different content to level up?If you don't like Queensdale, and what it has to offer, go visit Metrica, or Wayfarer, or Caledon, or Ashford. Every new character has access to all 5 starter maps.

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@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:OP keeps repeating that Guild Wars 2 was never about having a requisite for the Personal Story; yet, that requisite has been part of the Personal Story for three-quarters of Guild Wars 2's lifespan.

Also, how is it 'grinding' when you can visit a variety of maps and do all manner of different content to level up?If you don't like Queensdale, and what it has to offer, go visit Metrica, or Wayfarer, or Caledon, or Ashford. Every new character has access to all 5 starter maps.

I did state in my original post, that it has been 7 years since I naturally levelled a character.

I am just stating the feedback I am getting from new players RIGHT NOW, and my own personal hatred for the changes.

Just imagine a new player, just finished an amazingly scripted story line - with great voice acting, great characters.

Okay, now 10 more levels of grinding in a field washing Graffiti off a wall (and running around Way Points, yes I understand there are different types of content out there in GW2)

The fact stands, this SHOULD NOT BE GATED.

The player should find the restrictions by themselves by trying - such as a previous post stated, when you get to a mission that is too high for your character - your damage will literally become null.

I am not against that in the slightest.

But you remove a players freedom to try anything in a "Open World" game, it is no longer "Open World" and you are pushed down a route.

This is how new players feel RIGHT NOW.

I am telling you this from 3 months of spending hours a day in Queensdale & Kessex Hills.

This is how people are finding the GAME, so if you are arguing because you are sat there with 300 mastery points & 7 leggy weapons, you have no concept of the basis of my claim.

You can deny all you want - but for an MMORPG to continue growing it needs to accommodate new players. Guild Wars 2, is not currently accommodating its new influx of players and is loosing the vast majority of potential revenue it could be generating because of this gate.

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@ConorT.5396 said:

Guild Wars, has never been about that sort of gating.I am rank 1250 in WvW.

That is about it.

I do not grind, nor do most people want too. They want to play content they enjoy.

So all the thousands of people who have done either Gryphon and or Skyscale hacked them into their account then? And do you actually have ascended full sets of armor in WVW then? I mean that all takes time for a benefit that people do all quite often right? That can technically be called a grind especially if your farming for material.

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@Head Kracker.4790 said:

Guild Wars, has never been about that sort of gating.I am rank 1250 in WvW.

That is about it.

I do not grind, nor do most people want too. They want to play content they enjoy.

So all the thousands of people who have done either Gryphon and or Skyscale hacked them into their account then? And do you actually have ascended full sets of armor in WVW then? I mean that all takes time for a benefit that people do all quite often right? That can technically be called a grind especially if your farming for material.

I have 3 full ascended sets of armor, and at least 14 ascended weapons.

I have never been forced to grind for them. I gained them through playing game modes I enjoyed.

I have never crafted or gathered.

But apart from that I do not understand your point.

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@Head Kracker.4790 said:

@"ConorT.5396" said:

Guild Wars, has never been about that sort of gating.I am rank 1250 in WvW.

That is about it.

I do not grind, nor do most people want too. They want to play content they enjoy.

So all the thousands of people who have done either Gryphon and or Skyscale hacked them into their account then? And do you actually have ascended full sets of armor in WVW then? I mean that all takes time for a benefit that people do all quite often right? That can technically be called a grind especially if your farming for material.

Also, mounts are not CORE like we are discussing - I have also stated I am not against some time-gating related to a mount that allows you to fly.

That is a benefit that is allowed to exclusive players who have worked for it.

Getting to the "Battle of claw island" should not take as much of a grind as grinding the Skyscale.

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@ConorT.5396 said:I am telling you this from 3 months of spending hours a day in Queensdale & Kessex Hills.

Oh god, no wonder you're so passionate. Don't do that. Nobody deserves three months of Queensdale.

Queensdale is a map you can complete in under a single hour and that's by just trotting around doing basic renown hearts and exploring. Everything you do contributes toward your leveling, even walking around and finding new nooks, mining ore, chopping down trees, and punching the odd Moa bird in the beak. This kind of 'rewarded no matter how you choose to play' approach is absolutely what early GW2 is about. ..but even then, that's just one map. There are SO many more open to you, and the UI even points them out with messages like 'new adventures await you in x map!'

As a new player, I delighted in exploration. For the sake of your brainmeats, branch out to different maps! Explore, talk to NPCs with dialogue options, turn on your ambient noise and listen to the chatter in towns, challenge your friends to see who can climb to the top of a building the fastest, goof off! You'll level without noticing and have a far greater appreciation for the game than if you narrowly focus on leveling.

Even if all level gating was removed, it would still be my advice to meander around the game and let yourself appreciate the world. Doing this makes the story more meaningful and it'll help you invest emotions into the characters you meet along the way. If experiencing story is your primary goal in GW2, this kind of world-investment becomes even more important.

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@AgentMoore.9453 said:

@ConorT.5396 said:I am telling you this from 3 months of spending hours a day in Queensdale & Kessex Hills.

Oh god, no wonder you're so passionate.
Don't do that
. Nobody deserves three months of Queensdale.

Queensdale is a map you can complete in under a single hour and that's by just trotting around doing basic renown hearts and exploring. Everything you do contributes toward your leveling, even walking around and finding new nooks, mining ore, chopping down trees, and punching the odd Moa bird in the beak. This kind of 'rewarded no matter how you choose to play' approach is absolutely what early GW2 is about. ..but even then, that's just one map. There are SO many more open to you, and the UI even points them out with messages like 'new adventures await you in x map!'

As a new player, I delighted in exploration. For the sake of your brainmeats, branch out to different maps! Explore, talk to NPCs with dialogue options, turn on your ambient noise and listen to the chatter in towns, challenge your friends to see who can climb to the top of a building the fastest, goof off! You'll level without noticing and have a far greater appreciation for the game than if you narrowly focus on leveling.

Even if all level gating was removed, it would still be my advice to meander around the game and let yourself appreciate the world. Doing this makes the story more meaningful and it'll help you invest emotions into the characters you meet along the way. If experiencing story is your primary goal in GW2, this kind of world-investment becomes even more important.

Your enthusiasm is great to see, and I love hearing that you are finding the world of Tyria immersive, just as we all did back at release as veteran Guild Wars 1 players.

Sadly, you are the minority (in my experience) - of new players that are joining the game.

I have experienced everything you have stated & I promise you, I have experienced it as passionately as you have or I wouldn't be sticking by aNet for 15 years & bringing this HUGE issue up to keep the game alive 8 years after its launch.

I hope you continue to enjoy the game & I hope to see you on the battle field in Eternal Battle Grounds sometime in the future.

Just do not get on the wrong side of my axe.

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@AgentMoore.9453 said:

@ConorT.5396 said:I am telling you this from 3 months of spending hours a day in Queensdale & Kessex Hills.

Oh god, no wonder you're so passionate.
Don't do that
. Nobody deserves three months of Queensdale.

Queensdale is a map you can complete in under a single hour and that's by just trotting around doing basic renown hearts and exploring. Everything you do contributes toward your leveling, even walking around and finding new nooks, mining ore, chopping down trees, and punching the odd Moa bird in the beak. This kind of 'rewarded no matter how you choose to play' approach is absolutely what early GW2 is about. ..but even then, that's just one map. There are SO many more open to you, and the UI even points them out with messages like 'new adventures await you in x map!'

As a new player, I delighted in exploration. For the sake of your brainmeats, branch out to different maps! Explore, talk to NPCs with dialogue options, turn on your ambient noise and listen to the chatter in towns, challenge your friends to see who can climb to the top of a building the fastest, goof off! You'll level without noticing and have a far greater appreciation for the game than if you narrowly focus on leveling.

Even if all level gating was removed, it would still be my advice to meander around the game and let yourself appreciate the world. Doing this makes the story more meaningful and it'll help you invest emotions into the characters you meet along the way. If experiencing story is your primary goal in GW2, this kind of world-investment becomes even more important.

Also, please remember - I am not a new player.

I am a veteran player focused on helping new players join the game & support aNet.

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@ConorT.5396 said:

Guild Wars, has never been about that sort of gating.I am rank 1250 in WvW.

That is about it.

I do not grind, nor do most people want too. They want to play content they enjoy.

So all the thousands of people who have done either Gryphon and or Skyscale hacked them into their account then? And do you actually have ascended full sets of armor in WVW then? I mean that all takes time for a benefit that people do all quite often right? That can technically be called a grind especially if your farming for material.

Also, mounts are not CORE like we are discussing - I have also stated I am not against some time-gating related to a mount that allows you to fly.

That is a benefit that is allowed to exclusive players who have worked for it.

Getting to the "Battle of claw island" should not take as much of a grind as grinding the Skyscale.

You know what I'm not gonna be nice. This game has grind. It has had it since day one in the fact that dungeon tokens had caps and diminishing returns. What your seemingly trying to ignore in nostalgia is that its always been there. That and the fact seems to me that your not really playing this game in a pve environment since you seem to be ignoring quite literally the other 4 starter zones and that hearts can have a decent amount of XP attached. The fact that you seems to be willfully ignoring that seems more a failing on you and that restricting your friend and yourself to Queensdale for 3 weeks is all on YOU rather than a fault of the game itself. If you had actually explored or played in different zones the game probably would have had more to offer you at a lower level. That continues onto the zones outside of the starter areas which with level and story progression actually pretty much keep you on par if you actually contribute to the exploration and actual playing of the game outside of WVW. Your experiences in wvw seem extensive but that does not translate into the main PVE world.

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So, why are you staying in Queensdale? Why not take the L2 players to Metrica, or any other starter map?
It seems very odd that every new player created a Human, to begin with; but, even if they did, why stay in Queensdale?Also, there is a lot more to Guild Wars 2 than just the Personal Story. Some even believe it's one of the weaker parts of GW2.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:So, why are you staying in Queensdale? Why not take the L2 players to Metrica, or any other starter map?

It seems very odd that every new player created a Human, to begin with; but, even if they did, why stay in Queensdale?Also, there is a lot more to Guild Wars 2 than just the Personal Story. Some even believe it's one of the weaker parts of GW2.

Because the largest portion of new players create Human characters, this is fact. Statistical fact.

I am simply helping people along their journey on where they are at.

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@Head Kracker.4790 said:

Guild Wars, has never been about that sort of gating.I am rank 1250 in WvW.

That is about it.

I do not grind, nor do most people want too. They want to play content they enjoy.

So all the thousands of people who have done either Gryphon and or Skyscale hacked them into their account then? And do you actually have ascended full sets of armor in WVW then? I mean that all takes time for a benefit that people do all quite often right? That can technically be called a grind especially if your farming for material.

Also, mounts are not CORE like we are discussing - I have also stated I am not against some time-gating related to a mount that allows you to fly.

That is a benefit that is allowed to exclusive players who have worked for it.

Getting to the "Battle of claw island" should not take as much of a grind as grinding the Skyscale.

You know what I'm not gonna be nice. This game has grind. It has had it since day one in the fact that dungeon tokens had caps and diminishing returns. What your seemingly trying to ignore in nostalgia is that its always been there. That and the fact seems to me that your not really playing this game in a pve environment since you seem to be ignoring quite literally the other 4 starter zones and that hearts can have a decent amount of XP attached. The fact that you seems to be willfully ignoring that seems more a failing on you and that restricting your friend and yourself to Queensdale for 3 weeks is all on YOU rather than a fault of the game itself. If you had actually explored or played in different zones the game probably would have had more to offer you at a lower level. That continues onto the zones outside of the starter areas which with level and story progression actually pretty much keep you on par if you actually contribute to the exploration and actual playing of the game outside of WVW. Your experiences in wvw seem extensive but that does not translate into the main PVE world.

Stopped reading after the first 12 words.

Guild Wars, should not be a grind to play the story. Simple - and that is my argument. That is not what Guild Wars has ever been about.

It has lost its niche,

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:So, why are you staying in Queensdale? Why not take the L2 players to Metrica, or any other starter map?

It seems very odd that every new player created a Human, to begin with; but, even if they did, why stay in Queensdale?Also, there is a lot more to Guild Wars 2 than just the Personal Story. Some even believe it's one of the weaker parts of GW2.

And my feedback is from new players ranging from level 10-20 which is perfect to sample the un-enjoyment of the gating of the story line.

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Well, since it has not changed in 6+ years, and there has been very few, if any, laments about it, I don't see it changing from a post created by someone that hasn't played in 7 years and isn't that familiar with the game.If ArenaNet felt the need to change it, they would have when they updated the NPE just recently.

Still, best of luck.

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