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Do you think Weakness should affect conditions too?


Vancho.8750

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@Vancho.8750 said:What if weakness reduced the duration of half of the applied conditions by % maybe 50 maybe lower.

should cleansing heal back all the damage you took recently?should resistance make you 100% immune to power damage?Find out on the next episode of forum in a nutshell.BTW power builds are starting to dominate over condi builds again, yet you people keep thinking up elaborate ways to nerf condi every time.If condi builds become a problem you take resist or rev rune and you are fine, or slot more cleanse. If power builds like rev/thief overperfor then there is no counterplay to that lul

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@"Virdo.1540" said:they just need to remove some "damage-reduction" traits and add "condi-dmg-reduction" traits

or runes...

what a terrible idea. conditions builds exist to whittle people down, slow them, or otherwise "weaken" them. see chill, immob, cripple, weakness, blind, etc. they affect your combat effectiveness.

condition builds generally have lower dps than power builds, and power builds are necessary because they do the bulk of the actual killing in a fight in the form of spike dmg.

in a team fight there is so much condi cleanse, condi only serves as a way to get people to use cooldowns, or impair people who have no cooldowns left.

power builds can kill someone through their cooldowns, as long as they dont have any block/invuln/evades left. see; thief, rev, power core guard, holo. especially holo atm.

without dmg reduction traits, power builds, which are already meta, would just get much more prevalent and we'd go back to getting one-shot in every fight.

they already took out 90% of the toughness in pvp, and you want to remove damage reduction as well? right after a power damage nerf?

soulbeasts can still do 24k damage with rapidfire+elite, but yes. lets increase our damage taken yet again..

take rune of resistance, condi cleanse, and shush.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:What if weakness reduced the duration of half of the applied conditions by % maybe 50 maybe lower.

should cleansing heal back all the damage you took recently?should resistance make you 100% immune to power damage?Find out on the next episode of forum in a nutshell.BTW power builds are starting to dominate over condi builds again, yet you people keep thinking up elaborate ways to nerf condi every time.If condi builds become a problem you take resist or rev rune and you are fine, or slot more cleanse. If power builds like rev/thief overperfor then there is no counterplay to that lul

LoL Agree 100%!

Yes. The answer to complaints of a "condi bunker meta" (where the most OP build everyone can find to complain about runs berserker amulet for some strange reason...) is to reduce condition damage via weakness. As long as they can't kill you and you still can't kill them, we've solved the bunker problem! Wait...what?

On an unrelated and completely random note, I was thinking it might be nice if we had a forum mascot. We can call him "Forum Man!" He'll run around in a cape with his underwear on the outside, proposing the worst solutions to every problem!

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@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:"Completely build around countering me or kitten" - every condi player here

Imagine taking one of the biggest combat mechanics into consideration while making a build, just think about that. Condi op btw.

Also, what is a condi player? Not everyone plays 1 build lul.

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Weakness makes 50% of attacks do 50% less damage, in essence its a 25% debuff to power damage. I agree that it should apply to conditions. But I think a duration decrease is not enough, just make it do a flat % less damage. 25% brings it into line with power builds. -% condition stats are pretty easy to get already, if you let it stack much more, there will be builds essentially immune to conditions.

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@Caine.8204 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:they just need to remove some "damage-reduction" traits and add "condi-dmg-reduction" traits

or runes...

what a terrible idea. conditions builds exist to whittle people down, slow them, or otherwise "weaken" them. see chill, immob, cripple, weakness, blind, etc. they affect your combat effectiveness.

condition builds generally have lower dps than power builds, and power builds are necessary because they do the bulk of the actual killing in a fight in the form of spike dmg.

in a team fight there is so much condi cleanse, condi only serves as a way to get people to use cooldowns, or impair people who have no cooldowns left.

power builds can kill someone through their cooldowns, as long as they dont have any block/invuln/evades left. see; thief, rev, power core guard, holo. especially holo atm.

without dmg reduction traits, power builds, which are already meta, would just get much more prevalent and we'd go back to getting one-shot in every fight.

they already took out 90% of the toughness in pvp, and you want to remove damage reduction as well? right after a power damage nerf?

soulbeasts can still do 24k damage with rapidfire+elite, but yes. lets increase our damage taken yet again..

take rune of resistance, condi cleanse, and shush.

i just said SOME. and as long as there are condi spikes that are far far beyond possible power spikes, its not really how it should be.

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@"Virdo.1540" said:i just said SOME. and as long as there are condi spikes that are far far beyond possible power spikes, its not really how it should be.

condi spike being better than power spike is not a thing. 1 condi cleanse and all that damage turns to 0. what amazing spike.

the thing with condis is that the POTENTIAL is very high, but compared to power, the ACTUAL DPS is very low. it starts being very good towards the end of the fight when people run out of cooldowns. that "condi spike" you talk about, is actually them landing 10+ skills in succession on you when you no longer have condi cleanse, which is how condi builds are played.

wait for condis to stack, then cleanse. don't cleanse the second you get 1 bleed and 1 poison. wait for them to waste more of their skills, and THEN you cleanse.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:"Completely build around countering me or kitten" - every condi player here

But people do this for power builds and don't bat an eyelid.

the difference being that you cant ever build around being good against power damage, because 90% of the toughness was removed from SPvP. your only hope is to kill them faster than they kill you. condi is counterable whereas power is not.

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@Caine.8204 said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:"Completely build around countering me or kitten" - every condi player here

But people do this for power builds and don't bat an eyelid.

the difference being that you cant ever build around being good against power damage, because 90% of the toughness was removed from SPvP. your only hope is to kill them faster than they kill you. condi is counterable whereas power is not.

Outside of the mitigation that applied to both damage types, despite what people will tell you, there is more to building around power damage than wearing an amulet that has toughness on it.

Power has been so predominant, and at times completely dominant over conditions, for so long people just don't consider what they are doing is building against it more so just building their characters not to die. It's why you often see the complaints of when condi has a handful of builds that conditions are lowering build diversity because people have to spec out of what they are used to into something else.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:Outside of the mitigation that applied to both damage types, despite what people will tell you, there is more to building around power damage than wearing an amulet that has toughness on it.

Power has been so predominant, and at times completely dominant over conditions, for so long people just don't consider what they are doing is building against it more so just building their characters not to die. It's why you often see the complaints of when condi has a handful of builds that conditions are lowering build diversity because people have to spec out of what they are used to into something else.

conditions are half of the game mode. in PvE you don't have to spec into condi removal, in pvp you do. it actually increases build diversity. if there wasnt condi in the game, everyone would be running full zerker all the time with damage or stun utilities. doesn't sound very diverse to me.

conditions are not what kills diversity in this game. terrible balance is what kills diversity. if they nuked all the condi builds in the game, you'd still have the same power meta builds, because conditions aren't what make them strong. them being strong is what makes them strong

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this reminds me off pre feb patch meta where people still complained about condi builds.I ran meta cmes, you know. Access to weakness and perma protection. You could actually survive a hit or two.Then I tried shatter build ( something similar to what is meta now ).With 20k hp, no toughness, no protection and no weakness application, I quickly stopped playing it.After dying to warrior doding on me ( 5,8k dmg ) and using gs3 ( 13,6k dmg ) I was already dead.This was the reason meta was what it was. And all power builds did the same, from 10k+ backstabs that did 15k+ dmg before character rendered to quickness rev that killed you under 1s.

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@Caine.8204 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Outside of the mitigation that applied to both damage types, despite what people will tell you, there is more to building around power damage than wearing an amulet that has toughness on it.

Power has been so predominant, and at times completely dominant over conditions, for so long people just don't consider what they are doing is building against it more so just building their characters not to die. It's why you often see the complaints of when condi has a handful of builds that conditions are lowering build diversity because people have to spec out of what they are used to into something else.

conditions are half of the game mode. in PvE you don't have to spec into condi removal, in pvp you do. it actually increases build diversity. if there wasnt condi in the game, everyone would be running full zerker all the time with damage or stun utilities. doesn't sound very diverse to me.

conditions are not what kills diversity in this game. terrible balance is what kills diversity. if they nuked all the condi builds in the game, you'd still have the same power meta builds, because conditions aren't what make them strong. them being strong is what makes them strong

Coool and I agree but this wasn't my point.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:What if weakness reduced the duration of half of the applied conditions by % maybe 50 maybe lower.

should cleansing heal back all the damage you took recently?should resistance make you 100% immune to power damage?Find out on the next episode of forum in a nutshell.BTW power builds are starting to dominate over condi builds again, yet you people keep thinking up elaborate ways to nerf condi every time.If condi builds become a problem you take resist or rev rune and you are fine, or slot more cleanse. If power builds like rev/thief overperfor then there is no counterplay to that lulIdk man most of my games consist of bunker condi scourge, core codi necro, bunker condi rev, thief(mostly is power but when they see so much condi cover they go condi too), a support tempest or holo(only cause some of it skills are running still on pve balance), and there you sit wondering where you can add more condition cleanses and way to move the fucking bunkers that plop aoe on the node on cd.There isn't single power build that counters condi builds, the only counter build that throws conditions back at the condi classes with effect is also condi class.

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@Vancho.8750 said:There isn't single power build that counters condi builds, the only counter build that throws conditions back at the condi classes with effect is also condi class.

very wrong. warrior has historically countered necro since.. well... forever. not that its very meta, but it does. thief can blind spam the F*** out of a necro, and win. revenant can teleport in from nowhere and burst someone to dead within a few seconds. holo is very strong, and does very well against condition builds as well. and power necro can beat condi necro as well, because they are weak to high amounts of power damage, not conditions. necros are historically strong against other condi builds, and now are countered by condi rev.... well not anymore maybe, since their resist uptime just got halved. but they will still be weak to power builds, since they have very little in the way of stun breaks. a good stun chain in a team fight and a necro is a goner.

there are plenty of power builds that counter conditions.

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I would agree to Weakness getting the same effect on conditions providing all damaging conditions got a slight duration buff as a result.It would be too strong with current condi setup.

High damage low duration condis like Burn would get hit much harder than low damage long durations like bleeding.This would result in some pretty heavy hits to classes like Guardian due to their reliance on Burns and Less to Necromancer due to their lack of access to it, however it would make traits etc that grant small access to condis like Burn borderline useless due to the pitiful duration access.. Dhuumfire being one example.So we'd need more base duration increases to counter that.

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@Caine.8204 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:There isn't single power build that counters condi builds, the only counter build that throws conditions back at the condi classes with effect is also condi class.

very wrong. warrior has historically countered necro since.. well... forever. not that its very meta, but it does. thief can blind spam the F*** out of a necro, and win. revenant can teleport in from nowhere and burst someone to dead within a few seconds. holo is very strong, and does very well against condition builds as well. and power necro can beat condi necro as well, because they are weak to high amounts of power damage, not conditions. necros are historically strong against other condi builds, and now are countered by condi rev.... well not anymore maybe, since their resist uptime just got halved. but they will still be weak to power builds, since they have very little in the way of stun breaks. a good stun chain in a team fight and a necro is a goner.

there are plenty of power builds that counter conditions.

If u as a necro loses 1x1 against thief, u are that bad.

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