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I want to raid but I hate meta


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Depends on how you define roles. The tank position already comes with the side requirement of providing additonal benefits to the group. The very idea behind the Chrono Tank was and continues to be their ability to tank well, and shit out boons while doing so. Thus the tank role pretty much includes giving boons and healing/some personal DPS as their second and possibly third tasks. Not doing so would be a huge waste.

There are a lot of options these days with all of the buffs and nerfs. People are able to get creative if they refuse or aren't able to play the META for whatever reasons. Just do not be the guy that intends to play a tank that does absolutely nothing but tank (and possibly heal themselves) because that would certainly be an far inferior build.

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@Magnedeus.4713 said:That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

Not really, like many others said here (and in others similar posts), if you can fullfil the role you choose to take, ppl will never look at your gear/build (in pug at least).

In others MMO, you are more limited in gears stats and builds per class so you can't really mess up (even if you want to).

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@Magnedeus.4713 said:That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

Let's assume SnowCrows defines the meta...I'd really like to see the %-number of groups playing the suggested team composition for Matthias.

Group1: Condi Weaver, Condi BS, Condi BS, Condi Banner BSGroup2: Condi Soulbeast, Power HoloGroup3: Condi Alacrity RenegadeGroup4: Condi Alacrity RenegadeGroup5: Condi MirageGroup6: Power Boon Daredevil

I bet you'll only see this in hardcore speedrun statics. In Pugs you'll not even see the Boon Daredevil all the time and imo this class is THE core of the Matthias meta composition.

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@Magnedeus.4713 said:That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

Other MMOs have classes hard-locked into a particular Role.FF14 for example has classes that are literally unable to queue for a position they aren't, a Bard cannot be a 'Tank' it has to be a 'DPS'.And the stats are normalized so that you can't get 'Tank' stats on Bard gear, it's nigh impossible to mess up stats or role.

GW2 at least allows you to attempt to build something that's off-meta, and as others have said you got to prove it works, and you have to prove to 9 others that you are worth to take along, it's a team effort.

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@Magnedeus.4713 said:That's one of my biggest gripes with this game. If your profession and build isn't meta then you don't get to raid

Other mmos: All classes can raid as long as you're well geared, have good dps/heals.

GW2: Can only raid if your class and build are part of the meta.

Any class can raid in gw2 as long as its well geared and gives decent dps or heals. Problem is gw2 has such a big variety of stats, and 90% of them are useless in PVE, so most peoples custom made builds will NOT have good dps or heals. Only hardcore 500LI+ speedclears demand full meta builds. Average pug will be happy to take any off meta so long as it does its job.If you do choose to run a custom build, you better be prepared to play well though, so the squad can see you are fulfilling your role. Raid community has lost all trust for play how you want builds due to so many 2k toughness , 3kdps players joining.

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Here's the experience I made with players who are not willing to adapt their builds:Theres a community-organized raiding event once a week where everybody is welcome.Of course you have newbies joining every now and then who simply have 0 idea how to gear up etc., which is perfectly fine. We are happy to explain it to them and see them coming back and improving over time.

But recently we had a heal firebrand on full minstrel gear joining on a regular basis. One thing you might notice now: a heal firebrand on minstrel gear? Minstrel = lots of toughness. Lots of toughness = tank on bosses like VG etc.He explicitly said he wants to play healer, not tank. But he also isnt willing to change his stats.So in the end he forced the tank to change his build in order to get more toughness than him.Every. single. week. this guy joins and forces other players to change their builds just so he doesnt have to.

Whats the conclusion of this?Running off-meta builds because you "dont want to change your stats every 2 weeks" often means that another player will have to change his stats.Lucky for you most raiders have legendary gear which makes it easier to swap stats. But the point still stands: If you dont want to adapt to the group, the group will have to adapt to you. Thats pretty selfish, isnt it?

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@Hyrai.8720 said:But recently we had a heal firebrand on full minstrel gear joining on a regular basis. One thing you might notice now: a heal firebrand on minstrel gear? Minstrel = lots of toughness. Lots of toughness = tank on bosses like VG etc.

Lucky he was at least on minstrel. Imagine it had been cleric gear? Then have the entire discussion of how boon duration is needed/recommended on healers and having to explain to someone that basically their entire gearing was useless... I've had that one before, as I'm sure many experienced raiders have had. :s

Still nice of others to accommodate and adjust in this case. That's not always as easily possible.

@Hyrai.8720 said:Of course you have newbies joining every now and then who simply have 0 idea how to gear up etc., which is perfectly fine. We are happy to explain it to them and see them coming back and improving over time.

Yeah, seeing others improve and enjoy the content is one of the reasons helping can be rewarding. Always nice to see new players become more proficient and the joy when they clear a boss for the first time for example. :+1:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Group content means sometimes compromising and doing something you don't necessarily want to do.

Like creating a second set of gear for one character to put in your build and equipment templates to swap into for raids should your current build not cut it.

Because while solo content is fine to be selfish as you only hold up your progress, in group content it is wrong to be selfish. You're not just holding up your own progress at that point. You're holding up the progress of 4-9 others depending on the content.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Skugga.5298 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Here is the deal:Most players who say they want to run non meta builds don't actually mean that.

What they mean is:I want to run my custom build, which I have no clue how good or bad it is, while not understanding class synergy, and which I have just thrown together because I like the stuff I use.

No, so far away from the truth, the reason why I don't like meta is because I feel like I am more than capable of building my own builds that I truly understand and know what they do.I hate to copy-paste something and then have to learn another playstyle. I can do it, have done it before I just don't enjoy it.Another reason why I am against meta is because I can't afford swapping stats every so often on my ascended gear, + runes, +sigils etc, I don't have any legendary gear.

So that was the whole reasoning behind this post , I want to be able to play what I have build instead of playing the "crafting" game and focus on making new pieces or changing pieces etc.

Don't worry about changing gear etc, you'll almost never have to change any sigils runes stats unless you play chrono basically.

Look, it's quite simple, if your build performs correctly, just a bit below the META ones, it's fine. If you're doing half the job of another player of the same skilllevel, it's not. That's about it.

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@"Skugga.5298" said:In GW2 I enjoy a bit of everything to be honest. I'd like to give raiding a try but I do hate the whole "meta" scene, I like to create my own builds and once I feel like I have something that really works very well for me I just want to play it.

Something that really works very well for you does not always work well for the group (and the encounter).

Just a small example (that had happened sometimes):Vale Guardian selects the player with the highest toughness as the tank. New player had much more than 1000 toughness but was not in the tank-role. New player had no other gear, so he removed some toughness gear and the tank switched gear to have the most toughness again. And then sometime during the fight, VG again selected new player as the tank, because new player used a skill that temporarily increased his toughness.

This is just a small example. If you do not know the VG fight (learning videos, guides, training) you do not know that only having 1000 toughness (if you are not the tank) is important.

But if you know your class, the fight and the team well, then chances are high that your own build is not very different to the meta build(s) in your results.

I don't like changing character, equipment and build all the time.

Just try a power DPS class with full berserker stats. You do not need ascended gear because exotics is enough to start with raiding. Exotic berserker gear is easily available.

I was wondering are you able to join raids if you don't follow the meta ? :astonished:

Why should strangers believe you, that you are unexperienced with raids, that you do not follow guides/meta, but you know what you are doing without wasting their time?

Find a friendly guild/group that gives you the time to learn and to experiment with your gear. But you should promise them, that you are willing to learn and that you change your gear and playstyle if your gear and playstyle does not work for the group.

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@"Skugga.5298" said:In GW2 I enjoy a bit of everything to be honest. I'd like to give raiding a try but I do hate the whole "meta" scene, I like to create my own builds and once I feel like I have something that really works very well for me I just want to play it.so you a welcome in 99% raids. No one worry what build and armor set you use. On thing ir only matter - "dps value".If dps low - you a not welcome, not matter you a "meta" or not.

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@lare.5129 said:

@"Skugga.5298" said:In GW2 I enjoy a bit of everything to be honest. I'd like to give raiding a try but I do hate the whole "meta" scene, I like to create my own builds and once I feel like I have something that really works very well for me I just want to play it.so you a welcome in 99% raids. No one worry what build and armor set you use. On thing ir only matter - "dps value".If dps low - you a not welcome, not matter you a "meta" or not.Change that to "No one worry what build and armor set you use
(as long as it has no thougness, because that will screw up tanking mechanics on certain bosses
)."

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@"Skugga.5298" said:Hi,

In GW2 I enjoy a bit of everything to be honest. I'd like to give raiding a try but I do hate the whole "meta" scene, I like to create my own builds and once I feel like I have something that really works very well for me I just want to play it. I don't like changing character, equipment and build all the time.I was wondering are you able to join raids if you don't follow the meta ? :astonished:

You're able if your build proves to be useful to the team. But if it performs like crap and offers nothing for the team and the rest of the team has to carry you then no.After all you play with 9 other people and you should respect their time and patience. It'd be best if you found a guild that allows offmeta builds.

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As much as I do not like meta as well but if I do meet a player new to raids in a pug group, Id rather he is able to understand meta and play it. how can i trust a stranger who say he knows his profession well but can not play a meta build for that profession? you can always slightly modify a little the build to suit your play style but generally meta is a build premade for certain role and requirements to get raid done typically the same manner for all and in general. So, basically if you are a solo player who doesn't have a premade raid group and are looking to pug your raid, then you need to learn meta build first. there is no other better option really.

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