Bring back the holy trinity.

[lil muffin.1250]

@kharmin.7683 said:Needing a holy trinity for world bosses? Egad!

you laugh but if you think about it... lots of the content they build like bounties.they are litterally spam and dodging one shot mechanics.with the holy trinity people would have to group up and they can create more substance content that isnt boom you are dead cuz you couldnt see the aoe because everyones skills are being popped off all the time.

[lil muffin.1250]

@Aeolus.3615 said:GW2 has a holy trinity..

Pve: DPS / DPS / DPSSpvp: Gimmick / Gimmick / GimmickWvW: Condi bunker / Condi bunker / ministrel everything in a mono queue blob

Just play how u want xD

Joking asside, Gw2 does not have the mechanics for trinity gameplay nor the quoficients iteration to be changed to one, since build and gameplay just resumes to 2-5 certain gameplay builds (gimmicks for expectation of low effort VS win) tied on the game mode..

well I hope they learn their lesson if they ever make it to gw3..

[kharmin.7683]

@lil muffin.1250 said:well I hope they learn their lesson if they ever make it to gw3..Personally, I see no lesson to be learned here. I think it is pioneering to have an MMO without trinity. Seemingly every other one has it. I say, let GW2 and GW3 be unique! Not everyone wants or loves trinity based MMOs. No need to slam Arenanet for trying to stand out.@lil muffin.1250 said:you laugh but if you think about it... lots of the content they build like bounties.they are litterally spam and dodging one shot mechanics.with the holy trinity people would have to group up and they can create more substance content that isnt boom you are dead cuz you couldnt see the aoe because everyones skills are being popped off all the time.Even with trinity, you wouldn't see the boss because of the AOE spam. That's an entirely different problem and not one that, IMO, needs a complete rework of the game's intent to solve.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Then, we sit and wait for a healer/tank to join our group?The more the Devs add 'healers'/'tanks', the more we see that in the LFG and the longer it takes to complete (start) the content.

You forget that healer and tanks most often get the blame when group doesn't manage to complete content. There will be more fight between people or even people that can't enter group content as they now will be forced to document their DPS, HoT and tanks will have big problen with sustain as they also relay on CD for their skills (can't keep taunt or have enough self healing while healer have run too far to support DPS).

In ESO tank have health as their main source for both damage and sustain. Healing where to most part magic based, but became stamina (depending on changes to profession and skills).

Most boons are very short range meaning all healing and tanking boon need to change so group don't have to virtually stand on each other with danger of getting wiped from a large AoE or cleave.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Raids pretty much rely on the Trinity unlike the rest of the game. Yet people INSIST that Raids is PvE content despite it not feeling like GW2.

[Aeolus.3615]

@lil muffin.1250 said:

@"Aeolus.3615" said:GW2 has a holy trinity..

Pve: DPS / DPS / DPSSpvp: Gimmick / Gimmick / GimmickWvW: Condi bunker / Condi bunker / ministrel everything in a mono queue blob

Just play how u want xD

Joking asside, Gw2 does not have the mechanics for trinity gameplay nor the quoficients iteration to be changed to one, since build and gameplay just resumes to 2-5 certain gameplay builds (gimmicks for expectation of low effort VS win) tied on the game mode..

well I hope they learn their lesson if they ever make it to gw3..

gw1 was so decent :\ how skills worked (the interaction between skills boons, conditions, hexed, and the other type, boons were actually rare) this is how the game should kept its combat.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_typehttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enchantment_spellhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/ConditionFrom gw1 wiki: "Reapplied conditions will last the original time period, unless the reapplied duration is greater than the remaining amount of time."

IDK they had(have) an amazing system that even new games on the made have some sorte gw1 skilldesign logic, or at least some devs on recent game talk about it.

[Taril.8619]

@lil muffin.1250 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Needing a holy trinity for world bosses? Egad!

you laugh but if you think about it... lots of the content they build like bounties.they are litterally spam and dodging one shot mechanics.with the holy trinity people would have to group up and they can create more substance content that isnt boom you are dead cuz you couldnt see the aoe because everyones skills are being popped off all the time.

Or... They wouldn't change a thing.

A lot of modern MMO encounter design relies on the exact same principles as are found here.

"Tanks" dodge/block the one-shot mechanics that target them."DPS" run around dodging the one-shot mechanics that try to interrupt their DPS rotations."Healers" run around dodging the same one-shot mechanics that the DPS do, while throwing out heals for the unavoidable damage that bosses require to actually make healers have to do something in a decent party.

The epitome of this is FFXIV, where 99% of the fight, is everyone just avoiding the same one-shot mechanics, while trying to mash their DPS rotations as hard as possible. With that last 1% being Tanks using defensive cooldowns when the Tankbuster happens and Healers using a spell to fully heal the Tank after a Tankbuster or the party after a Raidbuster.

Arguably, GW2 could have made things more interesting by completely eschewing the notion of Tank/Healer/DPS divisions and made it so that people's survival was heavily reliant on their own abilities (I.e. Personal healing skills, dodging and positioning) with very few abilities that supported allies beyond boon applications. With more stat focus on how to deal your damage rather than choosing damage or defence or healing (With a very one dimensional end result depending on game mode)

[lil muffin.1250]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@lil muffin.1250 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:GW2 has a holy trinity..

Pve: DPS / DPS / DPSSpvp: Gimmick / Gimmick / GimmickWvW: Condi bunker / Condi bunker / ministrel everything in a mono queue blob

Just play how u want xD

Joking asside, Gw2 does not have the mechanics for trinity gameplay nor the quoficients iteration to be changed to one, since build and gameplay just resumes to 2-5 certain gameplay builds (gimmicks for expectation of low effort VS win) tied on the game mode..

well I hope they learn their lesson if they ever make it to gw3..

gw1 was so decent :\ how skills worked (the interaction between skills boons, conditions, hexed, and the other type, boons were actually rare) this is how the game should kept its combat.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_type

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enchantment_spell

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Condition

From gw1 wiki: "Reapplied conditions will last the original time period, unless the reapplied duration is greater than the remaining amount of time."

IDK they had(have) an amazing system that even new games on the made have some sorte gw1 skilldesign logic, or at least some devs on recent game talk about it.

i wish they kept the gw1 system.hexes were amazing.interupts were so much fun.going out and collecting skills.prot monks..... its so frustrating to me that they gave up on this.

[lil muffin.1250]

@Taril.8619 said:

@lil muffin.1250 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Needing a holy trinity for world bosses? Egad!

you laugh but if you think about it... lots of the content they build like bounties.they are litterally spam and dodging one shot mechanics.with the holy trinity people would have to group up and they can create more substance content that isnt boom you are dead cuz you couldnt see the aoe because everyones skills are being popped off all the time.

Or... They wouldn't change a thing.

A lot of modern MMO encounter design relies on the exact same principles as are found here.

"Tanks" dodge/block the one-shot mechanics that target them."DPS" run around dodging the one-shot mechanics that try to interrupt their DPS rotations."Healers" run around dodging the same one-shot mechanics that the DPS do, while throwing out heals for the unavoidable damage that bosses require to actually make healers have to do something in a decent party.

The epitome of this is FFXIV, where 99% of the fight, is everyone just avoiding the same one-shot mechanics, while trying to mash their DPS rotations as hard as possible. With that last 1% being Tanks using defensive cooldowns when the Tankbuster happens and Healers using a spell to fully heal the Tank after a Tankbuster or the party after a Raidbuster.

Arguably, GW2 could have made things more interesting by completely eschewing the notion of Tank/Healer/DPS divisions and made it so that people's survival was heavily reliant on their own abilities (I.e. Personal healing skills, dodging and positioning) with very few abilities that supported allies beyond boon applications. With more stat focus on how to deal your damage rather than choosing damage or defence or healing (With a very one dimensional end result depending on game mode)

haha so you want a solo game with people whojust happen to be around.got it.

[Taril.8619]

@lil muffin.1250 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@lil muffin.1250 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Needing a holy trinity for world bosses? Egad!

you laugh but if you think about it... lots of the content they build like bounties.they are litterally spam and dodging one shot mechanics.with the holy trinity people would have to group up and they can create more substance content that isnt boom you are dead cuz you couldnt see the aoe because everyones skills are being popped off all the time.

Or... They wouldn't change a thing.

A lot of modern MMO encounter design relies on the exact same principles as are found here.

"Tanks" dodge/block the one-shot mechanics that target them."DPS" run around dodging the one-shot mechanics that try to interrupt their DPS rotations."Healers" run around dodging the same one-shot mechanics that the DPS do, while throwing out heals for the unavoidable damage that bosses require to actually make healers have to do something in a decent party.

The epitome of this is FFXIV, where 99% of the fight, is everyone just avoiding the same one-shot mechanics, while trying to mash their DPS rotations as hard as possible. With that last 1% being Tanks using defensive cooldowns when the Tankbuster happens and Healers using a spell to fully heal the Tank after a Tankbuster or the party after a Raidbuster.

Arguably, GW2 could have made things more interesting by completely eschewing the notion of Tank/Healer/DPS divisions and made it so that people's survival was heavily reliant on their own abilities (I.e. Personal healing skills, dodging and positioning) with very few abilities that supported allies beyond boon applications. With more stat focus on how to deal your damage rather than choosing damage or defence or healing (With a very one dimensional end result depending on game mode)

haha so you want a solo game with people whojust happen to be around.got it.

I mean, that's largely what things end up playing out as.

Raids being you doing your own thing and hoping the other 9/19/24/39 people you're with do their own thing and don't mess up.

PvP is always "I keel you" with allies being around to help you KS.

There's very little in online games that promotes actual playing together (I always laugh when people say things about MMO's like "Oh but you have to co-ordinate with your TEEEM! For cooldowns!" when it usually devolves into everyone presses their 60/90/120s CD skills as they come available thus always syncing up with everyone else. With some games having it so you hold onto them until a specific boss phase where everyone just presses all their CD's and goes ham)

This is especially true when games also don't balance around people having voice comms, so things like actually having to sync skills gets removed because random PuG groups cannot realistically do things like that.

GW2 has the Combo Field and Finisher system, but it utterly fails to generate any meaningful teamplay due to mostly lackluster effects and the fact that you just spam all your skills like normal as other people spam their fields on targets so you automatically start getting your combo effects that are actually worthwhile (I.e. Put Fire Field on boss. Now everyone's getting Burning Projectiles for free)... Or things like Scrapper where someone just makes their own damn fields with blackjack and hookers to do their own combos in...

[Vision.7265]

Bring back build diversity.

[Astyrah.4015]

@"Taril.8619" said:There's very little in online games that promotes actual playing together (I always laugh when people say things about MMO's like "Oh but you have to co-ordinate with your TEEEM! For cooldowns!" when it usually devolves into everyone presses their 60/90/120s CD skills as they come available thus always syncing up with everyone else. With some games having it so you hold onto them until a specific boss phase where everyone just presses all their CD's and goes ham)

This is especially true when games also don't balance around people having voice comms, so things like actually having to sync skills gets removed because random PuG groups cannot realistically do things like that.

yeah for MMORPGs, mostly the teamwork is carrying your own weight and not dragging the others down. voice or no voice comms, you can do all content if you trained well for it.

for competitive games though like shooters and mobas, say CS:GO or LoL, on high end play, having comms and good teamwork is a day and night difference to having neither and just going by intuition (though doesn't mean it's impossible to win without comms or teamwork... just harder)

[kharmin.7683]

@lil muffin.1250 said:

i wish they kept the gw1 system.You're in luck! The GW1 servers are still running.

[Khisanth.2948]

@kharmin.7683 said:How can GW2 bring back the holy trinity when the game was practically based on the lack thereof? No. Please enjoy your trinity in the many other MMOs where it is already well in place.

it wouldn't be all that difficult but it would make the game much much easier ... unless that was what you were referring to

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@kharmin.7683 said:How can GW2 bring back the holy trinity when the game was practically based on the lack thereof? No. Please enjoy your trinity in the many other MMOs where it is already well in place.

This 100x

[Obtena.7952]

The assumption of the OP is wrong ... introducing an artificial form of team structure like holy trinity will not introduce strategy to gaming. If anything, it will lock you in more.

[otto.5684]

Bring it back from where?! GW never had a trinity system.

I dunno why a trinity thread pops up every month or two. One of GW main features is that it does not have a trinity system. Why did you play GW2 to being with if that is what you are looking for?

[Nephalem.8921]

@lil muffin.1250 said:the trinity has a lotof strategy for several reasons.tanking is about positioning and protecting.you have to make sure the boss doesnt cleave all your dps and healersthis has massive potential in gw2.healers have to keep people alive.. this requires strategy.and dps has to dodge mechanics and do their rotation well.

this seem simple but it also is tons easier to design complicated content to.world bosses at the moment are people passively applying boons.running around and rezzing people and we are all just trying to dps the boss down fast enough.

with a trinity you have tanks holding down bosses and key enemies.healers keeping those tanks alive.dps trying to stay alive while dps those key big enemies so we can go back and focus on the big boss.

Have you tried raids yet? This reads like you never even played content outside of open world. Healers already exist in wvsw and both, tanks and healers, exist in raids.Dhuum will cleave the entire group if the tank is not careful. healing skill is not enough for most of the bosses.Raids are the best pve content in the game but anet stopped developing them because the majority likes to watch netflix and leech loot instead of playing the game. Open world is also way more rewarding than raids on a g/h basis which is just completely stupid.

[crepuscular.9047]

holy trinity? pffffFirebrand = Ultima-Trinity

[Rukia.4802]

GW1 was far better with its trinity & unique aggro mechanics, both pve and pvp greatly benefiting from it. GW2 only adopted the latter and look at how they had to design raids, its incredibly obvious that trinity is a requirement for any type of strategic difficult content. And that is why it will most likely never be in the open world, its just a shame that they were so determined to be different for the sake of being different they sacrificed the limitless potential in the sequel.

At least GW2 can stand as a shining example of what not to do with the trinity, it is holy for a reason after all.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

Holy trinity? Tank, damage dealer, and healer?

I'd argue we already have a trinity, just not in the exact same way as every other MMO ever.

Damage dealer (dps/ burst), damage support (might, quickness, heals, may not even have to heal necessarily), and utility (toughness tanking, boon strip, CC specialists, extra buffs [alacrity/ banners], downed pullers, etc).

As a matter or fact, being able to do more than just one thing in a given role, I'd say you have even more functionality than the standard holy trinity, as many of the above can be mixed to a degree.

Just two cents.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

@kharmin.7683 said:Needing a holy trinity for world bosses? Egad!

GLF HB, Alac, BS, DPS, 150+ Ess, 200 LI, LNHB for Queensdale Heart quests.

NO NECROS

[AliamRationem.5172]

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:Holy trinity? Tank, damage dealer, and healer?

I'd argue we already have a trinity, just not in the exact same way as every other MMO ever.

Damage dealer (dps/ burst), damage support (might, quickness, heals, may not even have to heal necessarily), and utility (toughness tanking, boon strip, CC specialists, extra buffs [alacrity/ banners], downed pullers, etc).

As a matter or fact, being able to do more than just one thing in a given role, I'd say you have even more functionality than the standard holy trinity, as many of the above can be mixed to a degree.

Just two cents.

Where you see tank+/healer+, I see DPS-lite. In my opinion, specifically designing a game without healers and tanks and then quickly fashioning the most basic versions of these roles feels contrived. I understand that they did it because they couldn't design compelling raid encounters without including these elements. But the result is pretty much what I'd expect from a game trying to do something it was expressly designed not to do. I think trinity games do this type of content better.

[Juan.6124]

If you think a player survives ONLY by using the heal skill you have no idea how the game works. Characters have blocks, invuln, evades, dodges, condition application, condition cleanse, stun breaks, shroud, barrier. Even positioning itself is a way to avoid damage.

applying auras is currently passive.

Use the aura share trait in water and then apply auras on yourself directly from weapon skill like staff earth 3, dagger air 3, dagger water 4, fire focus 5.If you want to play aura support all you have to do is play tempest instead of weaver.

to solo things with your buddy

That's not how soloing works.

If you want a real trinity system with slow combat simply play WoW.

[DebraKadabra.5278]

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Needing a holy trinity for world bosses? Egad!

GLF HB, Alac, BS, DPS, 150+ Ess, 200 LI, LNHB for Queensdale Heart quests.

NO NECROS

You forgot 25K AP min.