So ANet will fix downstate next?

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Naxos.2503 said:Okay.

Fix one shot perma stealth thieves then. Otherwise this is pointless and is going to cause -everyone- to bail en masse because they'll be one shotted have zero chance of knowing what happened and where it came from. Or they'll be thieves. Until only perma stealth thieves remain. Now wouldn't that be interesting. Invisible wars.

Fixing perma stealth and adjusting downstate don't have to be mutually exclusive.

One shotted is a whole different conversation so I will go with your intent here, wouldn't play a factor either since the player being one-shotted would be alone. Getting killed in group, that is part of the point. You aren't out, your group will just get you back up and there was no lose except a few seconds. This same conversion scales up to small group versus warband or zerg. It's a numbers game as it stands right now. Bring more is the answer, that's not a good way either since it translates to the smaller side, just don't show up, beat them with boredom. Wait and once they have nothing to do they will go away and numbers are more balanced. So yes if it means that perma-stealth one-shot player gets to keep what they kill, at least they will be out there fighting and so will that havoc and that warband while the other side map zergs and just ktrains it around the maps. I do think downstate can be adjusted so it still has advantage to numbers, but less so.

[Naxos.2503]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:Okay.

Fix one shot perma stealth thieves then. Otherwise this is pointless and is going to cause -everyone- to bail en masse because they'll be one shotted have zero chance of knowing what happened and where it came from. Or they'll be thieves. Until only perma stealth thieves remain. Now wouldn't that be interesting. Invisible wars.

Fixing perma stealth and adjusting downstate don't have to be mutually exclusive.

One shotted is a whole different conversation so I will go with your intent here, wouldn't play a factor either since the player being one-shotted would be alone. Getting killed in group, that is part of the point. You aren't out, your group will just get you back up and there was no lose except a few seconds. This same conversion scales up to small group versus warband or zerg. It's a numbers game as it stands right now. Bring more is the answer, that's not a good way either since it translates to the smaller side, just don't show up, beat them with boredom. Wait and once they have nothing to do they will go away and numbers are more balanced. So yes if it means that perma-stealth one-shot player gets to keep what they kill, at least they will be out there fighting and so will that havoc and that warband while the other side map zergs and just ktrains it around the maps. I do think downstate can be adjusted so it still has advantage to numbers, but less so.

I concur. In my opinion, there is no issue to tweaking downstate, provided other parts of the game mode are taken into account while doing so. I was using thieves in that particular case, because the current meta perma stealth thief can actually re-stealth after killing someone, and actually take down a group alone. Which probably isn't the intent.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

Downstate does need to be looked it and adjusted, in its current state with how the game has "evolved" over the years it is not healthy for PvP/WvW. I go into much more depth as to what would be my personal suggestions to adjust downstate and rallying, but I by no means think they should be removed. Yet another thing I stated in my previous post is that I would prefer that they would remove downstate and rally and entirely rework the revive mechanics in the game, I also completely recognize that such an approach is completely unrealistic as an expectation or a suggestion. It isn't gonna happen.

However what could still happen is giving ANet the opportunity to adjust downstate and rallying so they become healthier for PvP/WvW. Like I said above, there is another post of mine in another thread where I go into more detail about it so I won't repeat it verbatim here. Once either side of the argument can acknowledge that both removal isn't the right approach and leaving it as it is also is not the right approach then an actual productive discussion can take place.

[Junkpile.7439]

Downed same player like 4 times in one fight. So annoying mechanic. :s

[TheGrimm.5624]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

I think people to tend to go there since its the extremes. But I think you are right, and if disliked by others, when broken out it seems that more people are somewhere in the middle view of it could use adjustment. Now it's also a very valid point that depending on your chosen play style players will be looking to get different results out of a given change and there will be some natural bias to those changes depending on your role or given play style.

For polls extremes might be easier to tally results but the devil might be in the details. Side note, I missed your other suggestion post and will need to take another look.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

I think people to tend to go there since its the extremes. But I think you are right, and if disliked by others, when broken out it seems that more people are somewhere in the middle view of it could use adjustment. Now it's also a very valid point that depending on your chosen play style players will be looking to get different results out of a given change and there will be some natural bias to those changes depending on your role or given play style.

For polls extremes might be easier to tally results but the devil might be in the details. Side note, I missed your other suggestion post and will need to take another look.

Initially I thought it was this thread I put it in, turns out it was another thread. There have been so many of these kinds of threads they just blend together at this point.

So here, I'll give a direct link to my post from the other thread.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1291987#Comment_1291987

[TheGrimm.5624]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

I think people to tend to go there since its the extremes. But I think you are right, and if disliked by others, when broken out it seems that more people are somewhere in the middle view of it could use adjustment. Now it's also a very valid point that depending on your chosen play style players will be looking to get different results out of a given change and there will be some natural bias to those changes depending on your role or given play style.

For polls extremes might be easier to tally results but the devil might be in the details. Side note, I missed your other suggestion post and will need to take another look.

Initially I thought it was this thread I put it in, turns out it was another thread. There have been so many of these kinds of threads they just blend together at this point.

So here, I'll give a direct link to my post from the other thread.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1291987#Comment_1291987

Thanks! Will give it a read.

[Stazee.6749]

People are way overcomplicating this. I'll say it again, just nerf downstate hp by 50% across all classes and make reviving 20% slower. Done, everyone's happy let's move on.

Taking it out completely would be bad for a number of reasons: (1) Anet won't be happy they can't sell more special finshers, (2)Players that bought special finishers will feel jipped, (3) It will feel more frustrating getting one shotted and being insta dead rather than having a chance at coming back, (4) It makes certain skills obsolete, (5) It would require a lot of rebalancing and may end up worse off in the long run. Plenty of more reasons but i don't want to detract from the overall point of my post by typing more.

I will say Apokriphos.7042 made an interesting suggestion of making it so that only one person can revive an ally at a time. Other than that people are making this way more complicated of a fix than it needs to be.

[EvilSardine.9635]

This 100% needs to be fixed. Cut the health down by 50%, make it so only one person can rez, or just remove it altogether.

The down state is a crutch that ONLY helps the team with more numbers. Why should a group of 3 people who are already at a numbers advantage be able to rez each other when I'm fighting them alone? It's impossible to stomp or cleave them down.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Stazee.6749" said:People are way overcomplicating this. I'll say it again, just nerf downstate hp by 50% across all classes and make reviving 20% slower. Done, everyone's happy let's move on.

And the day after there will be at least 3 threads with "remove downstate!" from all the happy people.

[TheGrimm.5624]

There are a lot of potential options in balancing the numbers game. But we have already seen in the no-downstate weeks that temp rules can be applied so make use of that and let's try a number of them. But again, announce it in advance since the general public won't know about it unless told in advance and then get feedback from outside the forums as well.