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Forced to grind levels, even on a paid account?


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@"ConorT.5396" said:So, I have not naturally levelled a character in over 7 years.yes, you do some mistake that not play gw2, but I don't see any critical problem

I started a play-through with my friend today, starting from scratch - both on Paid accounts & it appears we are forced to grind to the "recommended level" to continue the personal story?grind? there is no any grind in leveling, play, do hearts, events, or go wvw or spvp and get exp tome. You noot need stand on one place and crunch npc fer hours to get 0.2% of exp.

Is this the way is it suppose to be? It wasn't like this at launch.any, you can chose any , wvw, spvp, open world, or use booster.

Guild Wars, all the way back to Prophecies has never been about grinding repetitive quests for levels.yes, this is sad. I miss some sometimes long long few weeks grind to make one level, from my another old mmo game.

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ok, I read pages .. probably you not understand what it is "grind". Or not properly understand of value and required size to say that is is grind.It is some misunderstanding young age casual players what it is mmo, and is thay not compare to "gold standard".Some middle value of grind that you need kill npc all week, 8h per day, and get 1 level. Max level 78. On gw2 we not have grind.

And second mind - wvw and pvp can be started you without level. On wvw you will get some bonus ofc if get 80, but whit properly account you can start it asap.

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@Yggranya.5201 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:It's called the "New Player Experience" and it's a terrible experience for new players. GG ANet.

I had fun when i started. Exploring, doing hearts and events. Of couse, now that i have done them a hunderd times, it is pretty dull leveling a new character.What is bad about the "New Player Experience"?

For an actual new player it is fine. As you explore, you level up, and the story follows around with you - at the right level. It is only an issue for someone who has a new character, on an old account. But that should be no trouble, because most of us have tons of Tomes of Knowledge laying around, and you can skip any leveling you want.

There is no problem. B)

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@ConorT.5396 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, since it has not changed in 6+ years, and there has been very few, if any' laments about it, I don't see it changing from a post created by someone that hasn't played in 7 years and isn't that familiar with the game.

Still, best of luck.

Maybe it worked 6 years ago, when people were enjoying the generic MMORPG - but what I am focused on is making GW2 last another 8 years.

Not what worked yesterday.

And I am sorry that the thing that is going to make the game continue to grow is reverting back to a previous layout of allowing players freedom, but that is the case.

Loose your niche, loose your potential customers.

If you think this game is going to grow or not grow based on having to level in an MMO I don't know what to tell you. Experienced players bypass leveling with tomes anyway. New players have a level 80 boost they can use. They sell level 80 boosts in the gem store.

You may not like it, but it's not going to make the game grow or stop the game from growing. It's still better leveling than most MMOs I've played...almost all of them.

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@ConorT.5396 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:His 1st ever discussion and he put 70 comments in. I can't remember many mmo's that you didn't need to be a certain level to progress story. I do remember starting out in gw2 and getting wrecked in the like level 15 one because I was like level 9. That's def a quality exp and this is what he's missing. He doesn't want to grind at first he wants to enter story get wrecked then go oh let me grind a few levels now. Also somehow milking cows and cleaning graffiti is much worse then other mmos fetch / kill 10 mobs/items. This is every game so mmos are just not for you

What does my topic & comment count have to do with anything?

You can't remember any MMO's that had no level restrictions?

Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2 vanilla.

It means most likely you rolled in here on an alt account to make this discussion and after 72 comments outta what 115 means no one can change your mind. You had limits in GW2 because you eventually couldn't beat story or survive in the area you needed to get to because you were so low. I got to level 12 maybe in GW1. Any new player with you trying to rush them thru content is not going to have a good exp. Let them play the game. What's your guild btw?

Also, just another point here - is that there is a difference between rushing people through the game & people been forced to do repetitive, DATED events & heart quests. (Once again, in Queensdale - Milking a cow does not even have its own animation but the character uses the dance Emote). In 2020 is this the quality of content people are expected to be locked too in a new MMORPG they are going to spend their time in?

Please remember that core hearts & world events are not the GEM of Guild Wars too anymore, they are badly made, poor & dated. And this is what new members are tied too.

The maps only really get challenging after Lions Arch - Veteran MMORPG players do not want to be bored for 20+ hours game play before they get somewhere that actually pushes their ability.

They are new. It's not repetitive to them. It is to you and I bet you talk their ear off about it again ruining their exp. Just recruit a new player give him 4 15 slot bags and tell him if you get stuck at story or a hero point hmu and I will help. Let them be free to decide on their own not forced to play your way in a game that's repetitive to all of us hence why we use tomes of knowledge to skip everything

It becomes repetitive after they have interacted a 3rd time with an object to spawn a mob & kill it.

if 3 times=grind, then mmos arent for you. and at lower levels it even gives quest progression and loot.just wait for the later boss fights, you have to do the same stuff over and over, but WITHOUT any immediate rewards or progression

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, since it has not changed in 6+ years, and there has been very few, if any' laments about it, I don't see it changing from a post created by someone that hasn't played in 7 years and isn't that familiar with the game.

Still, best of luck.

Maybe it worked 6 years ago, when people were enjoying the generic MMORPG - but what I am focused on is making GW2 last another 8 years.

Not what worked yesterday.

And I am sorry that the thing that is going to make the game continue to grow is reverting back to a previous layout of allowing players freedom, but that is the case.

Loose your niche, loose your potential customers.

If you think this game is going to grow or not grow based on having to level in an MMO I don't know what to tell you. Experienced players bypass leveling with tomes anyway. New players have a level 80 boost they can use. They sell level 80 boosts in the gem store.

You may not like it, but it's not going to make the game grow or stop the game from growing. It's still better leveling than most MMOs I've played...almost all of them.

i would say it is the best of ANY mmo i have tried. if they didnt have that huge gap between OW and story, they would be goldenwow could be VERY clunky at times, CoX was just a harder game in general, FF was grinding de luxei will have fond memories of core tyria till the day i die. and maguma should be nuked from orbit. it is the only way to be sure...

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I think that calling the leveling a grind is just wrong. There can be a lot of grind in GW2, without a doubt, but leveling in Open World, doing hearts, events, getting some achievements inbetween, jumping puzzles, etc. It is not grindy at all, but is actually a really fun open world experience. Every single other MMO, you go to a quest giver, talk to him, accept the quest, kill 10 pigs, go back, talk to him, accept rewards, rinse and repeat. GW2 is so far from this, that I genuinely think they have one of the best leveling experiences due to this.Regarding the lvl requirement for personal story; I know it felt good when you challenged yourself and did a story quest 10+ levels above you, but I have no issues with the current system. Because right now, it creates a rhythm or dynamic for my leveling. I do the first story quest, then I start maxing out the zone, by the time I finish, I can do lvl 10 (even a bit earlier). After that I can go to another zone and max that out as well and so on and so on. Since I like 100%ing the maps I am currently leveling in, this dynamic (even if it is not 100% aligned with the lvl requirement) is not an issue for me.TLDR: I never felt that the leveling was grindy, and I genuinely enjoy it to this day.

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@TracksOne.2548 said:Doing all the events in the different areas and exploring was part of the fun. Im not sure why people have an issue with actually playing the game.

wait until you reach orr and the expansions. its almost a completely different game. if you really like the casual experience of core tyria, then you prolly wont like it therei loved the organic, low key feel of the lower levels, it was so natural...fighting normal enemies over outposts and forts...it felt REALthe later stuff is all about gods and doomsday scenarios, that gets boring VERY fast

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, since it has not changed in 6+ years, and there has been very few, if any' laments about it, I don't see it changing from a post created by someone that hasn't played in 7 years and isn't that familiar with the game.

Still, best of luck.

Maybe it worked 6 years ago, when people were enjoying the generic MMORPG - but what I am focused on is making GW2 last another 8 years.

Not what worked yesterday.

And I am sorry that the thing that is going to make the game continue to grow is reverting back to a previous layout of allowing players freedom, but that is the case.

Loose your niche, loose your potential customers.

If you think this game is going to grow or not grow based on having to level in an MMO I don't know what to tell you. Experienced players bypass leveling with tomes anyway. New players have a level 80 boost they can use. They sell level 80 boosts in the gem store.

You may not like it, but it's not going to make the game grow or stop the game from growing. It's still better leveling than most MMOs I've played...almost all of them.

i would say it is the best of ANY mmo i have tried. if they didnt have that huge gap between OW and story, they would be goldenwow could be VERY clunky at times, CoX was just a harder game in general, FF was grinding de luxei will have fond memories of core tyria till the day i die. and maguma should be nuked from orbit. it is the only way to be sure...

I think a lot of people forgot the number of complaints when the game came out about people who did what they do in every MMO...try to go star, to star, and that's all they do. So they ended up being too low a level for the next story, and complained about having to grind. It was almost the same complaint and we saw it often on the forums.

The problem is people think this game centers on instances, but it doesn't. It centers on the open world. Dynamic events are the heart and soul of this game. We do AB and Dragonstand frequently. Most people will never play their story as often as they've done AB. Even a guy like me, who's finished the personal story on almost 20 characters, and Season 3 on over 30, still have done meta events far more often.

The idea of going star to star for most people was stopping them from exploring the living breathing world, a thing Anet has been advertising and talking about from day one.

This game might be better for some people if they didn't have to play the dynamic events between personal story instances...but not all people and probably not most people. The stars were holding the game back, not setting it forward. It did nothing to retrain people to stop thinking in terms of just going to the next star.

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@Vayne.8563 said:Most people will never play their story as often as they've done AB.

true. i went through the story once on my main (personal story, s2, hot, s3, pof, s4 and ibs... didn't skip any cutscenes or anything...) but on my other 5 level 80 alts they're still on the level 20 Personal Story (did ps_level 10 on each of them just for the keys) lol

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@Mil.3562 said:You call that grinding? Wait till you try to get the mount Skyscale. It's kind of ridiculous to lock a mount under such intensive grinding thus discouraging many veterans from getting it. They could have made it much less 'grindy' like all previous mounts and many more players will make an effort to get it, and ANet will definitely sell more skins for the dragon. Win-win. I wonder who is their marketing head.

Now almost every thing is grind-to-get. Even LWS, these days playing through the story is not good enough. You have to grind for mastery points, grind for days or weeks in order to get a long list of achievements required to unlock the new stuffs from the story.

Grinding is content in GW2. Yes, it's in this state now. The last leg.

I haven't kept up with this (the bolded) at all, but is the head of the cash shop still that lady who once did the same thing for Nexon? I remember people having a good laugh about that back in the day.

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@ConorT.5396 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Except these are not "FACTS THAT YOU KNOW TO BE TRUE". They are anecdotes and opinions back up by very little - if any - genuine evidence. You do not have access to the facts. Anet does.

The NPE since 2014 has not damaged the game or the influx of new players (which as I have said previously has been considerable in the past) and has maintained a healthy population ever since despite its age and other - more questionable - design decisions.

The facts I know to be true are:
  1. Guild Wars 2 currently has a high number of new-player game abandonment. Perhaps not the highest in history - but still high.
  2. There is currently an INFLUX of new players.
  3. New players do not like the fact they are forced to do side quests & this is more obvious in the veteran MMORPG player community that have moved to GW2 for challenging content.
  4. Guild wars 2 is an old game & the starter area should be exceptionally polished ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS A RESTRICTION FOR NEW PLAYERS TO STAY THERE. It is not polished, it is dated.

Once again - if you are reading this I am not criticising Guild Wars 2 as a whole, I love end-game content & I love the community in the game.

I an simply pointing out the fact that I believe that the restriction for gating the personal story has taken away of the freedom that Guild Wars has offered since Guild Wars prophecies .

And from my point of view, it is having a negative impact on new-player retention during this period of influx.

even in wows good days, only about 10% of all players reached max level. 80% quit before they reach lvl 20.and that was the BIGGEST MMO IN ITS PRIME, other games are bound to have worse numberslevelling is the most important part of mmos, and if your hardcore buddies dont have the stomach to doa couple of days of work, theyre not as hardcore as they pretend to be

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, since it has not changed in 6+ years, and there has been very few, if any' laments about it, I don't see it changing from a post created by someone that hasn't played in 7 years and isn't that familiar with the game.

Still, best of luck.

Maybe it worked 6 years ago, when people were enjoying the generic MMORPG - but what I am focused on is making GW2 last another 8 years.

Not what worked yesterday.

And I am sorry that the thing that is going to make the game continue to grow is reverting back to a previous layout of allowing players freedom, but that is the case.

Loose your niche, loose your potential customers.

If you think this game is going to grow or not grow based on having to level in an MMO I don't know what to tell you. Experienced players bypass leveling with tomes anyway. New players have a level 80 boost they can use. They sell level 80 boosts in the gem store.

You may not like it, but it's not going to make the game grow or stop the game from growing. It's still better leveling than most MMOs I've played...almost all of them.

i would say it is the best of ANY mmo i have tried. if they didnt have that huge gap between OW and story, they would be goldenwow could be VERY clunky at times, CoX was just a harder game in general, FF was grinding de luxei will have fond memories of core tyria till the day i die. and maguma should be nuked from orbit. it is the only way to be sure...

I think a lot of people forgot the number of complaints when the game came out about people who did what they do in every MMO...try to go star, to star, and that's all they do. So they ended up being too low a level for the next story, and complained about having to grind. It was almost the same complaint and we saw it often on the forums.

The problem is people think this game centers on instances, but it doesn't. It centers on the open world. Dynamic events are the heart and soul of this game. We do AB and Dragonstand frequently. Most people will never play their story as often as they've done AB. Even a guy like me, who's finished the personal story on almost 20 characters, and Season 3 on over 30, still have done meta events far more often.

The idea of going star to star for most people was stopping them from exploring the living breathing world, a thing Anet has been advertising and talking about from day one.

This game might be better for some people if they didn't have to play the dynamic events between personal story instances...but not all people and probably not most people. The stars were holding the game back, not setting it forward. It did nothing to retrain people to stop thinking in terms of just going to the next star.

nope, i dont like dynamic events at all, its either a zerg fest or waiting for other players. it ruins immersion too, seeing the same big boss pop upthe same place on schedule. there is a reason, why other mmos keep it in instances

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@Taril.8619 said:

It was done because a lot of new players where doing the personal story and then getting upset when they get trucked by enemies much higher level than them because the game never prevented them from going into their level 20 personal story quests at level 5...

Non-sense.

Players will be MUCH more upset by been restricted in a cage than failing because they are not high enough level. When the "RECOMMENDED LEVEL" was highlighted so clearly.

Except, literally the case is the opposite of what you state.

People complained a lot back on the old system. Which is why it was changed. Very few people complain in the new system.

@ConorT.5396 said:People were motivated to get better & work on their level because they WANTED TO. Not because they were FORCED TOO.

Does this not make anyone else absolutely furious?

Not really.

Since you're not FORCED to do anything in the game.

You don't have to "Grind" in order to get levels. You don't HAVE to even play the personal story if you don't want to.

The only thing that's existing now that wasn't back then, is a minimum level requirement on personal story quests. Which is not out of place, given the minimum level requirements to access skills (2, 4, 7, 10, 11, 15, 19, 31), minimum level requirements to access dungeons (30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 76, 78, 80), minimum level requirements to access equipment rarities (14, 30, 62) which have all existed since the start of the game.

It was done because a lot of new players where doing the personal story and then getting upset when they get trucked by enemies much higher level than them because the game never prevented them from going into their level 20 personal story quests at level 5...

Non-sense.

Players will be MUCH more upset by been restricted in a cage than failing because they are not high enough level. When the "RECOMMENDED LEVEL" was highlighted so clearly.

Except, literally the case is the opposite of what you state.

People complained a lot back on the old system. Which is why it was changed. Very few people complain in the new system.

@ConorT.5396 said:People were motivated to get better & work on their level because they WANTED TO. Not because they were FORCED TOO.

Does this not make anyone else absolutely furious?

Not really.

Since you're not FORCED to do anything in the game.

You don't have to "Grind" in order to get levels. You don't HAVE to even play the personal story if you don't want to.

The only thing that's existing now that wasn't back then, is a minimum level requirement on personal story quests. Which is not out of place, given the minimum level requirements to access skills (2, 4, 7, 10, 11, 15, 19, 31), minimum level requirements to access dungeons (30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 76, 78, 80), minimum level requirements to access equipment rarities (14, 30, 62) which have all existed since the start of the game.

It is also possible to use level 80 booster (which where one get from purchasing HoT and later PoF). Now you can buy that in Gem Store (rather expensive as it cost 2000 Gems). You can use Tomes of Knowledge on character which is less then level 80 and there is other way to get directly to level 80 (need still get Hero Challenge for training skills etc if those level 80 don't provide enough HC/HP). There is also Birthday booster which OP should have some with an 8 year old account.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Birthday_Booster (look under Acquisition section to see more)

Use the highest https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experience_Scroll_(level_60) before https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tome_of_Knowledge. Then you (OP) only needto level up 20 level until you start on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mastery (this is account wide and all character will increase XP for Mastery).

Honestly I don't see that problem @ConorT.5396 are talking about as you can play how you want and directly get up level 80 at minimum one character and start on Mastery progression. The only restriction from Story (LW or LS) is that you need to start or progress in story line to get access to new maps. You don't even need to complete story, if you only want to get access and can change story without loosing too much in progression. Living story /living world are meant to be repeated for achievement (and you get more Mastery Points from doing this).

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@TracksOne.2548 said:Doing all the events in the different areas and exploring was part of the fun. Im not sure why people have an issue with actually playing the game.

wait until you reach orr and the expansions. its almost a completely different game. if you really like the casual experience of core tyria, then you prolly wont like it therei loved the organic, low key feel of the lower levels, it was so natural...fighting normal enemies over outposts and forts...it felt REALthe later stuff is all about gods and doomsday scenarios, that gets boring VERY fast

Yes! So much this. I loved the early part of the game. Hot was horrid, but PoF has some fun areas, if you skip the story. I was glad to see more hearts, but I do not care for repeatable hearts...

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@Tukaram.8256 said:

@TracksOne.2548 said:Doing all the events in the different areas and exploring was part of the fun. Im not sure why people have an issue with actually playing the game.

wait until you reach orr and the expansions. its almost a completely different game. if you really like the casual experience of core tyria, then you prolly wont like it therei loved the organic, low key feel of the lower levels, it was so natural...fighting normal enemies over outposts and forts...it felt REALthe later stuff is all about gods and doomsday scenarios, that gets boring VERY fast

Yes! So much this. I loved the early part of the game. Hot was horrid, but PoF has some fun areas, if you skip the story. I was glad to see more hearts, but I do not care for repeatable hearts...

repeatable hearts are still better, than all those metas IMO. agree on the rest , hot is pretty much unplayable for me tooloved the guitar playing frog dude though, that was the only good part i found there

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I don't think this game has a lot of grind. The system now that wants you to level towards the required level ... is okay. But I still liked the old system better cause you directly knew where you had to go. (Now you can use the Wiki to know in advance as well.)

In the old system you could level directly in the maps where the story took you next. And smaller gaps in between each mission step. (Cause every mission gave you some exp as well which helped leveling.)

Now it is more like "get to level 10, do story ... then you are 12 or so maybe ... then get to 20" and so on ...Old system I think the steps had different levels in between. A bit of leveling between each step.

Instead a bit more of leveling between each set of steps (each 10 levels).

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@TracksOne.2548 said:Doing all the events in the different areas and exploring was part of the fun. Im not sure why people have an issue with actually playing the game.

wait until you reach orr and the expansions. its almost a completely different game. if you really like the casual experience of core tyria, then you prolly wont like it therei loved the organic, low key feel of the lower levels, it was so natural...fighting normal enemies over outposts and forts...it felt REALthe later stuff is all about gods and doomsday scenarios, that gets boring VERY fast

Yes! So much this. I loved the early part of the game. Hot was horrid, but PoF has some fun areas, if you skip the story. I was glad to see more hearts, but I do not care for repeatable hearts...

repeatable hearts are still better, than all those metas IMOWish they were made optional after completing them the first time. Hate having to do them again just to deal with the vendor.
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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, since it has not changed in 6+ years, and there has been very few, if any' laments about it, I don't see it changing from a post created by someone that hasn't played in 7 years and isn't that familiar with the game.

Still, best of luck.

Maybe it worked 6 years ago, when people were enjoying the generic MMORPG - but what I am focused on is making GW2 last another 8 years.

Not what worked yesterday.

And I am sorry that the thing that is going to make the game continue to grow is reverting back to a previous layout of allowing players freedom, but that is the case.

Loose your niche, loose your potential customers.

If you think this game is going to grow or not grow based on having to level in an MMO I don't know what to tell you. Experienced players bypass leveling with tomes anyway. New players have a level 80 boost they can use. They sell level 80 boosts in the gem store.

You may not like it, but it's not going to make the game grow or stop the game from growing. It's still better leveling than most MMOs I've played...almost all of them.

i would say it is the best of ANY mmo i have tried. if they didnt have that huge gap between OW and story, they would be goldenwow could be VERY clunky at times, CoX was just a harder game in general, FF was grinding de luxei will have fond memories of core tyria till the day i die. and maguma should be nuked from orbit. it is the only way to be sure...

I think a lot of people forgot the number of complaints when the game came out about people who did what they do in every MMO...try to go star, to star, and that's all they do. So they ended up being too low a level for the next story, and complained about having to grind. It was almost the same complaint and we saw it often on the forums.

The problem is people think this game centers on instances, but it doesn't. It centers on the open world. Dynamic events are the heart and soul of this game. We do AB and Dragonstand frequently. Most people will never play their story as often as they've done AB. Even a guy like me, who's finished the personal story on almost 20 characters, and Season 3 on over 30, still have done meta events far more often.

The idea of going star to star for most people was stopping them from exploring the living breathing world, a thing Anet has been advertising and talking about from day one.

This game might be better for some people if they didn't have to play the dynamic events between personal story instances...but not all people and probably not most people. The stars were holding the game back, not setting it forward. It did nothing to retrain people to stop thinking in terms of just going to the next star.

nope, i dont like dynamic events at all, its either a zerg fest or waiting for other players. it ruins immersion too, seeing the same big boss pop upthe same place on schedule. there is a reason, why other mmos keep it in instances

See, I can't agree with this at all. Most events can be done by 3 people. 90% of them plus. You make two friends you can you do almost anything. I can do 90% of HoT with 2 other people. Then it's not a zerg fest and I'm not waiting for anyone. I play a lot of Season 3 and Season 4 and I often pop a tag, call something out in map chat and start an event. A surprising number of times people show up while I'm doing it and we succeed. I'm not waiting.

Bounties are a bit different, you might have to wait for those, but those do break my immersion and I don't do them.

In my guild we run together in the open world all the time...two people, three...five. And you know, that's probably the way Anet saw the game being played... at least in the open world. At any rate, I'd probably end up waiting longer for a dungeon or for a decent raid squad.

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