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Bring back the holy trinity.


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I know what you are thinking. NO.I get it.However I think Guild wars 2 is a fantastic game but the way they have done combat has sort of elimanted "strategy"We currenly have a soft trinity.Some characters can tank.. however usually those characters dont seem like they should be the ones tanking.Some build are better for buffing.Some are great for healing.

However because everyone can heal themselves, because everyone can rez, because every specialization can dps things are a bit "all over the place"

  1. this makes the game incrediblyl hard to balance.
  2. I personally believe that most people are still smashing buttons because you rarely have to strategize.
  3. While we do work togethr oftern in gw2 its almost too passive.
  4. everything is too fast and it feels a bit like a mess.

What would the holy trinty do for guild wars 2.SLOW IT DOWN.I love action combat its great.But when i wanted to create a support character with my weaver i'm mostly healing by doing dps.or some random skill is giving someone might. or i'm giving a aura because of a passive.-- SO if we wanted to create a tempest spec that honored the holy trinity how would it be different.

  1. We would instead have a skill called " Radiant Aura" it would have a cool down and it would switch its effects based on what attunement you were in. This changes aura quite a bit from being passively applied to being purposely appllied. You would have to decide when would be the best time to place that specific attuned aura to a team mate.

Lets compare that to what we have now.How do we apply auras... well..there are like a thousand ways lol. you can get critally hit. you can use one of the shouts. you can do some dps with a flashy tornado skin.applying auras is currently passive.

This changes a lot of other things as well.Notice that in guild wars 2 there is a visual hot mess clutter of graphic effects especially when fighting big bosses. well thats becausse most people are using their skills to dps the boss in order to passivley help there team.Now with these more specific choices you have to make. you are popping less auras because you have to decide who needs it when.

Now we have to get rid of that heal skill that we all have.oof people are going to hate me for this. but as a warrior you should be tough you should be able to take hits but you shouldnt be able to provide a full heal to yourself.The heal button kind of destroys class identity and class neccessity.you should still be able to solo things but it should be much more easy to solo things with your buddy who enjoys support.

oh and pvp.. gurl the level of strategy it would bring to not just ranked.. but wvw.. gurrrrrrl.

gw2 is a fun game.. but it could be amazing they just need to revamp combat so people arent all doing the same thing.

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@Astyrah.4015 said:if they enforced holy trinity in GW2, i might finally roll a healer class

but i want targetted, direct heals & buffs if it ever happened.

this is exactly what i'm saying.that feeling of saving someone with a targeted healing skill is missing here.or purpose giving someone might so they can use their next big attack on the boss for tons of damage.

this not only feels good for the healer/ supporter but it makes the dps grateful to the healer.

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@kharmin.7683 said:How can GW2 bring back the holy trinity when the game was practically based on the lack thereof? No. Please enjoy your trinity in the many other MMOs where it is already well in place.

honestly.. instead of a living story or two.. if they sat back and revamped combat it would improve this game to the tenth.no other game has the world of guild wars 2.the feeling of getting on the mount for a joy ride.the beautiful zones that really just make you wanna go for a walk sometimes.

but the combat.. its good in feeling.but its not good in strategy or anything of substance.

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@Teratus.2859 said:The Trinity is kind of there in the game.. the problem is that there are very few areas of the game where it's valid to build for.

yes there is definitely a soft trinity.. but its distilled so far down that it makes builidng meaningful content more difficult.

lets imagine tequatal with the trinity.first you would have to have the tanks hold his aggro for his large damage spells.then the healers would have to keep those tanks alive.dps does dps.and maybe some characters could be build to support.---how much easier is it for them to build mechanic that provide meaningful challenge.so for the tanks- tank busters/ positioning smaller more aggressive bosses. dodging mechanics.for healers the bosses could send waves of enemies towards those healers making it more important for other tanks to protect them.now those healers are doging mechanic and healing while trying to stay protected.Dps characters are now trying to not only kill the boss but they have an active responsiblity to quickly dps down the waves of mobs that are targeting healers.The Characters like mesmers could be actively trying to disrupt large breakbars while boosting the dps attacks and providing some dps as well.---- how does this compare to now.the boss has a meter bar we all spam our skills when it comes up.they mostly spam aoe skills that we all dodge.everyone heals themselves.there are bright spells popping off all the time because we are all trying to use our skills to keep maximum uptime on regen and protection.the mecanichs of most bost fights kinda stale.

i'm not saying that there isnt currently no fun to be had..i'm just saying that it would honestly provide more team work.and that team work would be more fun.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Then, we sit and wait for a healer/tank to join our group?The more the Devs add 'healers'/'tanks', the more we see that in the LFG and the longer it takes to complete (start) the content.

this is the unfortunate downside to this.but this comes down to making support feel more fun.-- in wow i play disc priest and mistweaver monk.both of those are actually kind of fun to play solo.

but honestly this is a problem and I wish there was a simple fix for it.. but the truth is the alternative is kind of lacking..also if you raid.. or play higher end pve content.. you still end up waiting for a person who produces lots of alacrity and quicknesss.

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Supports are already fun. If you saw the kind of hell I can raise on a diviner chrono open world, you'd be amazed. The earth trembles when he walks.

Anyway, I really hate the holy trinity of MMO combat. It isn't a system of strengths. It is a system of weaknesses. Each person is inept by default, and only by working as a group can any cohesive unit be formed. This means that a group is only as strong as its weakest link. GW2s system means that I am wholly competent, capable of doing damage, healing, rezzing, and avoiding damage on my own time.

I wouldn't want to make myself impotent just adopt a 16 year old model of aggro management.

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I'll repost my response to this thread on reddit:

If you think taking out the holy trinity eliminated strategy, then you just haven't learned the strategy. There's plenty of that in composition of teams, providing all the boons, combo fields, and various protections.

You're just ignoring them.

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As someone who always plays Tank characters in Holy Trinity games...

I don't feel like GW2 is really set up to deal with Holy Trinity. As evidenced by its current state after shoehorning it into Raids in order to make Raids have some semblence of strategy to them beyond SMOrc...

As such, it would require a complete overhaul of the entire combat system and the effect of stats and likely still wouldn't result in something noteworthy. It would most likely still devolve into some method of "Tank" character auto generating "Aggro" and then just DPSing with inferior numbers until a "Tankbuster" happens where they press [insert Active Defence] button to nullify it. While "Healer" characters sit there spamming inferior DPS until a mechanic that does unavoidable AoE damage happens and then they use their AoE heal. While DPS just blindly mash DPS skills because they have literally no other player agency.

A truly unique and interesting Holy Trinity system would need to have the entire combat system designed around it, to ensure that each role has enough player agency and dynamic gameplay. Utilizing mechanics that make sense and also feel fun, rather than simply making tanks have binary gameplay of "Is boss attacking me yes/no?" and "Is tankbuster being used yes/no?" and healers alternating between not healing, spamming AoE heals or playing whack-a-mole with health bars and single target heals, with DPS just going SMOrc because that's all they can do.

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@lil muffin.1250 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:How can GW2 bring back the holy trinity when the game was practically based on the lack thereof? No. Please enjoy your trinity in the many other MMOs where it is already well in place.

honestly.. instead of a living story or two.. if they sat back and revamped combat it would improve this game to the tenth.no other game has the world of guild wars 2.the feeling of getting on the mount for a joy ride.the beautiful zones that really just make you wanna go for a walk sometimes.

but the combat.. its good in feeling.but its not good in strategy or anything of substance.

I disagree. I don't think that the game needs the type of "improvement" that you are advocating. It was designed without the trinity in mind for a reason, and I believe that the developers should stay with that vision.

@Vayne.8563 said:If you think taking out the holy trinity eliminated strategy, then you just haven't learned the strategy. There's plenty of that in composition of teams, providing all the boons, combo fields, and various protections.

You're just ignoring them.Well said.

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Trinity exists, but not in the way like the in most MMORPGs...DPS = Primary damage source, usually foregoes sustainability in order to maximize damage output.Support = Provides sustainability, via healing, blocking, boons and etc. Very limited effects against the enemy.Control = Limits the Enemy's actions, slows movement and etc.

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@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:And where is the strategy in the holy trinity?

You have a tank that just sits there, a healer keeping the tank alive and the dps has free cast, doing rotations.

WoW, much gameplay , such strategy.

I think that people who ask for this kind of thing are the ones DPSing and wanting others to sit back and keep them alive with healing because, to them, that healing "role" is boring and should be relegated to other players and not them.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:And where is the strategy in the holy trinity?

You have a tank that just sits there, a healer keeping the tank alive and the dps has free cast, doing rotations.

WoW, much gameplay , such strategy.

the trinity has a lotof strategy for several reasons.tanking is about positioning and protecting.you have to make sure the boss doesnt cleave all your dps and healersthis has massive potential in gw2.healers have to keep people alive.. this requires strategy.and dps has to dodge mechanics and do their rotation well.

this seem simple but it also is tons easier to design complicated content to.world bosses at the moment are people passively applying boons.running around and rezzing people and we are all just trying to dps the boss down fast enough.

with a trinity you have tanks holding down bosses and key enemies.healers keeping those tanks alive.dps trying to stay alive while dps those key big enemies so we can go back and focus on the big boss.

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GW2 has a holy trinity..

Pve: DPS / DPS / DPSSpvp: Gimmick / Gimmick / GimmickWvW: Condi bunker / Condi bunker / ministrel everything in a mono queue blob

Just play how u want xD

Joking asside, Gw2 does not have the mechanics for trinity gameplay nor the quoficients iteration to be changed to one, since build and gameplay just resumes to 2-5 certain gameplay builds (gimmicks for expectation of low effort VS win) tied on the game mode..

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