Jump to content
  • Sign Up

WvW Skirmish Tracks need a gold reward per Tier


Geoff Fey.1035

Recommended Posts

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:I never understand why anyone that plays WvW would not ask that we could make more while playing it.

Because some people see beyond the question at hand, and look at what would come next. That doesn't mean people like me agree with it, but it helps me understand perhaps why ANET makes some of the decisions it does.

In PvP and PvE, you have to be good to get max rewards. You need to win your fights and hold your nodes, or kill the fractal/raid boss.

In WvW you get rewarded for being on the map. The only throttle to that is participation, and we've already covered that, ad nauseum, about how people can literally farm rewards in WvW while doing nothing of any importance....but ANET can't just adjust how participation is awarded because sometimes the strategic move IS to run dolayks, and sometimes roamers need to be able to smack a damaged wall to refresh their participation. So long as the bulk of the rewards in WvW (Skirmish and Reward tracks) are handed out for just being on the map, there is a limit to what ANET can dole out.

Now many would suggest increasing the rewards given for activity, such as killing other players. And that will turn into guilds from different servers (or even the same people that are on multiple guilds on multiple servers) setting up farming time when they just kill each other for loots........kind of like what was done in EoTM.

When you have to deal with the "human condition" you have to play to the lowest common denominator, and that's largely why we can't have nice things.

I've completed Diamond already, and when I get home from work today and have 90 minutes to play, I can choose to go into WvW or into T4 Fractals. Both are things I enjoy, but one of them will put a nice chunk of gold in my wallet, while the other will just give me a handful of memories of battle.

So I have no objection at all to ANET increasing the rewards - in fact I would love it if they did. But I understand why they are reluctant to do so.

But you hit the root of the problem. I am ok with people thinking bigger picture, we could hope that people would do that before they offer a suggestion (they don't always but some do). But being a B2P game the forum tends to run as if its their job to figure out how to get around an issue or play the role of naysayer. Which can be helpful but at the end of the day it's up to the company that we all paid to do a task to resolve. The forums role is to say hey I think this is an issue, can we get your attention on this. I agree I wouldn't want more passive rewards but I wouldn't want ANet to walk away from the post where people just counter thinking everything is ok either. We want less people pulling out their CC to play WvW, and though I am sure its not a majority, it's more than it should be already. I don't mind ANet making development dollars from the store and support it that way, but they are rather finicky on this front in my book which does translate to less store support since it feels more forced.

Good hunting!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 90
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The kill farmers will just get killed by the other kill farmers and the kill trading will suddenly stop!

Meanwhile the "guys only looking to kill", have raid nights where they camp a spot to farm kills with other zergs like outside smc or areas around south towers or garri, or just sit in an open tower farming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just increase T6 mat drops in gw2 and tie them to killing folks. Thieves drop claws, rangers drop fangs, engineers drop bones, revs drop totems etc.That should at least drop the trading post price on whatever necros and guardians drop. X3

~ Kovu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"XenesisII.1540" said:The kill farmers will just get killed by the other kill farmers and the kill trading will suddenly stop!

Meanwhile the "guys only looking to kill", have raid nights where they camp a spot to farm kills with other zergs like outside smc or areas around south towers or garri, or just sit in an open tower farming.

We already have hackers and botters, that hasn't stopped anything else in WvW, why would we care about kill traders. See them, report them, have them banned. Why punish everyone else versus addressing the issue?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Vova.2640 said:And people who say "oh people will just coordinate and trade kills" you have no idea how wvw works.

Really.

Not going to list the original posters name (since they aren't part of this thread) but I'll just copy/paste what they said, as think it is a rather succinct description of the issue.

While its true that many did use EotM, don't forget that a lot of players used the old Obsidian Sanctum farm, back in the day I seen several streamers on twitch farming in here, 3 zergs mass killing each other, these players where going up 20-30 levels an hour with boosters, some of which today are 7k+ this is why Anet should look into WXP again,

And ...

@Vova.2640 said:And those who will go to wvw to farm kills by trading will just get farmed by those who don't care and are just looking to kill stuff. Simple as that.

Please go on. I feel you can teach me so much....

EotM is not even considered wvw for many of the rewards. Same can be applied for this. Only EBG + 3BLs.I dont think you get anything from kills in OS. If you do still get bags/drops anet can just disable that as well.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vova.2640 said:And people who say "oh people will just coordinate and trade kills" you have no idea how wvw works.If any guild group hears about this being done they will just go there and kill the kill-trades just for the fun of it.Most people in wvw enjoy playing and winning.

And those who will go to wvw to farm kills by trading will just get farmed by those who don't care and are just looking to kill stuff. Simple as that.

You must be new as this has occurred multiple times in the past and most likely still happens.

I played wvw for over 6 years so no, Im not new.Plus EotM and OS can be excluded from those kind of drops, as they are already excluded from any other reward related things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vova.2640 said:

@Vova.2640 said:And people who say "oh people will just coordinate and trade kills" you have no idea how wvw works.

Really.

Not going to list the original posters name (since they aren't part of this thread) but I'll just copy/paste what they said, as think it is a rather succinct description of the issue.

While its true that many did use EotM, don't forget that a lot of players used the old Obsidian Sanctum farm, back in the day I seen several streamers on twitch farming in here, 3 zergs mass killing each other, these players where going up 20-30 levels an hour with boosters, some of which today are 7k+ this is why Anet should look into WXP again,

And ...

@Vova.2640 said:And those who will go to wvw to farm kills by trading will just get farmed by those who don't care and are just looking to kill stuff. Simple as that.

Please go on. I feel you can teach me so much....

EotM is not even considered wvw for many of the rewards. Same can be applied for this. Only EBG + 3BLs.I dont think you get anything from kills in OS. If you do still get bags/drops anet can just disable that as well.

@Vova.2640 said:And people who say "oh people will just coordinate and trade kills" you have no idea how wvw works.If any guild group hears about this being done they will just go there and kill the kill-trades just for the fun of it.Most people in wvw enjoy playing and winning.

And those who will go to wvw to farm kills by trading will just get farmed by those who don't care and are just looking to kill stuff. Simple as that.

You must be new as this has occurred multiple times in the past and most likely still happens.

I played wvw for over 6 years so no, Im not new.Plus EotM and OS can be excluded from those kind of drops, as they are already excluded from any other reward related things.

There have been coordinated karma farms in the borderlands before between servers. There have also been a few times when the same was done for kills.

On a small scale, trading kills can easily be done as there are areas on all of the maps that nobody goes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vova.2640 said:

@Vova.2640 said:And people who say "oh people will just coordinate and trade kills" you have no idea how wvw works.

Really.

Not going to list the original posters name (since they aren't part of this thread) but I'll just copy/paste what they said, as think it is a rather succinct description of the issue.

While its true that many did use EotM, don't forget that a lot of players used the old Obsidian Sanctum farm, back in the day I seen several streamers on twitch farming in here, 3 zergs mass killing each other, these players where going up 20-30 levels an hour with boosters, some of which today are 7k+ this is why Anet should look into WXP again,

And ...

@Vova.2640 said:And those who will go to wvw to farm kills by trading will just get farmed by those who don't care and are just looking to kill stuff. Simple as that.

Please go on. I feel you can teach me so much....

EotM is not even considered wvw for many of the rewards. Same can be applied for this. Only EBG + 3BLs.I dont think you get anything from kills in OS. If you do still get bags/drops anet can just disable that as well.

@Vova.2640 said:And people who say "oh people will just coordinate and trade kills" you have no idea how wvw works.If any guild group hears about this being done they will just go there and kill the kill-trades just for the fun of it.Most people in wvw enjoy playing and winning.

And those who will go to wvw to farm kills by trading will just get farmed by those who don't care and are just looking to kill stuff. Simple as that.

You must be new as this has occurred multiple times in the past and most likely still happens.

I played wvw for over 6 years so no, Im not new.Plus EotM and OS can be excluded from those kind of drops, as they are already excluded from any other reward related things.

I have been in a squad where the commander was whispering the commander of an enemy zerg, who was playing on an alt account on that server, when his main account and guild are on my server, coordinating open field fights outside of SMC to help train pugs on movement and coordination.

If you don't think we could just as easily coordinate a situation where one group stands still and gets farmed, then return from respawn to return the favour, and do that over and over to farm drops... then I'm not sure what dimension of reality you inhabit, but I hope you have a very nice day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anything Im not sure what kind of dimension you lot live in lol.

You go on the assumption that everyone and their dog will suddenly start abusing this? And you base this on the fact that a some people coordinated some kill trade in the past? seriously what....Yes Im sure ppl still do this on small scale. It cannot be avoided. So listening to you two I get the impression anet shoud just remove drops/exp from kills altogether.Oh ppl trade objectives and ktrains maps? better remove all rewards and wxp from flipping objectives.

No serious what...!?!

Besides, this will hardly even be profitable.... a small chance to get some valuable junk item - maybe one truly valuable item in every 100-500 kills... you'll need so much to get much from it.

Sure you may have 10 ppl from each server trading kills but that will hardly yield anything assuming you'd need like 10-20 kills for one rng 10 silver item drop / 100-200 kills for one rng 1 gold item drop etc....You can literally make more gold killing mobs in wvw that drop T6 mats that sell for 15-25silver a piece.......

Cool you'll get 1-2 extra gold every 10min... or 6-12 gold every 1 hour.... by trading kills.....Yet it will literally be more profitable to run circles in silverwastes than doing this... The point of this is it will just add on top of the scraps we already get in wvw.

Geez how can people even have such a negative mindset towards everything lol...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vova.2640 said:You go on the assumption that everyone and their dog will suddenly start abusing this? And you base this on the fact that a some people coordinated some kill trade in the past? seriously what....

Nobody said everyone. That's a hyperbole. As with every other similar situation in the game, if you present the opportunity to abuse something there will be those that will take advantage of it. Increasing the value of drops increases the appeal to kill trading. This doesn't necessarily mean it would get as large as years ago in OS.

Yes Im sure ppl still do this on small scale. It cannot be avoided.

Moving the goal post? Just a few posts ago you said that these kill groups would be farmed by other kill groups. If they're still happening on the small scale then they're not getting farmed by other kill groups as you so stated. You essentially negated that entire argument of yours just now.

So listening to you two I get the impression anet shoud just remove drops/exp from kills altogether.Oh ppl trade objectives and ktrains maps? better remove all rewards and wxp from flipping objectives.

No serious what...!?!

Nobody said that. Please don't make things up. Another hyperbole as well.

Besides, this will hardly even be profitable.... a small chance to get some valuable junk item - maybe one truly valuable item in every 100-500 kills... you'll need so much to get much from it.

Sure you may have 10 ppl from each server trading kills but that will hardly yield anything assuming you'd need like 10-20 kills for one rng 10 silver item drop / 100-200 kills for one rng 1 gold item drop etc....You can literally make more gold killing mobs in wvw that drop T6 mats that sell for 15-25silver a piece.......

Cool you'll get 1-2 extra gold every 10min... or 6-12 gold every 1 hour.... by trading kills.....Yet it will literally be more profitable to run circles in silverwastes than doing this... The point of this is it will just add on top of the scraps we already get in wvw.

Geez how can people even have such a negative mindset towards everything lol...

If it's not profitable for a group of players farming it specifically over a consistent period of time, how would it be worth it to those that do not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@subversiontwo.7501 said:Why shouldn't WvW players have a fair shake at gearing themselves for WvW through WvW?

This is my opinion & speculation

  1. WvW players are paid minimum wage to farm & supply equipment that's sold in the Black Lion Trading Company.
  2. WvW players have to supplement their income by supporting activity in other game modes that pay more.
  3. WvW players spend a disproportionate amount of their total income. Actual cost is higher in comparison to other game modes due to the expense ratio to total income...which allows them to be suppressed in wealth generation & stuck in a cycle of servitude to all other game modes.

Just my observation using economic theories that's floating around in my head.

Sadly...WvW players will continue to be treated as an underdog...imho

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:In PvP and PvE, you have to be good to get max rewards. You need to win your fights and hold your nodes, or kill the fractal/raid boss.

I struggle with this because you really don't have to be good. There's a reason people complain about bots in PvP, being good is totally secondary to just playing a lot. Being good can INCREASE your rewards (of which WvW has no option). But being bad still results in having an income almost twice that of WvW for... well what is a tiny step up from AFKing.

I do agree that in principle how WvW is formatted leaves reward increases vulnerable to exploit. But there are a lot of different things Anet could implement in diverse small portions that would shrink the gap but not make extreme exploits/kill trading/what have you worth it. IE give keep lords a tiny chance at dropping super rare infusion X Y or Z, but also increase drops from enemies when you are participating in a Defend Objective event. Now kill trading is impractical because what the two sides want is directly opposed. If the one side kills the keep lord the other loses the increased drop chance. And you can't have a group just K-train around because they won't have any keeplords to farm after... 9? of them unless the enemy recaps them because they feel like they can defend it.

Edit: There are flaws to the above, wasn't meant to be an ideal solution, just that they exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"God.2708" said:But being bad still results in having an income almost twice that of WvW for... well what is a tiny step up from AFKing.

Hmm...to prevent this type of behavior...low hanging fruit that might be easy to code?

  1. Players earn points by Opening WvG Reward Chests that appear after flipping "Capture Rings" at various WvG location objectives

  2. "Capture Rings" spawn WvG Reward Chests after players flip them for (x minutes) & remains active to let players collect their Points & Rewards for themselves & their Home Server

  3. "Capture Rings" may reset to "Not Captured" for some WvG location objectives to allow it to be "Re-Captured" by Home Defenders or Enemy Raiders

See link - for full context:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064950/#Comment_1064950

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since the topic has shifted... to prevent abuse any things added need to be primarily accountbound if from skirmish track:

  • Instead of gold in skirmish chests put more warlord exotic armor boxes and ditch grandmaster mark shards for the grandmaster marks (i.e. 3x per week), this addresses subversiontwo's comment. ("Why shouldn't WvW players have a fair shake at gearing themselves for WvW through WvW?")
  • Instead of putting gold in the skirmish chests the reward for tier 3 keep capture should be higher. The reward for defending (not repairing wall) a T3 should be higher. Memories of battle should be more thematic to battles... For example: 2 memories of battle + guaranteed legendary spike + 5 rare unid could drop from lord room if you take a T3 keep with defenders that show up via emergency waypoint since it takes hours to tier it up. The programming would probably involve checking if EWP was pulled and if either team is outnumbered. 5% Chance for +5 stat WvW infusion selection chest drop (the ones you normally get for laurels or skirmish tickets). 1 memory of battle + 3 rare unid if you take a T3 keep and there is a fight in lord room vs similar numbers (i.e. not outnumbered for either team). 2% Chance for +5 stat WvW infusion selection chest drop. 1 memory of battle + 2 rare unid if you take a T2 keep and the EWP is pulled and neither team is outnumbered. 1 memory of battle + 30 badges of honor (enough for badge of tribute) if you defend a T3 keep in lord room by resurrecting lord or neutralizing the ring after the ring starts capping and successfully defending vs 25+ (no wall repair). The neutralizing / resurrecting lord and 25+ check means there is far lower chance for abuse.
  • Anything that involves paper objectives is going to fail terribly because it will just be ktrained 24/7 ...
  • Anything that involves skirmish rewards is just going to be afked

Tying anything to keep lords themselves is probably a bad idea as well, since if you have two groups one squad or subgroup might be on the EWP. I'd much rather it be event based as Diku suggested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Infusion.7149" said:Since the topic has shifted... to prevent abuse any things added need to be primarily accountbound if from skirmish track:

  • Instead of gold in skirmish chests put more warlord exotic armor boxes and ditch grandmaster mark shards for the grandmaster marks (i.e. 3x per week), this addresses subversiontwo's comment. ("Why shouldn't WvW players have a fair shake at gearing themselves for WvW through WvW?")

PvE gives you the ability to decide if you want to spend gold on gear or skins or what ever PLUS you gain free asc chests. Why do people always argue if WvW players should get anything of that too?

  • Instead of putting gold in the skirmish chests the reward for tier 3 keep capture should be higher. The reward for defending (not repairing wall) a T3 should be higher. Memories of battle should be more thematic to battles... For example: 2 memories of battle + guaranteed legendary spike + 5 rare unid could drop from lord room if you take a T3 keep with defenders that show up via emergency waypoint since it takes hours to tier it up. The programming would probably involve checking if EWP was pulled and if either team is outnumbered. 5% Chance for +5 stat WvW infusion selection chest drop (the ones you normally get for laurels or skirmish tickets). 1 memory of battle + 3 rare unid if you take a T3 keep and there is a fight in lord room vs similar numbers (i.e. not outnumbered for either team). 2% Chance for +5 stat WvW infusion selection chest drop. 1 memory of battle + 2 rare unid if you take a T2 keep and the EWP is pulled and neither team is outnumbered. 1 memory of battle + 30 badges of honor (enough for badge of tribute) if you defend a T3 keep in lord room by resurrecting lord or neutralizing the ring after the ring starts capping and successfully defending vs 25+ (no wall repair). The neutralizing / resurrecting lord and 25+ check means there is far lower chance for abuse.
  • Anything that involves paper objectives is going to fail terribly because it will just be ktrained 24/7 ...

This suggestions is only good for the server who has more players. lol

  • Anything that involves skirmish rewards is just going to be afked

Am i the only one who thinks that you can be brain afk in PvE and earn 10g/h??? Are you dead serious telling me that this is skilled gameplay? Even fracs are easy as hell after you did them one or two times.

Tying anything to keep lords themselves is probably a bad idea as well, since if you have two groups one squad or subgroup might be on the EWP. I'd much rather it be event based as Diku suggested.

It is so easy. Just give us more gold. You guys are making suggestions nowhere near realizable. We need a system for everyone. Anyone who wants to Zerg can Zerg, anyone who wants to roam can roam, anyone who wants to do something in between should be able to do that and get rewards for it. Let the people the freedom to play WvW as they want and not as you want them to play it god damn! Both modes are basically casual modes for everyone with some parts that can be mastered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure if the way I am thinking is wrong, having more gold is fun but I just play WvW not to make gold but to have some fun doing open world PVP. I literally don't do stuff based on how much gold I am making as long as I enjoy doing it. So even if WvW is not as rewarding as other parts are I just do for the fun and I also think most of the ppl do it for the same reason if ppl start doing WvW only cause they can make more gold than other parts of the game then I don't think I want to play against them. It is hard to get gears from WvW, I got most of my gears from other parts of the game like crafting and living worlds. the PvE, PvP, and WvW are not 3 different games but parts of one game :D so just play whatever u enjoy and the gold comes at its own pace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Deathifer.4897" said:Not sure if the way I am thinking is wrong, having more gold is fun but I just play WvW not to make gold but to have some fun doing open world PVP. I literally don't do stuff based on how much gold I am making as long as I enjoy doing it. So even if WvW is not as rewarding as other parts are I just do for the fun and I also think most of the ppl do it for the same reason if ppl start doing WvW only cause they can make more gold than other parts of the game then I don't think I want to play against them. It is hard to get gears from WvW, I got most of my gears from other parts of the game like crafting and living worlds. the PvE, PvP, and WvW are not 3 different games but parts of one game :D so just play whatever u enjoy and the gold comes at its own pace.

Nothing in your statement is wrong. It's a philosophy that I personally feel is quite healthy and balanced. The only issue is the question isn't "do I play content I enjoy for low rewards vs. content I don't enjoy that gives high rewards", but "do I play content I enjoy for low rewards vs. content I enjoy that give high rewards".

I'll use myself as an example (I used the same example in a post above). As I had already finished Diamond tier, I've maxed out my skirmish tickets for this week. When I get home from work I have about a 90 minute window for play before meal-time. What do I do? I want to log into WvW, because it is fun, but I also would like to do T4 fractal dailies, as they are also fun. On a level playing field, it becomes a simple choice. But since my time in WvW would reward me with little of value, since I can't earn more tickets until after weekly reset, I'd be better off doing Fractals which at least puts a guaranteed 25-30 gold into my pocket.

If players are repeatedly faced with a choice between two activities they enjoy and find fun, but one has a significantly higher level of rewards than the other, I think on average players will choose the activity with the higher reward. If I wasn't in the process of finishing off Legendary Armor, and needed to max my tickets each week, or if I was one of those veterans who has 5000 tickets already in their wallet, the rewards from WvW would be even less than they are now.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. I also don't know if it's really a problem for ANET's vision for the game. When did they say that WvW zerging should pay out the same level as T4 fractals?

But I also think for the health of this game, you need to give players incentive to zone into WvW instead of PvP or PvE, and Skirmish Tickets alone aren't enough of an incentive, given not everyone is actively in need of them, and they are capped at 365 per week in any case, leaving many players with nothing to chase once the weekend is over and/or they complete Diamond.

A PvP player who has finished the final Byz reward chest before the end of the 2-month season still has a reason to zone in and play more matches, as repeating the Byz chest remains rewarding. A WvW player who has finished the Diamond skirmish chest before the end of the weekly reset has no reason to zone in, as repeated Diamond chests are practically worthless. There also remains the issue of players being unable to complete Diamond each week because they don't have enough hours in a day to spend in WvW, but that's a different issue.

Should WvW reward players with more gold? Yes. How to do it without opening the door to exploits which will harm both the in game economy, and lead to more afk/botting, which with our map queue system would be more harmful than what we see going on in PvP? I have no idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Deathifer.4897 said:Not sure if the way I am thinking is wrong, having more gold is fun but I just play WvW not to make gold but to have some fun doing open world PVP. I literally don't do stuff based on how much gold I am making as long as I enjoy doing it. So even if WvW is not as rewarding as other parts are I just do for the fun and I also think most of the ppl do it for the same reason if ppl start doing WvW only cause they can make more gold than other parts of the game then I don't think I want to play against them. It is hard to get gears from WvW, I got most of my gears from other parts of the game like crafting and living worlds. the PvE, PvP, and WvW are not 3 different games but parts of one game :D so just play whatever u enjoy and the gold comes at its own pace.

This is where I have to use your mileage will vary and yes some of it is player choice. If you are making good coin, good on you. But your statement is quite one sided so if this isn't impacting you why try and bring it down. So take a havoc, and I will just use a sampling of things that could be for discussion.

Your job has many hats but one of those is to take down towers and keeps, take camps and defend objectives. For a tower you might end using 3 catapults. That's 1.2 gold per tower, you might hit 2-20 of those a night. Per keep might be 3-6 catas so that's 2.4 gold per. You might hit 0-12 of those a night. If you siege up a keep to defend that might be 12 AC, 4 bali, 2 cata, 3 treb 2 shield gens, that's 9.5 gold per. You will do this less often if you have people that refresh but.. Take a camp and leave golems, that's 2 gold per, camps you might hit 3-18, now you won't leave golems at all of those but.... Now all of this is using the factor of buying siege, but what was bought could have been sold instead, so again your mileage will vary.

Now that's before talking about gearing out. Happily hit 26 weeks of tickets yesterday so that was enough for a set of legendary armor. Again that's completely optional and is not needed, but is more efficient by fair then carrying around 4 sets of ascended gear to try and flip in and out of if needed for roles. Even saving all mats since last set and bidding on extra bags on TP and still not enough mats to craft them outright after last set 26 weeks before that. So when you factor in buying the missing mats and average that over the 26 weeks it took to get the tickets, that's 2 more gold per day as an expense.

Now foods......which if being efficient you will want to use every 30 mins if you have no boosters, that will vary greatly if you are using the ones that are by the provisioner or if you are crafting ascended ones for a group. So that could range from free (if you don't count a cost to badges) up to a few gold a day.

Now to be fair this could be shared expenses among people but either way there is a net gold lose from WvW that if you are not crafting for your groups, or acquiring siege or maxing your gear you might not think about but there is still a cost to WvW that people seem to brush under that comes from somewhere. That is where player choice comes granted, can you WvW in the exotic that you just earn, yes. Can you not use food and utility yes. Can you just use free siege that comes from drops, yes. Can you not deploy defensive siege, yes. Would you have been more effective in WvW if you did the extra bits, yes. Is it more fun to be efficient or to fail since you didn't take the extra steps.

So if you are making plenty of coin, good for you. But don't naysayer others saying the rewards are on the low side, it will just help you and any service provider out so that they don't have to leave the game mode they enjoy more to be able to restock for the one they do. Good hunting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Your job has many hats but one of those is to take down towers and keeps, take camps and defend objectives. For a tower you might end using 3 catapults. That's 1.2 gold per tower, you might hit 2-20 of those a night. Per keep might be 3-6 catas so that's 2.4 gold per. You might hit 0-12 of those a night. If you siege up a keep to defend that might be 12 AC, 4 bali, 2 cata, 3 treb 2 shield gens, that's 9.5 gold per. You will do this less often if you have people that refresh but.. Take a camp and leave golems, that's 2 gold per, camps you might hit 3-18, now you won't leave golems at all of those but.... Now all of this is using the factor of buying siege, but what was bought could have been sold instead, so again your mileage will vary.

Now to be fair this could be shared expenses among people but either way there is a net gold lose from WvW that if you are not crafting for your groups, or acquiring siege or maxing your gear you might not think about but there is still a cost to WvW that people seem to brush under that comes from somewhere. That is where player choice comes granted, can you WvW in the exotic that you just earn, yes. Can you not use food and utility yes. Can you just use free siege that comes from drops, yes. Can you not deploy defensive siege, yes. Would you have been more effective in WvW if you did the extra bits, yes. Is it more fun to be efficient or to fail since you didn't take the extra steps.

Ok why are you building guild version of siege (4-8x the cost) when you can get superior siege for free from reward tracks and skirmish chest? Less supply sure, but still only comes down to needing to use in the offensive catapult situations when supply and time is limited, not when you're sieging a camp or keep when you have big supply next to you.

Commanders are mainly ones who can't avoid the expense as they are usually the ones looked at to drop siege, but many get donations, or have the backing of a guild to help with this, even then a lot of them don't place defensive siege. My guild use to be one of those scouting/havoc with omega golems every day/upgrading/sieging up to 3 home keeps every day, and we did it without asking for donations or grumbled about the expense, because at the end of the day it was our choice.

If you're not making enough gold to cover this optional expense.... then drop it, especially since there's a free option for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@XenesisII.1540 said:Ok why are you building guild version of siege (4-8x the cost) when you can get superior siege for free from reward tracks and skirmish chest? Less supply sure, but still only comes down to needing to use in the offensive catapult situations when supply and time is limited, not when you're sieging a camp or keep when you have big supply next to you.

Commanders are mainly ones who can't avoid the expense as they are usually the ones looked at to drop siege, but many get donations, or have the backing of a guild to help with this, even then a lot of them don't place defensive siege. My guild use to be one of those scouting/havoc with omega golems every day/upgrading/sieging up to 3 home keeps every day, and we did it without asking for donations or grumbled about the expense, because at the end of the day it was our choice.

If you're not making enough gold to cover this optional expense.... then drop it, especially since there's a free option for it.

Your right, and as I stated its a choice thing. Since you ran havoc you know how tight you are on supply so for us, guild siege is the way to go since you will get the most from the least supply. And no like any player that actually deploys things in WvW you aren't looking for handouts from people, you do what you do because that's what you wanted to do. The point here was more there are costs to WvW, whether or not players choose to employee them is up to them. But that's not an excuse for the game mode to be the worst in recouping costs for playing it fully. So why should any of us come to the OP and say, nay you don't need it. Again, your mileage will vary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Your job has many hats but one of those is to take down towers and keeps, take camps and defend objectives. For a tower you might end using 3 catapults. That's 1.2 gold per tower, you might hit 2-20 of those a night. Per keep might be 3-6 catas so that's 2.4 gold per. You might hit 0-12 of those a night. If you siege up a keep to defend that might be 12 AC, 4 bali, 2 cata, 3 treb 2 shield gens, that's 9.5 gold per. You will do this less often if you have people that refresh but.. Take a camp and leave golems, that's 2 gold per, camps you might hit 3-18, now you won't leave golems at all of those but.... Now all of this is using the factor of buying siege, but what was bought could have been sold instead, so again your mileage will vary.

Now to be fair this could be shared expenses among people but either way there is a net gold lose from WvW that if you are not crafting for your groups, or acquiring siege or maxing your gear you might not think about but there is still a cost to WvW that people seem to brush under that comes from somewhere. That is where player choice comes granted, can you WvW in the exotic that you just earn, yes. Can you not use food and utility yes. Can you just use free siege that comes from drops, yes. Can you not deploy defensive siege, yes. Would you have been more effective in WvW if you did the extra bits, yes. Is it more fun to be efficient or to fail since you didn't take the extra steps.

Ok why are you building guild version of siege (4-8x the cost) when you can get superior siege for free from reward tracks and skirmish chest? Less supply sure, but still only comes down to needing to use in the offensive catapult situations when supply and time is limited, not when you're sieging a camp or keep when you have big supply next to you.

Commanders are mainly ones who can't avoid the expense as they are usually the ones looked at to drop siege, but many get donations, or have the backing of a guild to help with this, even then a lot of them don't place defensive siege. My guild use to be one of those scouting/havoc with omega golems every day/upgrading/sieging up to 3 home keeps every day, and we did it without asking for donations or grumbled about the expense, because at the end of the day it was our choice.

If you're not making enough gold to cover this optional expense.... then drop it, especially since there's a free option for it.

What are those suggestions these days? It’s a fact that you don’t generate enough gold for guild siege. Why should anyone be punished for trying to play the game mode with all its items. Even in PvE where you have to spent 1000 of golds for infusions you generate enough gold to finance this. I generate in 5 hours PvE more then I will gain in WvW playing the whole damn week. Heck you even generate by just flipping items more then you generate with WvW. Think about it. You can generate more gold then WvW by not playing this game at all. Ridiculous to even discuss about the reward balance between modes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has Anet ever stated that PvE, sPvP, and WvW are distinct game modes AND must be self sustainable for those that choose to hyper focus their time in only one? It seems to me that Anet treats the game as a whole rather than three separate games.

EDIT: Perhaps a better suggestion is that instead of monetary reward increases, Anet includes rewards that directly support people in playing that game mode.

Maybe they can increase siege rewards (it’ll probably drop these to vendor value).

Maybe they can let players exchange badges of honor for exotic food/utilities which cannot be sold or traded. Perhaps add another tab to that one trading gizmo to facilitate this.

Let players exchange badges of honor and tickets for ascended mats in a way that doesn’t tank the prices of those mats further.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TheGrimm.5624 said:But that's not an excuse for the game mode to be the worst in recouping costs for playing it fully. So why should any of us come to the OP and say, nay you don't need it. Again, your mileage will vary.

Well also not really a legit reason to increase gold overall for the entire game mode when this situation really only affects a very small percentage of wvw players and more so the ones who do it recklessly when there's a free option to it.

Not that I'm saying gold gains are fine in wvw, they never have been in 8 years, but I don't think gold increases should be implement as long as there's so much passive play to get it. Pve and spvp require you to be more active in running the metas or winning the match to get the gains, yes I know there's botting in there too, but wvw has long periods which you don't have to do anything for gains and that's a problem you don't want to keep encouraging, but also the solution to gate and stem certain abuse-able situations, as you can get kills at a much faster rate in wvw than the other two, but also sit on a treb for hours afk.

You can't increase drops because that would encourage kill trading, unless they have diminishing returns built in. You can't increase reward tracks because of afking participation, unless you adjust participation gains, which they probably won't.

I do think it would be nice to have more personal achievements to earn more gold, and not the regular go cap a tower do 3 dailies and get 2 gold. I mean like interrupt players 5000 times and get 5g (repeatable), heal for 50k and get 5g (repeatable), things that require you to be active in the game. Of course like anything else that is susceptible to botting, which is why numbers will have to very high and gains very low, which means zerging is more profitable.. this is why we can't have nice things in the end...

@Senqu.8054 said:What are those suggestions these days? It’s a fact that you don’t generate enough gold for guild siege. Why should anyone be punished for trying to play the game mode with all its items. Even in PvE where you have to spent 1000 of golds for infusions you generate enough gold to finance this. I generate in 5 hours PvE more then I will gain in WvW playing the whole kitten week. Heck you even generate by just flipping items more then you generate with WvW. Think about it. You can generate more gold then WvW by not playing this game at all. Ridiculous to even discuss about the reward balance between modes.

1000 of golds for infusions for the one and only game mode you need it for and absolutely required for higher levels, that you all say you can earn the most gold in.... right?Do you need infusions for wvw? no, not when exotics are still an acceptable replacement, and also not when it's infusions are also sold on the vendor for currency you already earn in the skirmish track.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@XenesisII.1540 said:

Not that I'm saying gold gains are fine in wvw, they never have been in 8 years, but I don't think gold increases should be implement as long as there's so much passive play to get it. Pve and spvp require you to be more active in running the metas or winning the match to get the gains, yes I know there's botting in there too, but wvw has long periods which you don't have to do anything for gains and that's a problem you don't want to keep encouraging, but also the solution to gate and stem certain abuse-able situations, as you can get kills at a much faster rate in wvw than the other two, but also sit on a treb for hours afk.

You can't increase drops because that would encourage kill trading, unless they have diminishing returns built in. You can't increase reward tracks because of afking participation, unless you adjust participation gains, which they probably won't.

I do think it would be nice to have more personal achievements to earn more gold, and not the regular go cap a tower do 3 dailies and get 2 gold. I mean like interrupt players 5000 times and get 5g (repeatable), heal for 50k and get 5g (repeatable), things that require you to be active in the game. Of course like anything else that is susceptible to botting, which is why numbers will have to very high and gains very low, which means zerging is more profitable.. this is why we can't have nice things in the end...

Xen, remind me, did you play Warhammer Online? I know we have a lot of Ex-War players. If so, or if not, they had kill quests and it paid well enough people would try and make sure they renewed after completing to get the next one. This really didn't really create a lot of kill trading or not enough that it was that noted but it did help and was incentives to even more fighting. So the forums might be over blowing the idea of kill farming. But either way good with adding other activities that would be less afking and done normally by playing as well to bring extra income to offset the cost of the mode. There have been other threads on here on the past on similar ideas and work arounds, but the more people say nay it's even less incentive for ANet to agree there is an issue and consider adjusting. Don't get me wrong, my account isn't poor but that's not because of WvW, its because of the trading I have done overtime, and I did that originally to pay for WvW activities and gear outs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Xen, remind me, did you play Warhammer Online? I know we have a lot of Ex-War players. If so, or if not, they had kill quests and it paid well enough people would try and make sure they renewed after completing to get the next one. This really didn't really create a lot of kill trading or not enough that it was that noted but it did help and was incentives to even more fighting. So the forums might be over blowing the idea of kill farming. But either way good with adding other activities that would be less afking and done normally by playing as well to bring extra income to offset the cost of the mode.

There have been other threads on here on the past on similar ideas and work arounds, but the more people say nay it's even less incentive for ANet to agree there is an issue and consider adjusting. Don't get me wrong, my account isn't poor but that's not because of WvW, its because of the trading I have done overtime, and I did that originally to pay for WvW activities and gear outs.

Yes and yes, it was like kill 25 enemy players or kill 50 of a certain class or race and you could get it from each of the 3 factions of your side. I don't remember them giving a lot of currency for them, like a couple silvers not gold, but then again their economy is different from gw2. Not sure if there was limitations to them either, other than having to go back to the npc to hand in.

I dunno overall I've spent 99% of my play time in wvw, I run two full accounts, I've gone out and did one world completion to make 2 legendaries, one I kept the other I sold to have a bank for rainy day purchases, I've gotten like 6 precursor drops in wvw, I've moved servers like 6-7 times by now over the years all funded by just selling my materials(like seriously does no one check their material bank?). I don't command so I don't have to spend anything on siege, even though I have tons of boxes of superior and regular siege unopened, I probably have like 1k skirmish boxes I haven't opened, plus a dead guild that has a ton of siege in the bank, I don't run super expensive food and oil because I don't need to unless I know I'm going to be in long fights, most of my characters have ascended, most of which I got from drops in wvw and ticket purchases or even laurels, I get my 2g from dailies like everyone else.

I've played a lot to earn all that, but I don't feel the need to earn 1k gold per month to buy the next new shiny on the shop. I dunno I feel like why should someone sit on a treb afk and earn the same as me roaming or zerging around the same time when both our participation are capped the same. Sure I get more pips and get more diamond repeats a week but it's not like it's much cause don't get extra tickets which is the important part, and I can understand the limitation why if someone again gets up to repeat levels while afk for most of the time. Like I said I'd be more open to more gold as long as we have to play to earn it, if they toned down the participation you got for repairing and siege hits (like next to 0) I'd be on board for more gold.

What I don't like with this thread overall is trying to skewer the numbers so much to make that point though, like let's not pretend we're completely starving for gold here and just be honest with the points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@XenesisII.1540 said:1000 of golds for infusions for the one and only game mode you need it for and absolutely required for higher levels, that you all say you can earn the most gold in.... right?

And you generate after that more gold then you spent in infusions. I can even craft another ascending armor for a specific build with all the infusions to get T4 ready and still be able to earn after some days more then I have spent. Same should apply to WvW. Is this logic hard to get for you or something?

Do you need infusions for wvw? no, not when exotics are still an acceptable replacement, and also not when it's infusions are also sold on the vendor for currency you already earn in the skirmish track.

Pathetic that you even mention exotic gear in such a discussion. Just shows how people treat WvW as second class game mode. You can do raid bosses in green gear so why should PvE players be rewarded for doing raids? See how ridiculous this sounds. Btw. If WvW infusions would boost my rewards in WvW to up to 20g/day then who cares if I have to spend some gold on it. They are not required in WvW but also do not effect your rewards in any way so don’t try to compare it that way. They have nothing in common to begin with. But by your logic guild catas, which are only in WvW needed, should also give me that advantage right? So if I buy/craft/what ever let’s say 1000 guild catas. Will this give me the ability to earn 20/g a day? Who can guess the answer.

P.S.: Fractals earns you 1100g in 8 weeks. WvW 166g in 8 weeks. Divided that by the hours played to achieve that and you end up with 10g/h vs 0,3g/h. That you try to justify this can’t be described in words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...